Build a Better PvE Using What We Already Have

NOTE: this is going to be long. Sorry about that. If you're just skimming, each bit is in bold, and at the very end there's a brief wrapup.



As we all know, the PvE crew doesn't have the manpower it used to, but there are plenty of changes people would like to make. With the game in its evening hours (although to be fair, the old girl's held up pretty well, and can still be a blast if you take some time away from her and return later), a lot of the enormous changes like Auction Houses and new domains aren't particularly feasible. Yet at the same time, there are improvements that can be made. Thus, perhaps an alternative discussion...

What quick and dirty changes could make the game better?

What code or resources already exist that contain fascinating potential?

Old code, old systems, old tricks given a new life are often a faster way of producing content than producing something from nothing. Re-engineering current ideas offers a break for the programmers, allowing a smaller team to accomplish more by recycling that which currently works.

To start off, I thought I might present a few possibilities, random bits of code or concepts which might make the game better if they were expanded.


We begin with Randomized Skills.

One of the better ideas proposed in the opposition thread, adding two to four random skill slots to the monster bars would promote variety, make each mob unique, and reduce the effectiveness of gimmicks (because the chance of a skill that counters that gimmick is far more likely if the monsters aren't static). Would this require new code, new programming?

Nope. It's already in the game. In the Junundu.

Junundu Feast is a fascinating skill which, upon activation, replaces itself with one of three random skills, Choking Breath, Blinding Breath, or Burning Breath, with an exact 33% percent chance of each. It's an amazing technical masterpiece, a diamond in the rough, because if you strip away the duration and the corpse requirement, you have “use this skill, and randomly get a skill”.

What if we tapped into its potential to randomize monster bars, adding a few variable skills alongside their normal bars?

Let us say, for a moment, that we took Junundu Feast and stripped it down. We call it “Warrior Factions Stance Skill”, and we make it infinite duration, upon use; becomes one of a skillset X, where X is every Core and Factions warrior stance. Then we quickly scan through the Factions HM monster bars, and every time we see an appropriate critter (humanoid preferred, so that the leviathan claws aren't assuming ninja stances) that could use a stance, drop it in. Suddenly, there are a ton of monsters with a bit of variety, each augmenting their chosen warrior styles with offensive and defensive stances that make them a little more unpredictable.

Let us say, for a moment, that we created a “Ranger Prophecies Prep Skill” and added it across the creatures. Now you have a reason to worry about any ranger monster you see, because it might be poisonous, or fire choking gas, or setting things on fire with whichever randomized skill they are packing in their quivers.

Let us say, for a moment, that we wanted Kournan Scribes to be truly fearsome. They pack Master of Magic, which grants them 12 in every elementalist attribute, but never use it to full potential, because they just spam meteors and fireballs. But if we gave him completely random skills that drew upon the entire Nightfall campaign and core abilities, Scribes would be dangerous and unpredictable opponents who could unleash frost and fire, thunder and earth, each slinging different spells.

The shining glory, of course, would be the Fissure and the Underworld, which could benefit from skills of all campaigns, representing fallen warriors and lost spirits from the entire realm.

Using the Junundu's code, Anet can create customized pools of abilities that can be easily added to random monsters. This makes updating the creatures incredibly easy; if it has Domination, drop in Domination Skill randomizers until it has a full bar. If it has no stance, drop a Stance Skill. If they want a particular emphasis, such as Axe Condition Skill or Random Enchant Removal or Well Skills, that would work too! This makes updating monsters a breeze, because you only have to adjust the skill pools which draw upon any skill that gets a functionality change.

What does this add? Variety. If every monster is just a little bit different, it is much harder to predict exactly what will occur in any given fight, and you have to keep watch in case of major trouble should some of the more potent skills come up. More importantly, it helps reduce gimmick builds. If a certain overpowered combo is effective in most areas where its only counter isn't used, it can dominate. But if the counter skills that can blow it out of the water have a chance of appearing on monster bars, and the player doesn't truly know if they will have it or not, the gimmick is far less effective. Adding randomization on top of the monster's normal bar promotes balanced play, because imbalanced combinations have a far greater chance of collapsing entirely should their specific counter be present.


