That! Is the question...
This page will give the Test Krewe an idea of what the GW1 Community thinks of this particular build. I for one think they're way too powerful for PvP because it can drain any target's energy pool out in just a couple of seconds while dealing damage as the same time. It essentially takes a player out of play for the duration of that Min Surge camping him until either that foe is dead, or they switch targets. Energy-hiding also doesn't help much. Mind Surge is brainlessly easy to use, like an assassin, except at casting and not touch range.
Mind Surge Mesmers (PvP): To Nerf or Not to Nerf?
Sirius Bsns
FoxBat
Mind wrack is absurd, it needs to be an elite and even then it is probably too much. It's easily 250+ damage plus edenial for 5 energy so it should not be a surprise after seeping wound. People are spamming overload just to trigger the damn thing.
I'm fine with a strong and semi-mindless edeny template being viable, this is closer to how they played in proph and everyone seemed to love that. You just need to chop out the insane efficiency of mind wrack.
I'm fine with a strong and semi-mindless edeny template being viable, this is closer to how they played in proph and everyone seemed to love that. You just need to chop out the insane efficiency of mind wrack.
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns
Mind Surge is brainlessly easy to use, like an assassin, except at casting and not touch range.
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fireflyry
It's not a question of whether but when.
In saying it's cool to see Mesmers have their OP moment in the sun like this although I think it's getting past foolishness to assume these are anything but intentional short term changes to make a minority class shine for a few weeks and create activity both here on the forums and in-game.
Seems to be the Anet trend and it usually works, all be it with a side of QQ till the nerfbat hits.
In saying it's cool to see Mesmers have their OP moment in the sun like this although I think it's getting past foolishness to assume these are anything but intentional short term changes to make a minority class shine for a few weeks and create activity both here on the forums and in-game.
Seems to be the Anet trend and it usually works, all be it with a side of QQ till the nerfbat hits.
athariel
you can call me noob and stuff, but what's so strong about mind wrack? it deals only 25 damage per spell so?
fowlero
You don't even need to watch for weapon swaps to be effective edenial anymore because of the dumb number of drains you have, meaning monks get RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed regardless of how well they hide energy.
So yeah, please RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it up.
So yeah, please RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it up.
NeferJackal
Quote:
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Originally Posted by athariel
you can call me noob and stuff, but what's so strong about mind wrack? it deals only 25 damage per spell so?
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Loose 10e from esurge+1e from mindwrack, take 100 damage from esurge and 25 from mindwrack.
Thats how it works like. It doesnt add 25damage from every point of e lost.
NeferJackal
Quote:
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Originally Posted by majoho
25 damage per point of Energy lost
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Kumu Honua
Just do the math of Mind Wrack + Overload Spam and toss in things like wastrels.
If you don't use skills you take 33 (42) from overload + 21 (26) from wrack, 84 (105) from wastrels + 21 (26) from wrack.
159 (199) armor ignoring damage in 3 seconds.
If you DO use a skill while overload hits.
33 (42) unconditional overload damage + 21 (26) wrack damage, 41 (53) conditional damage + 21 (26) wrack damage, + 21 (26) from the wastrels (Which you avoid by using skill)
137 (173) armor ignoring damage in 3 seconds.
You can also then toss on a surge at the end of that to trigger the boom from wrack and start ALL over again.
Removing the hex is only a very short reprieve as it's a 5 second recharge for wrack. The choice of using or not using skills is a matter of a measly 27 damage. So a damned if you do damned if you don't. The skills in question cost nothing to the mesmer and the mesmer has an ARSENAL of options to gain the energy back so they will never run out. Interrupting the skills are near impossibilities as they are 1/4 cast with the exception of the 5 second recharge wrack...
Facerolling, energy efficient, large armor ignoring damage. And that's just with 3 skills. Throw in things like VoR for more hilarity.
If you don't use skills you take 33 (42) from overload + 21 (26) from wrack, 84 (105) from wastrels + 21 (26) from wrack.
159 (199) armor ignoring damage in 3 seconds.
If you DO use a skill while overload hits.
