Imbagon`s not best imba?

Dacomos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2009

Hi.
Im another dude complaining about paragon.

Well, as i keep hearing, imbagon is only paragon build worth playing in further pve.
The thing is, assassin can do imbagon job done AND call for discord kills.

[Assassin Promise] [You move like a dwarf] [Save Yourselves] [For Great Justice] [Critical Eye] [Critical Agility] [Way of the master] [critical defence -optional]

critical agility critical eye and way of the master always up

Hex, condition, For great justice, 4 spear hits and SY! is ready.
After killing mob [For great justice] is recharged.

Tried it and i have no problems with keeping SY! up all the time, most of the times its recharged in less than 4 seconds.

So imbasin>imbagon.

Also, imbasin dont have crappy -20 armor. It can do imba job with 70+15+25 = 110 armor + perma 75% block chance.


Is it anything new that paragon sux? ;p
If ONE thing paragon was good at is taken by Assassin, whats left?

@down im aware of that, but playing imbasin is just easy, almost brainless, 4 skills precast, and 4 skills spamming ;p
Imbagon requires a little timing so you cant play drunk.

Elephantaliste

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2008

adblockplus.or

you can use it with any primary prof as Barrager, 100B, etc.

But you probably dont really need SY in discord teams.

DigitalFear

DigitalFear

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2009

My mother's basement.

Me/

Jagged Strike, Fox Fangs, Death Blossom, SY.

sup.

Popeye1906

Popeye1906

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2009

R/

It always make me laugh to see people ''calling discord''.

Any profession with any skill bar or with no skill bar at all can ping a target.

Sankt Hallvard

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2006

How about you move this to riverside and start a QQ thread petitioning for paragon to be the next class to get some "love". I hear mesmers are getting some buffs now and dervish is next in line. But after that it's all up for grabs. Though eles need a buff as well since HM makes them do puny dmg. And smite monks. And probably rangers too since mesmers are now better than them.

Gift3d

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

before getting all righteous and whiny, you should get a better idea of how guild wars works. you can slap SY on a bunch of different classes and make it work, i do it all the time, but none of them will be able to maintain it indefinitely 100% of the time, as well as provide a party-wide unconditional percentage of damage reduction. besides, the dps on that build is utter poop.

Also, what popeye said. AP isn't required to ping a target. An elite skill just to make use of one skill, YMLAD? Oh puhleez, who are you trying to kid.

WarcryOfTruth

WarcryOfTruth

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009

Atlanta

[LIFE]

P/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacomos View Post
Hi.
Im another dude complaining about paragon.

Well, as i keep hearing, imbagon is only paragon build worth playing in further pve.
The thing is, assassin can do imbagon job done AND call for discord kills.

[Assassin Promise] [You move like a dwarf] [Save Yourselves] [For Great Justice] [Critical Eye] [Critical Agility] [Way of the master] [critical defence -optional]

critical agility critical eye and way of the master always up

Hex, condition, For great justice, 4 spear hits and SY! is ready.
After killing mob [For great justice] is recharged.

Tried it and i have no problems with keeping SY! up all the time, most of the times its recharged in less than 4 seconds.

So imbasin>imbagon.

Also, imbasin dont have crappy -20 armor. It can do imba job with 70+15+25 = 110 armor + perma 75% block chance.


Is it anything new that paragon sux? ;p
If ONE thing paragon was good at is taken by Assassin, whats left?

@down im aware of that, but playing imbasin is just easy, almost brainless, 4 skills precast, and 4 skills spamming ;p
Imbagon requires a little timing so you cant play drunk.
Being an Imbasin gives +100 armor party wide, yes. But you are forgetting that There's Nothing To Fear on a Paragon's bar gives another 35% damage mitigation. Which stacks close to 90-93% less damage for the party. The paragon does not need to cause any damage, nor does it really need any IAS. But, Paragons have other uses, you have to figure them out. I use my paragon VERY effectively, and I don't imbagon. I won't say they need a buff or a nerf, because personally the builds I use work well, but still make the game challenging (to me, that = win, having a build that is effective, but doesn't guarantee success).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephantaliste View Post
But you probably dont really need SY in discord teams. LOL, what, you'll have your minions soak up damage for you? I don't use Discord, I find it inefficient compared to what I use. Think I'm only trying to troll, PM me and I can send you screenshots of my heroes and henchmen VQing areas in times faster then 2 players + 6 Discords can. Back on topic, I have been highly confused as to why Discord teams are so popular, I've used one once, it was slow and if I hadn't been running my Imbagon build at the time, it would have been an epic phail. Maybe it was just a fluke experience, and if so maybe someone can help me see why discord is so popular... but, my statement stands, that Discord without some sort of mitigation like that won't work, until I am proven otherwise

WarcryOfTruth

WarcryOfTruth

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009

Atlanta

[LIFE]

P/

But... not in my experience, that's what I'm saying, I don't see how stuff dies... it took forever in the party I was in

Popeye1906

Popeye1906

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2009

R/

DiscoWay is an all around good team build that any class can run with success, you just gotta know how to tweak it for certain areas.