Targeted Loot

What if we could adjust the drop rate? Take a single hypothetical scenario. What if we were rewarded for vanquishing with a special bit of loot in the form of regional-specific items. But unfortunately, this would yield a very nefarious problem, vanquishing the easiest area possible (Tahnakai Temple, I'm looking in your direction) to farm the items.

But what if the drop rate was dynamic?

As anyone who's done some Nightfall Challenge Missions knows, the rate of getting hero armor plummets dramatically when you reach four of them. While this gameplay choice was....unfortunate, it yields an interesting revelation; the drop rate can change, and it can change in real time.

So in our hypothetical scenario, what if you made the drop rate of rare stuff increase based on how many foes you vanquished? Kill three hundred enemies, you have a normal drop rate. Kill five hundred, and the rarity increases quite a bit. Kill only two (Tahnakai, see me after class), and you have no chance whatsoever of getting The Good Stuff, so farming the easiest point isn't recommended.

Find ways to make good systems repeatable, and properly reward them with interesting loot. Things like vanquishing (better chance of loot from larger challenges), dungeon treks (have increased reward for slaying one's way through rather than running), challenge missions (have an end reward, with better rarity based on high score), etc.

What loot, you ask? After all, new items don't grow on trees, they require modeling, coding, development....unless they were already in the game and weren't accessable.

Raid Tolkano's Secret Stash

When they implemented Tolkano several years ago, they gave PvP characters a way to obtain different skins, which were previously found only in PvE. This was a good thing. But they did something wrong. They gave PvP characters stuff PvE didn't have. These include...

Kournan Sword, Lesser Etched Sword, Etched Sword, Greater Etched Sword, Lesser Granite Edge, Granite Edge, Greater Granite Edge, Lesser Stoneblade, Stoneblade (no url), Greater Stoneblade, Canthan Shortsword, Arced Blade, Greater Arced Blade, Lord Onrah's Sword, Greater Naga Bow, Greater Sturdy Bow, Desolation Wand, Druidic Wand, Elegant Wand, Juju Scepter, Lesser Ancient Rod, Ancient Rod, Greater Ancient Rod, Silver Cane, Viridian Scepter, Silver Dragon Cane, Seahorse Scepter, Kaineng Wand, Boneclaw Rod, Darkwing Wand, Dragon Rod, Platinum Scepter, Tiger Rod, Iron Ladle, Ivory Crescent, Luminescent Lantern, Skullcrest Focus, Woven Focus, Forgotten Fan and its brothers, Shadestone, Banded Staff, Cowing Staff, Emanating Staff, Lesser Istani Staff, Istani Staff, Greater Istani Staff, Meditative Staff, Pyric Staff, Labyrinthine Spire, Shark Staff, Bedlam Staff, Darkwing Staff, Elliptical Staff, Sacred Staff, Willcrusher Staff, and the Blood Spear.

Not a bad haul, eh?

Some of these are skins unobtainable in PvE, some represent skins that are found on a few infrequent greens (several of which are non-max, Istani items, and therefore worthless). Add these to the game, spread across all campaigns, especially in regions that lack special items (for instance, Echovald has unique gear of value, but the Crystal Desert does not). Recently, they gave PvPers access to weapon skins they couldn't get, such as the Deldrimor equipment, EotN armor, and Bonus Mission Pack stuff, because there were complaints that it was unfair that the PvP crowd could not access these weapons. It's time for the equal and fair return; these weapons exist, they should be obtainable in PvE.

But that is just a few items, and they are rather focused on sword/caster, leaving axes, hammers, daggers, spears, etc, in a bind. If we wanted to round out the sets (making more Chaos items, more Eternal weapons, a few more Celestials, etc), we would need new models. Which we aren't getting, unless we do them ourselves.

Why not Tap Into Community Creativity?

Between the thousands of players, there are bound to be those who have experience with texture work, 3d modeling, and other graphics design. With the Anet manpower devoted to GW2, there isn't much time for creating new material for the current game. Why not, then, open up the possibility of fan created Armor, Weaponry, Pets, etc?

Now, the biggest hurdle to this is, of course, legal. You can't exactly take anything and plug it directly into a game open to the public. There are plenty of hurdles surrounding ownership, permissions, copyright.....but it can be done. Valve's TF2 Contribute method, for example, takes works of the fans for direct use, along with their legal agreements and selection. Ergo, it must be possible, in some fashion, to incorporate such works into the game.