33 (42) unconditional overload damage + 21 (26) wrack damage, 41 (53) conditional damage + 21 (26) wrack damage, + 21 (26) from the wastrels (Which you avoid by using skill)
137 (173) armor ignoring damage in 3 seconds.
You can also then toss on a surge at the end of that to trigger the boom from wrack and start ALL over again.
Removing the hex is only a very short reprieve as it's a 5 second recharge for wrack. The choice of using or not using skills is a matter of a measly 27 damage. So a damned if you do damned if you don't. The skills in question cost nothing to the mesmer and the mesmer has an ARSENAL of options to gain the energy back so they will never run out. Interrupting the skills are near impossibilities as they are 1/4 cast with the exception of the 5 second recharge wrack...
Facerolling, energy efficient, large armor ignoring damage. And that's just with 3 skills. Throw in things like VoR for more hilarity.
fowlero
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NeferJackal
Test it out yourself, it doesnt add that much damage.
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@ Queen, not when the opposing team has 3/4 of them.
jimme
blegh, constantly on low set as a monk, and when I swap to 40/40 to cast I get 2 esurges on top of that mindwrack.
recharge is way too fast on it.
recharge is way too fast on it.
Schnellburg
Energy Denial has always been a part of the game, it is just that you are just seeing it more with the newly buffed skills. Welcome to the new PvP meta.
This reminds me of the botting thread, your complaints really just fall on deaf ears.
This reminds me of the botting thread, your complaints really just fall on deaf ears.
Ranger Jaap
well i love the updates but i do have to agree that mindwrack is OP the rest is fine.
shadows of hob
Esurge is not the problem, Mind Wrack is.
Make MW 15 recharge and it will be just another strong build.
Make MW 15 recharge and it will be just another strong build.
Eragon Zarroc
yeah, mindrack is a little too much. throw it on ur taarget and spam e-denial and u get extra dmg and even more e-denial. can't keep mind wrack off at all cause of it's duration and casting time. they will change this soon, lol
Sirius Bsns
I think toning down the damage to something like 10 or less, upping the recharge to 10-15s, and cutting the duration down to about 15-18s would tip Mind Wrack back into balance if the current functionality is to remain.
Fluffy Kittens
Mind wrack seriously needs a nerf... anet really RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up game balance with this update, there are no serious teams in HA without 1, 2 or even 3 edrain mesmers. Same goes for RA... 4 of those mesmers would own any team easy.
Cuilan
Sure as long as the nerfs are PvP only.
Martin Alvito
Mesmer did not need an energy-denying non-elite Mirror of Ice that does big damage if it ends.
The Wastrel's Worry buff is pretty absurd in casual arenas. Minions are now worthless; an army can be annihilated in about six seconds. Pets are a liability.
And don't get me started on the Wrack/Overload/Wastrel's Demise combo. Including it improves just about any caster bar that is designed to output damage. 100 armor ignoring damage for five energy every four seconds (Overload) or 120 every eight (Wastrel's) doesn't suck. Last time I checked, every bar in the game uses skills, and not all of them are 1/4 second casts, so the condition isn't hard to land. Overload even deals AoE damage as a bonus.
You can heal through the Mind Surge bar if you hide energy and Power Drain the ESurge/Diversion. But it's ridiculous that you should be forced to take Power Drain just to function as a healer.
The problem isn't hard to solve. Revert Mind Wrack in PvP. Revert Energy Surge so that a quality player can interrupt the ESurge every cycle. Then the pressure becomes manageable.
The Wastrel's Worry buff is pretty absurd in casual arenas. Minions are now worthless; an army can be annihilated in about six seconds. Pets are a liability.
And don't get me started on the Wrack/Overload/Wastrel's Demise combo. Including it improves just about any caster bar that is designed to output damage. 100 armor ignoring damage for five energy every four seconds (Overload) or 120 every eight (Wastrel's) doesn't suck. Last time I checked, every bar in the game uses skills, and not all of them are 1/4 second casts, so the condition isn't hard to land. Overload even deals AoE damage as a bonus.
You can heal through the Mind Surge bar if you hide energy and Power Drain the ESurge/Diversion. But it's ridiculous that you should be forced to take Power Drain just to function as a healer.
