*sigh* class choosing help

or profession, it really means the same thing. Anway, I played guild wars a year or two ago with a couple friends (we used to play WoW, but we wanted something less costly) The other two friends dropped out, and I shortly followed. Speed up to present, I saw that there was a guild wars 2 coming out, and my interest was piqued, so I decided to run through guild wars to get back into the feel of the game and pick up on the lore so I'd be ready for the release. But as usual, my indecisiveness makes that crucial first step nearly impossible.

A bit about my style: Although I used to simply take a big stick and charge in blindly in MMO's, I've recently come to the realization that this is stupid and gets me killed/knocked down/stuned/ganged up on/pisses off everyone I play with. I tried a ranged character in DAO and realized "hey, this is like, 50x better than I was before!" and am now interested in trying a ranged character, especially since range tends to be rather long from what I remember of guild wars. I hate sacrificing my durability as well, and I hate taking a bunch of hits unless I can trust my healer will keep me on my feet (kinda standard, but when going gets tough I tend to run, which screws up the team) I like having a random guy/minion keep the enemy's attention, but I prefer not to rely on others to get the job done, I have a bit of a complex about the power I use being mine, and not borrowed from the gods, or requested from the trees or things like that. I also prefer to be the damager instead of healer/buffer, and I tend to play aggressively.

Also comes with a look at what I think of the classes

Warrior: ah, my best friend of old. I've always loved the simplicity of going up and stabbing the enemy repeatedly. However, movement speeds, range and mesmers which always seem to fight me make me incredibly skeptical of trying this road this time. Armor is awesome in both style and efficiency, and I like the aesthetics of melee weapons

Ranger: I played as one of these before, and they seemed to work out rather well for me. The pet was a useful addition to the party, and I seemed to deal a nice bundle of damage. This was a long time ago though, and I outright refuse to use traps and stationary spirits to buff myself, so I might completely nerf myself as a ranger.

Ele: this was my first reaction when I decided to come back, but from what I've read here, they seem to be rather weak, or do more time buffing than killing now, so not too sure...

Mesmer: no. I'm a direct person, while I can say from experience that someone who knows what they're doing with one of these can completely destroy people, I don't think it's the right style for me.

Necro: eh...they look HORRIBLE, but I can attest to the effectiveness of a wall of organ meats devouring your enemies for you. Not too sure I like the whole gothic, evil character though, I prefer arcane magic to dark magic.

Monk: HELL no, healing is anathema to the way I think when fighting (screw my lifebar, THEY ALL MUST DIE HORRIBLY)

Assassin: I like the chaining of skills together, and the teleportation seems to be able to cover up the running into melee problem, but theres something about stealth that doesn't sit right with me. I feel like I'm too weak if I can't take on my opponent directly, and waiting isn't my forte

Ritualist: uh...I think they work by setting up spirit turret things, which I wouldn't like because constantl setting them up every fight would be annoying, but I'm probably wrong about this, so this is up for grabs

Dervish: I've always loved the art of buffing myself way too much and charging the frontlines as an immortal god of war, but robes and scythes are not something I like, and melee is kinda problematic due to the way aggroing work in this game, plus I've read that their kinda weak.

Paragon: Grrr, I LOVE the armor, LOVE the throwing spears, so why the HELL did they have to be cursed with being the party bard!?!?! I'm not sure if they can be a good offensive engine with buffing on the side, but if they can't, then they're probably a bad choice for me. I like the idea of being able to say "I'm just here to make you guys do better, I can't be held responsible for you people doing badly with the advantages I gave you."

I'm mostly going be doing PVE, and don't own Nightfall yet, though I plan to get it for the extra skills and campaign, plus I've heard that it's generally better to use heroes than other people due to the number of noobs out there, though I might be wrong about that.

Quote: Originally Posted by endgamecutter
A bit about my style: Although I used to simply take a big stick and charge in blindly in MMO's, I've recently come to the realization that this is stupid and gets me killed/knocked down/stuned/ganged up on/pisses off everyone I play with. I tried a ranged character in DAO and realized "hey, this is like, 50x better than I was before!" and am now interested in trying a ranged character, especially since range tends to be rather long from what I remember of guild wars. I hate sacrificing my durability as well, and I hate taking a bunch of hits unless I can trust my healer will keep me on my feet (kinda standard, but when going gets tough I tend to run, which screws up the team) I like having a random guy/minion keep the enemy's attention, but I prefer not to rely on others to get the job done, I have a bit of a complex about the power I use being mine, and not borrowed from the gods, or requested from the trees or things like that. I also prefer to be the damager instead of healer/buffer, and I tend to play aggressively.

