This isn't about scams - they're another (nasty) thing altogether.
What I'm wondering about are peoples feelings on interacting with the buyers and sellers both in-game and on Guru. While my experiences have mostly been positive, there have been occasions where I haven't been real happy. For instance, I hate when someone posts with a higher offer after someone else has already taken the sellers listed b/o. What I despise even more is when the seller doesn't honour the b/o and instead goes for the higher offer.
Now, I realize that many people have an "all's fair in love, war, and the GW market" attitude about trading. I guess it's especially temping to toss your ethics out the window when you see something that you've been looking for for ages. But, personally, I wouldn't engage in (what I consider to be) greasy tactics just to get something I want. Nor would I do it from the sellers side just to get a few more plat or ecto.
That's just one example I guess. Anyone else have any thoughts or pet peeves?
Trader ethics
jimbo32
spun ducky
I personally will always take the higher offer if its above the b/o as there is no repercussions to taking the little bit of extra cash and imo if the bidding goes beyond the b/o that means the b/o was set too low.
In regards to things that piss me off in trading is the fact most of the exotic items collectors such as myself have involve less than active players. I am completely guilty of this and have since stopped trading for the time being as I hardly ever login to even make the deals.
In regards to things that piss me off in trading is the fact most of the exotic items collectors such as myself have involve less than active players. I am completely guilty of this and have since stopped trading for the time being as I hardly ever login to even make the deals.
Del
I hate when people sell based on bids with no set end date, and don't update the bidders on when they plan to end it.
And yeah, people who post higher than the buyout are lamers
And yeah, people who post higher than the buyout are lamers
system.fan
It's annyoing to see that nearly 50% of the ingame C/O's are fakes....
especially when they are ridiculous high so that you can see that its a fake even without asking about who gave the offer.
And like you already said.... it's annyoing when ppl outbid your b/o offer!
Another thing i can't stand is if people try to tell you that you can put upgrades on noninscribable shields and then start to insult you, if you try to explain them that it's not possible.
Or if they just keep on saying that it is possible and don't change their mind even if you show em links from wiki and give em upgrades to try it...
that's just ridiculous...
greetz
especially when they are ridiculous high so that you can see that its a fake even without asking about who gave the offer.
And like you already said.... it's annyoing when ppl outbid your b/o offer!
Another thing i can't stand is if people try to tell you that you can put upgrades on noninscribable shields and then start to insult you, if you try to explain them that it's not possible.
Or if they just keep on saying that it is possible and don't change their mind even if you show em links from wiki and give em upgrades to try it...
that's just ridiculous...
greetz
Pleikki
Quote:
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Originally Posted by system.fan
offer!
Another thing i can't stand is if people try to tell you that you can put upgrades on noninscribable shields and then start to insult you, if you try to explain them that it's not possible. Or if they just keep on saying that it is possible and don't change their mind even if you show em links from wiki and give em upgrades to try it... that's just ridiculous... greetz |
system.fan
That's true.... Most times they say sry when they can try it their own.
But its still just ridiculous to call someone else a noob or something if you dont even know you cant upgrade noninscr shields/offhands/wands
But its still just ridiculous to call someone else a noob or something if you dont even know you cant upgrade noninscr shields/offhands/wands
Trader of Secrets
Heres one thing that I do not like:
seller: "WTS yadayada"
buyer: "how much?"
seller: "offer"
I just want a price, even something to work around.
seller: "WTS yadayada"
buyer: "how much?"
seller: "offer"
I just want a price, even something to work around.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets
Heres one thing that I do not like:
seller: "WTS yadayada" buyer: "how much?" seller: "offer" I just want a price, even something to work around. |
The seller has a goddamn price in mind, and they're looking to screw over the chump that's willing to pay more. It's a buyer's market motherRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOers.
