Ventaris Changes

_Todeshand_

_Todeshand_

I <3 unconditional

Join Date: Jul 2007

Ascalon City Int. 1

Ashfords Last Heirs [olsq]

Hallo everyone,

Since today there's been some changes in Ventari's Corner, and nearly anyone I talked to about that until now has been of the same opinion as me: We don't need that change, and actually we don't want it, too. The old system, separated in High End and Sell worked good as it was, and we all loved it. Sell forum was for the "normal" stuffs, and if you wanted to buy something more special you took your look in High End. Now it's not very clearly arranged anymore, and it's harder to find threads with items you're interested in.

I'm of the opinion that this prefix system was only installed because someone thought "it's new, so it must be cool and good", but world isn't that simple, is it? I'm actually not a conservative person, but I think Ventari's was quite good the way it used to be, and I am sure there are a lot users who share that opinion.

So what I want to say basically: Give us back old Ventari's with High End and Sell. Please. Thanks everyone.

Greetings,

Todie



PS: Prefixes and blue colors hurtz my eyez, kk thx

JR

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

The prefixes are a very old feature of vBulletin, I promise you we did not succumb to 'new and shiny' syndrome.

The change was made for the sake of making the lives of Ventari's moderators easier - which it does. For you guys it gives you the option of being able to view all sales in one section, at the small cost of having to use the filter function when necessary.

If it had been a change made for the benefit of the community it certainly would have been discussed with the community. It was in fact a change made for the staff, to make their lives and the countless hours they put into maintaining the section a little more bearable.

Da Tru Legend

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Light of Honor [Lite]

A/

So a community-based forum has changes made to it that the majority of the community appears to dislike? If you can show us that the community approves of the change more than it dislikes it, I won't mind so much. But until then...

/signed in agreement with Todie

~Tru

Cleavage

Cleavage

Worlds Hexiest Man

Join Date: Jun 2006

[TRDR]

I must say I was very surprised when I logged on and went to Ventari's today. I noticed right away that the best sub forum on the whole site was now gone. I read the update posted giving us all the info we needed to make this new system work. Still I must disagree with the decision to combine the two sub forums. The system that was in play was very easy to use and understand. I know what the mods are saying as a former Ventari's Mod myself there were many user notes issued for members not following the rules and misusing the forums. I think its brave to go with this new system but I dont think anything will change for the better. There will still be members not following the rules and receiving user notes and bans. There were many low end "Shops" that the community knew to visit. With the new rules in place there will be no "Shops" and a detailed title must be used. It makes it difficult to list 100 + items in detail.

I believe Guild Wars Guru became the most used Guild Wars site mainly for the Ventari's Forum and how it was setup and used. Having separate sub forums to list your "High End" items verse your "Low End" items was key to the success of Guild Wars Guru. Maybe the idea that this new setup might make it easier for the mods might have been a deciding factor in making this change. I see that as making a change for the minority and not for whats best for the majority. If the idea is to give this a try for awhile and listen to feedback and then make a decision to keep the changes or revert back then I can accept that and see where this goes. Personally I see this leading to less usage of the forums due to frustration and poor ability of navigation to browse whats for sale. You are now asking the public majority to learn how to use forum options to filter what they would like to browse for. These forums have seen many issues in the past with slow loading. Will the site be able to handle the stress of constant filtering requests ?

Over the last five years the High End forums became special to many members. High End Trading has become many players main thing to do in this game. The separate forums made it easy to navigate through what certain members were selling. Now what you viewed an hour ago on page one may now be all the way back on page 12. I think these changes are going to be too confusing for the majority of Guild Wars Guru Members.

/signed in agreement to revert back to the separate forums.

~Cleavage

JR

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

All you have to do is scroll to the bottom of the page and change the filter to 'High End' threads only.

hurric

hurric

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

BC

i don't even use the site but i also disagree with this way of doing things. Since my work involves software, as a usability perspective I'll say that the most common things for users should be readily available and i believe a lot of people used that subforum. I personally almost never visited regular sell forum ever but always browsed the high end to see what's available. The extra clicks are unnecessary and reduce ease of use (esp since it's been like this since the beginning of time)

Also when you choose show high end only, there's no need to see the high end tag, because we already said only show high end only so the tag needs to go when you choose a specific prefix.

Del

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR View Post
All you have to do is scroll to the bottom of the page and change the filter to 'High End' threads only. All we had to do before the change was click into the section we wanted to. this seems to lack any practical use, and is a step down from simply having the two separated.

fenix

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

Funny, this semester I've been studying how society go through a stage of confusion and moral panic whenever there is change...

The changed system is just as easy to navigate as the old one. Filters are key.

Faer

Faer

La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Join Date: Feb 2006

If you apply that logic to the other side of the coin Del, you'll see that it saves the Ventari's Corner moderators a lot more clicks than it is costing the browsers. If your complaint is solely about the amount of clicking to do, you're on the weaker side of the argument.

I have no real opinion on the change myself, being neither a moderator of the section nor a frequent user of our Sell forums. It has upsides and downsides for everyone, depending on their point of view and browsing habits.