The second problem is quality control. Flooding Anet isn't exactly the nicest thing to do, and shifting through model after model isn't conducive to the Quick And Easy prospect that was mentioned earlier. But what if Anet took a group of hardened gamers from the community, ones with historic ties, lots of playtime, and a certain sense of refined taste (A Connoisseur Krewe, if you will), and appointed them as stewards of a submission site that took community-made models, textures, and graphics for potential submission and integration into the game?

The result would be the possibility of new arms and armor, new pets and creatures, all made possible though fan contributions to the game. The world becomes more diverse and beautiful, the gamers gain a greater connection to the game by becoming a part of its creative engine, and Anet has people who can, will, and want to do the work for them to make new things.

Of course, that suggestion is a little bit less "what we already have" and more "what we could possibly have", so we'll tangent back to the former, talking about another distinct possibility for making the game better...

PvE Skills

Now, at this point, I can feel the suspension of disbelief shattering. PvE skills are often lauded as one of the worst offenders, overpowered garbage that broke the game. And there is certainly a case for toning down certain skills (Technobabble blows Broad Head Arrow out of the water, Mind Bender laughs in the face of one profession's primary attribute, etc). And a lot of them would improve dramatically if tied to the class's primary attribute (make Selfless Spirit semi-maintainable with a high Divine Favor, let Aura of Holy Might give the Dervish crowd a reason to like Mysticism, let Intensity give primary eles proper armor penetration for nuking in hard mode, etc). But that's not what I'm talking about...

Borrow PvE-only and Monster skill code to modify or improve normal skills.

There are a lot of skills that do incredibly fantastic things. Skills that call forth djinn, crash into foes and send them tumbling, project aura barriers, throw Hot Potatoes, allow the dead to claw their way back to life, and simply vanish into thin air. And all the skills are programmed fluidly into the game already (like the Junundu Feast above), but their potential isn't tapped in the normal skillset.

What if Dervishes could actually project auras, similar to the Phase Shield as a replacement to some of their lackluster enchantments, allowing them to have powerful control over a small area in tandem with their AoE scything? Skills that impacted everything in their immediate area, allowing Wind Prayers to act like a point blank healbot, or Earth Prayers to pin down everything in the vicinity, or Mysticism to boost the offensive capabilities of anyone standing next to the Dervish? Using the Phase Shield's “I project an aura, anything in the aura is subject to This Skill” mechanic, Dervishes could have a unique place on the battlefield, setting them apart from warriors and assassins.

What if the Asura Summoning skills were copied over to normal class skills, allowing the Elementalist to summon a bird of fire with Phoenix, call forth a wintery warrior with Water Trident, summon djinn of storm and flame, or raise a behemoth of living rock with Stone Sheath? What if the Ranger elite nature rituals, currently very lackluster, called forth a spirit which not only projected an aura effect, but also followed the ranger around and projected a shorter range, offensive ability (So Quicksand would have its normal, spirit range effect, but also snare any enemy in earshot that stops moving. Greater Conflagration would change everything to fire damage, and apply burning to enemies in the aggro bubble)? What if a Monk could summon defensive helpers with Pensive Guardian, Kirin's Wrath, Shield Guardian (although probably not the normal Guardian, because it is actually useful), Supportive Spirit, Vigorous Spirit, Watchful Spirit, and Martyr? Give summoning to multiple professions could enhance their skill list dramatically (although you would have to find a way to make them distinct from minion mastery and ritualist spirits, but that can easily be done).

What if there were skills that directly manipulate monster attention, like Hide? So Shadow Sanctuary didn't just provide some paltry health regen, it actually made the assassin invisible for just a few seconds (and had a near-instant activation time, short duration, and longer recharge), thus making it the perfect Getaway skill? What if Pacifism literally took a monster out of the fight by making it no longer attempt to do any harm, as the skill describes? What if Amity could make a target other ally completely invisible to enemies as long as he didn't use a skill or attack, thus allowing a monk to save someone on the brink of death by granting them divine sanctuary (with a clause that prevents it from being the perfect runner skill, of course)? Sure, you'd have to ensure that they worked differently when cast on player characters from those darn Aloe critters, but would it not otherwise be worth it?