Atro
Lol yea it does get quite annoying, also when people think they know a price, when you are absolutely sure that your price is the RIGHT and they say, lol no goodluck with that. Well guess what, goodluck being ignorant.
xD
xD
Luke D
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jimbo32
For instance, I hate when someone posts with a higher offer after someone else has already taken the sellers listed b/o. What I despise even more is when the seller doesn't honour the b/o and instead goes for the higher offer.
|
As a seller, I have had several people offer higher than the b/o on items I've been selling, and I always honor the lower b/o price. I know how annoying it is as a buyer to be outbid when you've already done all you can to secure an item.
I also dislike when people call me a noob because I won't pay their overinflated price for something (this was especially annoying back when I was a PC Guru and knew prices pretty well). If I had said something rude first, that would have been one thing, but something like "Sorry, 50k is too much for a req 9 FDS" does not warrant name calling imo.
byteme!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets
Heres one thing that I do not like:
seller: "WTS yadayada" buyer: "how much?" seller: "offer" I just want a price, even something to work around. |
PowerRAV
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jimbo32
For instance, I hate when someone posts with a higher offer after someone else has already taken the sellers listed b/o. What I despise even more is when the seller doesn't honour the b/o and instead goes for the higher offer.
|
Wow, now that I dug through my old PM's I realize the seller was Cleavage... omg cleav u bastage... u made me this way! lol <3
Pleikki
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PowerRAV
Wow, now that I dug through my old PM's I realize the seller was Cleavage... omg cleav u bastage... u made me this way! lol <3 |
Meh, I hate when ppl ask offers, even tho i do the same, tbh 99% of players do it, Eventho i allways say price if guy wont offer
Horace Slughorn
I know it's a bit different, but imagine if you walked into a store and asked a salesperson the price of their merchandise. They look at you and all they say is, "offer," you say, "how much were you looking for", "offer" they say again, you say "um $10", salesperson says "gtfo noob".
talon994
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets
Heres one thing that I do not like:
seller: "WTS yadayada" buyer: "how much?" seller: "offer" I just want a price, even something to work around. |
By far the worst. It's so annoying + most of the time it's some idiot who wants an obscene amount.
Snograt
You guys are the elite traders - how about one of you writing a code of ethics? Would be interesting to point idiots to it when they're being twats.
Captain Krompdown
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snograt
You guys are the elite traders - how about one of you writing a code of ethics? Would be interesting to point idiots to it when they're being twats.
|
If you are selling an item, then you should have a price.
Kromp's Corollary #1:
If you do not know what you want for an item, you are not actually ready to sell.
Kromp's Corollary#2:
If you are not ready to sell an item, do not tell others that you are selling.
Luminarus
I think the opposite is also true, when someone is saying WTB XYZ, then they should either list a price, or have a price in mind. For instance, I see someone with that, ill decide whether I want to sell based on their price rather then whether or not I want to keep it. Take a 20% Forget Me Not, with patience I can buy for 20k, and I will use. On the other hand, I see someone spamming in Kamadan WTB 20% Forget Me Not, and I ask them how much they want to pay for it. I actually dont have a price in mind, so I dont think it should be upon me to set the price, rather to see if what they are looking at is worth negotiating on.
Arrogant Bastard
I hate it when people grossly underbid for my stuff or ask for ridiculously inflated prices for their items...and then try to lecture me about prices.
jimbo32
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain Krompdown
Rule #1 (Kromp's Rule):
If you are selling an item, then you should have a price. Kromp's Corollary #1: If you do not know what you want for an item, you are not actually ready to sell. Kromp's Corollary#2: If you are not ready to sell an item, do not tell others that you are selling. |
But sellers who say "offer" are more an annoyance than an ethics issue. I had an argument in-game the other day with some doofus trying to tell me that a q9 Draconic Spear was worth 20e. Same kinda thing - not an ethics problem, just a moron.
What about people who post something for sale like this:
q7 Str Echovald -2^stance/+30: (c/o: 8000 arms [in-game])
Whenever I see a new high-end thread with an item that already has a high-ish in-game offer, I almost always think "bullshit". I'm sure some of them are legit, but it still seems dodgy.
Jenn
I hate when people undercut my buy out, or overbid someone by a stupidly low amount.
E.g. WTS Item 20k, and someone replies "19.5k?". I just want to slap them for being lame :\. I never sell.
