I, like Amand, who posted earlier have also had issues with NCsoft, not GUILD WARS but NCsoft in particular. I have found the fastest and probably most effective way to get their attention is to contact the Better Business Bureau of Austin, TX.
If your account has been banned, charges not being processed properly ..etc. contact them through the online complaint system and they will act fast and you will get a response much faster than using the NCsoft contact website. I don't even mess with the NCsoft site. Whenever there is something wrong I immediately contact the BBB.
By also getting the BBB involved you lay a framework for any future legal action you may wish to pursue.
https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx
Currently NCsoft has a rating of C- from the BBB......
Good Luck to everyone in your dispute resolution.
BBB and NCsoft
Perpetua Gale
Killed u man
Can someone confirm this is legit? I fail to see how a company would make profit by doing the support for you.
Nonetheless, if it works, it's going to have ALOT of succes here on these forums.
Edit: Going from google, aswell as reading various articles, this seems to be legit.
How exactly is the form filled?
Is the file complaint focused against Anet or NCSoft? Are they located in US, or Asia (Headoffice was in Korea?)?
I already get stuck on the first page. Am I a member of the defence bla bla, wth?
Nonetheless, if it works, it's going to have ALOT of succes here on these forums.
Edit: Going from google, aswell as reading various articles, this seems to be legit.
How exactly is the form filled?
Is the file complaint focused against Anet or NCSoft? Are they located in US, or Asia (Headoffice was in Korea?)?
I already get stuck on the first page. Am I a member of the defence bla bla, wth?
Perpetua Gale
Of course it is legit..... google BBB of Austin Texas..... follow their links and they will direct you to a secure process... confirm it yourself...otherwise you will need to confirm the person who you asked to confirm....
LOL... the BBB is a non-profit org..they are there to solve problems you have not to make money...they get millions in federal and state grants to help consumers...this is what they do...and they do it for free!
LOL... the BBB is a non-profit org..they are there to solve problems you have not to make money...they get millions in federal and state grants to help consumers...this is what they do...and they do it for free!
Star Gazer
The better business bureau is legit. It handles complaints all the time. Never thought of using it for games though...
cosyfiep
the only problem I forsee is that NCsoft is based in Korea, does the bbb have jurisdiction to do anything over there?
Jenn
I strongly urge people to proceed with caution in matters like this.
The BBB is a legitimate organization, and their services should not be abused. To file a complaint, you should absolutely make sure you have a very good reason. There's a line between general dislike of a game and the belief that you, or a group of people have somehow been genuinely 'victimized' by a company's actions.
The BBB is a legitimate organization, and their services should not be abused. To file a complaint, you should absolutely make sure you have a very good reason. There's a line between general dislike of a game and the belief that you, or a group of people have somehow been genuinely 'victimized' by a company's actions.
Slasher of Darkness
Yeah, BBB is legit, the U.S. Knight Online community made some complaints there, against the company K2. But afaik no help was received. But as Jenn said, be careful.
MisterB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosyfiep
the only problem I forsee is that NCsoft is based in Korea, does the bbb have jurisdiction to do anything over there?
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Black Metal
I've used BBB before for shoddy contractors. As for filing complaints against NCSoft, I'm no lawyer, but if they have any business interests in the county that it's being filed in (as opposed to their main hq), I'd imagine they can take some sort of action, if warranted. At the very least, hearing from the BBB will get their attention.
I say if you have a legitimate issue, and you are getting the run around from support, file a complaint. As complaints pile up, they will attract some negative attention from agencies they'd probably prefer to be in good standing with.
edit: I'm loling at people who never heard of the BBB, though if they are 4 years old or are living in another country, then I understand
I say if you have a legitimate issue, and you are getting the run around from support, file a complaint. As complaints pile up, they will attract some negative attention from agencies they'd probably prefer to be in good standing with.
edit: I'm loling at people who never heard of the BBB, though if they are 4 years old or are living in another country, then I understand
Killed u man
For those who know my case, would it be worth for me trying this?
I don't care too much about effort, I got all the time in the world, but are there any consequences to this? I'm willing to step to court, but how far do they thrive this?
If it turns out they won't be able to do anything for me, will I be able to get prosecuted by NCSoft?
I just want to make sure that by taking this route to try and get my acount unbanned, I'm not digging a hole for myself which might have severe real life consequences.
I do believe I have a strong case, as many other people stated in my previous thread, but is there any risk involved towards me?
I don't care too much about effort, I got all the time in the world, but are there any consequences to this? I'm willing to step to court, but how far do they thrive this?
