What's the deal with spears?

What's the deal with spears? Again let us edit the title!

OK I know I'm probably missing something important here but I noticed from the Battle for Lion's Arch and other mission done with real players a lot of people have their characters using spears who aren't paragons or even half paragons? Anyone want to clue me in on why spears are good to have?

iirc it has to do with attack speed vs staff or whatever other weapon

Keeping up adrenaline at range.

Ability to use +20% enchantment mod.

Alot of casters want a one handed weapon as well as a focus (or defensive shield), rather than using a staff. Wands don't have an enchanting wrapping, or a +5energy inscription that has no requirement. Marital weapons have both. Most choose to use a spear rather than sword/axe, as its still a ranged weaopn, so when auto-attacking, they won't get forced into the frontline. Plus things like voltaic spears are expensive/look kinda nice.

This is how I see it anyway, and really why I use a caster spear alot.

Warriors use them to gain adrenaline from a distance to charge up their skills before the fight has actually started.

Caster professions use martial weapons for the unconditional energy bonus (+5) it gives them, along with the extra health (+30) or increased enchantment duration (+20%).

The energy bonus is only available conditionally on caster weapons, while the extra health and increased enchantment are only available on a staff.

Should they wish to auto-attack for any reason (for example, triggering Barbs), they can do so from a safe distance.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aggro
I have a spear for the above in quotes or for a silencing mod when running a Fevered Dreams or Extend Conditions build.

I use a +5e +20% enchant spear with silencing for when I use technobabble, can't get any of that on a wand, and can't get silencing on a staff

Enemy AI like staffs or wands over spears in PvE. A healer that isn't targeted is good. Simple.

Also, wands are pretty useless for spirit spammers (no spells) so a spear is a good alternative.

To me it also seems that, if you're wielding a spear as a caster, you have less chance to be hexed with Backfire and other anti-caster hexes.

+ all the above

Lukyboy's observation is correct, although it applies to any martial weapon and not just spears.

In short, it boils down to the following:
- spears allow adrenaline to be build up/kept up at range
- martial weapons have access to modifications that wands, focii and staves don't (or are unconditional, in the case of +5 energy)
- the weapons (or their modifications) can interact with skills (increasing the duration of conditions, triggering Barbs, etc.)
- you can "trick" the AI (making them believe you are less of a priority target, or prevent them from casting the appropriate hex on you)

Also, if you are using certain necro spells like barbs, mark of pain, or orders, it is nice to give your heroes spears.

Assuming the players are good:

They are wielding spears not mainly for the spear itself, but for the shield that holding a one-handed weapon allows them to have. Since, while you're not casting, mods that half casting time or recharge time are useless, it makes sense to idle in a defensive set to mitigate as much damage as possible and switch to appropriately modded caster sets when you want to cast a spell.

Obviously a shield is the best off-hand for a defensive set, giving +8/15/16 armor depending on your ability to spec into its attribute, +10 armor vs a specific damage type, and +30 health. Since the whole point of the set it to sit in it while not casting, wands are useless. This leaves axes, swords, and spears. Since axes and swords are melee while spears are ranged, most people choose spears for the ability to interrupt dazed targets, trigger physical damage buffs, neutralize a Reversal of Fortune, etc. without putting themselves dangerously out of position. Common mods on a (real) caster spear include: +5 or -5 energy inscriptions to increase or hide energy in the defensive set, +30 hp or +5 armor mods to further increase survivability, and any prefix mod that might have some build-specific benefit like Furious or an elemental damage modifier.


Realistically, or The Ignorant Masses:

Most players completely misinterpret the trend among more skilled players of bringing a set in which the main-hand weapon is a spear. They tend to use a butchered version of the caster spear with a +20% enchantment duration mod because they use enchantments and don't like weapon swapping. Other weapons found on these players might include: A focus for "energy management", a shield with -5/20 for "uber damage mitigation", or, somehow, another spear with +20% enchantment duration because that's just how much they misinterpret the point of a spear on a caster.

My response is somewhat like Rhamia's above.