I also hate it when someone outbids someone on an item for a small amount (this amount is scalable to the items value, e.g. 50 gold on an inscription, or 1 ecto on a panda). When this happens, I always sell it to the person who didn't get silly with bids.
As for buyout honouring, and going over buy outs, I'm perfectly fine with it. To me, I see "buyout" as just a number that I'm willing to accept if no one goes over it. Unlike Auctions, there is no contract between the buyer and seller when someone takes 'buy out.' A 'buyout' in Ventari's should be regarded as a colloquialism as a byproduct of more formal jargon related to sites like EBay. IMO, if someone wants it more, they will pay more, and therefore are more entitled to the item.
To all those others hating on the, "WTS _____", "What's your price," "Offer?" scenario... that's exactly what auctions are like. You offer on items. Whether or not the person takes it is their choice. Why is it so different when it's in game? I do agree that it's annoying though because it takes more effort, haha.
Um, I hate fake bidders (usually e-peen related). I hate shill bidders (lame, low, etc.). In general, I dislike a lot of slimeballs willing to screw people out of their money just so they can make their own profit.
E.g. WTS Item 20k, and someone replies "19.5k?". I just want to slap them for being lame :\. I never sell.
I also hate it when someone outbids someone on an item for a small amount (this amount is scalable to the items value, e.g. 50 gold on an inscription, or 1 ecto on a panda). When this happens, I always sell it to the person who didn't get silly with bids
.As for buyout honouring, and going over buy outs, I'm perfectly fine with it. To me, I see "buyout" as just a number that I'm willing to accept if no one goes over it. Unlike Auctions, there is no contract between the buyer and seller when someone takes 'buy out.' A 'buyout' in Ventari's should be regarded as a colloquialism as a byproduct of more formal jargon related to sites like EBay. IMO, if someone wants it more, they will pay more, and therefore are more entitled to the item.
To all those others hating on the, "WTS _____", "What's your price," "Offer?" scenario... that's exactly what auctions are like. You offer on items. Whether or not the person takes it is their choice
. Why is it so different when it's in game? I do agree that it's annoying though because it takes more effort, haha.Um, I hate fake bidders (usually e-peen related). I hate shill bidders (lame, low, etc.). In general, I dislike a lot of slimeballs willing to screw people out of their money just so they can make their own profit.
cosyfiep
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain Krompdown
Rule #1 (Kromp's Rule):
If you are selling an item, then you should have a price. Kromp's Corollary #1: If you do not know what you want for an item, you are not actually ready to sell. Kromp's Corollary#2: If you are not ready to sell an item, do not tell others that you are selling. |
Trader of Secrets
The "WTS>price>offer" is in no way like an auction. There is no s/b and no way of knowing a c/o. And when I do ask for a price, it usually does mean whats your sb, rb, or co. I do usually forgive this for the very highend stuff, like rare minis.
jimbo32
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jenn
To all those others hating on the, "WTS _____", "What's your price," "Offer?" scenario... that's exactly what auctions are like. You offer on items. Whether or not the person takes it is their choice
. Why is it so different when it's in game? I do agree that it's annoying though because it takes more effort, haha. |
Moron: "WTS Q9 INSC FRYING PAN>>>>TEFLON!!!! (caps lock is pretty much a given)
You: "Hey, did you have a price in mind for your frying pan?"
Moron: "OFFER"
You: "How's 10k sound?"
Moron: "GTFO NOOB"
You: *raeg*
The fact is that most of these idiots *do* have a price in mind, and nine times out ten their price is completely preposterous.