Ranger: I played as one of these before, and they seemed to work out rather well for me. The pet was a useful addition to the party, and I seemed to deal a nice bundle of damage. This was a long time ago though, and I outright refuse to use traps and stationary spirits to buff myself, so I might completely nerf myself as a ranger. At the moment due to the ele's current level of gayness.. I actually suggest this and don't wory about the spirits, my recomendation for skills... is simply THIS, it allow's for what I believe to be the current best ranger build, allowing you to "run in" and dish out TONS of dmg (up to 400+ dmg spikes, and/or a repeating 60+ dmg up to 3 times a second), while maintaining a decent energy-level the reason is because rangers are very resilient and have the LONGEST range keeping you relatively out of the fight, and if you later decide to bring discordway the asuran scan makes it much easier on them and you often do a majority of the dmg with the first strike making the whole fight just that much easier.

Note: The skills are in reverse order-of-use, for example enter the fight then press 7-6-5-4-3-2-1-1-1-1-1 stop when target is dead, begin cycle as needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgamecutter I've heard that it's generally better to use heroes than other people due to the number of noobs out there, though I might be wrong about that. Then you heard correctly, its damn near impossible to find a full group of good players anymore, and guildwars have been stuffed down the shitter as of late, and anets not helping with all the nerfs of the fun-stuff (for example, CoP and SF nerfs killed alot of stuff, albeit I'm glad speed-clears are for the most part gone, I'm disappointed Urgoz is barely played, and with the amount of noobs even more rarely successful)

Technicality but NRA does little in that build, half your bow attacks have 1/4th activation with 1/2 aftercast... otherwise yeah its a nice stream of single-target damage.

Ritualist are pretty broken and can now make all their spirits teleport around every 5 seconds, the spirits also cast in 1 second each. The only downside is you basically watch your spirts do almost everything for you. You can throw in some channeling nukes, but most of them depend upon spirits or physical attackers to be good, or else running into battle recklessly dropping an urn..

Current Paragons are much stronger with defensive support than offensive. The most party damage they do is like anthem of envy on a spirit mass summoned by your heroes, which still isn't that amazing. Rangers are actually somewhat better at pure spearchuking builds if that is what you want.

I'll agree it sounds like Ranger is the thing for you, it's the best direct "nuker" in the game currently, which isn't amazing but it's decent enough. They have enough blocking stances and elemental armor you can also play recklessly out in front if you want. Between that, pets, and expertise, you can always try out all of the melee weapons or even rit spirits when bored.

Quote: Originally Posted by FoxBat Technicality but NRA does little in that build, half your bow attacks have 1/4th activation with 1/2 aftercast... otherwise yeah its a nice stream of single-target damage. Actually, your kinda right but to the contrary, aftercast doesn't apply to needling shot, and the activation times ARE!! reduced by IAS (contrary to most peoples belief) allowing for faster (albeit only slightly) spikes, but that maybe 1/10th of a second can make a huge difference in the outcome, also NRA also allows for a more effective use of a vampric weapon in particular a vampric(+5dmg/healing) hornbow (+10% armor penetration).

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat Ritualist are pretty broken and can now make all their spirits teleport around every 5 seconds, the spirits also cast in 1 second each. The only downside is you basically watch your spirts do almost everything for you. You can throw in some channeling nukes, but most of them depend upon spirits or physical attackers to be good, or else running into battle recklessly dropping an urn.. Current Paragons are much stronger with defensive support than offensive. The most party damage they do is like anthem of envy on a spirit mass summoned by your heroes, which still isn't that amazing. Rangers are actually somewhat better at pure spearchuking builds if that is what you want. I'll agree it sounds like Ranger is the thing for you, it's the best direct "nuker" in the game currently, which isn't amazing but it's decent enough. They have enough blocking stances and elemental armor you can also play recklessly out in front if you want. Between that, pets, and expertise, you can always try out all of the melee weapons or even rit spirits when bored. I entirely agree with you at this... with the additional note that a DWG build might be better for him... as it allows him to fight from just outside melee range with equal effect, and MASSIVE dmg (up to 800dmg over 3 seconds, somtimes to multiple targets) edit: just be slightly more careful, let someone else start the fight, THEN run in

