im having a whinge

Essence Snow

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

Quote:
Originally Posted by odins daughter View Post
I completed all chapters and every minor quest with 3 chars, then Zaishen came into the scene, requiring that I redo all the main quests over and over again, to attain master of the north we have to redo the dungeons (not including VQ) over and over again.
2 things: 1) I was not aware that the Zaishen Quests/Bounties were required play. 2) For LMotN one only needs to do each dungeon 2 times, once in nm and once in hm. I actually think one can skip one and skill have enough points.

odins daughter

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essence Snow View Post
2 things: 1) I was not aware that the Zaishen Quests/Bounties were required play. 2) For LMotN one only needs to do each dungeon 2 times, once in nm and once in hm. I actually think one can skip one and skill have enough points.
The Zaishen quest repetition was for Z keys when I was chasing the Zaishen title to which ive given up on and the EOTN titles didnt included all the failures from rage quiters/leechers/bad pugs etc.
Also like ive said before i was playing with three chars so do your sums,its a lot of repeating.

Arduin

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

Yeah, you chose to play with 3 characters, of course it'll be a lot of repeating.

Though for me it made a lot of difference if I did a dungeon with my Ranger, Monk or Necro. Sure it's the same dungeon, but approached much differently.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neith View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems people are saying make the drops better and people will play....wth are they getting this idea? If they make the drops "better" the speedclears will still continue and there will be more of them....that won't stop the SC it will make them worse because now they can get better loot, better items, equals more in game gold which means prices are driven either to the ground or sky rocket. How is making drops in the game better when we all know the speedclears will still continue? Get rid of the speedclears then add better drops, if you want better drops.
1. Psychological factor.

2. They can always do something about speed clears AFTER they re-balance the drops.

3. Make the better drop actually come out of MONSTERS instead of chests, and then there's no incentives to skip groups simply for speed. They can adjust the monsters so that they're unfarmable if they wish.

4. Even if they do nothing, having Speed Clears spread across various regions of the game is far better than having 99% of the population either doing UW/FoW/Selected dungeons, or solo farming somewhere.

5. Guild/Friends have more of an incentives to actually help.

reaper with no name

reaper with no name

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2009

FaZ

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnChosen View Post
1. Psychological factor.

2. They can always do something about speed clears AFTER they re-balance the drops.

3. Make the better drop actually come out of MONSTERS instead of chests, and then there's no incentives to skip groups simply for speed. They can adjust the monsters so that they're unfarmable if they wish.

4. Even if they do nothing, having Speed Clears spread across various regions of the game is far better than having 99% of the population either doing UW/FoW/Selected dungeons, or solo farming somewhere.

5. Guild/Friends have more of an incentives to actually help.
Why are the drops worthless? Because the prices went down.

Why did the prices go down? Because SCs farmed the hell out of them.

What made these SCs possible? Broken builds like 600 and SF.

If you increase the drops instead of fixing SCs, the drops will simply continue to be overfarmed, and the prices of those drops will decrease even more until you're right back where you started.

The drops are balanced. The economy is not. This is why 600 and SF destroyed the economy. They made it impossible to make any money without power-trading, running, or farming your brains out. Before builds like that, it was possible to make a good amount of money simply by selling what you got during the completion of a high-end area, because it was actually worth something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
snip
Now this is an interesting viewpoint.

I'm going to counter it with another real-world example.

Joe's Pizza Shop has been on the same corner for generations. Pizza Hut moves in next door. Joe's Pizza Shop is a better business (ie, more skilled player). However, Pizza Hut is simply too powerful. Even though it doesn't get as much business, it's ability to operate at a loss (because it has an insanely overpowered build) allows it to outlast Joe's Pizza Shop, and it closes. Pizza Hut now gets all the business.

This is what builds like SF and 600 did to the game. Much like how big businesses have unfair advantages over smaller business that by rights should be better than they are (mainly due to lack of enforcement of anti-trust laws), SF and 600 crowd out other options by virtue of being ungodly powerful.

Of course, this isn't the real world, it's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Having entire professions that aren't even useful is not fun. Being forced to farm 24/7, run stuff for people, or powertrade to make any money whatsoever is not fun. Having ridiculously huge gaps in wealth between casual players and rich players is not fun.

SF and 600 were builds that were so powerful they were almost impossible to challenge. And attempts to do so often backfired (see skeletons of dhuum). They trivialized the game's most difficult content and had a negative effect on the game as a whole. Something had to be done, for the good of the game.

Yelling @ Cats

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by odins daughter View Post
Hm in the dungeons is now impossible, no more runners
Definitely

Before SF, it was impossible to even finish the game in NM.

I'm quite shocked that the first players to get SF managed to make it far enough in the game to cap it, and it is obvious that the only way anyone made it that far afterwards was from a previous owner of SF. Tough times indeed.

