Help Me Design an Order of the Vampire Hero Build

ashes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2007

Beertown ;P

RoP

E/Mo

Im thinking maybe Ghostmirror Light as a "self-heal" ??

Heroes tend to spam OoV alot, and that rly hurt their redbar

Myotheraccount

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

N/Rt OoV Hybrid
Fill optional with Mark of Fury, Weapon of Warding, Strip Enchantment, SoLS, DPS, Recup, Rejuv or anything you like, really. Main idea: OoV that uses a solid N/Rt backbone to support party (which should include a physical, obviously) with heals and physical buffs while also countering it's sac. Ghostmirror eats pressure for breakfast and also counters OoV sac. This build has an optional slot which makes it pretty flexible.

I don't use OoV often either btw. :P

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

12+1+3 Blood, 10 Smite, 8+1 SR
+5e (or 10HCT), 20%enchant spear | 20/20 blood focus

OoV
Blood Bond
Mark of Fury/Well of Blood
SoLS
SoH
Smite Hex
Smite Condition/Foul Feast
Monk rez of choice

Get an ER healer instead of wasting skillslots and attributes on a crappy, inefficient self-heal.

Also, putting spot heals on a guy whose job is to cast a spell with a 2sec cast every 6 sec is a dumb idea. There's a 1 in 3 chance he's not going to be timely with the heal because he's mid-cast on OoV.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
12+1+3 Blood, 10 Smite, 8+1 SR
+5e (or 10HCT), 20%enchant spear | 20/20 blood focus

OoV
Blood Bond
Mark of Fury/Well of Blood
SoLS
SoH
Smite Hex
Smite Condition/Foul Feast
Monk rez of choice

Get an ER healer instead of wasting skillslots and attributes on a crappy, inefficient self-heal.

Also, putting spot heals on a guy whose job is to cast a spell with a 2sec cast every 6 sec is a dumb idea. There's a 1 in 3 chance he's not going to be timely with the heal because he's mid-cast on OoV.
Nice! If not for the fact that I have another hero with SoH, I would use this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount
N/Rt 14 Blood, 10 SR, 9 Resto. OoV, Blood Bond, Optional, Ghostmirror Light, Mend Body and Soul, Protective was Kaolai, Life, FoMf. Fill optional with Mark of Fury, Weapon of Warding, Strip Enchantment, FoMF, DPS or anything you like, really. Main idea: OoV that uses a solid N/Rt backbone to support party (which should include a physical, obviously) with heals and physical buffs while also countering it's sac. Ghostmirror eats pressure for breakfast and also counters OoV sac. This build has an optional slot which makes it pretty flexible. Since the hero is spamming OoV every 5 to 6s, then that would compete with cast time and energy for healing spells. He is either going to be a poor OoVer or a poor healer.

If you really want to bring heals with orders, you should bring spirit heals like Rejuvenation and/or Recuperation.

majoho

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

I don't have a specific build for you also you didn't really say what how your and your other were setup so it's hard to give a definitive build.

One thing that comes to mind that could help with the health sacrifice would be to use a primary ele with "Aura of Restoration" / "Glyph of Restoration". Maybe you could use a water ele for snares or something.

The main problem is that for the hero to work optimal he will be spamming the OoV all the time so it would give the best synergy with 15+ energy spells with a 10+ secs recharge.

(or the obvious have him use life stealing skills).

ac1inferno

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/an...rs_Necromancer

Myotheraccount

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Since the hero is spamming OoV every 5 to 6s, then that would compete with cast time and energy for healing spells. He is either going to be a poor OoVer or a poor healer.

If you really want to bring heals with orders, you should bring spirit heals like Rejuvenation and/or Recuperation. What sense does it make to run Recuperation or Rejuvenation instead of Life on 9 resto? Recup will give you measly +2 regen on 9 resto for huge 25e cost. Rejuv is pretty meh unless you run it with more resto and Spirit Lord. Life is much better, it gives you massive partyheals and also helps sustain your minion wall when you run from mob to mob. Think before you post.

Also, my build performs both jobs well. Just what OP asked for; OoV with resto spells to help compensate for the sac. Default N/Rt bar has a few open skill slots anyway, one of which is Elite. Besides, by your logic you should bash your own build as well because it it neither OoV or a spirit spammer.

maxxfury

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

[DVDF] Gp

Me/A

Thats the old regen vs spike heal debate.
You can. 10 Resto doesn't make much sense because you won't hit any major breakpoints with it but you can.
I wrote this build with breakpoints in mind and 9 Resto is 5hp/sec breakpoint for Life. Best attribute spread is actually 10+1+2 Blood, 8+1 SR and 12 Resto. So I will change it to that..