Neo Nugget

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

I find it convenient that the filter removes unnecessary threads from the batch (closed threads and what not) so that the user can focus on what they want to view.





That, in my opinion, greatly outweighs the "cons" of using this new system.

PowerRAV

PowerRAV

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Missouri (Central Time Zone)

N/

eh one thing I can say I like is easier to maintain 1 thread instead of 2 threads(high/low) with different bump times. It's just a matter of getting the right prefix and thread title.


EDIT: Were we always allowed to change the thread titles? I don't remember being able to before...

Mordiego

Mordiego

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2007

Pozna??, UTC+1

We Are From Poland [Pol]

N/A

btw:

wtf?: I don't have the option to sort the threads by prefix!

Why does only the original forum skin have the option to sort by prefix?!

Yang Whirlwind

Yang Whirlwind

~ Retired ~

Join Date: Nov 2005

Copenhagen, Denmark (GMT +1)

E/

Mine does:

-Martian-

-Martian-

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

W/

This new feature could be a nice addition, and I thank GWguru mods&staff to be always on the edge to enhace players experience while providing a free user friendly sistem that allows us to interact with other players.

But in my opinion this sticky thing adds just more confusion,if not done in the right way.

Let me explain this point.

Old ventaris had 2 sections: "High end" for 100k+ worth items and "Sells" for items worth less than 100k.

So u had to choose just between these 2 sections. If u are a seller u know easily where u put a new(or more) items for sale, if u are a buyer u know already where u look for a certain item .

Do I want a mini vizu? ok lemme dig High ends.

Do I want a mini devourer? ok I can find one for sure in Sell.

Do I want just to dig a section even if I dont have in mind what I need? ok I have the possibility. (I think this is one of the coolest thing we couldhave with the old system, and many players r missing that I'm sure)



The new sistem gives us obviously the possibility to look for a certain item, knowing its own worth...so if I look for a high end, I filter in that way...

BUT....that doesnt give us the only way to find an high-end or low-end items. Now I need to dig even Mixed threads and low end threads, since they might have nigh end stuff.

The same thing might happen if u want just to give a look for low ends items, u have to check all 3 sections to be SURE to find what u really need, since virtually any of the threee sections could contain what u looking for.


I dont want this new system being removed. I want these new system being improved.


Let me give u an idea how u can improve ventaris with these new sticky way:



U have to remove the Mixed sticky.

I know, it could be helpfull if u have a varied range of items for sale. but starting removing it we can mantain the sticky system and remove the confusion at the same time.

When U make a new thread, any user can still choose ofc the sticky for his own thread: high-end and low end ones, maintaining the fact u can only put 100k+ items for high end and 100k- items for Sell.

NOW u can see withouth any confusion all items in its own section. if u want to find any item u can just scroll by filtering the section and u'll have REALLY what u need/looking for. Easily.

Tho Closed sticky can be ofc mantained, since it helps a lot mods giving u the possibility to close a thread by urself while they have to working less on forum just closing old threads.

Since all sales threads were all merged in a single one, u can have only 1 thread open at time. I know it sux but that's the main problem guru staff wanted to address in my opinion: less threads, less works for mods, easy forum management.


That's the way I'd suggest u. I dont ask anything else other than u just read what I wrote. that already satisfy me, but if it can give u a new way to see and improve the new changes, I'll be glad to be helpfull.

Ty

dagrdagaz

dagrdagaz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2010

NL

E/N

what i dont like now, r like 5 pages of active threads in Sell.

Less motivating checking them all.

I for one had no interest in High End, so i could skip that subforum entirely.

Jenn

Jenn

Resigned.

Join Date: Sep 2006

@ Dagrdagaz, see this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...t10439892.html - The second post in it explains how to see just low-end posts.

@ Martian - thanks for taking the time to provide feedback! Part of the reason we made this change was to allow people to mix items in their thread, thus requiring much more lax moderation regarding price barriers. If we remove the "Mixed" prefix, we're back to the same problem we had before the merge.

@ Mordiego - I encourage people to use the latest version of the forum's layout (V3). From what I'm able to tell, various features of the forum have been optimized to fit this latest design. However, I'm no expert on the cross-compatibility of the layout versions with all the features and settings that are currently on the forum.

Faer

Faer

La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordiego View Post
Why does only the original forum skin have the option to sort by prefix?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenn View Post
However, I'm no expert on the cross-compatibility of the layout versions with all the features and settings that are currently on the forum. It's merely a bit of template editing that has yet to be done (probably an oversight). Everything we've added recently should work fine with the older themes as soon as an administrator gets around to opening the vB ACP and pasting the code bits in the right spots.

Rushin Roulette

Rushin Roulette

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Right here

Ende

One thing that peeves me about this new system is the "Mixed" category. It makes searching really annoying and sellers using this function will have less sales.
Buyers will be searching either "Low end" or "High end" if they are looking for a specific item.

Could you at least consider removing the Mixed category and allow players to have 2 Active threads in the Ventaris forums? If a player then uses the wrong tag, then Its his own fault if he gets too few hits because buyers will be looking for the wrong tag?

