Okay, so I've done both Pve and PvP for a while, but with most of my time spent on PvP. I've noticed that a lot of players would rather have PVX builds than to PUG, while others would rather PUG than have to resort to using PVX builds.
While I could agree that each has its pros and cons, can you all explain to me what side you are on and why? Personally, I'm in the PVX side because I really don't like pugs and I'm used to high-end pvp.
Edit: I tried searching throughout the riverside inn threads for any topics similar to this. I didn't find any, but feel free to take this thread down if there are.
PUGing vs PvxWiki
Asianinvasion
FengShuiDove
...this should really be about Hero/Hench (H/H) vs. PUGing, because either way you're going to see PvX stuff. It used to be that in a PUG you were pretty much required to run a PvX bar or something similar, but things may have improved with the Zaishen Quests, I don't really know. A lot of folks also take their hero bars from PvX, like a standard Discordway or Spiritway or whatever.
Ultimately, I like to H/H more than PUG most of the time just because it's faster. I don't, however, solely depend on PvX, as I find it fun to modify builds and come up with new combinations.
So, as far as your original question goes, I can't really answer, since PvX and PUGs aren't mutually exclusive.
Ultimately, I like to H/H more than PUG most of the time just because it's faster. I don't, however, solely depend on PvX, as I find it fun to modify builds and come up with new combinations.
So, as far as your original question goes, I can't really answer, since PvX and PUGs aren't mutually exclusive.
Dark-NighT
Most people i pug with want something of pvx, especially when heroes are involved. Which has sort of put me off pugs because i have my own builds that work great, and while sabway and discord is very effective, it doesnt bring much variation to combat and makes the game dull after a while.
I didnt unlock every skill on my account just to run the same build forever, i experiment with just about everything, sometimes it fails, sometimes it just rocks, but its never dull.
I didnt unlock every skill on my account just to run the same build forever, i experiment with just about everything, sometimes it fails, sometimes it just rocks, but its never dull.
Asianinvasion
I agree with you in the pve aspect of things. In fact, I also like to H/H and use team builds like spiritway and sabway. The main problem for me is in pvp, mainly low-end pvp. Sure, I could always do some high-end pvp, but in between big games, I'd like to chill out while playing low-end stuff, you know? Its just painful for me to see players arguing and divided when it comes to play styles.
I mean, down in AB, you just don't see people play nukeway, mooway, or AB pressureway anymore. They really just go all out with their PUGs and hope for the best. I also feel some sort of animosity between players who DO use Wiki and people who don't. For example, if someone were to go into AB and ask to be in a Nukeway group, they'd get ridiculed for "relying" on wiki.Likewise, if a person were to ask to be in a PUG group, the guys who use Wiki would ridicule them for having "no skillz".
Its just dumb how players argue about this kind of stuff, and the reason why I made this thread was to get a good grasp of what players think, so that we, along with anet, could find some way to end this ridiculous debate.
I mean, down in AB, you just don't see people play nukeway, mooway, or AB pressureway anymore. They really just go all out with their PUGs and hope for the best. I also feel some sort of animosity between players who DO use Wiki and people who don't. For example, if someone were to go into AB and ask to be in a Nukeway group, they'd get ridiculed for "relying" on wiki.Likewise, if a person were to ask to be in a PUG group, the guys who use Wiki would ridicule them for having "no skillz".
Its just dumb how players argue about this kind of stuff, and the reason why I made this thread was to get a good grasp of what players think, so that we, along with anet, could find some way to end this ridiculous debate.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Miss Presler
Most people i pug with want something of pvx, especially when heroes are involved. Which has sort of put me off pugs because i have my own builds that work great, and while sabway and discord is very effective, it doesnt bring much variation to combat and makes the game dull after a while.
I didnt unlock every skill on my account just to run the same build forever, i experiment with just about everything, sometimes it fails, sometimes it just rocks, but its never dull. |
As I've probably said about forty bajillion times here, PvX's purpose is to provide a template of the meta, not to control or dictate it. Guild Wars is a game, and people should always be innovative and creative when it comes to playing it. Loading up Discoway to do every single area of the game is boring, and often ineffective if you understand even the basics of the game.