If it turns out they won't be able to do anything for me, will I be able to get prosecuted by NCSoft?
I just want to make sure that by taking this route to try and get my acount unbanned, I'm not digging a hole for myself which might have severe real life consequences.
I do believe I have a strong case, as many other people stated in my previous thread, but is there any risk involved towards me?
Winterclaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosyfiep
the only problem I forsee is that NCsoft is based in Korea, does the bbb have jurisdiction to do anything over there?
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Hyperventilate
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jenn
I strongly urge people to proceed with caution in matters like this.
The BBB is a legitimate organization, and their services should not be abused. To file a complaint, you should absolutely make sure you have a very good reason. There's a line between general dislike of a game and the belief that you, or a group of people have somehow been genuinely 'victimized' by a company's actions. |
Just because you go to the BBB does not mean anything will change. Be careful with this, however.
Gift3d
Only serious issues, like getting a permaban when you're legitimately innocent, and not getting the help you need from support regarding said issue, somehow... then i guess BBB would be a decent idea for a last resort.
So Borat, you're still shit outta luck.
So Borat, you're still shit outta luck.
Killed u man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
Only serious issues, like getting a permaban when you're legitimately innocent, and not getting the help you need from support regarding said issue, somehow... then i guess BBB would be a decent idea for a last resort.
So Borat, you're still shit outta luck. |
I have no doubt I'm innocent, but you never know how these things play out. (Innocent people have gotten death sentence before) What are the actual risks in case something goes wrong, and if so, what can really go wrong?
If it turns out NCSoft can convince them I wasn't innocent, is BBB in their right to sue me?
snaek
Quote:
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Originally Posted by perpetua gale
Currently NCsoft has a rating of C- from the BBB......
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by killed u man
If it turns out NCSoft can convince them I wasn't innocent, is BBB in their right to sue me?
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Killed u man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by snaek
was anyone else curious about this bit? what are the ratings of some other well-known companies? (gaming ones in particular)
cute. honestly, if you have to ask this question, then don't bother with the bbb. |
All I have are some official statements from Gaile Gray which she can modify at any given time, aswell as my word. I do not physically own any proof that I'm innocent. Neither does NCSoft that I am guilty, but they still have all the logs, etc...
If it's going to be my word against theirs, I can't see me winning them. I'm one person, they are a global company with lawyers and people hired to deal with this shit.
So yes, it is a good question to ask. Even if they said you got banned for being a [insert racist word], you still gotta be able to proof they said that, which you wont.
Question still stands, what could the consequences be?
MisterB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I do not physically own any proof that I'm innocent.
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Killed u man
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MisterB
Don't waste your time.
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EDIT: On closer insight, does anyone of you actually have any clue what you're talking about?
Is there anyone here with an understanding of the policies of these companies and/or the American Law. Concidering I'm from Europe, does it apply to me?
coil
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Does that go for anything game related? Why should I not waste my time. Can people start being a bit more specific?
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so you basically stuck that char accountwide, so they cant just delete the character (since the titles stay in hom), they have to delete the account.
don't waste your time.
Killed u man
I dind't stick it to HoM. I dind't add anything to HoM yet for that matter. The character could have gotten subject to deletion.
I also recently found the case of another person, who WAS personally involved in getting these exploited items into Pre-Searing getting permabanned aswell. He, however, somehow convinced Anet to give him his acount back, and only strip the character in question of every item.
I also recently found the case of another person, who WAS personally involved in getting these exploited items into Pre-Searing getting permabanned aswell. He, however, somehow convinced Anet to give him his acount back, and only strip the character in question of every item.
majoho
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I do believe I have a strong case, as many other people stated in my previous thread...
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I didn't notice people said you had a strong case... most people in that thread said the opposite.
Infanta
I can't believe people are going to waste their time crying to the BBB because they got their GW account banned...
Perpetua Gale
Firstly... Ncsoft has their American offices in Austin..this is where your issue is to be filed with.
As far as what issues they will help you with, I would NOT take any random post telling you it is legitimate or not.... file your complaint..it is a very easy walk through on their site in Austin, and let the BBB decide what they can do for you.
Remember, the BBB is a non profit organization the more people they help the more money they get from the government.... helping you makes them money!
I doubt they will do much for you if someone scammed you for a run somewhere... but hey you never know.
If NCsoft is not addressing your issue and you feel it is legit contact the BBB it will get their attention real fast. At least it has for me..:~)
FYI someone ask what are some other company grades..... I did see that Activision had a score of D-..... ouch.
