The ranger class main weapon lack AoE in PvE, being we get a severely limited Barrage.
Makes the following changes to Barrage PvE version:
Doesn't remove preparation
Change adjacent range into nearby
To compensate:
Increase recharge to 3 seconds
Increase energy to 10
This should make ranger aoe much more burstier and quicker.
Improve Ranger's Bow AoE
ZionHikari
dusanyu
Why not just reduce the recharge of insindary arrows back down to one second in PVE
Desert Rose
Not every profession needs a super-duper AoE ability.
Yuna Matsumarui
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Desert Rose said: Not every profession needs a super-duper AoE ability. |
the only AoE we got is barrage, volley and traps.
now who ever uses traps in general PvE (HM)?
this nearby AoE barrage would be OP though, with expertise, and a zealous bowstring you get plenty of energy back from it.. not even mentioning the possible AoE conditions that they were trying to prevent by adding the 'all your preparations are removed'.
Mintha Syl
I think Barrage is fine as it is. We can say bow only has 2 AoE skills, so not really being a AoEr, but I don't really think they're gonna add new skills. And as barrage is highly spammable it would be kind of redundant anyway. Raners would really need a load of improvements, but not this.
@Yuna rangers also got Melandru's assault, if we're not talking about bow dmg (as you mentioned traps) but I know everyone finds it useless (I happen to like it instead).
@Yuna rangers also got Melandru's assault, if we're not talking about bow dmg (as you mentioned traps) but I know everyone finds it useless (I happen to like it instead).
Xsiriss
Yeah ranger's aren't meant for AoE. However, it would be nice if they made Poison Arrow like Incendiary Arrows (reasonable idea), buffed Ignite Arrows a bit (even if it's just less energy and more duration) and buff Practiced Stance so your preparations can't me removed (ie make Volley more useful)
Nubarus
There is something wrong with Splinter Barrage all of a sudden?
The old version of Splinter Weapon made Splinter Barrage Rangers rediculous AoE dmg dealers but now it's fine as it is.
Although I find playing one myself rather dull and boring I have used it in HM PvE just fine.
Also the Great Dwarf Weapon + Barrage is actually pretty funny to watch.
All this moaning about area dmg is really getting old, it seems ppl want every profession to deal massive area dmg or else the class is useless..........time to get over it ppl, lol........
The old version of Splinter Weapon made Splinter Barrage Rangers rediculous AoE dmg dealers but now it's fine as it is.
Although I find playing one myself rather dull and boring I have used it in HM PvE just fine.
Also the Great Dwarf Weapon + Barrage is actually pretty funny to watch.
All this moaning about area dmg is really getting old, it seems ppl want every profession to deal massive area dmg or else the class is useless..........time to get over it ppl, lol........
Yuna Matsumarui
meh, you got your point with melandru's strike, not really all that viable though, if you spec into the most efficient ranger setup, which is imo
12+1+1 expertise
10+1
8+1
with the 11 and 9 being either marksmanship or beast mastery..
I think BM becomes viable @ 14 BM, but that's it.. minions do better bodyblocking, as well as comfort animal taking up 1 skill slot.
if only ignite arrows would be armor ignoring damage, then I'd take it (then it's even viable without incendiary arrows, imo)
12+1+1 expertise
10+1
8+1
with the 11 and 9 being either marksmanship or beast mastery..
I think BM becomes viable @ 14 BM, but that's it.. minions do better bodyblocking, as well as comfort animal taking up 1 skill slot.
if only ignite arrows would be armor ignoring damage, then I'd take it (then it's even viable without incendiary arrows, imo)
Mashiyu
What about Incendiary Arrows + Ignite Arrows + BuH + Splinter/GDW + EBSoH? (The last 3 can/must be brought by a team member.)
Many lil numbers + EBSoH (+ BuH) = win. (Ask eles - they know that)
Many lil numbers + EBSoH (+ BuH) = win. (Ask eles - they know that)
Ranger Jaap
Splinter barrage nuff said. it still works good.