There are a lot of PvP players who carry over the weapons and tactics from PvP into PvE. These are usually the players that promote the use of, and the switching to, various weapon sets. These players generally know what they are doing, but these PvP-based tactics are rarely, if ever, actually needed in PvE. However, they are used to playing that way, and it works for them.

Unfortunately, what you usually end up with, as Rhamia sort of says, are a bunch of less skilled, more PvE oriented players who copy these weapon sets and tactics, without fully understanding why they would use them or what mods etc., are useful. They are, quite frankly, more interested in what looks "leet".

A typical example of the odd-ball thinking of some of these people is the statement that using a spear "keeps you at a distance and out of harm's way". But, if you were to discuss Ranger's bows, these same people would tell you not to use a shortbow (same range as a spear) because it "takes you too close to the action and into harm's way".

After 5+ years of PvE play, I am sure that the actually difference between using one weapon set and another (provided they aren't totally wrong) is basically insignificant. It's more important to feel comfortable with what you are using and to know how the weapon set synergizes with your build.

I've completed BLA with all 11 of my active characters and at least 4 of those were just me, a buddy, and 4 heroes - the rest were PUGs. In no cases was I using anything you would call a "leet" weapon set (or even a weapon not meant for the character).
The closest would be that my Imbagon uses a focus (for the energy - but not management ) rather than a shield. (A Celestial Compass and a Furious Voltaic Spear - I'm not totally against looking leet-ish )

So, to answer the OP's question - the reasons why spears would be good to have (in PvE) are very minor - it's more about looks than anything else.

What build is best defense agasint an attack by one of these ?

Rofl - maybe a question your wife should have asked, Ghengis

To OP, do you mean the e-peen (lollable) v-spear and tormy shield combo (rolls eyes). I'm guessing the people that use that combo also voted 10 stars for the Dark Knight on imdb

^ that's why we use spears. Because frankly the mods are just that much better.


^ Not so much. As soon as the AI sees you casting spells you're going to get backfired etc if there's more than one mob with it. Happens on an assassin with anything melee, dervish, and even a warrior if he's got a spell or two. And if all your casters are holding spears... Well that spell's going to get cast somewhere. Might go onto the one guy with the wand first, maybe, but most often a moment later the AI watches everyone fire off spells and your weapon selection becomes irrelevant. I hear that reasoning all the time for why people use spears, but if you're really watching what the AI is doing and who's getting hexed/targeted with what you will find that it is not nearly as effective as assumed.
There may be something to say for energy hiding against excessive energy denial, but that's better accomplished in PvE with a high energy set swap - which specifically includes a wand that you will be holding through all of the actual fighting unless you're a healer.

So really, do it if the mods suit you better. Or even the skins just suit you better - because that is a very valid reason, just ask anybody who forked out ectos for a froggy. Not for trying to abuse the AI in ways that don't work nearly as well as keeps getting repeated.

Hm, +5e plus 20% longer enchants plus 33% longer dazed (plus shield mods).

Is that really better than the 10e, plus +5e, plus +5e^50 (20e total), plus 20% enchants, plus HSR 20%, that you could get with a staff? In all cases?

Or 10e, plus +5e^50, plus +30 health, plus 20% enchants?

Is the loss of the extra energy and/or HCT and/or other mods really worth the longer dazed? How about when the party already has a BHA interrupt Ranger?

Bottom line - it's always a trade-off. There are no mods that are "just that much better".

That's why you have four weapon sets, so you can switch between your martial set, high energy, and casting. Energy and casting bonuses are useless when you are not casting a spell, so you can equip more health and armor instead. You do not have to settle for just one weapon.

I have yet to run into anything in PvE that required weapon set switching. It goes back to what I said earlier about PvP tactics in PvE.
Of course, on the other hand, I like to just get high and have fun - micro-managing the Heroes is bad enough without maniacally swapping weapons so that I can kill something a few seconds sooner.

Personally, I've always hated 20/20 sets for how they stack (or more don't). I get the best of both worlds for my monk with a +5e +20%ench spear and an offhand (only 3 less energy than a 20energy staff), and then have a shield swap with both pieces giving +30hp and +45hp ench. I run a similar setup with my necro (when MM'ing). Note both of those classes tend to make very heavy use of enchantments.