As far as what issues they will help you with, I would NOT take any random post telling you it is legitimate or not.... file your complaint..it is a very easy walk through on their site in Austin, and let the BBB decide what they can do for you.
Remember, the BBB is a non profit organization the more people they help the more money they get from the government.... helping you makes them money!
I doubt they will do much for you if someone scammed you for a run somewhere... but hey you never know.
If NCsoft is not addressing your issue and you feel it is legit contact the BBB it will get their attention real fast. At least it has for me..:~)
FYI someone ask what are some other company grades..... I did see that Activision had a score of D-..... ouch.
Ariovist Lynxkind
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infanta
I can't believe people are going to waste their time crying to the BBB because they got their GW account banned...
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Sidenote: I usually purchase stuff through the GW store via visa debit card. seems to be much better going through there than through the NCSoft site, which makes me wonder if that one is being run by Anet itself.
Infanta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind
If it is for so-called fraudulent reasons (and no such thing took place), then yeah, I would suggest doing so. They paid for the game and paid for/were paying for additional stuff, so they do have the right to, especially when the company themselves are being hard to deal with. Given that the OP has said NCSoft has got a C- rating, and given what happened in the other thread with PayPal it does say a lot about NCSoft itself.
Sidenote: I usually purchase stuff through the GW store via visa debit card. seems to be much better going through there than through the NCSoft site, which makes me wonder if that one is being run by Anet itself. |
A game company has the right to ban your account for any reason they see fit. You agreed to that when you signed up for an account. There is nothing the BBB is going to do and contacting the BBB because you're mad you lost some pixels and $40 for either breaking the rules are mismanaging your money is only going to make you look like a fool.
The BBB is for serious business complaints, not for trying to blackmail NCSoft into giving you your account back.
Perpetua Gale
Killed You..
The BBB will not sue you...that is not what they do nor do they have that capacity at least when it comes to a complaint/issue with a company.
They are consumer advocates. That means if you feel wronged by a company, brick and mortar or online, they are there for YOU.
This is a tool put into place to keep business honest.
While we may as individuals feel we are the only one with a problem...you never know until you file your complaint....it may turn out there are thousands of people being scammed/mistreated by a business with unethical/shady/illegal business practices...not that I am saying NCsoft is one of them..but thats what they said about ENRON.... so let the BBB know..let them do their job.
They are there for YOU the consumer!
The BBB will not sue you...that is not what they do nor do they have that capacity at least when it comes to a complaint/issue with a company.
They are consumer advocates. That means if you feel wronged by a company, brick and mortar or online, they are there for YOU.
This is a tool put into place to keep business honest.
While we may as individuals feel we are the only one with a problem...you never know until you file your complaint....it may turn out there are thousands of people being scammed/mistreated by a business with unethical/shady/illegal business practices...not that I am saying NCsoft is one of them..but thats what they said about ENRON.... so let the BBB know..let them do their job.
They are there for YOU the consumer!
Killed u man
I just send an information email to BBB information desk regarding the EULA and Rules of Conduct. I asked if there is any point taking it up with them, for whatever reason, if you were forced to sign EULA/RoC prior to playing the game.
I know forced is a big word here, but I explained that by not signing those documents, you won't be able to play the game, and thus in order to play the game, you MUST sign those "contracts".
I can't wait for the reply ^^
Edit:
My line of fighting NCSoft will be something like this:
If it states in the EULA they can ban a person for any reason they want, when they want, it might be concidered invalid by acounts of the American Law.
Hence, since they have no proof I exploited their game (Which they don't, cuz I didn't), they simply can't ban me on grounds of exploiting their game.
And because having LS and LDoA is no violation of the Rules of Conduct (Again, the trolls out there, it is NOT), and not specifically mentioned in either the Rules of Conduct or EULA, they have no grounds to ban me on.
I know forced is a big word here, but I explained that by not signing those documents, you won't be able to play the game, and thus in order to play the game, you MUST sign those "contracts".
I can't wait for the reply ^^
Edit:
My line of fighting NCSoft will be something like this:
If it states in the EULA they can ban a person for any reason they want, when they want, it might be concidered invalid by acounts of the American Law.
Hence, since they have no proof I exploited their game (Which they don't, cuz I didn't), they simply can't ban me on grounds of exploiting their game.
And because having LS and LDoA is no violation of the Rules of Conduct (Again, the trolls out there, it is NOT), and not specifically mentioned in either the Rules of Conduct or EULA, they have no grounds to ban me on.
Ariovist Lynxkind
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infanta
Fraudulent reasons? It sounds to me like the OP tried to buy something from paypal with no money in his account then reversed the payment. Other people are talking about contacting the BBB over being banned for breaking in-game rules...
