I'm sorry if this question has been asked before. I couldn't find the info.
In some team builds I've seen ER prot ele's with protective bond coupled with physicals using SY
I was wondering how those 2 skills work together though
Will Protective bond's damage reduction apply first? and then the extra damage reduction as a result of the +100 armor
Or will SY trigger first, reducing damage to a point where protective bond will not trigger. Or maybe SY reduces damage, yet not enough so that prot bond still triggers (basicly making SY a waste of a skill slot)
So yeah... how do they work together?
Protective Bond and SY
Lukyboy
Dzjudz
PB reduces damage.
Damage is calculated by effective dmg x defensive adjustment (meaning initial dmg x armor level).
So armor (with SY) is taken into consideration first and the damage is then reduced by PB.
Do the bonders bond everyone in the team? If so, SY is only used if the bonds are stripped. If not, SY is used on members who are not bonded.
Damage is calculated by effective dmg x defensive adjustment (meaning initial dmg x armor level).
So armor (with SY) is taken into consideration first and the damage is then reduced by PB.
Do the bonders bond everyone in the team? If so, SY is only used if the bonds are stripped. If not, SY is used on members who are not bonded.
FoxBat
More likely prot bond is just insurance for when SY! isn't up for whatever reason.
Bristlebane
SY doesn't protect the user which is probably the frontliner pumping adrenaline, so most likely a prot bond on this player only.
Eragon Zarroc
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Originally Posted by Bristlebane
SY doesn't protect the user which is probably the frontliner pumping adrenaline, so most likely a prot bond on this player only.
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Reformed
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
More likely prot bond is just insurance for when SY! isn't up for whatever reason.
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Lukyboy
Quick replies
tyvm!
tyvm!
Dzjudz
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Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc
he said that the monks were specifically bonding the ele's too though.
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ElnoreVarda
As someone already said, PB is for when SY isnt up (SY usually reduces the damage to so low numbers PB wont trigger). PB also take cares of armor ignoring damage.
PB in general PvE usually means ER bonders, so I assume thats what youre talking about. The ER usually bonds everyone, depending on area and what other defenses you have. The more often PB triggers, the harder it will be to keep up.
PB and SY dont synergize in any particular way, its just layered defense.
PB in general PvE usually means ER bonders, so I assume thats what youre talking about. The ER usually bonds everyone, depending on area and what other defenses you have. The more often PB triggers, the harder it will be to keep up.
PB and SY dont synergize in any particular way, its just layered defense.
Age
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Originally Posted by Dzjudz
PB reduces damage.
Damage is calculated by effective dmg x defensive adjustment (meaning initial dmg x armor level). So armor (with SY) is taken into consideration first and the damage is then reduced by PB. Do the bonders bond everyone in the team? If so, SY is only used if the bonds are stripped. If not, SY is used on members who are not bonded. |
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| The bonders are eles, outprotting and outhealing any monk out there. |
Dzjudz
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Originally Posted by Age
Bonds are only thrown on the frontines not the entire team and I would use lifebond.
They do not as they can't use blessed signet or even boon signet as Bonders are best done on primary Monk. |
Age
AtomicMew
Age: you quite clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've just been away from GW for a little while. So - I strongly suggest you try to get up to speed on meta before posting any more.
Luminarus
ER Monks are the most overpowered heal build out there... they can heal and prot probably better then a team of 8 monks could due to the insane energy, self heals, and damage reduction available to them from ER & like 3 enchantments.
Age
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Originally Posted by trcvrs
Age: you quite clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've just been away from GW for a little while. So - I strongly suggest you try to get up to speed on meta before posting any more.
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| ER Monks are the most overpowered heal build out there... they can heal and prot probably better then a team of 8 monks could due to the insane energy, self heals, and damage reduction available to them from ER & like 3 enchantments. |
Does this mean Monks can nuke now or play the role of an Ele.
Marty Silverblade
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Originally Posted by Age
Believe me I do know what I am talking about the rhe less energy you have as I have base of 48 the better the regen is and with -2 pips which you will have.