What if more skills used the Weapon, Bundle, and Form concepts? What if rangers could carry their traps as bundles and drop them into position, or Mesmers could toss an Ethereal Burden onto a foe which prevented it from attacking (and the foe could drop it at any time, but to do so would cause a minor explosion)? What if Illusionary Weapon, the Conjure element line, and several smiting skills were weapon spells, making them immune to enchantment stripping and given their own unique graphics? What if abilities like Mist Form, Ancestor's Visage, and Armor of Mist/Frost/Earth were transforming skills that significantly changed the caster in statistics and appearance? What if the Dervish forms used the Ursan/Raven/Wolfen blessing mechanic and replaced themselves on the bar when you cast them, thus granting a unique attack alongside the form (So Avatar of Grenth, when used, would transform the character AND grant them the Edge of Oblivion skill, a powerful scythe attack)?

What if more skills granted control over the positions of the enemy, not just our characters, similar to Shadow Smash? If a spell like Crystal Wave could throw enemies away from the caster, or Reckless Haste could pull a target forward, out of position, or Balthazar's Pendulum could toss away foes if they are adjacent to an ally?

What if more skills worked beyond the normal In The Area effect, similar to Flurry of Splinters? What if Light of Dwayna produced a gentle rain of light motes that revived anyone in the aggro bubble? What if an Elementalist could create enormous area effects, so that something like the old Lightning Storm could have a 25 energy cost, ten seconds of casting time, with “Every second while casting this spell, one enemy within earshot takes X....Y damage. Casting effect; deals damage to all foes in the area of your target”, or something like that. Star Burst could create a gigantic corona of fire, Earthquake could cause tremors across bow range, Tenai's Winds could conjure a hurricane, etc, all relying on enormous area effects and extremely high energy costs, vulnerable to interruption but still very effective?

What if, absurd as it sounds, there were skills that you could use when you were dead? Yeah, I know it sounds incredibly stupid, but hear me out. Dwarven Brawling, a wonderful pastime in its own right, brought us the interesting STAND UP mechanic, which allowed you to continue acting even with a health of zero. Now, while I'm certainly not suggesting a duplicate skill elsewhere (being near-immune to death would be broken beyond belief), what if there were a few skills which you could use upon your unfortunate demise? What if a necromancer could haunt his corpse with Feast for the Dead, hexing anything that was nearby? What if a fallen monk could use Dwayna's Sorrow to create a small healing font where the fallen servant of divinity fell? What if an assassin could unleash a Deadly Paradox, a spectre of shadow that emerged from their corpse and moved about attacking foes for a short time, but promptly died if the assassin was revived?

Now, that last category wasn't exactly serious, added in mostly because of its amusement value. But nonetheless, the point carries; there are a lot of unique mechanics buried within the code, from Firebomb's hilarious Hot Potato mechanic to Corrupted Dragon Spores' minion/area effect combination attack. When looking for ways to make boring skills more useful, numbers alone aren't all that one could adjust. They don't have to be OVER 9000 or otherwise ridiculously overpowered, but because there is more room for outlandish effects in PvE, the designers can work on options that are more fun and interesting rather than just crunching numbers. Filter through the interesting mechanical options of PvE only, Scenario specific, and Monster skills to find amazing mechanical wonders waiting to be reborn into new options.

Of course, with more options comes that nagging detail, the ability to only be one class. But that makes me wonder...

There are a lot of classes with lots of different ways of approaching combat. Which is a good thing, of course. Problem is, making every class viable in every mission, every quest, and every explorable area is extremely difficult. You have bosses like Mallyx which can only be defeated by very specific tactics (and anyone who uses anything else isn't welcome), you have very specific builds which can take on the competition, and you have certain combinations which excel in a certain setting so dramatically that they are the only practical possibility.

As a result, any given PvE character might not be able to accomplish everything. In addition, areas don't get designed toward favoring a single class, because that would be unfair to the rest of them. This means that certain fun missions or challenges don't get designed if they would overemphasize one profession. And that's the way life's going to be. Because it's not like we can Change Primary Professions.

…..Or can we?