Neith

Neith

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

Texas

One in Guild Wars

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by odins daughter View Post
The Zaishen quest repetition was for Z keys when I was chasing the Zaishen title to which ive given up on and the EOTN titles didnt included all the failures from rage quiters/leechers/bad pugs etc.
Also like ive said before i was playing with three chars so do your sums,its a lot of repeating.
Again Odin,
YOU chose to work on those three characters. As far as LMotN...dungeons 2 times only per character (NM & HM). Vanquishes 1 time only per character. Missions 2 times only per character (HM & NM). Mapping 1 time for each character which you can get as you vanquish and you don't have to vanquish EVERY area either like you do for the vanquisher title. That is not that bad if you really stop to think about it.

As far as Zaishen title. There's more then one way to get that title. Yes Zaishen quests, missions and bounty may be the quickest way but you speak of diversity. Do zaishen challenges, JQ, AB, FA, and anything else that allows balthazar faction to accumulate and get your z-keys that way. I would love it if Anet would bring back the predictions in order to get z-keys but you don't see me making a QQ thread about how they took that away from me. Buy your keys for heavens sake if you want it that easy. Or stop working for titles on those other 2 characters. Trust me you won't be reported to child protective services for NOT getting those titles on those other two characters. Play those characters because you want to do something a little bit different, not because you think you are "Neglecting" them. You make it sound like Anet is putting a gun to your head saying you will grind out titles. You are choosing to do so. If Anet so chooses to rework skills to get rid of or slow down speedclears so be it. I'm all for it.

You speak of diversity....because there were runners and PUGS. that in many cases took out the diversity because PUGS were nowhere to be found in many cases because people were too busy looking for runs so your diversity theory went out the window there.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

When speedclears were atleast made tougher; I got more pugs to play with. I saw it as a good thing, but they should have nerfed those skills harder.

DigitalFear

DigitalFear

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2009

My mother's basement.

Me/

Nonono I want to keep running dungeon don't touch shadow form QQQQQQ

doomfodder

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

farm

R/

... as long as you have PLENTY of the following

TEAM DP REMOVERS
CONS
PATIENCE

Admittly the Co-Op nature of the PVE is SO MUCH MORE FUN with humans working together than just solo microing your heros (and NOT being able to micro your henchies) when being REPEATEADY party wiped by Fendi or Duncan or summit mobs in Vloxen, or etc... & then using your stack of team DP remover to RUN all the way back & to be slaughtered over and over again.

But sure, it can be done. I've done it several times cause I'm not fortunate enough to find a team of Humans... ces't la vie! Now if only there were "ONE SINGLE" HM dungeon PUG forming town SOMEWHERE in TYRIA, then at least PUGS would more hope of formin...

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper with no name View Post
Why are the drops worthless? Because the prices went down.

Why did the prices go down? Because SCs farmed the hell out of them.

What made these SCs possible? Broken builds like 600 and SF.

If you increase the drops instead of fixing SCs, the drops will simply continue to be overfarmed, and the prices of those drops will decrease even more until you're right back where you started.

The drops are balanced. The economy is not. This is why 600 and SF destroyed the economy. They made it impossible to make any money without power-trading, running, or farming your brains out. Before builds like that, it was possible to make a good amount of money simply by selling what you got during the completion of a high-end area, because it was actually worth something.
Then keep adding drops and make a NEW economy. You know, like what EVERY online RPG does except for GW. Even if it means just reskined "dark platinum weapons" or "silver phoenix blade" its fine....new stuff = valuable, old stuff is not. This is what GW has to do ever since they decided to add the ridiculous inscription system that made the value of everything based on skin only. It just made easy to get skin = worthless, but hard to get get skins are ridiculous to get...everything in between got eliminated. You know perfect golden long swords actually did worth something back then, inscriptions killed off more of the so called "economy" than 600/SF ever did.

Either way I want LOTS OF STUFF even if they're worthless, because its an online RPG and I like picking up stuff. Psychological Factor. Having 200 troll tusk spew out from a chest would give more excitement over two gems.

doomfodder

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

farm

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper with no name View Post
Having ridiculously huge gaps in wealth between casual players and rich players is not fun.
I would agree with that to a point... since having FUN is the perogative of the individual.

However, In Game "Wealth" is NOT something for which the casual gamer is Entitled! In general, people that play the game ALOT as opposed to CASUALLY in order to accumulate massive amounts of In Game "Wealth", (in other words EARNED - farmin, powertrading, providing services/runs, market visionaries, etc.), achieve FUN through those "means & items" that they've accumlated. Casual gamers CAN'T achieve fun that way because they simply don't play enough!

Personnaly I don't envy the UBER rich in the game, eventually there's nothing left to spend their $ on... I mean how many stacks of ecto can U actually fit into your 10 storage panes & 9 mule accounts? 300 stacks? 500 stacks? then what?

