Sinway?

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14 Jul 2010 at 23:13 - 1

Hello (:

I started playing again, and decided to make a new assasin. A year ago, I almost used on each character discord: just because it was easy. But I tried it again on my assasin, its rather a ''suckish'' hero set up I noticed.

What my question is: What is the best set-up for heroes, if the 'leader' is a melee character?

On pvx wiki I found this one..
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...ical_Hero_Team
Is this one good as it is? Does it need any improvements?
OR u know an even BETTER set-up (:?

all advises are more than welcome so post as much as u can :')

IGN: I hate squirtle

Marty Silverblade

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14 Jul 2010 at 23:30 - 2

That team is a pretty good setup. Haven't run the E/N so I don't know how good it is. It definitely looks solid, but whether it justifies a slot is another matter. You might also want to consider running heal/prot on the ER Ele rather than blood/curses; it's more powerful than a full heal monk and a full prot monk put together. There should be several variants floating around on PvX.

Voodoo Rage

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Geezers

15 Jul 2010 at 01:02 - 3

That's almost exactly what I run on my warrior.

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15 Jul 2010 at 09:47 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade View Post

You might also want to consider running heal/prot on the ER Ele rather than blood/curses.

How about this one?
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:E/Mo_ER_Prot_Hero
instead of the E/N, though it won't give me the buff of OoP as physical character...

Quote: Nah. Everything up to the Perfected Armor's group is a breeze, but there's just so many groups in succession there that it'd be difficult to do with a decent full party, let alone a 6-man party with the worst henchies in the entire game. With a full conset and a summoning stone I could probably pull it off, but I didn't feel like spending the time/money.

NM isn't difficult, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

if you don't micro the MB, I never understood what micro means... I thought it was something with controlling his skills, or something like it. But can u explain it to me?

And is there maybe a better hero than, instead of a MB?

N I T E Stalker

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15 Jul 2010 at 10:12 - 5

What you posted is pretty a good set-up for heroes. I use 2 different kinds of set-ups you might find them useful.

3 necros:
OABCUsxEQzUQJjCIaQVFewWI - Flesh Golem MM.
OAhiYwhMZtJNN50sNONMlAWVBA - Xinrae's Healer.
OABCY8xUeglQZAiQdwuTCYVF - SS Necro

2 Rits , 1 Para:
OACjEuiMpNXzyJGzbyMHnU7qJA - SoS
OACiAyk8gNhmWvw5jLz9NdmA - ST
OQCjUmmMaOhff8D2Cvj5xsY5NA - Imbagon hero.

(those are the templates)

Dzjudz

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15 Jul 2010 at 10:22 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips View Post

I never understood what micro means... I thought it was something with controlling his skills, or something like it. But can u explain it to me? Micro is short for micromanagement, meaning in this case indeed that you control the movement (by flagging) and skill use (by using the hero skill bar) of your hero(es).

Often, when you are using a hero with minions, they will lag a bit behind, especially if they have Death Nova on their bar. This means they will be late to battle and so will their minions. A solution is to flag the hero in aggro range of the enemy so the minions who are following the hero will aggro and run into battle. Another solution is to disable Death Nova between battles.

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15 Jul 2010 at 16:42 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by N I T E Stalker

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15 Jul 2010 at 17:04 - 8

Does that ''amazing'' ER prot healer need microing?

syphonus

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15 Jul 2010 at 18:36 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

Does that ''amazing'' ER prot healer need microing? Not unless you count micro'ing PS. You should be doing that anyway.

I've never been a fan of using an Orders hero to buff just one team member. Bringing a Smiting hero means you can drop SoH and the rest off Xandra and stick a few resto skills on there; while maintaining a 16 spec SoH from the monk, as well as a ludicrously strong Smite Hex and RoJ. Getting a 15 or so splinter weapon is pretty awesome as well.

This is what I'm using currently; apart from Duncan I've H/H'd every HM dungeon with this, easily.

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15 Jul 2010 at 18:59 - 10

What is the 7th skill on ur bar?
And would it be usefull for me to use SY, since I only have rank 1...?
Replace with what?

syphonus

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15 Jul 2010 at 19:09 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips View Post

What is the 7th skill on ur bar?
And would it be usefull for me to use SY, since I only have rank 1...?
Replace with what? Don't replace it. There's only a 2 second difference between min and max ranks anyway, and it's the most important skill any melee character can bring.