Frankly, i prefer to go with a Ele Order, a Rit double Bomber, and a jagged Bomber necro. I some time switch the necro for a para hero.

To the OP, just have 1 hex and 1 condition on your bar and you're in business.

I run disco on my ranger and i go with BHA + Epidemic and i let my curse necro take care of the hexing.

Yes BHA + Epidemic is a sub bar, but it synergize well with DiscoWay

Eragon Zarroc

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

sigh, a warrior can maintain SY better than that with a d-slash build. Imbagons can maintain permanent SY. Imbagons have there's nothing to fear (when combined with SY = 90% dmg reduction). and paragons can easily apply a condition to a target. ur discord necros can easily apply a hex. so basically ur sin is sub-par. good try.

Ruscour

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2010

A Man A Woman And A Crocodile [Moo]

Rt/Mo

A/W
10+1 crit
11+1+1 daggers
10 tactics

ascan, jagged strike, fox fangs, death blossom, critical eye, fear me, soldier's stance, save yourselves

bro, i just called discord, maintained SY, tanked, and did a buttload of damage.

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

Imbagon has TNTF! This does not. Imbagons can keep SY! up 100% of the time, same as this. There's no benefit for being able to spam SY! more than once every 4-6 seconds (save for e-gain for the imbagon, obviously). Therefore, imbagon > imbasin.

Also, an imbagon will actually deal decent damage. This is a better AP caller build, but believe it or not, not everyone just plays with heroes, and not everyone just plays with discord on their heroes.

Arrogant Bastard

Arrogant Bastard

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2009

Your mom's house

E/

I don't think this was mentioned but Paragons usually have excellent positioning to ensure that both the frontline and backline are affected by the shouts.

Either way, running discord on a melee is laughable. Running an AP caller on melee is even worse.

Essence Snow

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

"The word itself is a portmanteau of the words "Imbalanced" and "Paragon." "(wiki) This becomes the case when TntF is added to SY and possibly ToF, resuilting in excess of 90% dmg mitigation. Since TntF is linked to the Paragon's primary line they exceed others in this manner and as noted above are positioned better for this type of role.

NerfHerder

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

Even though I know what you are getting at. Imbagon is still superior.(See TNTF). It doesnt hurt to have at least one melee carry SY!, so the imbagon can be rewarded as well. It does undermine having a Imbagon somewhat, but still cant provide the same measure of protection.

Axel Zinfandel

Axel Zinfandel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Northeastern Ohio

LaZy

P/W

Go cap Auspicious Parry with any of your classes, slap SY! on there with a spear, and congrats, you have a perma maintainer of SY!

...But that isn't the point. Imbagon is first and foremost designed to upkeep superior party protection with very little chance of failure. A front-line character will not be able to maintain it as well as a back-line paragon, for numerous reasons.
For one, you rely on enemies for adrenaline. every second spent running from enemy to enemy lowers your efficiency at up-keeping SY!. At range, you have the luxury of quickly switching from target to target (also useful with blocking stances, and switching targets there.)
Secondly, Being a front-line character attracts more aggro to you on top of the fact that your entire team has gained a crap-load more armor than you. While this most often isn't a problem, There's the slight possibility that it can be a problem, and being a back-line character eliminates that.

Tenebrae

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth View Post
LOL, what, you'll have your minions soak up damage for you? I don't use Discord, I find it inefficient compared to what I use. Think I'm only trying to troll, PM me and I can send you screenshots of my heroes and henchmen VQing areas in times faster then 2 players + 6 Discords can.
Well if you are using a Discord team and your minions dont soak up damage you are doing something very wrong.
About VQ times , those are cheap and big words pal. Are you sure you have the right average times of a 2+6 Discord team ? with micro`d skills ? hmmm. I dunno what did you use as discord but that spike is bloody faster , you can even have diff targets ( i actually do ) and kill foes in pairs in a matter of 4-5 sec average.

Quote: Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth View Post
Back on topic, I have been highly confused as to why Discord teams are so popular, I've used one once, it was slow and if I hadn't been running my Imbagon build at the time, it would have been an epic phail. There you go. To achieve Discordway max potential you need an AP caller ... when we are talking about 4-5 sec per foe , not having an AP caller can make that time about 8-12 sec and even more without micro'd skills.
Im not a big fan of Discord way but hell , is not so hard to use and before you throw shit on it , you should learn to play it at max efficiency ( like you obviously didnt ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth View Post
Maybe it was just a fluke experience, and if so maybe someone can help me see why discord is so popular... but, my statement stands, that Discord without some sort of mitigation like that won't work, until I am proven otherwise How about 16+ minions on front line to mitigate damage ?. Not a big fan of discord but im not a fan of SY! either. Some ppl here wont go even to a NM mission without SY! but the truth is that SY! its a "last resort" type of skill. If you are doing the things you are supposed to and use good builds according to the zone/mission you are in .......SY! is redundant.