Journey to the North is an absolutely amazing piece of code, an effect which changes a class into a level 20 version of themselves, useful for making lower level characters viable in GWEN. What if we took the same code and created a way for people to “switch classes”?

Let's say you are a Mo/W. Your team needs a tank. You are not a tank. But you can become one. You take out your superspecialawesome item, Heroic Transformation. It reads your secondary profession, and turns on the following ability: “Your primary attribute is set to zero. You gain the armor level of your secondary profession. You have attribute points based on your equipment and skills (like JttN already does)”

Congratulations, you are now a warrior.

Sure, you're not the best warrior under the sun, but you can hold your own. And with just a little more tweaking (the ability for weakness to function properly against JttN, etc) and perhaps a few items that mimic runes (so I use my Pyromancy item, it makes the game think I have a superior fire rune, fire headgear, etc, but does NOT stack with normal equipment), and you have a dedicated system that would allow any class to temporarily transform into another one. Sure, you won't have the full range of secondary class options, but you WILL be able to do Warrior Things like all the best warriors, or Monk Things like all the best monks.

And if you don't want a single item with such a large code, it would still be easy to split. You might have an Aspect of Chaos which turns you into a mesmer (mesmer animations optional), or a disguise that makes a character look like an iconic NPC of that profession and sets you up with the relevant stats.

Of course, it'll always be a bit better to be the primary profession, but if anyone can do anything at least decently, it will mean the game can have class-specific challenges and bosses without worrying about anyone being edged out.



So, all together, what do we have?

We can add randomization to monster skill bars to make mobs have more variety.
We can have the drop rate shift and vary, so that doing harder things yields better results than farming something easy.
We can gain new loot by raiding unused models and drawing upon community creativity through submissions.
We can tap into the special code of many nifty skills to make the current skill list more interesting.
And we can allow players to take on the roles of other primary classes, thus granting the ability to tailor challenges and missions to specific professions without problem.

You might like some of these suggestions, you might despise them, and both are equally valid points of view. Regardless of your thoughts on the individual points in question, the more important thing is this; there's a lot of very, very good code that's squirrelled away in the game, often used for only one or two isolated cases. If it can be changed and modified, it could improve the game dramatically, and do so in a fashion that is far, far easier than demanding new things be created from scratch.

So what little gems can we find within the game that could improve gameplay? What aspects of Guild Wars could use some re-engineering to accomplish a different feat? What have you found within the game that made you wonder if it could be used for some other, awesome purpose? If we want to build a better PvE, the easiest way is to use and reuse what we already have.

Etched sword can be crafted from collectors btw

Well that took a while to read....lol.....as I know nothing of coding and what might be required to implement changes like the ones suggested...it was definately interesting. I for one have always wanted the Tolkano skins in PvE...and so collected the various greens from across PvE (beautiful skins horrible stats). Would love to see some of these in a form much like Dhuum's Soul Reaper...a modable gold. While I am not sure about the mimic profession deal...mainly b/c there would be almost no reason to have multiple chars of different proffessions if any single one could mimic them all, I do feel in some places (DoA as a Derv comes to mind) where I wish I wasn't a Derv. I'll close in saying that some of the ideas look interesting and some look so drastic they might be best left as wishful thinking.

*note~the etched that is crafted in asuran lands if I remeber correctly comes with a crappy inheirent mod~slighlty recall farm krait skins for making caster swords only to find some crap mod

I would like to get my pixelated hands on a few of those as well....I dont pvp (can you say too slow to react before I die>?) so pve is ALL I do...they gave in to the crys of the pvp people about skins, guess its our turn now (though this should probably go in the sanitarium instead of riverside).

Great post, rated 5/5
This could work, however, the random skill will have to be an extra skill on the bar, to make sure that the build doesn't break because the replacement and I imagine it will also be one of the harder ideas to implement.
I love these two suggestions, and I hope Anet uses them, espesually the drop rate idea. It will mean dungeons won't be over farmed, as Speedruns will less fruitful
I loved your first two ideas, but I think these last two points as you have portrayed them are mostly unfeasible. However, some aspects, I think could be developed into nice additions. For example, perhaps a few consumables that increases your armour rating, or gives you energy regen for a small amount of time. And skills such as a bundle trap would be a very nice aspect, but I think it is going a bit far when you start making tonnes of skills summon creatures

Would lje the pvp skins. Maybe make them obtainable with zaishen coins.