Quote: Originally Posted by endgamecutter Warrior: ah, my best friend of old. I've always loved the simplicity of going up and stabbing the enemy repeatedly. However, movement speeds, range and mesmers which always seem to fight me make me incredibly skeptical of trying this road this time. Armor is awesome in both style and efficiency, and I like the aesthetics of melee weapons A fair assessment. However, with heroes, it's easy to fit in condition, hex, and enchantment removal for things that screw with your ability to kill things. Warriors are really powerful damage dealers. You just have to set yourself up so that you can get past all the annoying crap.

Quote: Ranger: I played as one of these before, and they seemed to work out rather well for me. The pet was a useful addition to the party, and I seemed to deal a nice bundle of damage. This was a long time ago though, and I outright refuse to use traps and stationary spirits to buff myself, so I might completely nerf myself as a ranger. Rangers are probably on the bottom of the list of most useful PvE professions right now. Their key abilities such as interrupting and condition spreading are generally inferior to just killing. Not to say they aren't playable, but don't expect to be welcomed into groups as much as other players. They do have good build flexibility though. Spear/Pet builds, Dagger/Pet builds, and Scythe builds all work fairly well on Rangers.

Quote: Ele: this was my first reaction when I decided to come back, but from what I've read here, they seem to be rather weak, or do more time buffing than killing now, so not too sure... In Hard Mode, all foes have more armor. All of the damage in the Elementalists arsenal (barring PvE only skills, but they don't really belong to ele's anyway) are armor affected, so their big damage nuker stereotype is threatened. Armor ignoring damage is generally the way to go, but again, if you want to play a nuker, do it. It's a game, after all. Oh, and Ether Renewal is awesome for fueling any spammable spells. Monk healing/protection is used mostly, though I've seen some Blood builds that look interesting. I've been meaning to muck around with a pre-searing inspired E/Me because Mesmers just got buffed. It's not going to be uber-powerful, but it's a just a thought if you like that kind of thing.

Quote: Mesmer: no. I'm a direct person, while I can say from experience that someone who knows what they're doing with one of these can completely destroy people, I don't think it's the right style for me. Fair enough. Interrupting is better on heroes anyway.

Quote: Necro: eh...they look HORRIBLE, but I can attest to the effectiveness of a wall of organ meats devouring your enemies for you. Not too sure I like the whole gothic, evil character though, I prefer arcane magic to dark magic. Necro's do get a place in pretty much every team, but that's what heroes are for. There are 3 necros, so no worry there.

Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTyme Actually, your kinda right but to the contrary, aftercast doesn't apply to needling shot Needling/Penetrating/Sundering have 1/2s aftercasts, but the attack itself is 1/4th, so under no IAS effects it comes out to the listed 3/4s. This is very different than the 1s + 1/2 unlisted aftercast on most skills like quick shot.

Quote: Ritualist: uh...I think they work by setting up spirit turret things, which I wouldn't like because constantl setting them up every fight would be annoying, but I'm probably wrong about this, so this is up for grabs Most flexible profession in Guild wars, you can do spirit, good healing (but you don't want that). sounds like you want channeling magic to deal direct damage and layer conditions on foes, or maybe mix both? since it takes less than 10 seconds to set up a team of spirits now you can teleport them around with you and pretty good as an aggresive play style since they can handle more mobs.

go for whatever you want, just don't make decisions until you've done the normal content (past LA, Shing jea and kamadan) then see if you enjoy the profession. you can always re-roll pretty quickly in most areas.

if you are afraid to play warrior because of a few little pesky mesmer hexes, don't be if you have to, you can use your heroes to ensure that you are always hex free. other than that, JimmyTyme's ranger build looks quite fun might have to go try it myself ;-)

I'm not afraid to be a warrior because of mesmers, it's more of it being incredibly tedious to have to run up to people to fight. Plus the more I think of it, the more I'm starting to see that all the cool stuff that made melee appealing to me in the past was mostly magic attacks using a weapon as a focus. While there is a certain satisfaction in beating people to death with their own femurs and not worrying about antimagic abilities like silence (that DOES exist here, doesn't it?), It's just not as awesome as creating lightning storms and freezing lifeblood. Even with the range of the ranger I'm quickly getting bored of shooting them with an arrow, then another harder hitting arrow in comparison to a stream of fireballs. On the plus side, I'm finally starting to see why I love spellswords so much.