Pandora's box

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomfodder View Post
... Admittly the Co-Op nature of the PVE is SO MUCH MORE FUN with humans working together than just solo microing your heros ...
Ah, umm, no. Depends on playing style I suppose. I play this game very much like MtG; Figuring out skill combo's for my heroes and trying them out is an essential part of the fun. (which makes me feel very uneasy btw about GW2 - without heroes and a limited skillset). And the simple truth is that the hero/hench AI in many cases reacts much more efficiently than humans ever can. Though not always I admit (e.g. Assassin's promise is often used just before an opponent dies without calculating the casting time - so too late: opponent already died when the casting is completed)

I find it a good idea to increase droprates in general, not only improving endlevel chests. It would encourage people to keep playing after a nerf. Someone explained my earlier suggestions as 'longer stay in dungeons should automatically improve loot' - that is not correct. What I meant was that if the result of balancing is that it takes much longer to find good loot, than the loot should improve equally. It's ok to me if UW takes an hour instead of 20 minutes - as long as the reward is 3x as good as well... (and I mean the endlevelchest, not the ecto's dropping).

DigitalFear

DigitalFear

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2009

My mother's basement.

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by doomfodder View Post
then what?
Armbrace stacks

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnChosen View Post
2. They can always do something about speed clears AFTER they re-balance the drops.
Not really. Then SC'ers would just get the first chance to stock up on the new cool items, and after the nerf they'd be able to sell them for massive profit since the supply would be drastically reduced.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyy High View Post
Not really. Then SC'ers would just get the first chance to stock up on the new cool items, and after the nerf they'd be able to sell them for massive profit since the supply would be drastically reduced.
Then do it at the same time.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyy High View Post
Not really. Then SC'ers would just get the first chance to stock up on the new cool items, and after the nerf they'd be able to sell them for massive profit since the supply would be drastically reduced.
Their wealth will either there or they will simply start doing things the normal way. You can't say because they'll have an advantage it should be kept; it will balance itself out if they're totally obliterated and farming becomes impossible.

Neith

Neith

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

Texas

One in Guild Wars

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
Their wealth will either there or they will simply start doing things the normal way. You can't say because they'll have an advantage it should be kept; it will balance itself out if they're totally obliterated and farming becomes impossible.
Not if speedclears are nerfed obilerated after they put in better drops. The SC's will stock up on those items because they can do it quicker then a "normal" group can. so the post that you are quoting is correct.

odins daughter

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neith View Post
Again Odin,
YOU chose to work on those three characters. As far as LMotN...dungeons 2 times only per character (NM & HM). Vanquishes 1 time only per character. Missions 2 times only per character (HM & NM). Mapping 1 time for each character which you can get as you vanquish and you don't have to vanquish EVERY area either like you do for the vanquisher title. That is not that bad if you really stop to think about it.

As far as Zaishen title. There's more then one way to get that title. Yes Zaishen quests, missions and bounty may be the quickest way but you speak of diversity. Do zaishen challenges, JQ, AB, FA, and anything else that allows balthazar faction to accumulate and get your z-keys that way. I would love it if Anet would bring back the predictions in order to get z-keys but you don't see me making a QQ thread about how they took that away from me. Buy your keys for heavens sake if you want it that easy. Or stop working for titles on those other 2 characters. Trust me you won't be reported to child protective services for NOT getting those titles on those other two characters. Play those characters because you want to do something a little bit different, not because you think you are "Neglecting" them. You make it sound like Anet is putting a gun to your head saying you will grind out titles. You are choosing to do so. If Anet so chooses to rework skills to get rid of or slow down speedclears so be it. I'm all for it.

You speak of diversity....because there were runners and PUGS. that in many cases took out the diversity because PUGS were nowhere to be found in many cases because people were too busy looking for runs so your diversity theory went out the window there.
Neith .i do and have done many of the points you state here, before the 600/sf were about, during and after, because now i have no choice because of the decimation of sin sf.
The idea of Anet putting a gun to my head is, actually a fair similie,because thats exactly what Anet have done anyway,they dangle the carrot in your face to say that our accomplishments can be carried over to GW2, SO BLOODY WELL GET GRINDING!

suggesting that I should quit playing with my other chars is to be honest a dumb statement( no malice intended) and to be so bold as to suggest SF/600 killed of the Pugs is another one.
I use to run Gloom and City in DOA only, mainly when the ZB came to town and there was never a shortage of PUGS trying to accomplish these despite the runners which suggests to me the balance between ppl wanting to be run and not, was 50/50.

Lets be honest...GW is dying on its feet, more people quit playing than what are coming in and I dont still want to be playing GW when GW2 is released, I want to be ready to load GW2 and start playing from day one, while I was using my sin i could see the end of my grinding in the near future but now its seems a lifetime away, this is what im bitter about.

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

Quote:
you say the Droknar runs ruined the game?why?
It's very simple to explain the reason WHY. The players that ran through the content and the runners that ran them through it ruin the sequence of "UPGRADING" in the game thus killing TRADE from YAKS BEND to Droknars because they BYPASSED the ARMOR and WEAPONS upgrade areas like Henge of Denravi, Lions Arch, Yaks Bend and some of those before and after them.

Players who ran the content never bought these UPGRADES thus destroying part of the economy because of it and those that had been farming and storing up these resources for SALE to get these MID-LEVEL UPGRADES LOST all that TRADE and that would have related to millions of credits of revenue.