So...yeah...try to think of us more like that.
Isfit
Humans during ZQ and Wanted Quest mostly suck because this quest bring out the newbs who only do HM just for this... (Like DaO today)
Though sometimes you may get lucky and get a good group, which knows what to do, then you are much much faster then with any Hero-Build
I nevertheless play with PUGs for these quests, because I like human companionship more than dumb bots.
Though sometimes you may get lucky and get a good group, which knows what to do, then you are much much faster then with any Hero-Build
I nevertheless play with PUGs for these quests, because I like human companionship more than dumb bots.
Cuilan
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| As I've probably said about forty bajillion times here, PvX's purpose is to provide a template of the meta, not to control or dictate it. Guild Wars is a game, and people should always be innovative and creative when it comes to playing it. |
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
If that's so, then how about putting a front page about/disclaimer?
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Cuilan
You think people have enough common sense, but you bother yourself to defend PvX when they don't. Either that or they really see what's happening.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
You think people have enough common sense, but you bother yourself to defend PvX when they don't. Either that or they really see what's happening.
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Rhamia Darigaz
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
If that's so, then how about putting a front page about/disclaimer?
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Cuilan
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Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz
lol, and what is that supposed to do? instantly make everyone who goes to PvX think "Oh, we don't have to use these, maybe i'll let that random player with terrible but 'original' builds into my PUG next time"?
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I never said players should use bad builds.
Quaker
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Originally Posted by Asianinvasion
I've noticed that a lot of players would rather have PVX builds than to PUG, while others would rather PUG than have to resort to using PVX builds.
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PUG = Pick Up Group
PVX = a build wiki
The two things are only related by the fact they both have to do with Guild Wars.
If I was to take a wild guess, I would say that, by PUG you mean "a non-wiki" build. And, in that case I would say that I PUG - the only times I go to PvXwiki is to get an idea of what skills a build is based around and then develop my own variation. Beyond that, I always "roll my own".
I do think that way too many people rely too heavily on PvX. And, too often they have no idea of what's important to the build and what can be modified. Also, way to many people have become "PvX Nazis" - they think that only PvX builds are "good" builds and the rest must be "bad".
Voodoo Rage
If you click the Discussion page on most of the builds on PVX, you will see that there is TONS of variations for posted builds. It is ridiculous for anyone to enforce any build on PVX as being some sort of gold standard that must be enforced. The reality of this game is that people are individuals and not every build fits every person's playing style. Also, a lot of people forget that there is a pretty drastic difference in how you would design a build for a team in NM vs. HM. My dirty little secret is that I actually play NM most of the time and I've found that most PVX builds are ridiculously overly defensive in NM where you pretty much can roll through and blow things up as fast as you can.
Kook~NBK~
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
If you click the Discussion page on most of the builds on PVX, you will see that there is TONS of variations for posted builds.
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Autumn Crocus
Playing with henchies is kinda challenging, but sometimes I feel like playing with others. I think its really fun when you find a great team to play with. And then there are PUGs that cannot complete even the easiest mission together. I like them both.
I guess I prefer henchies. Its the challenge that I like most.
I guess I prefer henchies. Its the challenge that I like most.
WhiteAsIce
PvX is a tyranny. All builds that are up are made by admins and favored by the rest. Any build that the admins don't like are quickly trashed. Therefore any build on PvX is unoriginal and the work of egotistical maniacs who think their shit is the best of all time. OF ALL TIME.
Chthon
Hmmm.....
Would I rather bash myself in the face with a nail bat while sitting on a rabid porcupine with leprosy, or bash myself in the face with a rabid porcupine with leprosy while sitting on a nail bat?
Decisions, decisions...
Would I rather bash myself in the face with a nail bat while sitting on a rabid porcupine with leprosy, or bash myself in the face with a rabid porcupine with leprosy while sitting on a nail bat?
Decisions, decisions...