The problem isn't hard to solve. Revert Mind Wrack in PvP. Revert Energy Surge so that a quality player can interrupt the ESurge every cycle. Then the pressure becomes manageable.
Zesty
MIND WRACK WARSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Just wait until people start using Price of Pride.
Just wait until people start using Price of Pride.
jazilla
PoP pushes this over the top for sure.
The Drunkard
ALL of the mesmer skills that changed in pvp with the recent update should be reverted. It boggles my mind how the Test Krewe thinks physic instability, mind wrack, or WW should've been buffed in PvP- mesmers needed love in pve only. Thank god that they didn't go through with physic distraction.
Martin Alvito
Price of Pride is not as useful as it seems. Once you have them drained out, the elite skill costs what it normally would. The Mind Surge bar will drain out a low set in a hurry.
If the functionality of PoP read: "Adds 1...6...7 to the activation cost for target foe's elite skill", then it would be devastating.
If the functionality of PoP read: "Adds 1...6...7 to the activation cost for target foe's elite skill", then it would be devastating.
Esprit
I only play in Competitive Missions like Fort Aspenwood, but the Mind Surge build is popular there. Fortunately it's not too game changing there, where it's only useful when pressuring monks who are healing around the Green Gate (Juggernaut, Gunther, etc..) or monks healing Turtles (Luxons). The quick resurrections and lack of DP keeps energy bars full in those quick skirmishes.
Zesty
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Price of Pride is not as useful as it seems. Once you have them drained out, the elite skill costs what it normally would. The Mind Surge bar will drain out a low set in a hurry.
If the functionality of PoP read: "Adds 1...6...7 to the activation cost for target foe's elite skill", then it would be devastating. |
MelechRic
Mind Wrack:
It's stupidly overpowered. I've messed with it over the weekend and you can tell how overpowered it is when in RA you get multiple 4-mesmer teams in the course of a few hours.
I've killed monks in under 8 seconds. If I have another MW mesmer on my team the monk can die in half that time.
Look for a revert/revamp within the week. Skill balances should be about making skills viable alternatives instead of making a single skill the only viable choice for a bar.
It's stupidly overpowered. I've messed with it over the weekend and you can tell how overpowered it is when in RA you get multiple 4-mesmer teams in the course of a few hours.
I've killed monks in under 8 seconds. If I have another MW mesmer on my team the monk can die in half that time.
Look for a revert/revamp within the week. Skill balances should be about making skills viable alternatives instead of making a single skill the only viable choice for a bar.
Bobby2
Thumbs down. I have no prob with mesmers being powerful but they should require a modicum of skill to play well.
Akimb0
Mind wrack shouldn't have been any mesmers skill. It should be mesmer hexes only. Then it's somewhat similar to soul barbs, only it doesn't trigger on enchants and has an effect when enemy energy reaches 0.
Oh and I don't think wastrels should have been AoE, I always find random people stood near me with it on them :-/
Oh and I don't think wastrels should have been AoE, I always find random people stood near me with it on them :-/
Woodelf Archer
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/i...t10439118.html
didnt see this thread cba typing out again
just my ideas on what to do about mesmers in pvp without smiters booning them.
didnt see this thread cba typing out again
just my ideas on what to do about mesmers in pvp without smiters booning them.
Terrible Surgeon
Been what 4 days now? If it goes another 4 days i swear to god im going to throw this laptop out a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing window.
mind surge +wastrels demise is like biggest roll face on keyboard build ever...at least you could block a sin with SW if you were a monk.....
mind surge +wastrels demise is like biggest roll face on keyboard build ever...at least you could block a sin with SW if you were a monk.....
Martin Alvito
Nah, the R/As were considerably worse. You could sit there and spam Jagged through a block skill all day, and they were capable of putting out a lot more pressure. Exhausting Assault coupled with a spammable damage chain was hacks.
You can Build Wars Mind Surge in GvG. I've seen it done on Obs already (silver capes beat gold, both top notch teams). I'd be surprised if Mind Surge wins the monthly. (The R/As DID win the monthly.)