Shocking Real-Life Edit:
In Kamadan just a few minutes ago, I noticed a WTS that was something like:
WTS gold spears - Crenellated, Serrated, Pronged, Windblade 15k each
Here's the whispered conversation:
Not exactly the same situation, but I think it illustrates the mentality and attitude of a lot of the shite-for-brains kids who play GW.
system.fan
Right now in Kamadan.... Perfect example for 100% dumb fake c/o's:
Just annyoing..... hate such idiots -.-
Just annyoing..... hate such idiots -.-
Torpoon
I am not really an elite trader or anything but I have been around for a long time. One of the things that bugs me the most actually has to do with hunting down particular items. I am not terribly active in ventari but I have never in my history of using this site actually 'bought' something. What bugs me the most are people who make a thread to sell, and either A) Forget about it B) Keep it going for months on end or C) Put a S/B and a R/B. Really just make the R/B the S/B so people don't waste their time. I honestly just do my best to straight out ignore an item unless I desperately want it if it has an R/B.
Eazy Duz It
Id just like to say that I HATE it when you offer and the seller doesnt respond. It pisses me off and pretty much doesnt make me want to do any business with them because clearly Im not worth there time. Yes I know I dont always have the highest offers but at least treat the person with some respect. And second of all I hate when people just plain disregard what you say, even though they are wrong, yes wrong, but they continue to argue. Also, I know some may argue that every seller has a price they are looking for, but consider why they are asking for offers. Is it maybe because they are trying to get a feel for the market? Or what about just searching for an offer at or above the price they are hoping for. Its perfectly reasonable to ask for offers. I just wish people werent so rude when you ask for their offer.
system.fan
Next example of ppl that drive me crazy:
I took b/o on a Cele Shield and a GPB, he pmed me ingame and didnt want to sell the Shield cause anyone else offered more than the B/O i took....
I took b/o on a Cele Shield and a GPB, he pmed me ingame and didnt want to sell the Shield cause anyone else offered more than the B/O i took....
Captain Krompdown
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eazy Duz It
Also, I know some may argue that every seller has a price they are looking for, but consider why they are asking for offers. Is it maybe because they are trying to get a feel for the market?
|
If this "seller" is actually just "getting a feel for the market," then they will not sell to you, no matter how good your offer is. They will take your offer as information about the market, rather than the beginning of a SALE. That, in my mind, is the difference.
Sellers are pursuing a sale.
Price checkers are after information.
Telling someone that you're selling when you're not ready to sell only leads to frustration on both sides. The buyer doesn't get to buy and the price checker doesn't get his information. It's bad for all of us.
system.fan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eazy Duz It
Also, I know some may argue that every seller has a price they are looking for, but consider why they are asking for offers. Is it maybe because they are trying to get a feel for the market?
|
I think its just to see if there is enough interest in the item(s) or if somebody would already offer more than expected....
I personally try to check if there is enough interest in my items too before i add a b/o here....
Also I don't add a b/o and let ppl just offer if I'm not 100% sure what my item is worth...
I guess that's what many people are doing ingame too....
But of course you're right too....
It can rly suck if people only want offers and dont even tell you the c/o or something.... And of course it can suck if you already gave any good offer and they keep on asking for more offers for days lol
Twilno
Don't know if this is a common problem or if its just me, but I get a lot of buyers who will agree to an offer, open the trade window, and then submit a price lower than the agreed upon offer. Then when I correct them, they try haggle for a lower price. Usually it goes something like this:
Me: WTS something for 20k
Buyer: I'll buy it.
*Buyer opens trade window, submits 15k*
Me:The price was 20k.
Buyer: Oh, well I only have 15k.
*I close trade window*
Buyer: OMG, fine I will pay 17.5k.
Or my other favorite is when someone argues with me that my price is too high, then tries to lowball my price. I recently had someone tell me that 5k for a zkey was too much (even though every other seller in GToB was selling at that price) and the proceed to offer 3k per zkey.
/rant
Me: WTS something for 20k
Buyer: I'll buy it.
*Buyer opens trade window, submits 15k*
Me:The price was 20k.
Buyer: Oh, well I only have 15k.
*I close trade window*
Buyer: OMG, fine I will pay 17.5k.
Or my other favorite is when someone argues with me that my price is too high, then tries to lowball my price. I recently had someone tell me that 5k for a zkey was too much (even though every other seller in GToB was selling at that price) and the proceed to offer 3k per zkey.