So on the topic of ritualists, are they generally considered popular due to swarms of spirits/healing, or can they get similar numbers with their form of blasting? Other than the seeming blindness, they DO sound appealing (I always DID like versatility and a panic heal button. Plus they have hard res options, which kick ass). Also, is there a reason to choose staff over wand/focus other than asthetics? From the examples I've found, they seem to have the same effects at the same level meaning no innate statistical difference, but you can add attachments to both wand and focus which I pretty sure means more bonus' from wand/focus over staff.

Quote: Originally Posted by endgamecutter there is a certain satisfaction in beating people to death with their own femurs and not worrying about antimagic abilities like silence (that DOES exist here, doesn't it?), It's just not as awesome as creating lightning storms and freezing lifeblood. Even with the range of the ranger I'm quickly getting bored of shooting them with an arrow, then another harder hitting arrow in comparison to a stream of fireballs. On the plus side, I'm finally starting to see why I love spellswords so much. Silence doesn't exsist the closest comparisson would be daze, which while just as effective most of the time, can be MUCH easier to overcome, and is nowhere even close to as common, spells swords do... kinda exsist ... the basics would be a W/E useing one of the conjure spells from the elementalist chain to boost their dmg, but it really doesn't affect the playstyle you still have to work around block, blind, knockdown and watch your aggro.

Quote: Originally Posted by endgamecutter

Hai! First of all, I tl;dr'd most of your post. Guild Wars is different from other MMOs so the class you played elsewhere may feel totally different here. I will just give a summary of each prof.


Assassin: If you want quick GWAMM then pick this one. Assassin can run a large selection of powerful c+space builds and hero setups ranging from more caster-based like Discord to stuff that is built around melee buffs. It can farm, it can run. You ain't going to get bored with this one.

Mesmer: Sexy armor! Lots of sexy armor combinations to waste your wealth on. Recently got a buff, is quite strong, like an Assassin it has many builds to play with so you won't have to be running AP Caller all the time.

Ritualist: Spirits are awesome and cool. They destroy anything in their way. Aside from that Rit has fun Resto and Chan builds and adapts very well to various strong hero setups.

Ele: Prepare to be running AP Caller all the time if you want GWAMM. Females has bewbs though.

Monk: Same as Eles but cute and no bewbs.

Necro: Same as Eles (more or less) but ugly. Necros work extremely well with Discord, obviously.

Warrior: Assassin without solo farm. Requires brain power.

Ranger: Uhhh whats that? o.O

Dervish: Underpowered Scythe Sin.

Paragon: Has one build that is woth running (there are two more builds that make Dagger/Scythe Para so it deals at least SOME damage but meh). Very exciting class!


I realise that I mostly talk about title grind here. That's because it makes for majority of your PvE activity so when picking your main, you should have GWAMM in mind.

You sound like a warrior to me , bollocks to healing , just hit stuff with big lumps of metal. Figure out how to play it well in GW and you'll prolly have a great time

Quote: Originally Posted by endgamecutter

Ranger: I played as one of these before, and they seemed to work out rather well for me. The pet was a useful addition to the party, and I seemed to deal a nice bundle of damage. This was a long time ago though, and I outright refuse to use traps and stationary spirits to buff myself, so I might completely nerf myself as a ranger. Ranger spirits are basically shit and if your like most rangers, you wont ever use them. Traps are useful for a few farming builds but again , very rarely in normal play will you ever run a trapper build.

You could also try Ranger , unfortunately bow weilding rangers are pretty shit for damage these days in comparison to most classes but they can abuse secondary professions and use dagger/scythes/Spears/Axes etc. very well. Granted they will not use them as well as Warriors/Sins etc but they will certainly be decent damage dealers and good enough to get through PvE.