On my mesmer and rit a staff is miles better (imo) since you're not using the primary benefit of a spear: enchantments that need lengthened. On a rit with many builds (excluding SoS) you're not even going to have your weapons because of an item spell. Both of these classes tend to wand a lot between casting (or summoning spirits), so you do actually want a weapon you meet the req for damage. The exception may be unless you're bringing a necro with barbs/MoP. There is always an exception... which is why you've got 4 weapon set spaces.

A use I don't think I saw mentioned... Running inbetween mobs. Sticking a defensive shield set on in the many missions etc where you just run by a set (or several) of mobs instead of killing them to save time is obviously almost always beneficial. Which is the general reason you'll see a shield (and the more or less default spear thanks to pvp) on assassins everywhere. That and when they need to back off and heal.

I'd also point out that, aside from min/max'ing, if you want to use a +20% ench for a lot of people the cost of a base weapon and the mods may actually be a factor for more casual or new players. Sitting around Spamadan you can always find a +20% sword hilt or axe grip cheaper (and imo faster) than a +20% spear mod, which in turn people tend to be willing to fork out even more for the +20% staff wrapping. Green staves with +20 energy and +20% ench are uncommon and (comparatively) expensive; most only have +15 energy, +20% ench, and something much less useful. All of this assuming you have no luck and don't find any of it in a great give away or 1k greens storage clear. Getting an offhand or shield from there is very easy, since they tend to be the primary suspects of such give aways and clears right after odd wands.

Spear and focus versus equivalent staff:

First gets you +17e, 20% HCT, 20% HSR, 20% enchants, and a possible prefix mod on the spear if it suits.

Second gets you +15e, 20% HCT, 20% HSR, 20% enchants.

If you want energy and enchants, the spear and focus is better by 2 energy and the prefix mod. This is why there was all the hubbub about the HoD swords giving players an advantage of 2 energy, all those years ago now.

Now, if you want an Adept head instead of +5e, you could do that with the staff while keeping the +20% enchants, but that's a choice the player has to make.

The point is, in contrast to what Rhamia said, there actually IS a reason to sit in a spear + focus set while casting. It just so happens that defensive sets are so rarely useful in PvE that it's just not worth the 7 or so extra inventory slots it would take to carry a shield for each damage type. I want to pick up drops, ya know.

@Lillium: I don't know what you're talking about, 20/20 sets stack fine.

It does stack yes... But you're throwing all of your bonuses into something that's relatively meh unless your entire build(s) is based around long casting long recharging spells. 20% on each is sufficient, the point seems more that 4% chance of quartered CT/SR. And I hate small % chances to be the target of your main gear.
Let's hope none of your spells are expensive since you've probably only got an energy pool of 42 (unless you're an ele) if you stuck all armor/hp bonuses on your armor as is so reccomended. You're gimping yourself out to not have more energy, hit points, or armor from your weapon set so you can cast a bit sooner? And on a % chance that may not even trigger at all sometimes. I totally understand why a fire or earth elementalists might do this, since they have very long recharge times and an extra source of an energy pool to work with. But I still don't like it, nor do I think its beneficial enough to most other classes/builds.

plus lets not forget the AI is pretty dumb, running a spear and focus or shield the AI tends to not cast the anti caster spells on you. where if you were running a staff or wand and focus you have to account for that in battle. i do have a high energy set on my monk only, but rarely use it like i use to when i grouped up in a PUG. i seem to not have energy issues when i H/H or play with guild/alliance mates.

In pve it doesnt matter what ur using unless ur doing a farm that requires an enchanting mod, or -2 damage from ur shield. Hence I use it coz i prefer the look of a shield and spear (or sword, or axe) to a wand/focii or staff. Saying that, I can also run with a staff or watever in pve coz it really doesnt matter.

In Pvp, i tend to swap in and out more depending on what im doing, but in reality when it comes down to it, its not really worth it most of the time. Unless im running a mesmer when a HCT or HSR on Diversion can determine whether it gets through, or the big skills get through. High End it would make a diff where ur facing decent interupters, and spikes, but in low end it really doesnt make a difference, coz they are unlikely to be able to hit anything under 1 second cast regardless as to whether u HCT it or not.