/rant
Louis1976
What totally annoys me is ppl selling and asking for offers, and then that conversation happens (had one like that today....):
Guy: WTS Echovald Shield q9 -2st/30....
Me: Hi, what's the price on your echovald, it's cut in party search
Guy: b/o is 300e
Me: What's c/o?
Guy: c/o 250e
Me: Sorry, I'll pass then, won't bid more than that, but good luck with your further sale
Guy: How much do you offer? (<--- c/o was probably fake)
Me: I'd have offered 100e or so for it...
Guy: noob
Guy: 100e is for rubbish ones, you maybe need another I have for 100e?
Well... have lots of convos like those in spamadan, people really annoy me. Also stuff like
Guy: "WTS Silverwing Bow Q13 pm offer"
Me: 27e
Guy: lol noob are you joking?
2 Mins later
Guy: you want for 32e?
Really, what do they think?!
Other thing that really, really pisses me off is ppl obviously trying to scam others like that one day I saw around pretty much during the last time, buying crap Zodiac/Dragon/etc. Staves with no inherent for 5kish, adding a 20hct mod and selling them for xx eish as 20/20 Staves in Spamadan. Same guy I now see buying Canthan Serpent Axes and selling them as tyrians. People be warned.
jm2c
Guy: WTS Echovald Shield q9 -2st/30....
Me: Hi, what's the price on your echovald, it's cut in party search
Guy: b/o is 300e
Me: What's c/o?
Guy: c/o 250e
Me: Sorry, I'll pass then, won't bid more than that, but good luck with your further sale
Guy: How much do you offer? (<--- c/o was probably fake)
Me: I'd have offered 100e or so for it...
Guy: noob
Guy: 100e is for rubbish ones, you maybe need another I have for 100e?
Well... have lots of convos like those in spamadan, people really annoy me. Also stuff like
Guy: "WTS Silverwing Bow Q13 pm offer"
Me: 27e
Guy: lol noob are you joking?
2 Mins later
Guy: you want for 32e?
Really, what do they think?!
Other thing that really, really pisses me off is ppl obviously trying to scam others like that one day I saw around pretty much during the last time, buying crap Zodiac/Dragon/etc. Staves with no inherent for 5kish, adding a 20hct mod and selling them for xx eish as 20/20 Staves in Spamadan. Same guy I now see buying Canthan Serpent Axes and selling them as tyrians. People be warned.
jm2c
system.fan
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Louis1976
Other thing that really, really pisses me off is ppl obviously trying to scam others like that one day I saw around pretty much during the last time, buying crap Zodiac/Dragon/etc. Staves with no inherent for 5kish, adding a 20hct mod and selling them for xx eish as 20/20 Staves in Spamadan. Same guy I now see buying Canthan Serpent Axes and selling them as tyrians. People be warned.
jm2c |
People add a Swift Staffhead hct10% so that it looks like 10/10 prenerf....
And if you tell em you dont need em cause its singlemod they are like: "noob its prenerf they only drop like that" or some bullshit like that...
greetz
tasha
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets
Heres one thing that I do not like:
seller: "WTS yadayada" buyer: "how much?" seller: "offer" I just want a price, even something to work around. |
Voodoo Rage
I think the key theme to this thread is that we are all just fed up with the rudeness and lack of common decency from a lot of these traders. As was already brought up, if you walked into ANY business where the merchant just barks at you "Offer!" and then berates you, that merchant would go out of business in short time. Ultimately that behavior is motivated by greed and the willingness to scam someone who happens to offer way above market value. Yes, there are items that have a variable value due to demand and in those situations an auction format is a more appropriate means to sell. But even in that situation it would be reasonable to tell the buyer, "I'm taking bids on this item over the course of the next [x amount of time], feel free to make be an offer and I will sell to the highest bidder."
I remember a few months ago (I posted this in the "Stupid thing you saw in GW" thread), I had the prototypical rude power seller conversation that you have all posting. It went something like this:
Him: WTS Q6 AR14 Sharktooth Shield
Me: Do you have an asking price on that shield?