Quote: Originally Posted by Myotheraccount Hai! First of all, I tl;dr'd most of your post. Guild Wars is different from other MMOs so the class you played elsewhere may feel totally different here. I will just give a summary of each prof.


Assassin: If you want quick GWAMM then pick this one. Assassin can run a large selection of powerful c+space builds and hero setups ranging from more caster-based like Discord to stuff that is built around melee buffs. It can farm, it can run. You ain't going to get bored with this one.

Mesmer: Sexy armor! Lots of sexy armor combinations to waste your wealth on. Recently got a buff, is quite strong, like an Assassin it has many builds to play with so you won't have to be running AP Caller all the time.

Ritualist: Spirits are awesome and cool. They destroy anything in their way. Aside from that Rit has fun Resto and Chan builds and adapts very well to various strong hero setups.

Ele: Prepare to be running AP Caller all the time if you want GWAMM. Females has bewbs though.

Monk: Same as Eles but cute and no bewbs.

Necro: Same as Eles (more or less) but ugly. Necros work extremely well with Discord, obviously.

Warrior: Assassin without solo farm. Requires brain power.

Ranger: Uhhh whats that? o.O

Dervish: Underpowered Scythe Sin.

Paragon: Has one build that is woth running (there are two more builds that make Dagger/Scythe Para so it deals at least SOME damage but meh). Very exciting class!


I realise that I mostly talk about title grind here. That's because it makes for majority of your PvE activity so when picking your main, you should have GWAMM in mind. completely ignored their individual styles of play...also completely focus'd on gwamm which for a new player he shouldn't be going directly for... and a few of your comments completely ignore a dozen or more amazing builds....

Quote: Originally Posted by Myotheraccount [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I will just give a summary of each prof.

-snip- I'm sorry, but those were very incomplete and unhelpful descriptions.

Quote: A bit about my style: Although I used to simply take a big stick and charge in blindly in MMO's, I've recently come to the realization that this is stupid and gets me killed/knocked down/stuned/ganged up on/pisses off everyone I play with. I tried a ranged character in DAO and realized "hey, this is like, 50x better than I was before!" and am now interested in trying a ranged character, especially since range tends to be rather long from what I remember of guild wars. I hate sacrificing my durability as well, and I hate taking a bunch of hits unless I can trust my healer will keep me on my feet (kinda standard, but when going gets tough I tend to run, which screws up the team) I like having a random guy/minion keep the enemy's attention, but I prefer not to rely on others to get the job done, I have a bit of a complex about the power I use being mine, and not borrowed from the gods, or requested from the trees or things like that. I also prefer to be the damager instead of healer/buffer, and I tend to play aggressively. Sounds like you want a ranger; they're durable, they have the longest range of any profession, and you can let frontliners or pets keep the aggro. They usually serve as damage-dealers (in PvE) and are pretty much the best spiking profession (in PvE). Unfortunately, they're the weakest PvE profession at the moment (but they might get buffed soon).

I use a build similar to the one posted earlier, but with a different format and different attributes. I use max Marks, take expertise down to twelve to meet the Expert Focus breakpoint for 10e skills, and dump the rest in Beast Mastery: build Dropping Needling for "Save Yourselves!" is good (sometimes you don't really need it) in HM if no one else has it or if you're playing with henchmen.

Also, don't worry about having to use traps or nature rituals; they're terrible.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ugh I'm sorry, but those were very incomplete and unhelpful descriptions. How so? They were simple, truthful and without any stupid drama. Certainly my post is more helpful than nitpicking contests that just confuse the OP. :3

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyTyme completely ignored their individual styles of play...also completely focus'd on gwamm which for a new player he shouldn't be going directly for... and a few of your comments completely ignore a dozen or more amazing builds.... You are being ambiguous. Name those amazing builds or you are misleading the poor newbie. There are no such thing as individual style of play, only tactics/builds that work and those that don't. As a matter of fact Eles are forced to rely on staple AP Caller chain (or similar) to be effective in general PvE for example and whatever super special snowflake damage build you come up with will be less effective. You know it's the truth, don't blame me blame A-Net. Oh and yes I'm talking about GWAMM because you are on a quest for it right from the start with your main. The whole point of PvE is to get that title and fill in your HoM in preparation for GW2. As a whole you guys should stop playing mysterious Gurus of the forumland and elaborate your claims more. Also, like I said above, nitpicking contests aren't helpful (this entire thread). You are giving off irrelevant stuff as important which only confuses people, making them worry about stuff they shouldn't be.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ugh

