For the future of Guild Wars 2

Still not added yet, though. We still don't have these things.

This was my original question nearly 3 years ago. Because Anet seemed to imply that making a z-axis eliminated CTM, yet I've seen that PWI and WoW both have swimming, jumping, flying AND CTM.

@Theocrat:
The quote is actually old, its from the May 2007 PCGamer article Anet put out to officially announce work on GW2. However, since there has been no comment to either clarify or negate that press release yet gameplay info is up, I think it may still be the case.

EDIT:
Oh, I see now they're putting in a war horn con to hint at their pressence in GW2. Why did they make a freaking shining blade scythe/spear if they wont be in GW2? Yes, I am bitter at you Anet.

Good so I wasn't the only one lol.

Geee, thanks.

I know this isn't a diablo site but you didn't have to write an essay on it just say what Blizzard did that was so great.

If it is indeed just patch 1.13 you are referring to I would have to say that that's just sad.

i would of rather seen anything merging GW1 to GW2 implemented in a bonus mission type update not changing areas to make use of map space.

on another topic, with the power creep type updates we have been getting as a solution to the real problems, and the lack of GW1 support due to the constantly used excuse we dont have the resources due to GW2, Anet may as well un-nerf skills and just let it be a free for all til GW2. whats it going to hurt? not much more damage can be done to the game. to fix whats currently wrong, its either means taking resources away from an already way delayed GW2, or just coming clean with the community and saying "hey we are sorry, we screwed up, and to fix the issues we sould of dealt with over the last 2-3 years would just mean delaying GW2 more. we cant fix everything but are doing our best to make sure whats wrong with GW1 wont happen in GW2."

Yeah I know those games have swimming but I don't think they have it in detail as much as GW2, they talk about it in past interviews (forgot source) that there will be a consumable which will allow you breath under water and exploration of the guild wars world is going to double because of under water exploration, they also said you will be able to fight under water. Also in recent news on guildwars2.com they talk about content like finding an entrance to a secret cave deep at the bottom of the ocean so that leads me to believe there's going to be a lot of detail to it, plus since click to move is like grabbing the ground to move while free floating in water you have nothing to grab on to.

*Looks at reply to old post*

*Looks through thread*

Okay, seems as though most of the issue centres around bots. For those complaining about them in the current game, as someone said in a previous post: Take it to the other thread. For those worried about them in GW2, A) The game isnt out yet, we dont know how the engine and client runs, therefore we cant comment on the bot situation, and B) Show me a game without bots. Yeah, there are preventative measures that have come out since GW came out, but the Live Team hasnt been the same since the release of Eye of the North due to the concentration on Guild Wars 2.


But when it comes down to it, as I have said and others have as well, Guild Wars 2 will be a different beast compared to Guild Wars. Someone said Apples and Oranges before, the better analogy would be Guild Wars is the Apple, GW2 is the genetically modified mutant cousin of that Apple. I would rather Anet focus on making that Apple the best that it can be rather than on trying to cut the rot out of the normal one that has fallen on the ground.

I doubt Anet would lose many customers (notice I said Anet, and not NCSoft), because even the most jaded ex-player will probably have a look at the game, and they will probably gain more because of the fact they dont have subscriptions.

Is it too much to ask for you to post your own opinion instead of making a collection of comments I've already responded to?

You know that's why they invented trials right?

You don't know how big the scale of the problem is if you can make a serious post like that.
Companies should be worried about negative PR.

I honestly don't know why you are addressing me with that. You seem to be yet another person who has misunderstood my posts. I won't hold it against you though.Solution: GW2 will do the same to trials as it did to CTM. WAKKA WAKKA

(And 2008 Beta Testing)They should be, yeah. Shame ArenaNet has always been a bit lacking in the PR department.

Um, wow. I typed out all that, and it came from my head... I guess it is my opinion... Maybe I shouldnt have spent those hours away from the comp, doing something else, just so I could get it in first....

/sarcasm

Actually, yes, it is my opinion. Another piece of my opinion: There is already a thread dedicated to getting an answer to the bot problem in GW1, don't hijack this one.

But, and I will admit I am sounding like a broken record, but that is maybe because I am just saying what Anet themselves said when they started making GW2: They have gone back to scratch and built Guild Wars 2 from the ground up, including the engine. Translation: It is a whole different beast to GW1 and they would have learnt from their mistakes the first time around, including dealing with bots.