The 7th skill is Critical Agility. It provides 33% IAS and 20+ armor and renews itself every time you land a critical hit. You can get it from the hero skill trainer in Kamadan, I believe.

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15 Jul 2010 at 19:49 - 12

Thank you (: just got the skill, only need SY and asuran scan, and than my bar is complete. Also got my ER prot now, 2 heroes left (:

My combination now is:
OgNDwcPPP1CaRARLWPqb3VSC
OACjEuiMpNXTMW50byMncSzLGA
OwUS4YIP+MrPe1l0DyAV/5B
Tell whats needs to be changed (:

syphonus

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15 Jul 2010 at 21:57 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

My combination now is:
OgNDwcPPP1CaRARLWPqb3VSC
OACjEuiMpNXTMW50byMncSzLGA
OwUS4YIP+MrPe1l0DyAV/5B
Tell whats needs to be changed (: You're gonna want to drop some points into Inspiration on that monk. I put 8 on mine.

The ER looks fine, although Infuse makes it too fragile imo. It's nice to have, but somewhat risky; decide for yourself if it's worth it or not. If you lose it I'd replace it with DKiss, probably. You might actually want a spot heal anyway, just in case things get rough and you need health back fast.

Shield Guardian is only on the bar as a spammable skill to keep energy up, as far as I can tell. Sadly, AI doesn't work like that and won't keep using it back to back if it's low on energy. I'd say it's pretty much useless, but you don't have to worry too much about energy anyway.

If I used a hero healer It'd look like this:
OgNDwbrvO1CaxG51FQqHaR6B

I'd put Life Attunement on himself and maybe one or two other casters. Or just replace it with Patient Spirit or SoA. Extinguish is there because it's a baller condition remover; use it for condition-heavy areas where MBAS on Xandra isn't enough. (Read: Everywhere)

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16 Jul 2010 at 20:03 - 14

syphonus

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17 Jul 2010 at 13:09 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

My Ritualist with his build keeps losing energy too fast...
And i got a bit problem with getting rid of hexes? any suggestions?
OAmjEiispOXTMW50byMncSzdMA
OwUTMQHD1xnZ9xrukeQGo6PPAA
OgNDwbrvO1CaxGpiEQqHaR6B Try Convert Hexes instead of Mend Ailment.
I'm actually surprised that your ritualist is having energy problems, Spirit Siphon is usually enough for me. Maybe Fall Back is taxing him too much?

EDIT: Also, consider bringing Eve with you. Mark of Fury means more SY-- and she brings Blood Ritual too.

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17 Jul 2010 at 14:34 - 16

syphonus

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17 Jul 2010 at 15:35 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

I see him using spirit siphon when he hasnt spirits around him... maybe thats why? does it need micro? But if I put mend ailment away, what do I need for condition remover? Or should I replace fall back with power drain? and invest in inspiration magic.. You got me. I'm stumped. No, it doesn't need micro; try getting rid of Fall Back and see how he does. If you really, really need more e-management then drop the resto skills and replace with leech sig and power drain-- but you shouldn't!

As for condition removal-- MBAS should do an alright job by itself; if you need more than that you can drop Life Attunement on the ER for it.

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17 Jul 2010 at 15:44 - 18

Aah okay I'll try that, without fall back (: I hope it will work, any suggestions for the 8th skill (instead of fall back)?

syphonus

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17 Jul 2010 at 18:14 - 19

Not really. A hard rez can't hurt.

IrisLee

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Mo/

19 Jul 2010 at 09:59 - 20

If you don't find anything that works out with the Rit, it may be a good choice using N/Rt seeing as they have good e-Management from their Primary Attribute.

Dzjudz

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19 Jul 2010 at 13:38 - 21

On my sin, I usually use a smiting monk like syphonus posted, an ER prot hero like in the pvx link above (though with Mend Ailment instead of Shield Guardian) and a N/Mo Jagged Bomber like syphonus posted with Dwayna's Sorrow and Cure Hex (both healing prayers) instead of the prot skills (since the ER prot is sufficient). I don't find hero spirit spammers very efficient. Also, on the sin build I'd rather use Fox's Promise (in areas with block stances etc.) or Flashing Blades, but that's personal preference (WotA doesn't add to attack speed and the added critical hit chance isn't need imo).