Definitely need a reward overhaul,but not really like having to grind through hundreds of foes. Simply doubling chest drops from dungeons (at least really...),increasing the amount of gold (munneh) dropped and upping the gold rate would be aces.

The "PvE Skills & Professions" part would actually require a lot of resources - both time and work - to implement and balance the whole thing out. While the implementation, by recycling what's been given, may be quite easy, not breaking the game (even more...) with it would take a lot of time.

However, the Free Republic of Kryta Movement approves and supports all the other ideas.

Let me clarify that, actually, because I don't think I did a good job explaining it.

Being able to change primaries anytime, anywhere isn't really the issue, and since it might lead to bugs or exploits, wouldn't be the real point. What the system COULD be, though, is a way to have things like Mallyx or other bosses that are very specific to certain strategies not be a problem for other professions.

So if you have a boss that basically laughs in the face of any class that relies on hexes, enchantments, and stances (which is to say, a lot), you could add an NPC that would temporarily transform your character into something else, some sort of Lightbringer Ascension, to continue the Mallyx example. During this time, you have the armor, attribute, and abilities of another profession, and you have the option of switching around your bar, Kuunavang style.

Merge the Imperial Sanctum/Raisu Kuunavang skill code and the Journey to the North attribute and armor adjustment code, and you have a temporary transformation into a completely different class. This would let Anet have very specific challenges tailored toward certain professions, and anyone else could mimic them well enough to do just fine and contribute to the group.

Heck, you could even have challenges where the entire point was to shift from one profession to another. If they ever did the other divine domains (unlikely pipe dream, but still fun to think about), Lyssa's illusions could split you into fragmented forms, forcing you to overcome different trials as different classes. But that's another story, one that isn't exactly quick and easy.

This sounds sort of like the Story book quests for bonus mission pack. ex) Saul's Story..so the coding might be similar

I love OP so much.
but a-net will always say "we don't have the resources available to implement these changes..."

I can agree with and support pretty much everything said here, save the part on PvE skills. I do see that there are lots of ways that skills can become more interesting, but,

I don't really think I want to see a lot of skills like this, especially so if their purpose is to only exist in PvE.

Additionally, the "tapping into the community" part doesn't seem like something ANet would do. Contests for weapon concept art, sure. I don't really think that it would go a lot farther than that.

Some interesting suggestions, but there are some problems:

Random Skills: Junundu Feast is actually a player skill. The closest though to what you would be suggesting, I feel, is the random skill throwup with the snowball fights (Grenth or Dwayna), though even then it would take a fair bit to modify and implement the code across the PvE world. While simple on paper, there would be a lot of coding needed so it is still somewhat balanced (you dont want a mob in Ring of Fire using a weak skill, or a strong one for a mob in Pockmark Flats). While yes, I would like to see this, I think it would be extremely hard for them to implement.

Targeted Loot: the drop rate does change. While not exactly for all areas, an area that is overfarmed does tend to yield lesser drops of some items

Tolkano's stash: to rip a friend off from another forum: (b'-')b Agreed. I think it is time in the game where those weapons could be released to the PvE realm

Community Creativity: It is a pity they dont run those Design-A-Weapon competitions anymore... But again it is a coding issue which I dont think the LT have the resources for. Like the idea for weapons, but given the game as it is, I am unsure when it comes to armour. Pets though... Well, I have always wanted a proper lynx (with the tufts at the side, not the normal cat face they have atm)

PvE skills: some interesting ideas there, but again there would be coding issues. the Profession change one is one that stood out for me, and I would have to say no to. Beyond the fact that it would take a lot more coding than you would think (you are not only changing the primary, you are changing the character altogether) it is just my opinion that it isnt exactly a good idea.

The ranger spirits following you around... They actually had in the beta where spirits affected the whole map, and there was another skill that was used to kill them. Having them follow you around.. kinda not sold on that, and slightly the same for some of the other suggestions in that area. The problem I see is the possibility for too much OP stuff. There should be a focus of getting rid of that kind of stuff before putting more stuff like this in.