Duh, but that doesnt mean they aren't going to go out and buy it anyway. Hell, I didn't even use a trial before purchasing Guild Wars. That isnt mentioning the fact that with what Anet have planned for the game I would say quite a number of those trials will translate to purchases


Uh, I do, just that there is a whole thread over here dedicated to that, And given A) As said the game is being built from scratch, and B) It will have the full force of Anet behind it, not just a handful like the current game, it is a bit early to be worrying about the number of botters in GW2. But looking at things realistically, how bad was the botting before the SF nerf? How bad was it before EotN came out? I am not trying to swat your concerns away, I am trying to look at the realistic picture. Perhaps my faith is mislaid in that GW2 will be a good game, but getting so close to release (7-10 months to me is close) I would rather they concentrate on making GW2 so this kinda thing wont happen, or has a minimal chance of happening, rather than pull resources to work on a game which, I hate to say it as a GW fan, is on borrowed time.

If companies were worried about negative PR from gamers a lot of companies would be out of business. Hell, a lot of companies who are the targets of the "negative PR" are still in business. By rights, we shouldn't even be able to play Guild Wars because NCSoft has gone bust, or at least Anet being absorbed into another company, with the negative PR they have gotten over support, Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, *insert defunct game here*, etc.

Because:
So I honestly don't know why you don't undertand since I took the five minutes to find the source you wanted. Just accept it and move on. You seem to be yet another person lost in their own prideful hype to the point that they forgot what they had even said. I won't hold it against you though, sir.

"Detail" has nothing to do with it. PWI has underwater fighting and swimming, I don't know whether WoW does or not because I've never personally played it, but I'd assume so. The fact that there will be underground tunnels and a consumable are not features of a z-axis, they are design features that are independent of whether or not the game has a z-axis. WoW and PWI both have swimming and flying and CTM. This indicates that a z-axis regardless of the specific designs does not eliminate CTM on its' own. Why Anet chose to dump CTM when it was unnecessary is beyond me. They probably just figured it would create a better play experience, although I happen to disagree.

Pardon me for my errant choice of vocabulary. I should have said that you don't understand the magnitude of the problem.

There's a difference between a game being bad and a supposedly competitive game being rife with cheating.

Stellar rebuttal.


Gee I don't know...maybe there's players out there that just play for fun?

Your assuming your definition and motivation to play is the generic norm.Max the titles and HoM....game over....QQ about it.

Not everyone thinks or plays this way.

Agreed.

I think the topic is highly interesting and there have been some great posts.What irks me is the inability for many Guru posters to realise that they are a tiny minority of the player base.

It seems dogma to many that having a few disgruntled players here voice there dissatisfaction with GW will lead to Anet and GW2 self-combustion.

Seriously.We are talking about a few thousand people, if that.

Regina must have giggle fits over some of the fantastical influence some players think they have on the future of Anet.

Wording has lost you again, my friend. I do understand the magnitude of the problem. I guess I am looking at things differently to you. You are looking at what is currently in-game and believe it will translate over to the new game. I am looking at the new game where there is a good chance they have learnt from the past and have worked on their not being as many bugs (to say none is to dream with any program). Mayhaps they might bring some people over to fix GW1 towards the time of or after the release of GW2, and some will cry 'too little too late' but at the moment I would rather their force be spent on eliminating V.1's problems in V.2

Aion is still going, isnt it? there are quite a few competitive F2P games out there which are rife with bots out there that are surprisingly still going. Would I like to see them address the problems with GW1? sure, but I know they have only limited resources working on this game and they are working heavily on GW2 and I accept that, but that is just me.


All I can say is lets hope they dont need to make a GW3. I am normally on Anet's side cause recent botting issues aside they made a pretty good game for 2 1/2 years, but I can tell if they did need to upgrade I can foresee similar problems with GW2 if they did. Well not so much the same, as the Live Team would probably actually be bigger, and hopefully the client stronger, but yeah they would still reduce the workforce so they can work on the new game.


Now this is exactly where I am coming from as far as my responses about PR goes. For every person here complaining, I would say there would be a good 7 just going in, playing the game. hell, of those 7, 5 probably dont visit these forums or know they exist

You only need to flip the GW2 purchasing decision of a few thousand people to make a decent support staff cost-effective. This assumes that GW2 releases within a year, and that you transition that support staff over at release.

Besides, if GW2 is a hit then they're going to have to train a ton of support staff. They're not going to turn all of the GW2 programmers into GMs (and retain them, anyway). Might as well get on it now, so that the GW2 experience is smooth.