Tenebrae
I hope this is a joke. Dunno whats wrong with some ppl , obssesed with SY! and Barrage like there were no other options.
PS: No , obviously NO, a big one.
PS: No , obviously NO, a big one.
Desert Rose
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Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui
exactly, and that's why rangers don't have one and are nearly useless in pve
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Lanier
Desert Rose is right. Every class does not need a Super duper AoE. Barrage has been like it is forever and there is no reason to change it.
Say NO unnescessary to power creep!
Say NO unnescessary to power creep!
Fusylum
Very Unnecessary...
I think everyone has hit the main points so ill say that rangers pwn stuff anyhow...
I think everyone has hit the main points so ill say that rangers pwn stuff anyhow...
Fusylum
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Originally Posted by Fusylum
Very Unnecessary...
I think everyone has hit the main points so ill say that rangers pwn stuff anyhow... |
and they can do more single target damage then a bear can do to an ant.
Ugh
/notsigned
Improve rituals. Make traps more like their GW2 counterparts. Maybe help out some beast mastery skills.
Don't go making classes do what they aren't supposed to.
Improve rituals. Make traps more like their GW2 counterparts. Maybe help out some beast mastery skills.
Don't go making classes do what they aren't supposed to.
gremlin
I would like a big buff to rangers since I find tham a little limited in some areas but aoe isn't one of them.
If you don't like barrage removing preparations don't use them look for the skills that add to damage that are not removed
Barrage can do around +20 damage add to that a favourable winds spirit and your adding another 6 then take elemental as secondary and even with zero points in the element your adding another 5 which can be boosted to 16 if you put max points into it.
Take Dervish as a secondary and you can do holy damage barrage lethal against undead.
Splinter barrage and ignite arrow etc have been mentioned.
Its not all bad news for the ranger
If you don't like barrage removing preparations don't use them look for the skills that add to damage that are not removed
Barrage can do around +20 damage add to that a favourable winds spirit and your adding another 6 then take elemental as secondary and even with zero points in the element your adding another 5 which can be boosted to 16 if you put max points into it.
Take Dervish as a secondary and you can do holy damage barrage lethal against undead.
Splinter barrage and ignite arrow etc have been mentioned.
Its not all bad news for the ranger
jazilla
Make traps a 1 second casting time. Make Nature Rituals ONLY affect allies OR make them a 1 second casting time like Ritualist spirits. Problem solved and everyone would play Rangers like they were supposed to be played. I would be a trapper for pugs if I could actually use traps in a reasonable amount of time. As it is they don't do enough and why not just use YMLaD? KD, cripple and Damage? In a shout? This and other PvE only skills are totally why traps aren't utilized. Fix it. Also, if traps and Nature Rituals were this way, they wouldn't be OP. They would be in line with the meta right now.
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by Desert Rose
Giving every class a super-duper AoE skill wouldn't change that most classes still be "useless" (read: worse then optimal); it may shift which class is now "useless", but it doesn't increases the number of classes that are not "useless".
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But, honestly, I don't call +20 on nearby targets a super-duper AoE skill. Compared to other (near) AoE's it would still be mediocre, but it would make a mostly useless Elite useful. Not removing preps combined with nearby effect could put it into the super-duper category, nearby-Barrage+FW+Conjure+ignite+EBSoH?.
How 'bout decreasing the recharge on Melandru's Assault? Or it's E-cost? It's not like the +17 Nearby-AoE is so spectacular.
Or decreasing the recharge on Incendiary Arrows?
Commander Kanen
Barrage Or Incendiary Arrows and damage buffs stacked with it is fine imo.
If you dont think that is enough damage. you wanna go look a para that has no true multi target aoe.
If you dont think that is enough damage. you wanna go look a para that has no true multi target aoe.
R_Frost
[QUOTE=Ugh;5200089 Maybe help out some beast mastery skills.[/QUOTE]
i agree with this.
rangers dont need more AoE. thats the problem with the last few updates to the game, the powercreep updates with AoE changes now has everyone wanting more.