Elu Arina
This is a non-issue. When you PUG, be prepared for fail. If they don't completely suck, enjoy it; you got lucky.
PvX wiki, on the other hand, really just reflects the state of the game. Common builds end up there. The only bearing this has on pugging, is that a PUG who knows half-way what they're doing is more likely to be running a wiki build. There's nothing wrong with that; they are good builds.
PvX wiki, on the other hand, really just reflects the state of the game. Common builds end up there. The only bearing this has on pugging, is that a PUG who knows half-way what they're doing is more likely to be running a wiki build. There's nothing wrong with that; they are good builds.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce
PvX is a tyranny. All builds that are up are made by admins and favored by the rest. Any build that the admins don't like are quickly trashed. Therefore any build on PvX is unoriginal and the work of egotistical maniacs who think their shit is the best of all time. OF ALL TIME.
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But....whatever....
Lord Dagon
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Originally Posted by Elu Arina
This is a non-issue. When you PUG, be prepared for fail. If they don't completely suck, enjoy it; you got lucky.
PvX wiki, on the other hand, really just reflects the state of the game. Common builds end up there. The only bearing this has on pugging, is that a PUG who knows half-way what they're doing is more likely to be running a wiki build. There's nothing wrong with that; they are good builds. |
the 2 arent mutally exsculsive. and the builds typically have room for variation to allow quick sucess(like i run we shall return and fallback along w/ some good defesneive paragon skills attached to my MMs good heals and such)
so yea just depends on how you roll.
luauelveneno
PVX is overrated. If anyone has a build not coming from PVX and you will pug and people start whine that it aint PVX build then dont play witht them as the build most likely will just work as good as an PVX build (exceptions are always there ofc.)
As for me i do not use pvx at all. i make my builds myself or my guildies have. and yeah it works just as good as any build from pvx.
As for me i do not use pvx at all. i make my builds myself or my guildies have. and yeah it works just as good as any build from pvx.
Wish Swiftdeath
Yeah I get kinda annoyed when people ask me why I have prot skills on my HB bar as a monk... I mean clearly Patient Spirit, Dwayna's Kiss and Cure hex aren't enough healing. I should drop Protective Spirit and Shield of Absorption because that has NO synergy with Seed of Life amirite?
People need to be less bad and realize that PvX is a BASIC BUILD and that you can adapt/modify it depending on the situation/your preference.
I can understand changing certain skills if people ask me to and give me a sound reason but asking me to change skills because it's not on the pvx mainbar is just retarded.
People need to be less bad and realize that PvX is a BASIC BUILD and that you can adapt/modify it depending on the situation/your preference.
I can understand changing certain skills if people ask me to and give me a sound reason but asking me to change skills because it's not on the pvx mainbar is just retarded.
Spiritz
Cool it guys - the original post was about pvx and pugs and not an attack on pvx`s admins nor their way of running things.And KJ being staff on pvx will support them ( called loyalty ) same as those loyal to guru will always defend guru.
Regardless of how gd or bad pvx or how its run - pvx can be usefull for getting ideas on builds be them good or bad to players own feelings.
Regardless of how gd or bad pvx or how its run - pvx can be usefull for getting ideas on builds be them good or bad to players own feelings.
Saint Scarlet
Most of my guild and alliance don't use PvX builds as we prefer to use our own expertise to come up with builds that will work with the particular team we have. Sure some of the builds posted on PvX work well but i can guarantee there are far better builds out there. The main problem with alot of people in pugs is they have either some crackpot build that works for them but doesn't sync with what the rest of the team have or they have this copy paste PvX build that they just haven't taken the time to learn how to use.
Several times me and my friend have put them to the test and my generic 3 hero and me team build can do most things quicker and easier than my friends h/h PvX build. Does this prove anything in particular? not really just the fact that i spent a few months perfecting my team build and learnt how and where to use it, whereas my friend pulled his off PvX and like most people thought now i have the ultimate build i'm unstoppable.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter where the build comes from, it's who is using it and how experienced they are at using said build in the particular area they are in.