A game company has the right to ban your account for any reason they see fit. You agreed to that when you signed up for an account. There is nothing the BBB is going to do and contacting the BBB because you're mad you lost some pixels and $40 for either breaking the rules are mismanaging your money is only going to make you look like a fool. The BBB is for serious business complaints, not for trying to blackmail NCSoft into giving you your account back. |
My reading of it: NCSoft has been reported for taking payments out and so Paypal have put it on their watch list. There are two possible reasons for this A) people playing P2P games pulling out and when NCSoft goes to take the money for the next month the players report it to Paypal and/or B) the NCSoft site stuff that happened a few months back that lead to account stealing.
Now with that in mind I am seeing it as legit players wanting/making legit purchases are getting caught up in this and having their accounts banned when it isn't their fault. In the case of the linked thread, the person was trying to get online goods, Paypal saw it was from NCSoft and red-flagged it, meaning that NCSoft didnt get the money and thus banned the person for fraud when it wasn't even their fault.
Black Metal
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infanta
Fraudulent
A game company has the right to ban your account for any reason they see fit. The BBB is for serious business complaints |
NCSoft does NOT have the right (in the legal sense) to ban your account for any reason they see fit. They do generally have the right to ban your account for any reason stated in the EULA, although the EULA can be fought in a court of law (not that it's warranted in this case, I'm just stating this in general). However, NCSoft does not have the *legal* right to ban your account of any reason whatsoever. They can't decide to ban your account because of your gender, ethnicity, age, physical handicap, or sexual preference (these legal issues go MUCH deeper than a POS EULA), they can't just arbitrarily ban accounts for no reason at all, and they can't legally ban an account because PayPal called their store a potentially fraudulent site. And if NCSoft won't cooperate in a timely manner (aka being given the run around) to lift an unjust ban, then by all means let the BBB know about this, along with all supporting facts and statements you can provide.
Now, it's each person's decision as to what constitutes a serious business complaint. Let each individual be the judge of this.
sixdartbart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Infanta
The BBB is for serious business complaints, not for trying to blackmail NCSoft into giving you your account back.
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I can't believe snotty little kids are actually trying to use the BBB because they lost their account for CHEATING!!!
These people have way better things to do with their time and resources other than dealing with trivial BS like this and saying you didn't cheat 1000 more times will not make it true so give that a rest already. {did I notice that your wiki id was banned or deleted for being such an abussive little twit on there?}
BBBs time being wasted on something this stupid as well as morons wanting to sue someone everytime they get their feelings hurt is what is dragging society into the sewers, the money that BBB will WASTE in even reading your complaint formerly belonged to the taxpayers of the USA so thanks a bunch for that.
May karma someday repay you in the form of some other moron suing your ass off over the stupidist possible thing that they can think of maybe they can even get you some jail time if there is justice in the world!!!
Hyperventilate
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
My line of fighting NCSoft will be something like this:
If it states in the EULA they can ban a person for any reason they want, when they want, it might be concidered invalid by acounts of the American Law. Hence, since they have no proof I exploited their game (Which they don't, cuz I didn't), they simply can't ban me on grounds of exploiting their game. And because having LS and LDoA is no violation of the Rules of Conduct (Again, the trolls out there, it is NOT), and not specifically mentioned in either the Rules of Conduct or EULA, they have no grounds to ban me on. |
B: They can look at the skills you've used. If you did use the hard res for LS and LDoA like you said you did, that's their proof. You had a skill that wasn't supposed to be in Pre. Enough said.
The BBB should be used for legitimate issues, such as being scammed by a contractor. Not for petty issues such as, "I was banned, fix it."
As I said, the BBB cannot unban your account. All they can do is bring the issue up with NCSoft. They cannot force them to unban you for any reason. There is a high probability that NCSoft will respond, "You're SOL, Buddy." And that's the end of that.
The BBB isn't going to be a miracle cure-all for any account related woes, since they can't actually DO anything to change it. Except possibly inform you how to sue the company, but I don't see how "I was perma'd" is a valid excuse for a lawsuit.
Kumu Honua
Lol. People thinking that the BBB makes any difference whatsoever.
EA has had a D (Last time I was looking into this sort of thing) for well over 2 years. Do you really think anyone cares? They look up the information and magically say "HOLY CRAP! They have a D rating! I'm not going to buy game X now for sure?!?!?!"
Right.
It's a placebo. You make a complaint to BBB and get to think that you have "Stuck it to the man".