Players who ran the content never bought or upgraded to MID LEVEL content they went straight for the HIGH END GEAR, WEAPONS and most especially SKILLS. You had level 1-10's running ELITE skills in ASCALON PVP ARENA's. You had players who could SOLO whole GROUPS in the YAK's BEND ARENA because they ran the content and got the high end ARMORS +80/20's and ELITE SKILLS and then came back from level 11-15 easily kicking everyones butt who WERE PLAYING THE CORRECT WAY.

If you played DIABO 2 or NEVERWINTER NIGHTS or just about ANY OTHER RPG game you know you DON'T GET TO RUN THE CONTENT to the END CONTENT and get all the good stuff the FIRST DAY. Not unless of course you play online in CHEAT/EXPLOIT mode and just piggy back with someone ONLINE to increase your levels without doing anything. This is NOT RPG playing this is NOT intended to be done. But, some little whiney tards were too lazy to do it themselves. Whinning about I have to work, I have to goto School I have to blah blah blah whine whine whine and I want EVERYTHING EVERYONE ELSE HAS NOW! hahah

So I say CONTINUE TO STOP ALLOWING PLAYERS TO RUN THE CONTENT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ANET I LOVE IT. ) Make these lazy players earn it or quit so we can have a world where everything is fair an equal by correctly playing the world an adventure and not exploiting the game mechanics of it.

Quote:
Before SF, it was impossible to even finish the game in NM.
Maybe for YOU because YOU suk. I finished the game without a run or without playing SF. I love how some sorry players say the game is impossible to finish because they don't won't to take the TIME to finish it as it was intended. Plus have such shallow one track minds they can't figure out builds to defeat each area that becomes hard. Poor wittle babies they couldn't beat it the first couple of times through so IT's IMPOSSIBLE. LMAO

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath View Post
It's very simple to explain the reason WHY. The players that ran through the content and the runners that ran them through it ruin the sequence of "UPGRADING" in the game thus killing TRADE from YAKS BEND to Droknars because they BYPASSED the ARMOR and WEAPONS upgrade areas like Henge of Denravi, Lions Arch, Yaks Bend and some of those before and after them.

Players who ran the content never bought these UPGRADES thus destroying part of the economy because of it and those that had been farming and storing up these resources for SALE to get these MID-LEVEL UPGRADES LOST all that TRADE and that would have related to millions of credits of revenue.

Players who ran the content never bought or upgraded to MID LEVEL content they went straight for the HIGH END GEAR, WEAPONS and most especially SKILLS. You had level 1-10's running ELITE skills in ASCALON PVP ARENA's. You had players who could SOLO whole GROUPS in the YAK's BEND ARENA because they ran the content and got the high end ARMORS +80/20's and ELITE SKILLS and then came back from level 11-15 easily kicking everyones butt who WERE PLAYING THE CORRECT WAY.

If you played DIABO 2 or NEVERWINTER NIGHTS or just about ANY OTHER RPG game you know you DON'T GET TO RUN THE CONTENT to the END CONTENT and get all the good stuff the FIRST DAY. Not unless of course you play online in CHEAT/EXPLOIT mode and just piggy back with someone ONLINE to increase your levels without doing anything. This is NOT RPG playing this is NOT intended to be done. But, some little whiney tards were too lazy to do it themselves. Whinning about I have to work, I have to goto School I have to blah blah blah whine whine whine and I want EVERYTHING EVERYONE ELSE HAS NOW! hahah

So I say CONTINUE TO STOP ALLOWING PLAYERS TO RUN THE CONTENT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ANET I LOVE IT. ) Make these lazy players earn it or quit so we can have a world where everything is fair an equal by correctly playing the world an adventure and not exploiting the game mechanics of it.

Maybe for YOU because YOU suk. I finished the game without a run or without playing SF. I love how some sorry players say the game is impossible to finish because they don't won't to take the TIME to finish it as it was intended. Plus have such shallow one track minds they can't figure out builds to defeat each area that becomes hard. Poor wittle babies they couldn't beat it the first couple of times through so IT's IMPOSSIBLE. LMAO
You need some anger management....its a game. Its funny when you compare GW to Diablo 2 and Neverwinter Nights, in those game I also get to "one hit KO" monsters right from the starts, and I don't need to find groups or learn any sort of "skill" to speak of...bad comparison. As for trade between yak's bend and drok...ARE YOU SERIOUS?! You also can't run in factions thanks to gate lock....where are the "trade"?

Also, I can get max armor pretty much near the start in factions, BY GAME DESIGN! So apparently I'm ruining the economy by starting a character in factions, getting max armor in kaineng, then going to prophecies and "kicking everyone's butt" (as if anyone care that I can get through those areas with crap drop anyways)

In Diablo 2 I can also transfer an ungodly amount of potions and charms to another char and make the game far easier than it "should be", in other RPG there's such a thing as leeching, where I pay someone to share EXP with me to level up. I can also complete those RPG without touching 50% of the areas at all....in almost every other D2 style RPG I can name only a handful of "optimal" areas I would play in.