Him: Offer
Me: I really have no idea what those types of shields are worth but I am willing to pay a reasonable price, can't you give me a price?
Him: No, offer
Me: uh... how about 25k?
Him. bb noob
And then he puts me on IGNORE. What a prick.
I remember a few months ago (I posted this in the "Stupid thing you saw in GW" thread), I had the prototypical rude power seller conversation that you have all posting. It went something like this:
Him: WTS Q6 AR14 Sharktooth Shield
Me: Do you have an asking price on that shield?
Him: Offer
Me: I really have no idea what those types of shields are worth but I am willing to pay a reasonable price, can't you give me a price?
Him: No, offer
Me: uh... how about 25k?
Him. bb noob
And then he puts me on IGNORE. What a prick.
Captain Krompdown
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tasha
Whatever happened to haggling?
|
It used to be that the market was much more fragmented when it comes to information and opinion. That left much more room for haggling because people were able to convince each other of the (lack of) value of a particular item. Now, the markets are more set because sites like this (and several of its nameless luminaries) have put a lot of time and energy into making the markets.
Even better, the success of sites like this opens the door for sellers and buyers to PRETEND that there's a consensus on the value of an item. People can always allude to a site or group of people who have established a price for an item (but somehow are never actually BUYING this item for that price).
All of these forces (and probably others) are, in my mind, behind the demise of haggling in Guild Wars.
/rant
Luke D
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Twilno
Don't know if this is a common problem or if its just me, but I get a lot of buyers who will agree to an offer, open the trade window, and then submit a price lower than the agreed upon offer. Then when I correct them, they try haggle for a lower price. Usually it goes something like this:
Me: WTS something for 20k Buyer: I'll buy it. *Buyer opens trade window, submits 15k* Me:The price was 20k. Buyer: Oh, well I only have 15k. *I close trade window* Buyer: OMG, fine I will pay 17.5k. |
BuD
It irritates me when I see someone totally low balling the trade chat trying to take advantage of someone/anyone that has no idea what the worth of some items are...
WTB Red Rock Candies 100g ea
I guess all is fair in trading in GW, it still disgusts me though >.<
WTB Red Rock Candies 100g ea
I guess all is fair in trading in GW, it still disgusts me though >.<
system.fan
Gaaawd just remembered another thing when i was in Kamadan:
You offer something and got EVERYTHING the ppl have to know in your add....
And then always those stupid question: "can i see?'... and you know he will never buy it lol
if you say ok and show him the sword.... he looks at it for like 10minutes, then stops trade and doesnt say any word.
if yoi say something like "no, i told u all you have to know" you get answers like.... fu noob, or they start trading you all the time like they don't understand what no means...
You offer something and got EVERYTHING the ppl have to know in your add....
And then always those stupid question: "can i see?'... and you know he will never buy it lol
if you say ok and show him the sword.... he looks at it for like 10minutes, then stops trade and doesnt say any word.
if yoi say something like "no, i told u all you have to know" you get answers like.... fu noob, or they start trading you all the time like they don't understand what no means...
jimbo32
I think I've detected a pattern with that sort of thing, system.fan.
The people who say "show" or "show staff" or whatever *never* buy anything (in my experience anyway). But if someone says "can I please see the sword?" (or something equally sensible), they are generally buyers - although sometimes your item isn't exactly what they're looking for.
Depending on my mood, if someone whispers "show", I'll sometimes reply with "a please would be nice". That usually results in either flaming or silence, but they're just time-wasters anyway. My friend who sells cars calls people like that "Tire-kickers" - no intention whatsoever of buying, but they have no problems with wasting people's time.
The people who say "show" or "show staff" or whatever *never* buy anything (in my experience anyway). But if someone says "can I please see the sword?" (or something equally sensible), they are generally buyers - although sometimes your item isn't exactly what they're looking for.
Depending on my mood, if someone whispers "show", I'll sometimes reply with "a please would be nice". That usually results in either flaming or silence, but they're just time-wasters anyway. My friend who sells cars calls people like that "Tire-kickers" - no intention whatsoever of buying, but they have no problems with wasting people's time.