Myotheraccount

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

Lawl.

No they aren't best imbas anymore. We got builds such as Spiritway and Discord now that have tons of defense already so what imba provies is widely redundant. What you need from the player now is to do many dommagz which imba has none of.

Essence Snow

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount View Post
Lawl.

No they aren't best imbas anymore. We got builds such as Spiritway and Discord now that have tons of defense already so what imba provies is widely redundant. What you need from the player now is to do many dommagz which imba has none of. Looked like it to me

NerfHerder

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount View Post
/facedesk

Please learn to read...

I was not comparing Hero builds to Imbagon.
What I been saying in my post was that because vast mojority of builds you are running with already provide more than enough defense, Imbagon's protection is simply not required. Look up redundancy in the dictionary.

You are better off dealing massive damage but unfortunately, like you have pointed out as well, Paragon deals little of it.

Thats why Imbas see less use atm.
I was responding to the OP....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacomos View Post
Hi.
Im another dude complaining about paragon.

Well, as i keep hearing, imbagon is only paragon build worth playing in further pve.
The thing is, assassin can do imbagon job done AND call for discord kills.

[Assassin Promise] [You move like a dwarf] [Save Yourselves] [For Great Justice] [Critical Eye] [Critical Agility] [Way of the master] [critical defence -optional]

critical agility critical eye and way of the master always up

Hex, condition, For great justice, 4 spear hits and SY! is ready.
After killing mob [For great justice] is recharged.

Tried it and i have no problems with keeping SY! up all the time, most of the times its recharged in less than 4 seconds.

So imbasin>imbagon.

Also, imbasin dont have crappy -20 armor. It can do imba job with 70+15+25 = 110 armor + perma 75% block chance.

Nubarus

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

PxKs

My main character is a Paragon and I find it hilarious to read all the posts that they are redundant and useless, or not up to par with other professions that provide a "simular" role.

Not to mention that in every discussion that thiscrapway shit pops up as the mother of all hero teams.

Yes, on it's own a Paragon does not really deal that much dmg, but that's what a TEAM is for. There are plenty of classes and skills that can buff up the overal dmg to rediculous proportions, just that most of these self appointed "leet" players don't know how to build a good team on their own is more the real problem then anything else.

I have pretty much done everything there is to do with my beloved Paragon, only here and there some loose ends but that's more or less shifted to the background since I have 2 young children now that I intend to raise and spend time with then let em starve to death because I rather play an online game like some ppl on this planet.

Back on topic, my Paragon provides so much protection that 1 dedicated healer in the party is enough and with some nice hexes and weapon spells my Paragon deals enough dmg to matter.
So this leaves 1 extra slot for dedicated dmg.
I have done enough HM to know what goes around in this game and when it comes to speed I can pretty much say that I know I am ok in that department.

An area I like to Vanquish for faction points to name an example is Silent Surf, my own hero builds, my own Paragon build too btw, not that Imbagon build from PvX since I find that build not really doing what I seek in a Paragon as a whole, I VQ that area in around 30 mins, sometimes a few minutes more, sometimes a few minutes less.(Without a movement speed boost)
The only foes that pose some sort of threat there are the Kirin Mesmer mobs and require a little care when it comes to breaking aggro with em, other then them lot I can aggro multiple mobs without a problem and whipe the floor with em within 1 or 2 minutes, depending on how many mobs I face at a single time.

All I can say is ppl that say other classes can do a better job at it clearly have very little insight of the true potential of the Paragon class.

Now all those that feel I stepped on their manhood, feel free to flame away, I won't loose any sleep over it. Peace......

The Riven

The Riven

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

None worth mentioning

P/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post

If you're playing an actual Imbagon, or any build that can maintain SY!, you should be swapping out a lot of your other defencive skills for heavier offensive powers. You're a paragon, your maintaining SY and hell why not TNTF? . Dont try to be uber-supah-hero offence, play to your strengths and buff the real offence for a more powerful, harder to kill team.
Fairly obvious really.

Stupid topic though.

chuckles79

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2009

FILA

P/

I've been thinking about this, and I know what's going on here psychologically.
The biggest haters of paras are always sins, and vice versa.
Paras hate sins because SF was cheap, and has reduced the need for imbagons.
Sins hate paras, because Ursanway was cheap, and sins were the butt of pve.


With that out of the way, imbasins are humorous, but not the end of imbagons. I think offensively oriented players don't realize how nice protection is, especially when they are not the ones providing it. TntF and a spammable SY along with some dmg has it's place.
I appreciate the idea of imbasins, but Dagger Spammer paragons are in the same class (lots of dmg with some defense, and energy mgmt for the entire team)


Lastly, this is reason 1001 that paragons need some update tweaking. No need to overpower them, but an offensively based paragon shouldn't be a joke.