Maybe a sales system like the Wartower.de forums could be interresting as an alternative?
The sales forums there are split not into low and high end, but into each type of weapon separately (Swords, Axes, Caster, Shield, etc) or grouped into titel points (Alcohol, Party Sweets) or Minpets and event/collector items (EL Tonics[adding no points to the party title track], Nick collectables or items such as Victory tokens).

Marty Silverblade

Marty Silverblade

Administrator

Join Date: Jun 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette View Post
Maybe a sales system like the Wartower.de forums could be interresting as an alternative?
The sales forums there are split not into low and high end, but into each type of weapon separately (Swords, Axes, Caster, Shield, etc) or grouped into titel points (Alcohol, Party Sweets) or Minpets and event/collector items (EL Tonics[adding no points to the party title track], Nick collectables or items such as Victory tokens).
This was brought up a while back when someone PM'ed one of the mods. The discussion went like this:

Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
I can see one issue with this. People generally sell lots of things, sometimes hundreds at once. This makes it easier to manage since there's only one thread. Getting people to split their items up would probably only work for people selling items individually. Also, consider people (like myself) that generally make threads to clear out the random bits like greens that are filling up storage. It's much easier to dump ~20 greens in one thread than have to split them into several different categories.

Modding will most likely be a lot more difficult as well. The aforementioned 100+ items people will have lots of threads going all the time. Try figuring out early bumps/double threads that way.

I'd definitely be against changing the system. Btw, if someone is looking for something in particular, they could use auctions as you suggest, or try the buy forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenn
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/auction/
Send him there .

Moderating such an area would be a pain in the ass, and it would be an even bigger pain in the arse for people creating threads. Marty is right in saying that people tend to post an assortment of things, sometimes hundreds of items. But yeah... Marty has pretty much said all there is to say. I think people would throw rotten tomatoes at us if we changed it .

Little Shenanigan

Little Shenanigan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

the reason why i dislike the new system is because it is now more difficult to find certain things.

i assume that because all of the "low end", "mixed" and "high end" are in one area (yes, it can be changed if filters are used) then sellers can only have one thread open - either low, high, or mixed.
because of the prefix requirements - "threads that have xx high end and/or xx low end items must have this prefix", low end items can be sold in a thread that is labeled "high end" if the seller has more high end items (or vice versa).
if i wanted to look for an item that is considered "low end", i would want to look through the threads that are labeled either "low end" or "mixed", perhaps missing the item in a thread labeled "high end".
i realize that there is a search function here on guru to assist in looking for the item, but many sellers here choose to have a screenshot of the item and not list its name, which means that looking through open threads is sometimes necessary. however, now the item has a possibility of being in any thread in the sell section ("low", "high", or "mixed"); searching for the item would be more difficult. when there were only two sections ("low end" and "high end") there were not as many threads to search through - only the "low end" threads had to be searched.


hopefully that made sense

-Martian-

-Martian-

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Shenanigan View Post
the reason why i dislike the new system is because it is now more difficult to find certain things.

i assume that because all of the "low end", "mixed" and "high end" are in one area (yes, it can be changed if filters are used) then sellers can only have one thread open - either low, high, or mixed.
because of the prefix requirements - "threads that have xx high end and/or xx low end items must have this prefix", low end items can be sold in a thread that is labeled "high end" if the seller has more high end items (or vice versa).
if i wanted to look for an item that is considered "low end", i would want to look through the threads that are labeled either "low end" or "mixed", perhaps missing the item in a thread labeled "high end".
i realize that there is a search function here on guru to assist in looking for the item, but many sellers here choose to have a screenshot of the item and not list its name, which means that looking through open threads is sometimes necessary. however, now the item has a possibility of being in any thread in the sell section ("low", "high", or "mixed"); searching for the item would be more difficult. when there were only two sections ("low end" and "high end") there were not as many threads to search through - only the "low end" threads had to be searched.


hopefully that made sense

That's where all my concerns went with the new system.... :/

Eragon Zarroc

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

Shouldn't the brand new traders outpost section be included in the official ventari rules?

Jenn

Jenn

Resigned.

Join Date: Sep 2006

Good idea, Eragon. I will add it after I'm finished my breakfast (pizza and... wine ).

Tha D

Tha D

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

in short: i dont like the new system cause the overview is much worse!
in even shorter: "its horrible!"

-i totally understand the concerns of the thread creater!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Martian- View Post
But please....keeps the high-end sticky only for 100k+ worth items and the sale one for only 100k- items. It helps so much any research u want to do.


This is more reasonable according to me for any request/reserch/utility.


The fact u can merge high worth items and low worth items in the same thread just give too much confusion, as I previously stated. So let's keep this for the mixed sticky. The other 2 stickies should be for what they've be disegned. 100k+ only and 100k- only.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Martian- View Post
Best regards by a guru addict best regards here too but i also stopped smoking- that much for being addicted too :y
peace

Cleavage

Cleavage

Worlds Hexiest Man

Join Date: Jun 2006

[TRDR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariena Najea View Post
Maybe we should add in links to the respective "sections" in the Forum Description so people can get right to what they are looking for?

ex) Low End | High End | Mixed