Dervish Aura projection... That actually is a good idea


There are a lot of good ideas in there (some though a bit worrisome) but the biggest problem is implementation. while some coding is in existence, you will still need more coding to adapt it, and in some cases coding to put it in, and I think that is where the real issue is. There is a reason why they are making GW2, and I think a lot of the ideas here would be the reason why: they cant really implement it within the current game. And as for the rest, again the resources.

I would say yes though to unlocking Talkano's stash though. that one probably wouldnt be hard to add

Here's an essay for you, with love (you can scroll down to the tl;dr part if you like)

Randomization of a few skills sounds great and the Junundu Feast idea seems completly logical. However I think it's not THAT easy. It has potential for sure. Your Warrior Stance example for instance. Sure it's fun to have a slightly diffrent warrior trying to bash your head in everytime, but the chance that his few randomized skills are going to be a serious threath to you, your party, or whatever gimmick you are running is quite limited. Sure the chance it's always greater then when the builds are set in stone, but my guess would be that the random skills will not contribute a thing to the foe's effectiveness 8 out of 10 times. Again this idea (if at all possible) has potential, but needs more tought then just slapping a few stances on any warrior or random offensive spells on an ele.

Drop rate shifting after you kill x amount of foes is not really going to do it. If I had the choice to run to the end boss of a dungeon, kill it and get a (valueable) drop in 15 minutes or slay 450 foes in an hour+ and get a better drop rate of valuable items. I'd go for the dungeon run. My point is; as long as speed clears exist (infact the whole speedclear mentality), this idea will not work.

Robbing Tolkano? Loved it. Set up a team. 11 people. You think we need 1 more? You think we need 1 more... Ok we get 1 more.....

Let the community help. The Idea is good. The Valve thing is also good. Filter all the submissions, good. Looks pretty good on paper. There are only 2 things wrong with it really. 1) I cannot believe that adding a new weapon to the game is going to be as easy as just handing a model to the Live Team. 2) The Test Krewe idea didn't really work out that well (To me it doesn't really look like alot of testing is being done, I might be wrong, I simply do not know), so another group of people to work with might not be manageable

The idea for skill mechanic changes by mixing pve/monster skill effects with regular skills. Sure I would like to see a dragon rise out of thin air and stomping my opponents head in or something like that. Thing is, it sounds to easy. The Live Team claims they have to do alot of owrk even for those simple number changes they do on skills. You can argue if this is true or not, but let me just remind you of Precision Shot's old bug. Introduced in the Jan 28th 2010 skill update. All of a sudden it removed stances... it just did! really all they intented to do was change the numbers and add an aftercast. There are more examples like this (Brace Yourself, anyone?). If just changing numbers can bring unexpected side effects like that, I don't thinking making an army of ninja's raise from my corpse when I use Deadly Paradox while dead is going to be an easy job.

For changing you primary proffession I'm just going to give a simple response....

....No




tl;dr
* I want to rob Tolkano now.
* Liking a few of your ideas, but they need more thought
* You make it sound way to easy

I expect a lot of this kind of stuff to get into GW2. GW1, not so much. You can make all the cool skills and mechanics that you want, but if we don't get new missions + content, what's the point?

new content is everything. You can change skills to make it more challenging, but it will not revitalize GW.

Regarding changing skills, why don't they give PvE foes PvE-only skills? That should be relatively easy to implement. Pain Inverter, Ebon Vanguard Assassin etc...

Yes plz :P

Eles need some love for HM

Agreed. If the devs were going to spend the time to do this right, I'd like to see them go the Peacekeeper route:

1. Give enemies two classes.
2. Have each enemy spawn with one of a few pre-made builds.

Let's say I'm staring down a group of Afflicted in HM. With the OP's plan in place, the Rits are still going to be the primary healers, the Monks are going to be smiters with some prot, the Warriors are going to be kd hammer wariiors, etc. Basically, the Elite skill and stat distribution are setting the tone of the build, and any random skills that get thrown in, even if they do happen to have some synergy with the rest of the team, are very unlikely to make me change my strategy.

Now, using the Peacekeeper model, I'm going to have to be ready for that Rit to drop an offensive spirit nest, or to heal, etc. The Monk may stick to smiting, or he may be healing full blast. The Ranger may be an annoyance with BHA, or he may be an AoE threat with splinter barrage. I won't know the team dynamic until I engage, and then I'll have to adapt quickly.