Barrage has its place in the game. there has always been one chage ive wanted to see to the skill. current version, All your preparations are removed. Shoot arrows at target foe and up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +5...17...20 damage if they hit.
change i would like to see, All your preparations are removed after next attack. if a preparation was removed recharge increased to 10 seconds. Shoot arrows at target foe and up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +5...17...20 damage if they hit.
i agree with this.
rangers dont need more AoE. thats the problem with the last few updates to the game, the powercreep updates with AoE changes now has everyone wanting more.
Barrage has its place in the game. there has always been one chage ive wanted to see to the skill. current version, All your preparations are removed. Shoot arrows at target foe and up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +5...17...20 damage if they hit.
change i would like to see, All your preparations are removed after next attack. if a preparation was removed recharge increased to 10 seconds. Shoot arrows at target foe and up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +5...17...20 damage if they hit.
Mintha Syl
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
How 'bout decreasing the recharge on Melandru's Assault? Or it's E-cost? It's not like the +17 Nearby-AoE is so spectacular
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IMHO, the main difference between barrage and melandru's, apart the choice between bm and high marks, is barrage is highly spammable, while melandru is not. At equal attribute points they do about the same damage, and melandru's has a larger range, but apart from the problem mentioned above, you don't boost pet damage a lot with buffs like you do on the ranger itself, and what makes barrage useful is also the damage added from splinter etc. It's true barrage is an elite and meladru's is not, but...
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by Yuna Matsumarui
exactly, and that's why rangers don't have one and are nearly useless in pve
the only AoE we got is barrage, volley and traps. |
The fact of the matter is that the ranger can buff their AoE attacks with a ton of armor-ignoring buffs. Eles can't. Barrage on its own does pretty weak damage, but if you buff it correctly you can do AoE damage that no ele can match. During the Battle for Lion's Arch, my splinter barrager was taking off almost half of the health of the groups of Jade Cloaks with one Barrage. Show me an ele that could do that, and I'll agree that rangers need better AoE options. Until then: you need to learn to play the class better.
R_Frost: clever, I like it.
Steps_Descending
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Originally Posted by R_Frost
change i would like to see, All your preparations are removed after next attack. if a preparation was removed recharge increased to 10 seconds. Shoot arrows at target foe and up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +5...17...20 damage if they hit.
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Point 1 : is the superior AoE that valuable? I don't think so. 10 sec feels long for a combat cooldown, especially considering most prep are 12 sec + 2sec casting time.
POint 2 : Preparations are unremovable, completely unremovable.
I think that would give a not-worth-enough option to a skill while people (that means I) would probably prefer to use more barage. I think. It might be just about tweaking the increased recharge to make it flow more in combat.
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
... the ranger can buff their AoE attacks with a ton of armor-ignoring buffs. Eles can't. ...
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Splinter Weapon works as well on a sword or wand as on a bow with Barrage, the damage coming from it is not an accomplishment of the AoE capabilities of Ranger skills.
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Originally Posted by R_Frost
... the powercreep updates with AoE changes now has everyone wanting more.
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R_Frost
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Originally Posted by Steps_Descending
I like the idea, but I have doubt concerning the effectiveness of the change. 1 shot with preraration would basically mean I big AoE before recharging. Or spamming without prep.
Point 1 : is the superior AoE that valuable? I don't think so. 10 sec feels long for a combat cooldown, especially considering most prep are 12 sec + 2sec casting time. POint 2 : Preparations are unremovable, completely unremovable. I think that would give a not-worth-enough option to a skill while people (that means I) would probably prefer to use more barage. I think. It might be just about tweaking the increased recharge to make it flow more in combat. |
Lanier
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
The problem is that for efficiency in PvE the only thing that matters is damage.
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X Dr Pepper X
I'm all for it, but it should be modest. Rangers have no real bow AoE outside of IA, Barrage, Volley, and Ignite arrows.
IA was OP in pvp and they increased recharge and decreased burning, which nullified its use in PvE. Make a PvE version of original IA.