Just because in those games the grind is 1000x doesn't mean people aren't skipping contents. If anything in GW people skips stuff the LEAST, and it only seems "exploitive" because Anet made the game so linear and the drop/effort ratio is so bad everywhere. If they put someone that's worth a damn between Yak's bend and Droknar then people won't skip the areas....you know like D2, where good stuff drop EVERYWHERE.

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

A ^ typical example of what I'm talking about. The personality of the leech, exploiter, griefer no doubt etc. etc. that we have to deal with in these RPG games. They don't know how to role play they don't know how to PLAY at all. All they know how to do is bot, exploit and cheat their way through the game and more than likely through life itself.

At least Factions MADE you PLAY through the CONTENT nobody certainly didn't RUN through it like Prophecies or Nightfall. Even Nightfall put on the brakes for some of it when it started out you had to have certain levels in Sunspear before you could move on. ) I was happy with that and the FACTIONS LOCKS as well. )

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath View Post
A ^ typical example of what I'm talking about. The personality of the leech, exploiter, griefer no doubt etc. etc. that we have to deal with in these RPG games. They don't know how to role play they don't know how to PLAY at all. All they know how to do is bot, exploit and cheat their way through the game and more than likely through life itself.

At least Factions MADE you PLAY through the CONTENT nobody certainly didn't RUN through it like Prophecies or Nightfall. Even Nightfall put on the brakes for some of it when it started out you had to have certain levels in Sunspear before you could move on. ) I was happy with that and the FACTIONS LOCKS as well. )
I was making an example. Pretty much every MMORPG/ORPG in history had content skipping, despite your constant QQ trying to turn a GAME into WORK + COMPETITION. In fact, a lot of them are designed to encourage "cheats" and "exploits" (leeching / item transfer) specifically to encourage more community interactions. Korean MMO are prime examples, I don't think any real veteran actually grind their second/third chars through the game "normally", everyone I know in those games leech their lower levels.

By the way, there is a unnerfable way for me to be ran through areas....its called Guildie + 6 heroes. If I'm desperate enough, I assure you I can find some random guy, get him to run me through dungeons with 6 heroes, and pay him 60k. And he could probably do it without doing any real skillful work other than moving his heroes around. Time to nerf and remove heroes I think /sarcasm.

End

End

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

Rubbing Potassium on water fountains.

LF guild that teaches MTSC (did it long ago before gw2 came out and I quit...but I barely remember)

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by odins daughter View Post
Neith .i do and have done many of the points you state here, before the 600/sf were about, during and after, because now i have no choice because of the decimation of sin sf.
The idea of Anet putting a gun to my head is, actually a fair similie,because thats exactly what Anet have done anyway,they dangle the carrot in your face to say that our accomplishments can be carried over to GW2, SO BLOODY WELL GET GRINDING!
Yet you don't complain about the government threatening to kidnap you if you don't pay taxes even if you don't support where the money is going? Don't say your holding a gun to your head as they aren't...especially with account-wide HoM you aren't required to do everything on every char...you chose to do that. You don't chose to pay taxes yet I see no QQ threads about that here on guru...




Quote:
suggesting that I should quit playing with my other chars is to be honest a dumb statement( no malice intended) and to be so bold as to suggest SF/600 killed of the Pugs is another one.
I assume this goes with the point below but I'll separate it for clarification.

Quote:
I use to run Gloom and City in DOA only, mainly when the ZB came to town and there was never a shortage of PUGS trying to accomplish these despite the runners which suggests to me the balance between ppl wanting to be run and not, was 50/50.
You could easily turn this around to say that the zquest got people excited about doing something and encouraged pugs that normally wouldn't have been formed...to say that zquests were the shining beacon of light in the dark land ruled by SF/600...Sooo...it's a really bad point...but thanks for helping prove that something needed to be done to encourage pugs when they could just get a run...

truthfully I'd love to see this come about by finally hitting SF with the same bat that hit Smiters Boon...and THEN (after they are sure it's dead this time) introducing some new drops *cough*been awhile since a design-a-weapon contest*cough* to make areas worth doing...

Quote:
Lets be honest...GW is dying on its feet, more people quit playing than what are coming in and I dont still want to be playing GW when GW2 is released, I want to be ready to load GW2 and start playing from day one, while I was using my sin i could see the end of my grinding in the near future but now its seems a lifetime away, this is what im bitter about.
QQ moar? Some people got their GWAMM before SF existed...if they can do it...so I'm sure you can do it without it... I almost have my GWAMM without touching SF or getting a run for a dungeon...Soo....why are you incapable? You choose to play more then 1 char? well theres an account-wide view for the hall...You wanna max the EOTN title on all your chars? Well thats your choice...

The HoM was never intended to be easy to max (note how destroyer weapons were originally considered high end). Originally you had to have 5 elite armors on 1 char to fill up that monument... Titles?
It was meant to reward those who worked hard in GW1 in GW2...it's been dumbed down enough already...we don't need to make it any easier...