Several times me and my friend have put them to the test and my generic 3 hero and me team build can do most things quicker and easier than my friends h/h PvX build. Does this prove anything in particular? not really just the fact that i spent a few months perfecting my team build and learnt how and where to use it, whereas my friend pulled his off PvX and like most people thought now i have the ultimate build i'm unstoppable.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter where the build comes from, it's who is using it and how experienced they are at using said build in the particular area they are in.
iTzF3aR
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Originally Posted by Asianinvasion
Okay, so I've done both Pve and PvP for a while, but with most of my time spent on PvP. I've noticed that a lot of players would rather have PVX builds than to PUG, while others would rather PUG than have to resort to using PVX builds.
While I could agree that each has its pros and cons, can you all explain to me what side you are on and why? Personally, I'm in the PVX side because I really don't like pugs and I'm used to high-end pvp. Edit: I tried searching throughout the riverside inn threads for any topics similar to this. I didn't find any, but feel free to take this thread down if there are. |
Ka Tet
I think the reason people look for pvx builds is b/c there are many people who aren't capable of making competent builds on their own. Also in the short time during pug formation, it can be hard to tell at a glance which builds are crackhead builds and which are actually solid builds when you've never seen them before.
I tend to favor homemade builds- that often look confusing until you've messed around with them, but I have also spent several years buildmaking. A pug will have no idea about what quality of player or buildmaker I am, so I can understand why people would prefer that I ran a pvx build if they don't know me. I'm not going to, but I can understand why.
edit: I addressed this entirely towards PVE, because playing with people you don't know in high-end PVP is fail no matter what you run.
I tend to favor homemade builds- that often look confusing until you've messed around with them, but I have also spent several years buildmaking. A pug will have no idea about what quality of player or buildmaker I am, so I can understand why people would prefer that I ran a pvx build if they don't know me. I'm not going to, but I can understand why.
edit: I addressed this entirely towards PVE, because playing with people you don't know in high-end PVP is fail no matter what you run.
snaek
apparently any thread containing the word 'pvx' devolves into pvx bashing.
pvx is a great database and a great resource. its only the nazi elitists that give pvx wiki a bad name (probably because they're buthurt from losing at build wars).
pvx is a great database and a great resource. its only the nazi elitists that give pvx wiki a bad name (probably because they're buthurt from losing at build wars).
Silmar Alech
I don't care from where someone's build originates. If it is good, and he is familiar with it, he should play it. I don't recognize builds als "pvx-builds", because I don't learn the builds from pvx by heart. In fact, there are so many builds on pvx, it is very often not possible for a non-expert to find an appropriate build for the current task.
Usually, it is possible to get an idea if a pinged build could work or will not work. I look at energy costs/management, damage output or damage mitigation potential, AoE potential, obvious skill synergy, team synergy. If I see no contradictions, any build passing this test is ok, being self-made or pvx.
If we play with a frontliner as tank, aoe-dot skills are forbidden. If we play hm, someone with protective spirit should be on board. Searing Flames without Glyph, Attunement, Glowing Gaze lacks energy-management. A Warrior with 480 health should remove his major/superior runes. A non-necro build with only 10 or 15 energy skills and no energy management skill cannot function without external energy supply (which is not generally available).
For all this you don't need knowledge about pvx. You only need knowledge about the classes and the game mechanics.
Usually, it is possible to get an idea if a pinged build could work or will not work. I look at energy costs/management, damage output or damage mitigation potential, AoE potential, obvious skill synergy, team synergy. If I see no contradictions, any build passing this test is ok, being self-made or pvx.
If we play with a frontliner as tank, aoe-dot skills are forbidden. If we play hm, someone with protective spirit should be on board. Searing Flames without Glyph, Attunement, Glowing Gaze lacks energy-management. A Warrior with 480 health should remove his major/superior runes. A non-necro build with only 10 or 15 energy skills and no energy management skill cannot function without external energy supply (which is not generally available).
For all this you don't need knowledge about pvx. You only need knowledge about the classes and the game mechanics.