A skill that allows you to hit 2 different targets for +10 damage each with one arrow each isn't op. Make it adjacent. 10 sec recharge. 10 energy.
A skill that fires 3 arrows in a cone in front of you and can only hit 1 target each. No additional damage.
An arrow where it passes through all enemies in a straight line. +15 dmg to all foes hit.
Make volley not remove preparations, reduce additional damage or remove additional damage entirely, limit to 3 arrows to adjacent foes.
There don't need to be intricate, elite versions of AoE dmg skills with bows. Just the option for 5 or so decent non elite bow skills and 2-4 real nice elites like IA, Barrage.
IA was OP in pvp and they increased recharge and decreased burning, which nullified its use in PvE. Make a PvE version of original IA.
A skill that allows you to hit 2 different targets for +10 damage each with one arrow each isn't op. Make it adjacent. 10 sec recharge. 10 energy.
A skill that fires 3 arrows in a cone in front of you and can only hit 1 target each. No additional damage.
An arrow where it passes through all enemies in a straight line. +15 dmg to all foes hit.
Make volley not remove preparations, reduce additional damage or remove additional damage entirely, limit to 3 arrows to adjacent foes.
There don't need to be intricate, elite versions of AoE dmg skills with bows. Just the option for 5 or so decent non elite bow skills and 2-4 real nice elites like IA, Barrage.
Ugh
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Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X
A skill that allows you to hit 2 different targets for +10 damage each with one arrow each isn't op. Make it adjacent. 10 sec recharge. 10 energy.
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| A skill that fires 3 arrows in a cone in front of you and can only hit 1 target each. No additional damage. |
The Drunkard
If you want rangers to start being used in elite areas, trying to turn up AoE damage will not work. Unless Anet buffs rangers to a point where they do more damage than MoP/HB, rangers will never get into groups that need damage.
I think the best thing Anet can do for rangers now is to make natural rituals useful. Having the spirits affect both friend and foe really gimps the team as to what skills to bring, and usually harms the team instead. Rituals need to either buff the party by synergizing with certain types of damage, or cripple the foe. Traps should also have a much wider AoE so rangers can actually put them on their bar.
I think the best thing Anet can do for rangers now is to make natural rituals useful. Having the spirits affect both friend and foe really gimps the team as to what skills to bring, and usually harms the team instead. Rituals need to either buff the party by synergizing with certain types of damage, or cripple the foe. Traps should also have a much wider AoE so rangers can actually put them on their bar.
X Dr Pepper X
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Originally Posted by Ugh
Oh right, Splinter Shot should turn into Splinter Shot. I assume that's what you were referring to?
I don't think this would work with GW1's physics. |
I wanna see mediocre normal bow attack skills be put into strategies involving the actual use of wilderness survival in pve. Crazy. I know.
Making preparations useful in pve like Ignite Arrows, Melandru's Arrows, and Glass Arrows. Spread degen in AoE and do small damage.
And making the damage benefits from bow attacks adjacent to eachother instead of nearby ensures it is less effective in PvP than PvE.
Jk Arrow
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
The problem is that for efficiency in PvE the only thing that matters is damage. |
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Originally Posted by Nubarus
Also the Great Dwarf Weapon + Barrage is actually pretty funny to watch. |
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by The Drunkard
I think the best thing Anet can do for rangers now is to make natural rituals useful. Having the spirits affect both friend and foe really gimps the team as to what skills to bring, and usually harms the team instead. Rituals need to either buff the party by synergizing with certain types of damage, or cripple the foe. Traps should also have a much wider AoE so rangers can actually put them on their bar.
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Bow AoE should come from preparations and most preparations dont deal AoE.
reaper with no name
The purpose of Barrage is not that it's super duper AoE, but that it's a decent ranged physical AoE. I can't really think of much else that does what Barrage does, and for that reason it doesn't really need to be changed (unless you wanted to stop Rits from abusing it for their splinter barrage or something).
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by Lanier
Powercreep created this problem and randomly buffing skills that are not underpowered is only going to make the problem you mention worse.