Dragos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2009

Dirge in Elysium

A/

So far, I'm 5 titles away from gwamm on my main, but I've played with it for 2k hours in the last year. I was in my own guild back then, with only my girlfriend joining me every now and then. I used the perma sin for Duncan HM, because I couldn't do it H/H for a whole weekend, and also tried 2 dungeons in HM with my gf for fun. Did most of the vq by now H/H, all the missions except Eternal Grove were also H/Hed in HM too... and it was fun. I also enjoyed spending 4 hours in the Veil with my gf, trying weird H/H combos... and it's not the only char I'm playing with. I also have a LS war that only punched Fronis' face twice, and soon a LS ele (both made from playing the game). I'm broke 90% of the time but I couldn't care less (well, except when the Boardwalk is open).
I used to run people here and there during the SF era... for 100g - cause, again it was fun.
Even though the nerf took the opportunity of abusing raptors during special events from me, I must agree with it. My monk arrived at the Gate of Anguish a couple of days before the nerf, so I didn't get the chance to try the 600/smiter too much either, but that's ok - doing the foundry with a couple of friends was way more fun. And, I must say, Neith and her friends/guildies are very nice people to venture in the elite areas with!
Bottom line is, if you don't enjoy playing the game anymore, there's no point in having others get the titles on your other two chars... Waiting in Doomlore for the moment you'll be beamed 250 years later seems more appropriate...

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

Quote:
By the way, there is a unnerfable way for me to be ran through areas....its called Guildie + 6 heroes. If I'm desperate enough, I assure you I can find some random guy, get him to run me through dungeons with 6 heroes, and pay him 60k. And he could probably do it without doing any real skillful work other than moving his heroes around.
Not in Factions you won't. ) Try running through the Eternal Grove Mission in Factions lmao there's no way you can run it you HAVE TO FIGHT and you HAVE TO WIN THAT FIGHT to get through it and that's just one of many in Factions. Let's see your socalled heroes and random person RUN the keep Togo alive in the first mission of the game? hrmmmm don't think so hahaah. So nope not even a guildie can RUN through the content for you in FACTIONS you HAVE TO GO THROUGH EVERY GATE and COMPLETE the MISSIONS as designed to get to the next one. Plus FIGHTING with HEROES is NOT RUNNING so you FAIL with that philosophy vs RUNNING content. No PURE RUNNER can RUN through Factions without fighting and PLAYING the CONTENT. ) Too many missions require killing something or many things before you can get through the gates. And nope you won't find some random person to run you through much of the content anymore since they nerfed SF and 600 smite. )

Dragos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2009

Dirge in Elysium

A/

'sides, Guildie/radom person + 6 heroes requires your presence near them, or else there will be guildie/random person + 3 heroes. But then, again, why would you need someone running the missions for you since most of them are H/H-able (just H/H-ed Gate of Madness in HM, kickin' Shiro's rear in under 1 minute, with the help of Koss and all the spirits I could find... I died when fighting the Lich alone, though, while the H/H's were recapping the shrines ^.^)
Anyways, this is a game... and so, its purpose was to be played... Would you buy a movie and ask someone else to watch it and then come to tell you what happened there? (You wouldn't buy it at all, if you'd only watch it once - renting is more appropriate...) Would you go to all the parties you're invited, but only socialize, dance and have fun there once, after which only check in your agenda whose party you went to (just to sit on a couch and take a nap)? ^.^

Quote:
Originally Posted by odins daughter View Post
Lets be honest...GW is dying on its feet, more people quit playing than what are coming in and I dont still want to be playing GW when GW2 is released, I want to be ready to load GW2 and start playing from day one, while I was using my sin i could see the end of my grinding in the near future but now its seems a lifetime away, this is what im bitter about.
There are 2 separate thingies here. First, I wouldn't say GW is dying as long as we still have regular updates and the content (be that little as it is) added... and people who like playing it still play it. Second, you can load GW2 from day one and start playing it! I have friends that didn't want to buy GW1 but said that they'll jump in as soon as the second installment hits the shelves. I'm sure they'll be able to do that even if they didn't grind their way in...

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath View Post
Not in Factions you won't. ) Try running through the Eternal Grove Mission in Factions lmao there's no way you can run it you HAVE TO FIGHT and you HAVE TO WIN THAT FIGHT to get through it and that's just one of many in Factions. Let's see your socalled heroes and random person RUN the keep Togo alive in the first mission of the game? hrmmmm don't think so hahaah. So nope not even a guildie can RUN through the content for you in FACTIONS you HAVE TO GO THROUGH EVERY GATE and COMPLETE the MISSIONS as designed to get to the next one. Plus FIGHTING with HEROES is NOT RUNNING so you FAIL with that philosophy vs RUNNING content. No PURE RUNNER can RUN through Factions without fighting and PLAYING the CONTENT. ) Too many missions require killing something or many things before you can get through the gates. And nope you won't find some random person to run you through much of the content anymore since they nerfed SF and 600 smite. )
The funny thing is that in NF Anet responded to the massive complaint and REMOVED the gate lock. Apparently the majority of players on GW do NOT think the way you do. Freedom of exploration is apparently a good thing, and people want it even in the presence of "evil" runners.

