Perspective

Sometime when I first go to bad, I get sudden grasp of perspective.

Maybe ANet didn,t really care about balancing the classes. Maybe they didn't care if , in a full necro party, the only necro skill is SoLS. Maybe they didn't care if the best alternative for half the casters is to go SoS spirit-spam/cryway/what-ever-it-was-before. Maybe they tought about those who would play with friends/guildies using whatever suboptimal classes they have at hands.
And I really came out of bed to post that...

Discuss plz.

First of all - never ever go to bad!!!!!!!

Second, I don't think it's that they don't care, but that the level of thought that goes into skill balance has gone down since they started to work on GW2. Half the reason so many skills used to be useless is because they were quite stingy about making skills "too good", now instead of most skills needing a buff, most probably could use a nerf.

PvE Balance has been terrible since day one. It was simply never a priority because PvP was the "real" game and has been maintained as such. It wasn't until Nightfall that they started taking PvE seriously, but by that point the balance they were starting from was pretty bad, and they made it much worse with the Hard Mode vs PvE Skills/Split/Cons inflation. Things will only get worse from here since they've noticed everyone bellyaches about the slighest of nerfs, so it will be buffs buffs buffs to break the game even more.

But yes, every class being not completely useless in a guild group/pug is what they are aiming for, and that's the only realistic goal. Trying to make a diversity of speed clears for areas with pre-set objectives and mobs is completely impossible.

Maybe they have learned that the majority of GW fans prefer GW for PvE over PvP and make GW2 reflect that. (simply a statement of facts not trying to stir the pot)

I seriously wonder if we'll ever see a real PvE nerf again.

Hardly a statement of facts unless you want to put forward some numbers (that aren't eyeballed estimates) in backing up that statement.

What they currently believe is that PvE and PvP are two different games and need to be handled differently. In doing so though, they've introduced tons of... stuff... to the PvE scene that has made the format a joke.

What they did to soldier's fury in the last skill update was pretty atrocious. And not b/c the nerf was particularly bad. It just felt like ANet decided to sucker-punch a baby.

Oh so true, and thus the lack of respect is added to. PvP players call pve players a joke and this has a lot to do with it. But yeah, in the last year and a half i've noticed more and more the division between pvp and pve. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that both are handled differently by the GW programmers and the players. Face the facts though, pve does not require the skill levels to be successful that pvp does. So this means they are two separate games and both demand a lot of attention which currently has not been given and probably will not be given.

Abut a year ago, in an interview about GW's 4th anniversary, Regina was asked:
"What is the current division between PvP and PvE players, and which group tends to be more active? Do you expect this to change?"

Regina's answer:
"Most of our players (about 90%) play PvE, but our PvP players are among the most vocal and passionate of our player base. Both types of players are active in their own ways, so it’s difficult to say which group is more active."

This was posted at http://www.talkingaboutgames.com/new...wars-interview

I can't load that page right now, but Google still has a cached copy of it, which you can see if you search with: "guild wars" regina interview "90%"

I thought it was so blatently obvious that it was generally accepted as fact. Looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, tastes like a duck....oh crap it's a chicken in a duck suit! We've been duped!

Thanks....I really didn't fell like searching this morning b4 my coffee kicked in.

Oh yes, I'm quite aware. Although there are a million ways GW1 pvp could be improved in 2 by fundamentally rethinking things, I have no expectations about GW2 PvP being any good, because it just isn't the main focus anymore. Between hot-joining, wasd movement (minus collision detection) and clearly greater independence of characters, the PvP game will be very different and require different balance considerations, and that may require time they are not willing to devote this go around.

On the other hand given their track record in GW1, I have no expectations about PvE being any good either. They are a capable bunch so I'm not saying its certain to be horrible, but if they don't prioritize challenge/balance and are willing to maintain that with nerfs when needed (current situation), the result will not be surprising.

Yes, I think PvP in GW1 is a lost cause... but I am actually quite hopeful about GW2.

They seem pretty keen on making GW2 PvP into an e-sport, and I am optimistic that they will put a lot of effort into it, and avoid making the same mistakes as GW1. Of course, they might still fail by making a whole NEW set of mistakes... just have to wait and see.

Source

Source

What they're planning for GW2 PvP is clearly a massive departure from GW1 PvP.

Balance is meaningless for a game with gameplay that is inherently flawed. Monsters in PvE are so dumb that the only real functions you can give a profession is to blow things up, tank shit, heal shit or blow more things up. Trying to balance PvE is a waste of time.

Not at all.

You already have 'world pvp', just on smaller scale.

RA, AB, FA, JQ.

Originally I wanted to add HB to the list as well due to very low pvp level until the higher end, however since it was removed and featured 1v1 hero duels, I'm inclined not to include it.

Believe me, mechanics will stay the same. Just because they put a different label to it to draw attention, doesn't mean anything changes in substance.

Plus, I can see those world-vs-world wars an unbearable lagfest composed of spamming aoe spells and summoning minions, and for that reason I doubt it will be completely hot-joinable and without any limits on participants for each side. There will be surely a lot of server switching as well as 'server of the month' kind of thing, where suddenly side with small advantage gets an immediate surge of I-want-to-win hoppers, and they would have to tone it down, e.g. no more difference than +/- 5% per side. I doubt any of you would want to play 10vs12 or 11vs12 AB every single time, put at semi-permanent disadvantage.

Most likely we will get a dozen of unnamed servers on big maps supporting 24vs24 to 100vs100 fights, assigning at random which 'battlefield' you join like in RA. This time around (hopefully), they will do something about syncing, simply by analysing with which people you are in guild, who are your friends on friend list, whom you last talked to/played with. Otherwise a whole guild dominating a battlefield won't be an uncommon sight, and that will certainly upset the goal of these arenas.

People consider WoW an e-sport, that doesn't mean anything. Throwing money and matchmaking at something will not make up for weak mechanics and balance. And yes as you said, they are going for something very different, so their past experience will be less useful. This time around they will probably screw it up worse because it will not get the same effort/focus as during GW1 development. Well chances are the "casual" stuff will be a serious improvement over RA/FA/AB, but I have no expectation for organized play being any good, although they could surprise us.

Yeah, well. You guys must be a right barrel of laughs down the pub :-P

Where you are all doom and gloom pessimism, "it's sure to suck", "whatever they're planning it won't work" etc (until proven otherwise).... I am looking forward to seeing what they come up with, and optimistic that it will be cool (until proven otherwise). That's not blind optimism, or fanboy fanaticism, it's just - they have a lot of talent working for them, and I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt until we see what they deliver.

Also, it's hardly plausible that they'd re-develop PvP from the ground up, and then put in all the same mechanics as GW1. If that was the case, why would they re-develop anything at all?

Weel, there was a point where Blizzard wanted to make wow arena an e-sport. I think they droped the idea somewhere before WotLK. So those people would be right... just a couple of years late.

And from reading Riot Narita, I'm getting a feeling they're going for a full casual game. (which is kinda to be expected from a free game : Casual or cheap)