Mediagenic/Activision (first incarnation)
New World Computing
Acclaim

Game companies regularly go under because they ruin their reputation with subpar/buggy releases and failure to support their products, leading to customers refusing to buy the next round of products. It's at least as common a cause of death as failure to keep finances in order despite continuing to release classic, top-selling games (eg: Infocom, SSI, Black Isle).

It would depend on the resources required to "flip" those few thousand though.I can't imagine that a fix for these issues would be easy or overly cost-effective in the long run else they would have already been implemented don't you think?

In saying it could be counter-argued that prioritising the smooth release of GW2 over responding to or fixing the current GW issues raised here would also have a positive and cost-effective effect in this regard.

Seems to be the path Anet have currently chosen.

Imagine being in the support team if GW2 is broken on release.

Bit of a catch-22 really.

I'm also of the opinion that 70-90% of the players that have stated they will never buy GW2, for what ever reason, will do exactly that at some stage (if not on the strike of midnight) as it seems to be a reoccurring "cry wolf" here.

As for the Opp, my 2 cents:
Once GW2 is finished I'd say concentrate on that game if it's for PvP and skill balance. At the same moment make GW1 a 100% PvE game. And continue to add chapters once in a year, unlocking new area's, new skills etc. Many players will be happy to buy them!

The truth is they haven't learned anything if they already had a fix for botting in gw2 they could easily go back and apply it but the truth is they don't, so history is just going to repeat itself.
Botting is a concern for GW2 and its something the OP cares about, the only way anets going to listen is if the news is spread out.

Your trying to say that disgruntled gw1 buyers are gong to buy gw2 at some point and then with gw buying system they'll be stuck with it but the whole purpose of a trial is to sample the game and it wouldn't take me long to walk into pvp and see the same problems as gw1.

I really couldn't care less about the full force of anet, the only thing they will be able to do is make random bans on people suspected to be bots or taking an abuse way by taking players words. They have no system in place to detect botters.

What? if your point was to show botting is increasing at a large scale rate recently because nothing is being done about it, then success.

They wouldn't have to pull resources for anything, like I've been trying to get through to you a step in botting prevention in gw1 can be reused for gw2 so its NOT a waste unless you see a gw2 run by bots as a great game to play.

I stand by it. You live in hope/faith that the gw1 players will buy gw2, you do know that gw2 is not the only game coming out?

Your version of play for fun is more like 5 years of inactivity.
If you haven't completed the simple content then what else could you have been doing for 5 years unless you were using gw as a cheap alternative to a msn.

yes they will because anet can do something like that and get away with it--but it doesn't necessarily mean that its good or right.

anet wanted to focus on gw2, and in doing so have abandoned gw1. it doesn't matter whether or not this was intentional but gw1 is abandoned and left to die. do you really think that after the release of gw2 they'll send some resources back to gw1? and even if they do, do you really think it'll magically somehow revive the dead game they abandoned years ago? unlikely. so what's a gw1 player left to do? either settle with playing an abandoned game they've become unhappy with the direction its gone in, or move forward on to gw2 like anet is "passively forcing" them to do. its win-win for anet in terms of $$$ with no repercussion for any kind of bad treatment to its playerbase.

It's pretty much the norm that older games don't get frequent updates, the ONLY slight problem is that Anet promised something - but really people are taking things out of proportion.

I hope there is a gutsy mod here that will deal with you as deserved - a ban would be well deserved for calling me a retard.

No wai?

lol

You really need to stop making assumptions and stating them as rebuttal.I couldn't care less what other players do.

I'm just more of a realist and fail to see GW2 facepalming based on the opinion of a handful of Guru posters.

I trust sales figures and market trends, especially concerning the non-subscription model, over your opinion.

Ummmm......re-rolling, helping out guild members, repeating content for challenge and enjoyment regardless of titles, farming, recruiting for my alliance, organising guild events, build testing and experimentation, helping new players and playing missions I haven't touched in years, trading, etc, etc, etc.

Your version of play for fun is maxing your mains titles in 2 months.That's not an error in the game, it's an error in your expectations, play style and attention span.

Enjoyment and game life span is subjective.If you can't get your head around that fine, but don't blame the game mechanics.

Agreed, I don't think it's good behaviour either, especially in terms of Anets lack of response.

I personally wish they would just come out and say they can't/won't fix it so everyone could either move on or leave like they keep saying they will.Some honesty to the vets and player base here is highly deserved.I support that 110%.

In saying these types of complaints are rife on every MMO forum.

MMO's always have issues, and a passionate minority that will debate them.