Ohh btw...SF and 600/Smite is still usable to run through a lot of dungeons, so haha to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragos View Post
'sides, Guildie/radom person + 6 heroes requires your presence near them, or else there will be guildie/random person + 3 heroes. But then, again, why would you need someone running the missions for you since most of them are H/H-able (just H/H-ed Gate of Madness in HM, kickin' Shiro's rear in under 1 minute, with the help of Koss and all the spirits I could find... I died when fighting the Lich alone, though, while the H/H's were recapping the shrines ^.^)
Anyways, this is a game... and so, its purpose was to be played... Would you buy a movie and ask someone else to watch it and then come to tell you what happened there? (You wouldn't buy it at all, if you'd only watch it once - renting is more appropriate...) Would you go to all the parties you're invited, but only socialize, dance and have fun there once, after which only check in your agenda whose party you went to (just to sit on a couch and take a nap)? ^.^
1 person + 3 heroes + 3 henchies. And yes I've seen people actually run people like that (and yes some people are not good enough even with heroes). For me, H/h is BORING, I didn't buy an online RPG to play through 99% of the areas as a single player. So what I did after using H/h with my first character was to get a run through dungeons first, then go back during ZQ day when there's LOTS OF PEOPLE and redo the dungeon "normally". Somehow according to someone in this thread what I'm doing is "ruining" the game even though I interacted with far more people than someone who just use H/h for everything.

Deakon

Deakon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

Arkansas

Just The Four Of Us [TRIO]

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath View Post
Plus FIGHTING with HEROES is NOT RUNNING so you FAIL with that philosophy vs RUNNING content.
It is if you're running and the heroes (as well as others on your team) are fighting. You don't have to run in a straight line. You can run around in circles hoping that someone heals you until the fight is over. In fact, you could do absolutely nothing but "run" into the first group and die then let your party drag you thru to the end of the game. If a low-level character in Prophecies has heroes then there's a bigger problem that needs to be addressed.

Point is... even without "runners" a new character can easily make it to the end of the game (and elite areas) without doing a thing short of joining a party. You know, as well as I, that people with 2 or more accounts regularly create characters on one account then drag them thru the game on another.

The only thing nerfing runs accomplished was removing a good sized portion of the economy... in-game services for in-game payment. Could you imagine what would happen in the real world if half of it's population stopped trading goods for services because it was illegal?

I better stop before someone calls for GW personal property taxes.

Laraja

Laraja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

Somewhere over the rainbow

Descendents of Honor

Rt/

I didn't read all the responses, but enough that I actually logged in so I can reply. So I'm lazy like that, lol.

Okay, firstly, I'm a shitty player and if someone like me can breeze through HM with a SoS rit and Discord heros... well... anyone can do it. In fact, I vanquish solo on my rit and it's not because I'm good, it's because it's *easy*.

Second, if me, the shitty player can do Hm easily (and that includes most dungeons, it's nice to have another player with heros for a few of the more difficult dungeons but 1 other player is enough), what does this say about your whining? Not to be rude, but it says that you're not trying. That you've learned to rely on gimmick builds and runners. If you just *tried* and didn't give up so easily and read some sections on heros builds and used some money to pimp their armor, you'd probably be successful. I mean, since I consider myself to be the pinnacle of retardedness, I just can't imagine someone being more retarded.

Hmmmm....

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

Quote:
Ohh btw...SF and 600/Smite is still usable to run through a lot of dungeons, so haha to you.
But not ALL of them anymore so HAHA to you. ) FACTIONS still rules when it comes to NOT running through the content. Enjoy your gate keys REQUIRED. hahahahahah

Countess Marie

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

Theatre Debauchery

N/R

GW always had exploits, that I can remember. prot bond, 55, then the gear/book/item exploit. I can't lie and say I never did that stuff because it was fun for awhile, but I definitely wasn't complaining when they nerfed it.

The fact that GW now has consumable items that boost your attributes, pve only skills, as well as other skills that (basically) render you invulnerable... I can't see how you are complaining.

Guild wars isn't "hard", but it keeps you on your toes if you play hard mode in the more challenging areas (without using all sorts of consumables and pve only skills... )

Drops are fun, but really... GW money is monopoly money. Haven't you been rich and got over that? I found the game was boring when I was 'rich.' Now, I want to actually think while playing and come up with new and interesting builds instead of loading up with consumables, invulnerability skills, and pve only skills and rolling everything.

Not that rolling everything isn't possible without that stuff, but at least you have a sense of accomplishment.

The only 'nerf' that ever affected me was the minion cap, v-sac, and sreap. But with some intelligence, I got around it and made a better MM build. Anet gives crazy buffs when they nerf, you just have to adapt.

If your only goal is titles and cash, of course you are going to be mad when people ruin your 'fun', but at this point in the GW universe... that stuff should be boring anyway. The proof is that you don't want to work for it...