Sounds like you want a ranger; they're durable, they have the longest range of any profession, and you can let frontliners or pets keep the aggro. They usually serve as damage-dealers (in PvE) and are pretty much the best spiking profession (in PvE). Unfortunately, they're the weakest PvE profession at the moment. Also, don't worry about having to use traps or nature rituals; they're terrible. I agree with you up till the point where u said they're the weakest class in pve I entirely disagree, Elementalists then dervishes are the weakest, then MAYBE rangers, but rangers themselves are very decent still. I agree with traps and nature rituals being terribad, unless it's EoE cuz it's just pure un-adult-rated RAPE! (now to which side is still left in question, but its definately gonna rape someone)

Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTyme

I agree with you up till the point where u said they're the weakest class in pve I entirely disagree, Elementalists then dervishes are the weakest, then MAYBE rangers, but rangers themselves are very decent still. I agree with traps and nature rituals being terribad, unless it's EoE cuz it's just pure un-adult-rated RAPE! (now to which side is still left in question, but its definately gonna rape someone) Still ambiguous and now incomplete too. Hypocricyzzz.

Rangers are in a very bad state. Bows and EoE are very area-specific and usually ineffective in general PvE. They have to rely heavily on PvE skills and secondary class to be effective. Rangers are fun however, that's the only reason you should play one. It is funny to play a class that can (arguably) perform better with most secondaries than it can with it's primary. Oh and pets are absolutely amazing but I better not say it around here or a huge drama fest would erupt. Osht I already did! Maybe it wouldn't now that I said it. ;3

Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTyme

I agree with you up till the point where u said they're the weakest class in pve I entirely disagree, Elementalists then dervishes are the weakest, then MAYBE rangers, but rangers themselves are very decent still. I agree with traps and nature rituals being terribad, unless it's EoE cuz it's just pure un-adult-rated RAPE! (now to which side is still left in question, but its definately gonna rape someone) Elementalists have ER builds, which is one of the most OP builds in the game. While they are in desperate need of a buff so they can actually be played the way they were meant to be played, they at least have options to easily get them into a group. Also, they have ward builds, which are okay.

Dervs have an underrated critscythe build that does almost as much damage as the sin version while giving the user a 75% block chance and SY. They're in need of a buff for the same reason as eles, but they have at least one good option. Also they have some random casting support roles.

Rangers have nothing, tbh. We have EoE, but nothing to offer with it, so it's better on rits or monks in SCs. And EoE, along with every other nature ritual, has a casting time far too obnoxiously long for any balanced groups. We have Splinter Barrage, which is also better on rits thanks to the Splinter breakpoint. We have regular ol' Barrage, but it's only good in tank 'n' spank and in extremely cramped areas which may or may not exist. Even then, it's far outclassed by AoE options on other professions. We have traps, which are quite possibly the slowest, least efficient way to fight in any area except Zelite. We have BHA, which is beaten by Technobabble in 95% of areas. We have half-assed imitations of other professions' builds because bows are terrible in PvE. We have conditions and interrupts, which are terrible in PvE. And we have random turret builds which are nice for spiking, but are outclassed by pretty much every other DPS-based physical classes.

So yeah, rangers are pretty damn weak.

actually, the ranger build suggested has been made quite clear (stack debuffs and unleash dakka, repeat as needed) The only issue is that bows are one of the lamest weapon types ever and physical attacks in MMO's in general tend to be boring.

Maybe the first couple levels are a bad basis for this, but I'm beginning to think that durability isn't going to be much of a concern in the long run, since as has been said, no class can survive without a monk (or other healer type I assume), so I might as well go with a fun offense instead of worrying about my defense.

Does the Ritualist (I hear they be strong, and most of the other classes I'm interested in are straightforward enough) get any legitimate attack spells? (spirit rift is fun and all, but kinda hard to hit with since they charge me once it's cast) By legitimate I mean like an ele's flare spell, since it's just a basic attack (effects and cast times can be part of it, but mainly something I won't have to time to hit properly)

Quote: Originally Posted by endgamecutter