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Barrage is weak, extending it's area of effect from adjacent to nearby would not introduce powercreep, but might make bringing the skill worthwhile.
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
The purpose of Barrage is not that it's super duper AoE, but that it's a decent ranged physical AoE.
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X Dr Pepper X
Quit whining about how you think Barrage sucks. Its an insanely good skill.
The only quips I have about Barrage are that in HM monsters have too much armor- especially Warriors, and that splinter Barrage is conditional on adjacent foes. The adjacent foes is a balancing point for barrage, and I recognize and respect that.
No whining about a skill that costs 5 energy, can be spammed for 1s recharge, deals unconditional +20 damage to up to 7 adjacent foes. And that's without mentioning other stuff like Splinter Weapon, GDW, Conjure Fire/Lightning/Earth/Frost.
You get plenty of good AoE with barrage and nice options for party support as well. You roll interrupts with it, bring I Am the Strongest, Save Yourselves, Summon Spirit Vampirism and Favorable winds, EBSoH. Bring a pet.
TL;DR. Barrage is good. Options out of Barrage are poor.
The only quips I have about Barrage are that in HM monsters have too much armor- especially Warriors, and that splinter Barrage is conditional on adjacent foes. The adjacent foes is a balancing point for barrage, and I recognize and respect that.
No whining about a skill that costs 5 energy, can be spammed for 1s recharge, deals unconditional +20 damage to up to 7 adjacent foes. And that's without mentioning other stuff like Splinter Weapon, GDW, Conjure Fire/Lightning/Earth/Frost.
You get plenty of good AoE with barrage and nice options for party support as well. You roll interrupts with it, bring I Am the Strongest, Save Yourselves, Summon Spirit Vampirism and Favorable winds, EBSoH. Bring a pet.
TL;DR. Barrage is good. Options out of Barrage are poor.
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X
Quit whining about how you think Barrage sucks. Its an insanely good skill.
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That doesn't happen though, which is why it doesn't see much use on my bar. Splinter weapon is overrated for the same reason.
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| No whining about a skill that costs 5 energy, can be spammed for 1s recharge, deals unconditional +20 damage to up to 7 adjacent foes. |
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And that's without mentioning other stuff like Splinter Weapon, GDW, Conjure Fire/Lightning/Earth/Frost. ... You roll interrupts with it, bring I Am the Strongest, Save Yourselves, Summon Spirit Vampirism and Favorable winds, EBSoH. Bring a pet. |
There are at least three different secondaries in all those support skills, not to mention that those skills work just as well without Barrage.
(PS: Summon Spirit and Vampirism is a rediculous waste of skill slots. Even a pet >> those).
Interrupts don't mix with Barrage, you can use either, but not both.
Anyway, you're just confirming what I said earlier, you need to dedicate many more skill-slots to make barrage worthwhile.
reaper with no name
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
The changes in mechanics that defined Hard Mode created it, if you want to call those powercreep, that's fine. But to keep classes balanced you'll either have to undo the powercreep of some classes or buff others to match.
Barrage is weak, extending it's area of effect from adjacent to nearby would not introduce powercreep, but might make bringing the skill worthwhile. The purpose of AoE damage skills is to deal damage in an area of effect (rather then one foe) and Barrage isn't good at doing so. There's a wide range of spells that are ranged and have an adjacent or wider area of effect. Compared to them Barrage is not even decent at the moment; you need to dedicate your build, that of your team and your tactics around it to make it work decently. |
Lanier
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
But to keep classes balanced you'll either have to undo the powercreep of some classes or buff others to match.
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X Dr Pepper X
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Anyway, you're just confirming what I said earlier, you need to dedicate many more skill-slots to make barrage worthwhile.
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Your picky semantic technicalities are a subtle gesture that you can't make an effective counterargument and are averting the point. Weak trolling.
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
No, no, you're looking at it all wrong. It's not that your team has to design itself around Barrage, but rather that the skill becomes effective when used as AoE in a physical heavy party that utilizes physical buffs such as Orders. That is the purpose of the skill, and you don't need a lot of slots to do that.
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