PUGing vs PvxWiki

Okay, so I've done both Pve and PvP for a while, but with most of my time spent on PvP. I've noticed that a lot of players would rather have PVX builds than to PUG, while others would rather PUG than have to resort to using PVX builds.

While I could agree that each has its pros and cons, can you all explain to me what side you are on and why? Personally, I'm in the PVX side because I really don't like pugs and I'm used to high-end pvp.



Edit: I tried searching throughout the riverside inn threads for any topics similar to this. I didn't find any, but feel free to take this thread down if there are.

...this should really be about Hero/Hench (H/H) vs. PUGing, because either way you're going to see PvX stuff. It used to be that in a PUG you were pretty much required to run a PvX bar or something similar, but things may have improved with the Zaishen Quests, I don't really know. A lot of folks also take their hero bars from PvX, like a standard Discordway or Spiritway or whatever.

Ultimately, I like to H/H more than PUG most of the time just because it's faster. I don't, however, solely depend on PvX, as I find it fun to modify builds and come up with new combinations.

So, as far as your original question goes, I can't really answer, since PvX and PUGs aren't mutually exclusive.

Most people i pug with want something of pvx, especially when heroes are involved. Which has sort of put me off pugs because i have my own builds that work great, and while sabway and discord is very effective, it doesnt bring much variation to combat and makes the game dull after a while.

I didnt unlock every skill on my account just to run the same build forever, i experiment with just about everything, sometimes it fails, sometimes it just rocks, but its never dull.

I agree with you in the pve aspect of things. In fact, I also like to H/H and use team builds like spiritway and sabway. The main problem for me is in pvp, mainly low-end pvp. Sure, I could always do some high-end pvp, but in between big games, I'd like to chill out while playing low-end stuff, you know? Its just painful for me to see players arguing and divided when it comes to play styles.

I mean, down in AB, you just don't see people play nukeway, mooway, or AB pressureway anymore. They really just go all out with their PUGs and hope for the best. I also feel some sort of animosity between players who DO use Wiki and people who don't. For example, if someone were to go into AB and ask to be in a Nukeway group, they'd get ridiculed for "relying" on wiki.Likewise, if a person were to ask to be in a PUG group, the guys who use Wiki would ridicule them for having "no skillz".

Its just dumb how players argue about this kind of stuff, and the reason why I made this thread was to get a good grasp of what players think, so that we, along with anet, could find some way to end this ridiculous debate.

I would suggest that this is the best way to use PvX.

As I've probably said about forty bajillion times here, PvX's purpose is to provide a template of the meta, not to control or dictate it. Guild Wars is a game, and people should always be innovative and creative when it comes to playing it. Loading up Discoway to do every single area of the game is boring, and often ineffective if you understand even the basics of the game.

So...yeah...try to think of us more like that.

Humans during ZQ and Wanted Quest mostly suck because this quest bring out the newbs who only do HM just for this... (Like DaO today)
Though sometimes you may get lucky and get a good group, which knows what to do, then you are much much faster then with any Hero-Build
I nevertheless play with PUGs for these quests, because I like human companionship more than dumb bots.

If that's so, then how about putting a front page about/disclaimer?

That would be asinine. I like to think that people have enough common sense to understand that they can use builds in whichever way they like. However, we just store the builds, we don't dictate how others should use them in-game. So, if someone uses a build as a crux, then that's their right to do.

You think people have enough common sense, but you bother yourself to defend PvX when they don't. Either that or they really see what's happening.

MSN me if you want to argue about this, but there will be no notice put up on PvX to tell people how they should use builds. We're not the fcking dictators of builds.

lol, and what is that supposed to do? instantly make everyone who goes to PvX think "Oh, we don't have to use these, maybe i'll let that random player with terrible but 'original' builds into my PUG next time"?

Communication.

I never said players should use bad builds.

Um.. whuh? Even after reading the whole thread and your later posts, I still don't quite know what the *bleep* you're talking about, exactly.

PUG = Pick Up Group
PVX = a build wiki
The two things are only related by the fact they both have to do with Guild Wars.

If I was to take a wild guess, I would say that, by PUG you mean "a non-wiki" build. And, in that case I would say that I PUG - the only times I go to PvXwiki is to get an idea of what skills a build is based around and then develop my own variation. Beyond that, I always "roll my own".

I do think that way too many people rely too heavily on PvX. And, too often they have no idea of what's important to the build and what can be modified. Also, way to many people have become "PvX Nazis" - they think that only PvX builds are "good" builds and the rest must be "bad".

If you click the Discussion page on most of the builds on PVX, you will see that there is TONS of variations for posted builds. It is ridiculous for anyone to enforce any build on PVX as being some sort of gold standard that must be enforced. The reality of this game is that people are individuals and not every build fits every person's playing style. Also, a lot of people forget that there is a pretty drastic difference in how you would design a build for a team in NM vs. HM. My dirty little secret is that I actually play NM most of the time and I've found that most PVX builds are ridiculously overly defensive in NM where you pretty much can roll through and blow things up as fast as you can.

A lot of the posted builds are nothing more than 5, or even 4, skills that have some sort of synergy with 3 (or 4) "optional" slots for other skills of the player's choice. It makes no sense to me that these "builds" get an Excellent rating when a player can completely screw up the end product (a full 8-skill bar) by filling in those optional slots with crap.

Playing with henchies is kinda challenging, but sometimes I feel like playing with others. I think its really fun when you find a great team to play with. And then there are PUGs that cannot complete even the easiest mission together. I like them both.

I guess I prefer henchies. Its the challenge that I like most.

PvX is a tyranny. All builds that are up are made by admins and favored by the rest. Any build that the admins don't like are quickly trashed. Therefore any build on PvX is unoriginal and the work of egotistical maniacs who think their shit is the best of all time. OF ALL TIME.

Hmmm.....
Would I rather bash myself in the face with a nail bat while sitting on a rabid porcupine with leprosy, or bash myself in the face with a rabid porcupine with leprosy while sitting on a nail bat?
Decisions, decisions...

This is a non-issue. When you PUG, be prepared for fail. If they don't completely suck, enjoy it; you got lucky.

PvX wiki, on the other hand, really just reflects the state of the game. Common builds end up there. The only bearing this has on pugging, is that a PUG who knows half-way what they're doing is more likely to be running a wiki build. There's nothing wrong with that; they are good builds.

Wow. Um...ok. First of all, rarely any of our admins make builds. A few will copy what they see in obs and post it, but that's about it. We have one PvE admin who's posted a few SC's and things, but they weren't made by her. They were made by guilds who specialize in those areas.

But....whatever....