Voodoo Rage

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Geezers

19 Jul 2010 at 14:48 - 22

This thread inspired me to roll a sin this weekend. Anyone use the elite [Wastrel's Collapse]?

"Shadow Step to target foe. If that foe is not using a skill, that foe is knocked down. All your non-dagger attack skills are disabled for 10 seconds."

It seemed like my biggest beef with melee in general is that I would get hit with some sort of movement hex or cripple before I could even get to the target. I also noticed that many times I would use Death's Charge but my target would ignore me and I'd still have to chase them down. With the elite, you can charge right in and knock them down almost every time.

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19 Jul 2010 at 16:39 - 23

But i really like splinter weapon from my Rit hero ;( will try if jagged bomber is better....

and at wastrel collapse.. not big fan of it, i like way of the assasin, since it gives u easy energy management because of the criticals u hit. also will try out wastrel collapse. want to make it as good as possible, will try out tonight and will post my results here so u can adjust any problems (:

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19 Jul 2010 at 18:36 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz View Post

Also, on the sin build I'd rather use Fox's Promise (in areas with block stances etc.) or Flashing Blades, but that's personal preference (WotA doesn't add to attack speed and the added critical hit chance isn't need imo). You'd be surprised. WotA gives you enough energy to maintain Scan on every enemy, in addition to the 10 or so extra DPS you gain. Flashing Blades doesn't give you that. MS doesn't, either.

With the setup I gave, it's common to see Death Blossoms hitting for over 300 damage, and every attack skill hitting in the hundreds- AoE damage not included.

Of everything, the Rt is without a doubt the most essential character in your party. Spirit spamming is incredibly powerful in PvE; even more so if you flag and lay spirits down before aggro.

Xandra isn't a true spirit spammer, however. Her purpose is to support the frontline with Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage, while keeping blind off him with MBAS, and maintaining energy with Spirit Siphon. The damage her spirits do is considerable and synergizes well with the rest of her build, and provides a solid body-blocking wall as well. A primary Rt's Splinter Weapon is leaps and bounds better than a secondary's.

Of everything you could stand to lose, I'd say the ER is first in line. A microable PS on you is really all you need; You generally don't need prots if the mob is already dead.

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19 Jul 2010 at 19:22 - 25

so ur saying a jagged bomber isnt better then Xandra?

syphonus

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19 Jul 2010 at 19:53 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

so ur saying a jagged bomber isnt better then Xandra? Certainly not. MM's are conditional, you can lay spirits down anywhere. And a MM means no Splinter Weapon, and that's never a good thing.

You don't have to take my word for it, though. Try it yourself.

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20 Jul 2010 at 20:01 - 27

Would this for my RT be good? For even more AoE damage...
OASjcohoIPXTMW50byMlmWiyAA

Voodoo Rage

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20 Jul 2010 at 20:22 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

Would this for my RT be good? For even more AoE damage...
OASjcohoIPXTMW50byMlmWiyAA Too much attribute splits for my tastes.

syphonus

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20 Jul 2010 at 22:01 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Too much attribute splits for my tastes. Agreed; if you want Curses you'd be better off dropping Restoration entirely.
I hesitate to say that Barbs would be overkill for single-target damage, but the casting time and no 40/40 means that you might miss a crucial Splinter Weapon when you need it. If you had energy problems with Fall Back I doubt this will help things, however, you might try this:

OASjcwiM5QXTYMlTeTMTWCMi2BA

[Signet of Spirits][Splinter Weapon][Bloodsong][Ancestors' Rage][Spirit Siphon][Mark of Pain][Defile Defenses][Enfeebling Blood]

I would take a Curses 40/40 with that anyway, to cut down the recharge of MoP a bit.

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21 Jul 2010 at 09:49 - 30

Voodoo Rage

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21 Jul 2010 at 14:35 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

Not unless you count micro'ing PS. You should be doing that anyway.

I've never been a fan of using an Orders hero to buff just one team member. Bringing a Smiting hero means you can drop SoH and the rest off Xandra and stick a few resto skills on there; while maintaining a 16 spec SoH from the monk, as well as a ludicrously strong Smite Hex and RoJ. Getting a 15 or so splinter weapon is pretty awesome as well.