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| You will have hard time regaining it.it is better to use your elite slot on something else other than ER that will keep someone alive. |
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| It would much better for an Ele to be the resser with renew life instead so the Monk doesn't have to res. |
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Age
Bonds are only thrown on the frontines not the entire team and I would use lifebond.
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Negative energy generation is of no concern to an ER Elementalist when they can maintain a skill that should be granting them at least 16 energy every time they cast a spell (and they can easily get more than that). If they cast a spell every 3 seconds that becomes equivalent to 16+ pips of regeneration (17 with Aura and much, much more when enchantments start getting stacked everywhere and they start spamming).
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Originally Posted by Age
Does this mean Monks can nuke now or play the role of an Ele.
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All an Ele has is support.
Bristlebane
I tested ER for fun before, managed to maintain 14 bonds and -10 energy regen. That was fun :-) Although wouldn't have very practical with so many bonds of course.
Dzjudz
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Originally Posted by Age
Believe me I do know what I am talking about the rhe less energy you have as I have base of 48 the better the regen is and with -2 pips which you will have.You will have hard time regaining it.it is better to use your elite slot on something else other than ER that will keep someone alive.
There is no such thing as ER Monks and they could replace 8 Monks if they wanted to and I play and Ele as well and take me some time re gain my. energy back.It would much better for an Ele to be the resser with renew life instead so the Monk doesn't have to res. Does this mean Monks can nuke now or play the role of an Ele. |
Imagine this:
- being able to maintain protective bond (a souped up version of protective spirit that mitigates more damage and is everlasting) on most if not all team members without energy problems.
- being able to continuously spam other prots and heals without energy problems.
- being able to spam, literally SPAM SPAM SPAM, infuse health for uber healz without any energy or health problems.
Now imagine the build you posted saying it's better:
- you can't bond as many.
- you can only mitigate about 75% dmg with 2 bonds instead of 95% with just one bond.
- after a few bonds, all you can do for your team is idle, don't use any other energy intensive spells, only spamming blessed signet on recharge.
- you really really need another monk to make red bars go back up.
Seriously, can't you see any advantages to the ER infuse ele?
Erys Vasburg
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Originally Posted by Dzjudz
I'm starting to think you are just trolling but I'll try one more time.
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Age
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Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
Regen on an ER is irrelevant. When the ER Ele casts a spell, they'll get at least 12 energy back, potentially much much more than that. When you consider all the sub 1 second casting time spells they usually take, their energy is literally limitless. ER's don't maintain until -2 energy regen because they need to. They do it because they can, and could do more if they wanted.
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| ER means you can cast the biggest heal for free (both health and energy wise) on no recharge. That, in addition to PS/SB on recharge, counts for 'keeping people alive' as far as I'm concerned. |
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| The last slot of an ER Ele's bar is more valuable than one on a Monks. Besides, the argument is redundant because there are other midliners to put rezzes on. |
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Originally Posted byXenomortis Protective Bond can (and often is) thrown on everybody if there are two ERs. If there is only one I wouldn't advocate PB but it can be run and one should be able to maintain 4 to 6. |
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Originally Posted byXenomortis But why would they want to do that? Besides, Ray of Judgement is popular and I can't imagine it being significantly worse than the popular nuking options Eles have open to them. All an Ele has is support. |
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Originally Posted by Dzjudz I'm starting to think you are just trolling but I'll try one more time. |
No I don't see the advantage over infuse to be honest a Necro would do it better.
To all I played Monk all the way back to beta in The Halls of Heros.My Main Char. is a Monk as it says Profession Mo/
Then if this the case the Eles need some more balancing or ER does as they if this is the case they are over powered.
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Originally Posted by Erys Vasburg He's just legitimately ridiculous. Don't bother trying to educate him; the rest of us gave up years ago |
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Age
Protective Bond will cancel out if you lose to much energy form taking to many hits,It was and has been nerfed.It is why 55er stopped using it as it useless skill now.
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You're either a troll or an ignorant fool who refuses to read or think.