Quote: You can bring Life too if you like. +2 hp regen over 35s from Recuperation is not inferior to Life's 5hp/sec over 20s, neither is rejuvenation's 8hp/sec over 70s inferior to Life's. If we only take health gain into consideration, Recuperation and Rajuvenation are not inferior to Life. But consider other factors; Life costs 15 less energy than Recuperation and helps sustain your Minion wall, doesn't lose health Like Rejuvenation does (you should know what happens to Rejuv after several party members have taken damage) and has considerably shorter cd. That is why Life is better than Rejuvenation or Recuperation and should stay mainbarred.
Anyway, you can easily take Rejuv and/or Recup with Life on that bar. Like I said. optional slots are there for a reason. You can fill them in with anything you like. (FoMF should be an optional too, lolres)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Both have their pros and cons. And there is no reason why you can't bring all 3 of them either with extra slots to spare.

The point is you shouldn't be bringing spot heals with OoV. No reason why you shouldn't. Also don't forget that OP wanted an OoV Nec that could somehow cope with the sac by itself. That means some kind of spot heals and/or regen.

AtomicMew

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

I used to run OoV-resto quite a bit before spirits were buffed.

Now it should be even better. Loading up on spirit-heals is definitely the way to go. It's counterproductive to take more than one spot heal on the guy. 10+2+1/12/8+1 split works well.

Edit: I just realized who myotheraccount is. That explains so much <3

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
If you really want to bring heals with orders, you should bring spirit heals like Rejuvenation and/or Recuperation. No effin way. Not on that bar and not with those attributes. Costs too much for too little.

Life > Both (for his setup)

Dusk_

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

The problem with Heroes and single skill spamming builds is that they suck at it. Okay, maybe not suck, but they're not nearly as efficient as they should be.

If you want OoV up as much as possible, you have to specifically build their bar to avoid any other distractions. That basically means avoiding most (if not all) spammable skills other than the Order. If you put any spot heal skills in the bar, the Hero will prioritize those first, without exception.

Unless you like microing Heroes, of course.
Life has a tendency to die in the middle of a fight thanks to the nature of Hero AI that spams it on recharge. At this point, a large party heal will either be needed most or not at all.

Other advantages of life are that it has relatively low energy cost, shortest recharge out of the three, doesnt lose health and helps sustain your minion wall.

Quote:
And I actually want my minions to die during battle so they can cause more damage. You can bring all 3 spirits if you want to, so I dont see the problem and I usually bring Life if I go restore. That's what I been telling you all along.

Also, Life won't effect the performance of your bombs but it will help you get your minion wall from a mob to a mob. I hope you won't deny that engaging into a fight with a bunch of pre-made bombs is better than doing so without them. As a result, it actually enhances bombing.

Quote:
How did you move the discussion focus from the spot heals in your build, to the Life vs other spirits debate Igor? Not going to tell you, it will hurt your feelings.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
You can bring all 3 spirits if you want to, so I dont see the problem and I usually bring Life if I go restore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount View Post That's what I been telling you all along.
Sure, after you have edited your first post, added my suggestions of rejuv/recoup, and removed mention of spot heals from your original post that is...

Your original post was:

Quote: Originally Posted by Myotheraccount
N/Rt 14 Blood, 10 SR, 9 Resto. OoV, Blood Bond, Optional, Ghostmirror Light, Mend Body and Soul, Protective was Kaolai, Life, FoMf. Fill optional with Mark of Fury, Weapon of Warding, Strip Enchantment, FoMF, DPS or anything you like, really. Main idea: OoV that uses a solid N/Rt backbone to support party (which should include a physical, obviously) with heals and physical buffs while also countering it's sac. Ghostmirror eats pressure for breakfast and also counters OoV sac. This build has an optional slot which makes it pretty flexible. ..edited now to look like this:

Quote: It does. You will see that you retain considerably more minions between fights with Life than without. Or in theorycrafting terms, Life gives your minion up to 12 health regen thus increasing their lifespan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount
<link>Fill optional with Mark of Fury, Weapon of Warding, Strip Enchantment, SoLS, DPS, Recup, Rejuv or anything you like, really.
Quote:
Also, Life won't effect the performance of your bombs but it will help you get your minion wall from a mob to a mob. I hope you won't deny that engaging into a fight with a bunch of pre-made bombs is better than doing so without them. As a result, it actually enhances bombing. Healing only during 20s intervals is not going to help much for me going from mob to mob.

ashes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2007

Beertown ;P

RoP

E/Mo

10+1+1 Blood Magic, 8+1 Soul Reaping, 12 Restoration

Myotheraccount

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Sure, after you have edited your first post, added my suggestions of rejuv/recoup, and removed mention of spot heals from your original post that is...
I always had "or anything you like really" in my post. Those two skill slots are called Optional for a reason. But, since your reading comprehension is obviously lacking, I had to actually mention the two spirits in order to make you stop whining.