Yeah keep the insults out of the thread, people can't take this seriously if you go down that path.
I know this a heated discussion about a tense topic but banter only takes away from the goal of the thread.

slight problem? i think anet has twisted priorities. they keep pushing out more and more broken content instead of fixing past/current problems. content updates are in a sense temporary fixes in terms of keeping players happy. like you said, they cannot afford to push out updates as often as they used to, so why are they continuing to rely on such temporary solutions? they should focus on more permanent fixes that have long-term benefits.

instead of trying to keep gw1 players happy until gw2 arrives, they should be keeping gw1 players happy. period. full stop. gw2 should not be in the equation. again, it just makes me think more and more that they truly do want to abandon gw1 and everyone to do the same, buying gw2 when it releases.

Yeah and I trust that unless some bot prevention measures are taken before gw2 then any review site which examines the game a month or so after the release when all the omg hype has died down will see that its a game where bots rule and are completely unpunished by anet because they have NO WAY to tell who's a bot and who's not. If you cant see that's a problem in desperate need of attention I'm not sure what kind of competitive game your looking for. The reason why I originally bought gw1 was because of the graphics and the reason I'm here now is because I've been here for so long, if anet wants to throw away there player base I will have no problem finding another game coming out that has the same if not better graphics than gw and doesn't use the overused medieval magic genre of mmorpg.

First off the 2 months was done on my main character, I was able to get a full set of characters through the game which I took my time with but still got done in less than a couple years.
You just listed all the top waste of time and money in the game, this is a competitive game that gives achievements and rewards them, its an error in your expectations, play style and attention span to expect the game to be anything different than what it is.

Contradict much?


No it's not, because it is a different game for me, you, and anyone else that plays it, that's the whole point.

It's optional to be competitive, not a requirement.

What you consider a "waste"of time is hugely enjoyable for many players who have easily spent 5 years doing it and loving every moment.

You seem unable to grasp the simple concept of subjective enjoyment.

Anyway it's all bit cyclic now and I'd rather not clutter the thread.

Take it easy.

In the post it says it took me 2 months to get all the pve titles on my main, the second post says it took 2 months to get all the pve titles on my main character. Where's the contradiction?

The only thing that makes this game different is a z-axis, the rest is the same anet trying to get the same population and more to buy and play there game.

Its not an option its the way its supposed to be played, you can pick up any online game and talk and interact with other people but that isn't doing what the game is designed to do, playing for fun is great and the titles were designed to reward you for that as long as your not doing the same thing for too long. I enjoy helping out new players in my spare time with faction missions but in no way do I consider myself more experienced by doing the same thing over again. Your form is picking up any online game and talking in the chat room and you feel like you actually playing the game? lol guess you must think being on guru is playing right now.

If you can't bring any factual ideas to the main topic of this thread instead of clinging to false hope then a break sounds good for you.

Wouldn't that make perfect fiscal sense in a non-subscription model?

Different engine, different code. Who is to say that a fix for GW will be able to be applied to GW2? Who is to say those loopholes will be there in GW2. The current situation is that those creating the bots have found weaknesses and have taken advantage of their being little to no support from Anet's side to take care of it. GW2 will have a lot more support behind it, and they will have no doubt noticed the botting problem in GW1, even if they seemingly arent doing anything about it, and will fix things as far as the GW2 code goes

On the other hand, being such a new game, those problems might not have suck in yet. Unless of course you are planing on getting like a dozen 14 day/10 hour trials. You would be surprised at what gets missed in such a short time.

Tried using the /report function? Not to mention having the full force of Anet behind it means more people to weed out the bots. And how do you know GW2 wont have such a system?

Actually, that is exactly what I was intending to do. That, and pointing out the fact, at least pre-EotN that Anet had more resources behind the game back then instead of focusing on something else.

Sorry, but this is just like saying fixes for UT2K4 will work for UT3. Different engines, different code. There is a reason why they went back to scratch. Given that there is 7- 10 months left till it comes out, I would rather they use those resources on closing the loopholes in their new code than fix the old one so we dont get a repeat.

yes, anet is a business of and course they are out to make money. my point being at what expense to the players. even with their current situation, i think they could've still handled it better without sacrificing $$$$. most won't care once gw2 comes out. but there are a (small) group of people who loved gw1 and wish they'll be able to say the same about it a few years from now.