-CM

Jair

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2009

Veritas Invictus [TRUE]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath View Post
A ^ typical example of what I'm talking about. The personality of the leech, exploiter, griefer no doubt etc. etc. that we have to deal with in these RPG games. They don't know how to role play they don't know how to PLAY at all. All they know how to do is bot, exploit and cheat their way through the game and more than likely through life itself.
You completely miss the point. When it comes to overpowered builds, I can see why you would complain, namely in the spirit of 'i cant find me a team cuz i dont wanna play ursan', but that doesn't apply here. At all.

You may be in it for the fun, others may be in it for the optimal result. If they get a run, it may not be the way that ArenaNet intended it, but what on earth does that matter to you? It's just an entirely different way of playing the game, and it doesn't affect you nor you enjoying this game. It would be like asking ArenaNet to nerf everything except for Blood Magic because you like Twilight and you want everyone to be a vampire. Do you see now how ridiculous your arguments are?

Also, cut on the caps lock.

QueenofDeath

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2009

Another ^ example of someone who doesn't understand gaming and that EVERYTHING AFFECTS EVERYTHING in a gaming community. Every individual affects something. Just because YOU can't see it or want to see it or are too 'Ron to see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or affect others and even yourself.

I explained why and obviuosly you can't comprehend how others affect others in this game by not playing by gaming norms.

If you run through the content it's just like jumping ahead in a line for dinner or anything else you stand inline for. Many things have limits even time limits and you cutting in front takes someone else's place toward the back. You would keep someone from getting a ticket, getting to eat, getting whatever service is provided and time runs out or tickets run out. In gaming terms you get to the 100k item and start making 100k for that item long before others who stand inline for it do. You CHEAT them out of their place to start getting that 100k. You also might even prevent them from ever reaching it because you get in a PUG someone else who played the game right would have gotten had you not CHEATED and BYPASSED the gaming rules of conduct. All you are thinking about is your selfish self and what you can gain by bypassing the content and cutting in front of others. You're a theif and a cheat and rude an uncaring and uncourteous to others behind you.
Also I'll use CAPS whenever I see fit and them USEFUL to USE! )

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

^

One guy who should play another game because clearly gw is not the game designed as he like

some-_1

some-_1

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Reading, England

Zaishen Masters [ZM]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by odins daughter View Post
Hm in the dungeons is now impossible, no more runners
ermm... Running was never meant to be part of the game which is why anet nerfed it. ANet have said they could never have predicted most if not all of the farming/running builds we would come up with when they first released the game (I mean c'mon what were the chances of someone lowering their health to 55 and then using PS to keep themselves up?).

If anet had known how people would have used these builds they would have changed the skills before the games release to prevent it and farming might never have existed in the first place. But unfortunately they didn’t have a machine that could see into the future, so now they have to go back and rebalance most skills to prevent the game economy from going down the pan (although its already on its way down), and to stop every area in the game being beaten in <30mins.

Examples of how this has screwed the game up is FoW armour, when that first came out most people could only dream of having it, now nearly everyone in the game has it, just do non-stop DoA, FoW and UW Speed Clears and you'll raise enough cash in no time. Similarly, GWAMM was supposed to the "The Title of All Titles" again, something that most people could have only dreamt about, now with the advent of SC builds most areas of the game can be beaten and VQ'd with very little time and effort; so getting that title only requires a few months of work.

That’s why anet are rebalancing skills, to prevent this game from becoming too easy. Admittedly they don’t always get it right *cough*Shadow From*cough* but at least they're trying. And if you can’t beat one simple Dungeon without the help of a runner then you seriously need to rethink your strategy.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

There were runners that claimed to be able to run all dungeons, all of them, in an evening.
That's no longer possible. And that's good.
The ritualist update is the perfect example of how skills can become 'overpowered' without making possible to overfarm and do things way faster than they are supposed to be.
Spirits balance themselves by not allowing more of them in the party, but, unfortunately, that can't be done with all professions...

I made ALL dungeons but Duncan and Shards of Orr with H/H with my elementalist.
No gimmicks.
I did it, you can too.

Jair

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2009

Veritas Invictus [TRUE]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath View Post
I explained why and obviuosly you can't comprehend how others affect others in this game by not playing by gaming norms.
Nope, not at all. The things you mentioned are ridiculously outdated (Ascalon Arena and Shiverpeaks Arena, seriously?), they do no longer apply to today's gameplay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath View Post
If you run through the content it's just like jumping ahead in a line for dinner or anything else you stand inline for. Many things have limits even time limits and you cutting in front takes someone else's place toward the back. You would keep someone from getting a ticket, getting to eat, getting whatever service is provided and time runs out or tickets run out. In gaming terms you get to the 100k item and start making 100k for that item long before others who stand inline for it do.
This game is instanced. If I play a gimmicky build to kill a boss, I might kill it faster then you. But that doesn't mean that you can't kill that same boss, right? I may have 100k faster than you, but that doesn't mean I stop you from getting 100k.

Del

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenofDeath View Post
Another ^ example of someone who doesn't understand gaming
Pot, meet kettle.

Eragon Zarroc

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

don't rely so heavily on the assistance of others to get your titles done.