If Prot Bond was so useless than how is it I have been in teams that have utilised (and indeed depended upon) ER Eles that maintained Prot Bond on all 8 (or 12) people in Slaver's Exile, the Underworld, the Domain of Anguish, the Deep and Urgoz's Warren all in Hard Mode? Only in the Deep do I recall bothering with a Monk to help with healing (since the Eles lack any party-wide healing).
Obviously I was completely deluded.
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Originally Posted by Age
Monks get more than that with blessed signet which is not an elite and it is better to have low energy pool.Don't forget about taking Divine Favour into account.
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At 21(!?) Divine Favour, Blessed Signet grants a maximum of 32 energy (requiring you to maintain 11 enchantments) every 10 seconds. That is 3.2 energy every second equivalent to 9.6 pips of energy regen.
Compare that to the 16 pips I argued for the ER Ele casting once every 3 seconds.
Essence Snow
It seems as someone is still trying to argue the world is flat when the rest of us know it is not. There is a reason the ER has become popular...it simply out performs....plain and simple. Arguing that is not valid is futile since it has been proven.
A11Eur0
Hey Age: I'm building my ER bonder build and I went to test it out. No life attunement on me (had to get the skill yet)...I did it on isle of the nameless and used windborn speed to make up for it, and I was dropping infuses for 250hp constant, getting +25e from ether renewal every time. Ever get that from blessed signet? I didn't think so. I used to bond using the barrier bond build...and it was boring. I couldn't do anything BUT spam blessed signet even with life bond/balth aura feeding me. this ER build prots just as well, plus it has infinite room for huge heals and prots, practically for free. You can't get that from any monk bonder. It's not as fragile as the barrier bond monk. Having a large energy pool means bunk...because it's the AMOUNT of energy used and gained that matters. Having a low energy pool even on a barrier bond monk is bad, because that's less leeway for blessed signet before you start dropping half your maintained enchants. Now I'm going to go buy the rest of the skills for this build, toss out my monk's bonder builds, and laugh.
Age
That is all nice but here is the purden of proof if you knew anything about Monks.
I never use pvx for my own party builds.There have been threads about how bad it is in the Riverside Inn.
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Divine Favor is a useful attribute for healing and protection Monks, and some specialized smiting Monks. The inherent effect of the attribute is desirable, even without using any Divine Favor skills. With 12 points in Divine Favor, allies are healed for 38 additional health each time you cast a Monk spell on them. Divine Favour can make relatively weak spells like Dwayna's Kiss very effective: at 12 points in Divine Favor and Healing Prayers, it would heal for 89 health, an increase of over 50% - for only 5 Energy. Moreover, Divine Favor is often the only way protection Monks can directly heal their target. With a high Divine Favor attribute, a protection monk can simply cast multiple protection spells and heal allies for no extra cost (in particular, without the need to use dedicated healing skills). Note, however, that untargetted Monk spells such as Heal Party or Aegis only grant the healing bonus to the caster since they have no target. Primary Monks are effective healers because of access to Divine Favor. Characters using monk secondaries must work much harder to be effective healers. For this reason, they often focus on untargetted Monk spells, those which already heal for a large amount of health, and/or non-spell skills which do not benefit from Divine Favor anyway. Keep in mind that Divine Favor only works on Monk spells. Any other skills, such as Signets used on allies |
Dzjudz
Yes we all know what Divine Favor does. It seems you are blissfully unaware of what Ether Renewal does though. /thread.
Marty Silverblade
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Originally Posted by Age
That is all nice but here is the purden of proof if you knew anything about Monks.
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Age
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Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
No offense, but if you think Divine Favor makes a Monk better than an ER Ele, you really have no remote idea what you're talking about. Please explain how +38 health on cast (lets say, Dwayna's Kiss as it mentions in your quote) for a total of 89 every 4 seconds at a cost of 5 energy is better than 200+ health multiple times a second and granting the Ele a massive BENEFIT in energy. I would explain more, but you seem to be completely ignorant of anything people explain to you.
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I am getting a little tired of hearing about how great Eles are seeing as they will be in GW2 and Monks won't be.
I guess with that ER build that pretty much make Monks obsolete as we aren't needed anymore.Why isn't that ER build being use the Hall of Heros?Eles can't use Healers Boon.Who will be casting the wards?