I also didn't remove any mention of spot heals. They are still there.

Quote:
Healing only during 20s intervals is not going to help much for me going from mob to mob.
If that were the case, then there would have been no reason for you to edit out your spot heals from your original post if you stand by your build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashes
10+1+1 Blood Magic, 8+1 Soul Reaping, 12 Restoration I presume you have another Hero with condition removal so I like it. Although you should probably use a major Blood Magic rune in order to hit OoV's 14 lifesteal breapoint.

ashes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2007

Beertown ;P

RoP

E/Mo

I think i would prefer the 35hp over the 2hp more lifestealing, now u dont get bonus for ur weapons

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount View Post
I always had "or anything you like really" in my post. Those two skill slots are called Optional for a reason.
I also didn't remove any mention of spot heals. They are still there.
It does. You will see that you retain considerably more minions between fights with Life than without. Or in theorycrafting terms, Life gives your minion up to 12 health regen thus increasing their lifespan. Life giving health regen? I think you need to re-check your theory crafting logic.

Spike heals are just different from regen heals when moving minions from mob to mob.

Myotheraccount

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
If that were the case, then there would have been no reason for you to edit out your spot heals from your original post if you stand by your build.
I havent. I made FoMF Optional because you don't need res and actually listed Rejuv/Recup as Optional in order to make you stop crying.

Quote:
Spike heals are just different from regen heals when moving minions from mob to mob.
Heroes don't cast Recup/Rejuv outise battle. Also, Recup's effect is negated when minions go into negative health degen and Rejuv does not heal minions.
Quote: My point is, you shouldn't have deleted it from the text of the post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trcvrs View Post
PwK with orders? Two weak spot heals? I think you need to theorycraft harder. You called MBaS and Ghostmirror weak. Maybe you need to go easy on theorycraft and/or improve your reading comprehension. Lol.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount View Post
I havent. I made FoMF Optional because you don't need res and actually listed Rejuv/Recup as Optional in order to make you stop crying.
Heroes don't cast Recup/Rejuv outise battle. I don't see how that is relevant. If you really need the life regen outside of battle, how difficult is it to activate it outside of battle?

Myotheraccount

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
My point is, you shouldn't have deleted it from the text of the post.
Delete what? Try to make more sense.
Quote:
I don't see how that is relevant. If you really need the life regen outside of battle, how difficult is it to activate it outside of battle? Lol. You amuse me, Daesu. I thought you feared microing like fire and even criticised me it. Now you are doing the opposite. No, it's not hard at all. By all means go and do it. Point being; Recuperation is inefficient in mantaining Minions because it gets overidden by Minion's negative HP degen and Rejuvenation does not affect minions. Furthermore, due to longer recharge of these spirits it is harder to stay in their range. Therefore, Life is generally superior.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myotheraccount View Post
Point being; Recuperation is inefficient in mantaining Minions because it gets overidden by Minion's negative HP degen and Rejuvenation does not affect minions. Furthermore, due to longer recharge of these spirits it is harder to stay in their range. Therefore, Life is generally superior. I dont know why you are so hung up on saving your poor poor minions in every post you made. Minions are not suppose to live forever and if you are that worried that they would all die out on you, then bring Blood of the Master and Aura of the Lich.

I usually dont bring Blood of the Master and I have no problems dealing with mobs. If you cannot survive without your minions then how do you deal with your first mob and low corpse areas?

So, bringing Life just to ensure minion survival between mobs is far from necessary. Also most mobs are not that far away anyway.

Myotheraccount

Myotheraccount

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

On the interweb. n__n

Desolation Lords [DL]

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
I dont know why you are so hung up on saving your poor poor minions in every post you made. Minions are not suppose to live forever and if you are that worried that they would all die out on you, then bring Blood of the Master and Aura of the Lich.

I usually dont bring Blood of the Master and I have no problems dealing with mobs. If you cannot survive without your minions then how do you deal with your first mob and low corpse areas?

So, bringing Life just to ensure minion survival between mobs is far from necessary. Also most mobs are not that far away anyway. Because Minions provide a great deal of defense and shouldn't be neglected. Bombing is awesome but it doesn't mean you have to blow up your entire wall. Also, more Minions before battle = more bombs = more uber damage right when you need it. It's not a question of whether my setup can survive without minions or not, it just becomes stronger with minions. If I feel like the mob I'm fighting is weak, I simply disable BoTM (if i take it that is). The reason people stopped running BoTM was because both Sabway and Discordway had life, the latter also had enormous minions wall that meant enormous sacs with BoTM. Majority of people don't understand that though, they don't run it simply because someone else said so.

As for Life, you don't bring it just for minions. You bring it because all of the aforementioned advantages as a whole.

In low corpse areas I usually just drop MM altogether and take more damage.