EA has had a D (Last time I was looking into this sort of thing) for well over 2 years. Do you really think anyone cares? They look up the information and magically say "HOLY CRAP! They have a D rating! I'm not going to buy game X now for sure?!?!?!"
Right.
It's a placebo. You make a complaint to BBB and get to think that you have "Stuck it to the man".
Arm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Perpetua Gale
I, like Amand, who posted earlier have also had issues with NCsoft, not GUILD WARS but NCsoft in particular. I have found the fastest and probably most effective way to get their attention is to contact the Better Business Bureau of Austin, TX.
If your account has been banned, charges not being processed properly ..etc. contact them through the online complaint system and they will act fast and you will get a response much faster than using the NCsoft contact website. I don't even mess with the NCsoft site. Whenever there is something wrong I immediately contact the BBB. By also getting the BBB involved you lay a framework for any future legal action you may wish to pursue. https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx Currently NCsoft has a rating of C- from the BBB...... Good Luck to everyone in your dispute resolution. |
Clearly by the post, he is telling u how to deal with legitimate problems.
I for one would definately use the BBB if I had a problem with a company as I have in the past. The thing about the BBB is they actually LOOK INTO the matter. A company doesn't get a C- rating if they didn't do a bunch of bad stuff ;P
Really this whole thread is basically done. He gave some good advice, and all the whining about taxpayer's dollars is pathetic if u think about how much the government wastes on it's officials...
and the BBB is a great way to check up on a company. So you would buy a game from someone who has a D score...ok(dumb but ok ;P). Would u hire someone to fix your roof with a D?
Ariovist Lynxkind
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sixdartbart
^^^^^
I can't believe snotty little kids are actually trying to use the BBB because they lost their account for CHEATING!!! These people have way better things to do with their time and resources other than dealing with trivial BS like this and saying you didn't cheat 1000 more times will not make it true so give that a rest already. {did I notice that your wiki id was banned or deleted for being such an abussive little twit on there?} BBBs time being wasted on something this stupid as well as morons wanting to sue someone everytime they get their feelings hurt is what is dragging society into the sewers, the money that BBB will WASTE in even reading your complaint formerly belonged to the taxpayers of the USA so thanks a bunch for that. May karma someday repay you in the form of some other moron suing your ass off over the stupidist possible thing that they can think of maybe they can even get you some jail time if there is justice in the world!!! |
Kumu Honua
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arm
@the moron above.
Clearly by the post, he is telling u how to deal with legitimate problems. I for one would definately use the BBB if I had a problem with a company as I have in the past. The thing about the BBB is they actually LOOK INTO the matter. A company doesn't get a C- rating if they didn't do a bunch of bad stuff ;P Really this whole thread is basically done. He gave some good advice, and all the whining about taxpayer's dollars is pathetic if u think about how much the government wastes on it's officials... and the BBB is a great way to check up on a company. So you would buy a game from someone who has a D score...ok(dumb but ok ;P). Would u hire someone to fix your roof with a D? |
Yes, I would and have bought games from companies with bad ratings. Millions do: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/20/blizza...siness-bureau/
Roofer with a D? I wouldn't even know. I would have instead been doing my research on the company via checking with the city for code violations, lawsuits, and other factors that actually hold meaning beyond "I got fat eating at McDonald's. It's their fault."
sixdartbart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ariovist Lynxkind
If you actually read the OP, it isnt suggesting it for people who have been banned through cheating but through NCSoft issues, such as the account hacking and fraud which is NCSofts fault (ie being redflagged by Paypal) and not the fault of the user
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I just send an information email to BBB information desk regarding the EULA and Rules of Conduct. I asked if there is any point taking it up with them, for whatever reason, if you were forced to sign EULA/RoC prior to playing the game.
I know forced is a big word here, but I explained that by not signing those documents, you won't be able to play the game, and thus in order to play the game, you MUST sign those "contracts". I can't wait for the reply ^^ Edit: My line of fighting NCSoft will be something like this: If it states in the EULA they can ban a person for any reason they want, when they want, it might be concidered invalid by acounts of the American Law. Hence, since they have no proof I exploited their game (Which they don't, cuz I didn't), they simply can't ban me on grounds of exploiting their game. And because having LS and LDoA is no violation of the Rules of Conduct (Again, the trolls out there, it is NOT), and not specifically mentioned in either the Rules of Conduct or EULA, they have no grounds to ban me on. |
JR
If you feel like you have a case with the Better Business Bureau then go ahead and get in touch with them. I don't see why we need a thread discussing it.
I'd also reiterate what Jenn said: Don't waste their time.
I'd also reiterate what Jenn said: Don't waste their time.