This is what I'm using currently; apart from Duncan I've H/H'd every HM dungeon with this, easily.

I'm currently running this hero setup and I really like it. Dunkoro seems to manage his energy just fine and the added points in smiting is fairly significant for damage.

syphonus

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22 Jul 2010 at 16:27 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

okay will try that (:
Would it be better, if I took 2 healer henchies, put away the ER prot and replace it with a jagged bomber?

OASjcwiM5QXTYMlTeTMTWCMi2B
OwUTMQHD1xnZ9p+ukeQGo6PPAA
OANDUshvSLVVBoBbhvE1DBEVVA

How about this?
Replaced the ER, with jagged bomber.... Any opportunity to take less healing is a good thing; the trick is to find how much you actually need. I generally don't need any more backline than the two hench healers. However, you'll have to bring better means of condition removal if you drop MBAS for Curses. Signet of Removal on the MM might do the trick.

EDIT: as a sidenote, heroes have always managed MoP very badly in my experience. I'm not entirely sure it's worth bringing, unless you disable the skill and micro it.

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22 Jul 2010 at 18:49 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

EDIT: as a sidenote, heroes have always managed MoP very badly in my experience. I'm not entirely sure it's worth bringing, unless you disable the skill and micro it. I already tried MoP out.. Doesn't work that good. It doesn't make any difference, Its better to keep it on resto for extra heal support. In HM I seem to lack some Hex removals, Windrider groups in HM are not that easy to deal with I've noticed..

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22 Jul 2010 at 20:17 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

I already tried MoP out.. Doesn't work that good. It doesn't make any difference, Its better to keep it on resto for extra heal support. In HM I seem to lack some Hex removals, Windrider groups in HM are not that easy to deal with I've noticed.. Really? I'm surprised.. unless you're aggroing more than 2 mobs, you can sort of run over them, like everything else. At least, I do whenever I'm running to Slaver's.

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23 Jul 2010 at 10:21 - 35

syphonus

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23 Jul 2010 at 16:06 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slasher of Darkness

Just a question about syphonus's builds. Do you bring both monk henchies or not? Cause I'm gonna try your stuff out later. I'm presonally running an AotL MB atm with xandra @ 16 spec channeling and 12 in smiting for SoH, and then a WoH or N/Rt healer, But I might try out yours, so do you bring 1 or 2 monk henches? 2, in most areas. Haven't had any trouble in 6-man areas except for BLA HM, because Alesia sucks balls. I haven't tried 4-man areas, but they're generally easy enough that you can swap in an ER if you're having trouble and you'll do fine.

The elite on the MM doesn't really matter. As a rule of thumb, I go AotL when there's lots of corpses, JB when there's not as much, and Empathic Removal/Signet of Removal when I'm having trouble with hexes.

EDIT: Oops. I don't take an MM when there's few or no corpses, fixed.

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24 Jul 2010 at 08:15 - 37

Hmm, alright, I'm just gonna give it a whirl tonight. Thanks.

Life Bringing

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24 Jul 2010 at 09:52 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

2, in most areas. Haven't had any trouble in 6-man areas except for BLA HM, because Alesia sucks balls. I haven't tried 4-man areas, but they're generally easy enough that you can swap in an ER if you're having trouble and you'll do fine.

The elite on the MM doesn't really matter. As a rule of thumb, I go AotL when there's lots of corpses, JB when there's not as much, and Empathic Removal/Signet of Removal when I'm having trouble with hexes.

EDIT: Oops. I don't take an MM when there's few or no corpses, fixed. Were you able to do BLA HM?

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24 Jul 2010 at 12:11 - 39

syphonus

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24 Jul 2010 at 15:28 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing View Post

Were you able to do BLA HM?

Am I doing something wrong?
I use 3 heroes:
Rit SoS
Ele prot
Mo RoJ
+ earth ele
+2 monks
+ melee

I can survive with those 3 healers, but I think im doing something wrong because 3 healers is a bit much.... If I swap my ER prot for a MM its harder for me to survive..
any suggestions what I should change?! What areas are you trying to do? A big part of effectively using the build depends on flagging heroes behind you and taking aggro. In EotN I usually end up taking Eve for Mark of Fury and to support the monks with Blood Ritual.