In RA, it's absolutely obscene. I'll grant that. When every Mesmer jumps right on every Mesmer, you know there's a problem. The only thing that even begins to compare is Reaper's Mark at NF release. Even the 1/2 second Decapitate bug (which let you solo a monk from full to zero if you landed a Bull's) isn't in Mind Surge's league.
You can Build Wars Mind Surge in GvG. I've seen it done on Obs already (silver capes beat gold, both top notch teams). I'd be surprised if Mind Surge wins the monthly. (The R/As DID win the monthly.)
In RA, it's absolutely obscene. I'll grant that. When every Mesmer jumps right on every Mesmer, you know there's a problem. The only thing that even begins to compare is Reaper's Mark at NF release. Even the 1/2 second Decapitate bug (which let you solo a monk from full to zero if you landed a Bull's) isn't in Mind Surge's league.
SlimChance
I've played very little PvP with my Mesmer over the last 5 years. But the Mind Surge + Wastrol's Worry is OP in PvE!! Its way over the top!!
I can't imagine it in PvP! I like that it took some skill in timing and execution, not just mindless smashing keys. I like most of the changes in the last update, but some are just too too much.
I can't imagine it in PvP! I like that it took some skill in timing and execution, not just mindless smashing keys. I like most of the changes in the last update, but some are just too too much.
Emily Diehl
Heya guys,
Not sure if any of you caught this from our in-game chat earlier, but I wanted to post a recap so you have a heads up.
The team is looking into making some tweaks to a few skills, most likely before this weekend's MAT (they're going through testing now). Here's what's coming:
Again, all of this stuff is tentative, but the team is expecting these changes (or similar changes) to go live before the tournaments.
Just wanted to pass on the advanced notice!
Not sure if any of you caught this from our in-game chat earlier, but I wanted to post a recap so you have a heads up.
The team is looking into making some tweaks to a few skills, most likely before this weekend's MAT (they're going through testing now). Here's what's coming:
- In PvP, we'll be removing the 50% slower attack speed from Crippling Anguish, and making a few numerical adjustments to this as well.
- As far as Mind Surge characters go, we're taking a look at the ease of Mind Wrack triggering quickly. We're also expecting to make a recharge-related change to Overload. Lastly, we're looking at making Mind Wrack not trigger off of hexes.
Again, all of this stuff is tentative, but the team is expecting these changes (or similar changes) to go live before the tournaments.
Just wanted to pass on the advanced notice!
Skye Marin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Emily Diehl
Lastly, we're looking at making Mind Wrack not trigger off of hexes.
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Disabled Wastrel's Worry and Wastrel's Demise for Mind Wrack, and a lot of concerns are satiated.
Lanier
please do a split for mind wrack/overload. Neither skill is overpowered in the pve format and I am worried because you specifically mentioned that CA will only be changed in PvP but you didnt make that distinction for the mind surge skills.
Sirius Bsns
Awesome, Emily! Thanks for the heads up. It's very reassuring to the PvP community, and it means alot that you tone it down some. May I ask why you guys are removing the 50% slowdown on Crippling Anguish? What PvP format did it cause trouble in? The reason I ask is because, from my perspective, it's nothing more than Faintheartedness with extra degen and added movement slowdown, but with an extra 5e cost and over double the recharge [8 seconds recharge from Faintheartedness vs 20 seconds recharge from Crippling Anguish]. Was it problematic in GvG? In other words, I [personally] didn't see it as being overpowered. Thanks again for taking the time to interact with us and keep us informed.
Daesu
I know this was too good to last. PvE mesmers have always been nerfed because of PvP.
PvP mesmers have always been fine before this update came and now PvE mesmers have to pay the price again.
PvP mesmers have always been fine before this update came and now PvE mesmers have to pay the price again.
Smarty
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lanier
please do a split for mind wrack/overload. Neither skill is overpowered in the pve format and I am worried because you specifically mentioned that CA will only be changed in PvP but you didnt make that distinction for the mind surge skills.
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lustnlood
well isnt this something... i go away for a while... mesmers were screwed at that time... now i come back and mesmers are the new version of zomg iz dat a rapizt wiv a big bazooka?! hehe this should be fun till things go back to normal XD