I hope if they ever make a GW3 they reinstate the Monks and leave out the Eles as we can do the same jop similar to this Tempest and this Tempest
Iron Heart blessing
Icy The Mage
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Originally Posted by Age
I guess with that ER build that pretty much make Monks obsolete as we aren't needed anymore.Why isn't that ER build being use the Hall of Heros?Eles can't use Healers Boon.Who will be casting the wards?
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Dzjudz
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Originally Posted by Age
the Divine Favour Mechanic it is what makes Monks better at doing the jop.Eles don't get the bonuses we do.
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| There hasn't been one Monk poster in this entire thread. |
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| I am getting a little tired of hearing about how great Eles are seeing as they will be in GW2 and Monks won't be. |
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| Why isn't that ER build being use the Hall of Heros? |
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| Eles can't use Healers Boon. |
P.S. I am compelled to point out that the word is spelled 'job', not 'jop'.
Age
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Originally Posted by Dzjudz
A bonus of 38hp doesn't mean much when you can spam infuse health for 300+ heals every second or more, which no monk build in GW can do, period.
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| Irrelevant in this thread. This thread has turned into an ER ele vs. bonder monk debate, in which you are the only proponent of bonder monks who does not understand the skill Ether Renewal and the benefits of bonding all players with Protective Bond while simultaneously pumping out 300+ heals every second with Infuse Health. |
Ether Renewal vs. Ether Renewal (PvP).
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| Irrelevant. 300+ heals are plenty enough and the cast time of Infuse Health is 1/4 second with 0 recharge. |
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| P.S. I am compelled to point out that the word is spelled 'job', not 'jop'. |
Here is something for thought as I experimented with this it the exact build in the link.
This appling the enchantments
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8500/gw333.jpg
This when I applied all of them then lose them due to having low energy and -4 pip degen which resulted in the lose of 4 enchantments if I had my blessed signet I wouldn't have lost them along with MoI.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2268/gw334.jpg
blacked out name due to security issues.
Resha
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Originally Posted by Age
Sure Monks can and heal back for for the lose
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As for your experiment, it doesn't look like you were using the right weapons.
I don't have an ele myself, but if I can get a hero to maintain 9 bonds, and maintain its own energy (and health to a point) just by constantly spamming infuse with ER on... then I don't see how you could have run out of energy. You did something wrong.
But really though, is this some kind of joke? it must be.. it has to be.
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Resha
But really though, is this some kind of joke? it must be.. it has to be. |
Riot Narita
Seems to me, Age is simply in denial.
All I see is: "Noooooo! my precious! My precious monk CAN'T be redundant! It just CAN'T".
Despite all evidence, logic, and reason showing otherwise.
All I see is: "Noooooo! my precious! My precious monk CAN'T be redundant! It just CAN'T".
Despite all evidence, logic, and reason showing otherwise.
Dzjudz
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Originally Posted by Age
I understand completely about PB if it is so good why don't 55ers us it?
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P.S. In the 'See Also' section of the pvxwiki page with the build, there are links to a few youtube videos showing the build in action. I suggest you watch those.
Marty Silverblade
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Originally Posted by Age
Sure Monks can and heal back for for the lose
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| I understand completely about PB if it is so good why don't 55ers us it? |
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Here is something for thought as I experimented with this it the exact build in the link. This appling the enchantments http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8500/gw333.jpg This when I applied all of them then lose them due to having low energy and -4 pip degen which resulted in the lose of 4 enchantments if I had my blessed signet I wouldn't have lost them along with MoI. http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2268/gw334.jpg blacked out name due to security issues. |
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Resha
An ele will automatically heal back to full HP, then go back to half with each cast of infuse.
As for your experiment, it doesn't look like you were using the right weapons. I don't have an ele myself, but if I can get a hero to maintain 9 bonds, and maintain its own energy (and health to a point) just by constantly spamming infuse with ER on... then I don't see how you could have run out of energy. You did something wrong. But really though, is this some kind of joke? it must be.. it has to be. |