If you had fun playing your first couple hundred (or thousand) hours of GW1, when it was actually fully supported by ANet, you would be cutting off your nose to spite your face if you didn't get GW2 based on the period of time when they very openly said that they were moving the vast majority of their team away from support for GW1. I would hope anyone who had fun playing GW1 in its heyday would realize this.

Maybe because the permanent fixes would take far greater an investment of time than they're willing to devote? Hmm? Maybe because these kinds of content patches are more useful and fun for the vast majority of players than fixing botting would be? If ANet took 3 months and had their Live Team just work on fixing botting, they might be able to declare "no more botting!" at the end of that time...to a resounding "meh...", "what, no content?" or "what's botting?" from the majority of the community. The forums aren't their largest consumer base, and these "temporary fixes" are keeping more people interested than fixing botting would. Sorry, it's true. I know I personally have been absolutely unaffected by botting, at least in any visible fashion. I'd still consider it impossible if not for the posts on this forum, because those posts are literally the only evidence I've seen of botting having a negative impact on the game, and I consider myself way more hardcore than the average player. Imagine what Joe Casual, who never visits a forum, would think if ANet didn't do anything all through the summer except deal with botting, he'd think he was being completely ignored! There are far more Joe Casuals in the game than forumites.

Um...why should they just be trying to keep us happy, for no reason at all? They're a business. Their intention is to make GW2 the game that GW could never be. You got 5 years of enjoyment (or 3, at least, if we're counting until GW:EN's release) out of the game. You got what you paid for, they don't owe it to you to continue keeping you happy indefinitely. The entire point of keeping customers happy in this kind of business model is solely so they'll keep buying your products. It doesn't benefit them in any way if you're content to run around GW1 forever, and it shouldn't be something you expect any company to ever do.

None. Absolutely, positively none. You got your money's worth, you're literally not paying for anything that they're doing now, or not doing now.

Sadly I wish GW was p2p, then we'd get some decent service.

15/mo doesn't hurt my wallet.

Alright so let me get this straight. By your logic anet is going to fix gw2 botting and there's going to allow botting now and forever in gw1 because they hate having the gw1 player base, and anyone who is now not botting or later is an idiot and they made the HoM not to reward dedicated old active players but just a way for you to get something extra in gw2 so when you go to buy gw2 you can be botting gw1 at the same time to further reward gw2 players.

Really now?
You don't know what competitive means, do you?

Bots are par for the MMO course. Same with gold sellers. GW2 will have the same issues. It's unavoidable. It isn't the fault of the ANET staff though. They have moved on to GW2 and there is only a skeleton crew still there. YOU(meaning anyone who has done this) are the problem if you have ever ripped someone off, used bot programs, scammed, duped etc. You are the reason that those industries thrive. Until the players start using the tools that the mods put in place to help halt these actions, ANET's hands remain tied up. I see the same people posting in here about this who refuse to report bots. You want your cake and to eat it too, and ultimately we are partially responsible as players to keep those things at bay, or at least do our best to help. If you exploit the player base, you are part of the problem and have no right to cast first stones at other transgressors. Unless you like being hypocrites of course.

If only this weren't the response to every single bot report:

There problem is lack of taking an effective stance against the bots in terms of banning to give them a reason not too.
I've never scammed anyone, I've never used a bot, anet ignores bot reports, I am perfect, what do I do?

@skyhigh: you contradict yourself numerous times in your post. aside from that, you are misunderstanding what i mean by "keep players happy". gw was a great game, and i spent $200++ on a great game. all that was required was to maintain the game, but alas anet could not do this. instead they have constantly introduced new things which broke the game. i'd happily go back to the gw of yesteryear, but unfortunately i cannot, because i did not pay $200 for a game program, rather i paid $200 for an account to access an online game of which the devs can do to it as they wish. whether the pay model is monthly or a one-time fee, i'm still paying for the account, not the game.

whether or not you want to justify that $200 for a "couple hundred hours" of gameplay is a good deal or not is up to you. but i did not pay $200 for a "couple hundred hours", i paid $200 for a game that i can enjoy indefinitely, otherwise i would have just paid $15 a month and cancelled my subscription when i got bored of it.

also fyi, problems started creeping up long before the introduction of the live team. it was only when anet had a branded "live team" that people could identify something to voice complaint to. the closest thing before the "live team" would probably be "izzy" bashing.

Izzy was actually pretty good, gaile always had herself on DnD in international districts with fans and talking to people like there kids with "the frog" but I've actually messaged izzy and got a response(funny because his job wasn't community relations).

^he received a ton of critique, but yea he was definitely more competent than the live team...just goes to show you the current state of gw.