The downside, of course, is that it would take a lot of work to set up all those builds. But facing those Peacekeepers and not knowing my immediate target order was pretty refreshing. Adding a few random skills won't accomplish the same thing.

It would be nice to see a combination of these ideas, maybe. Say, give more organized and intelligent groups of foes (Charr, Mursaat, Stone Summit, White Mantle, Centaurs) the Peacekeeper model, but give the more mundane mobs the random skill addition model. So, vanquishing Iron Horse Mine, for instance, the Dwarves could get the full Peacekeeper treatment, but the Minotaurs, Dryders, and Ettins could just get a few random skills added.

Overall great but really you can't expect most if any of these changes this late into GW and especially when GW2 release doesn't seem that far off.

None of that will happen. You'd get farther making your own version of Guild Wars from scratch these days then waiting for them to take it seriously again.

To be pedantic: some of it has happened. The Peacekeepers progressed mob composition and difficulty another level past GW:EN's enemies (specifically the Charr).

Excellent post, it is apparent that you put alot of work into thinking of these ideas and writing this up. Good Job

Great post OP, I'm in favor of randomized builds. It's tiring facing the same old build. So seeing something like this would be great.

randomized monster skills would promote balanced, versatile groups instead of one trick pony gimmicks which abuse static AI... I support 100%.

Will it happen? I can almost guarantee the answer is no.

Ramdomized skills? good, it would be nice, maybe this could be a HM feature. With unknown builds on the foes, there is fewer space for cookie cutter builds. Groups will have to be prepared for everything: Spiking, Pressure, Hex, Conditions, and so son..

Tolkano skins? nice idea. Even in PVP they're should be at lower cost, Zcoin wise. Its pretty stupid pay over 30 silver zcoin for a single, non exotic skin. Maybe there should be a crossover-like feature that could allow these to be bought in PVP and brought to PVE.

Community ideas? Sure. And to avoid spamming ANets office with garbage, there should be a system where the fanbase could vote for the best, and only then, these should be taken to the appreciation of ANET. The community itself would tell what they want to see ingame.

Targeted loot: hm...well, I agree we need nicer shinnies..its like...it becomes quickly frustrating to roam to a zone, killing dozens of foes and get crappy skin, non-max, white stuff as boss drop. I believe there should be better rewards outsite elite areas. Theres no reason to get a bigger challenge with the rewards we already have.

PVE Skills - I dont see they need some change right now.

The only thing I really dislike on these is that change primaries stuff. It simply doesn't make any sense at all.

I really enjoyed reading the topic post. Good job, there are alot of creative ideas there.

I like the idea of having more random skins dropping and random skill bars for foes. And, the whole recycling thing got me thinking. Wouldnt it be nice if you could take the Henchmen in our guild hall and HA to PvE areas that allow lvl 20 henchies?

This is clever, although there is a limiting condition. If the gimmick is still faster than balanced even though there is some chance > 0 of gimmick failure, people will still gimmick. So you still have to keep a lid on the power of gimmick builds.

This just substitutes one form of grind for another form of grind. It would promote teamplay, but we're already doing that with UW, FoW and DoA gimmick. The problem is, was, and always will be the drop system.

This isn't going to excite people. The skins have to be rare AND considered attractive AND be useful weapons to get attention.

Yes, you are correct that ANet is silly not to do this. Artists are expensive. Anything that contracts out work is a good thing, as far as the developer is concerned.

The monsters are stupid. We are smart. Anything that makes us more powerful than the monsters in any way is not a good thing. The whole point of having monsters that are stronger than us is to force us to come up with clever solutions to the problem. PvE is far more fun when there is new content for people to figure out how to beat. Making players more powerful just shortens that learning curve when we are fortunate enough to have new content. That decreases enjoyment.

I think people would find that the cheap +10 armor and +25 health from playing Derv would trump runes for most applications. For any job relying solely on primary skills and PvE skills, people would insist on Dervs. You don't want that.

You have some good suggestions, but you have not thought them all the way through. The randomized build idea is the strongest idea with the furthest-reaching implications. And you're correct that ANet still hasn't figured out how to leverage the community to the fullest extent possible.