Languages in districts: cause for discrimination? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

28 Jul 2010 at 08:37 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dame Laureline

Oh, boy! You think you could dare to speak English in French channels for your own convenience? Really?
You could barely ask for something in English there if you first apologize because you don't know French. It'd be probably easier with other languages, but anyway you'll have some usual grunt from many French players and very few will answer you.

It was a hypothetical situation reflecting the current situation of languages without their own district. It wasn't intended as a serious situation (I seriously don't understand why the French react the way they do to English, it seems to reflect the whole point of this thread). About the grunt and few answers from French people: the whole point of speaking English would be to speak to other English people, not to ask something of the French or to get answers from them (which is the current situation with non-English languages in Europe-English: they don't talk to English people and are not expecting answers from English people).

It seems you are missing the point of my example. Since from your post I'm guessing you are French I'll substitute a few language in my example:

Imagine the following situation:
- You speak French fluently because it is your first language.
- You speak half a word of Japanese because it was taught to you in school, but not nearly as fluently as French and typing in French is much faster and more convenient.
- There is no French district and most French speaking people reside in the Japanese district.
- You speak to other French people in the district.
What language do you speak?

I hope you understand the meaning of my example better with the substituted languages.

Quote:

My default district was European/French. I'm currently in American/English. So I was able to change. And while playing GW I only speak English (but some private whispers with other Frenchies or Frenchspeaking Belgians).
About trade it's a lame excuse. GW is about exploring and slaying villains(PvE), or defeating opponent teams (PvP), not trading. Trade is a side effect of the game.

It seems you are unaware that there are language groups that do not have their own district and are put in Europe-English by default.

Trade is a lame excuse and a side effect of the game? I think many would disagree. Anyway, most 'exploring and slaying' is done in instances, while trading is mainly done in outposts.

I think outposts are there for three things:
- making pugs
- talking to people (may it be in a conversation of recruiting etc.)
- trading

Dame Laureline

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2010

Childs of Amber

P/

28 Jul 2010 at 09:51 - 82

Quote:

Imagine the following situation:
- You speak French fluently because it is your first language.
- You speak half a word of Japanese because it was taught to you in school, but not nearly as fluently as French and typing in French is much faster and more convenient.
- There is no French district and most French speaking people reside in the Japanese district.
- You speak to other French people in the district.
What language do you speak?

Japanese definitively. I'm glad I have the opportunity to speak Japanese and improve it.

Darth The Xx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Sen'jin Village

The Infamous Cake Bandits [cake]

Mo/W

28 Jul 2010 at 10:10 - 83

Holy crap this has been blown way out of proportion.

People in the world speak different languages, get over it.

News flash, if you can't understand it it probably has absolutely nothing to do with you (talking about all chat here) if it really bothers you that much just turn off chat.

What's that? you're gonna argue from a principle standpoint, you shouldn't have to turn off chat in YOUR language because people arn't speaking it, well I got news for you buddy, ill guarantee you that chat gets turned off WAY more for spamming and shit said in english than it does cus people get pissed off because they can't understand another language.

Be more open minded, its just a game, people are just talking, and its the internet, curtesy, morals and principles have no place here.

RedStar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

_____________________ (\__/) (\__/) (\__/)Help (='.'=)(='.'=)(='.'=)Bunny (")_(")(")_(")(")_(")

[Bomb]

E/

28 Jul 2010 at 11:30 - 84

Let me get the problem : people that speak language A don't like it when others speak language B in "their" districts.

....

Are people really that bored that they have to create a little drama on something so insignificant ?
I don't even know an outpost where 2 or more random people have a long chat on a random thing (that isn't about porn or a completely dumb thing). And GToB or outposts like that aren't a reference.
While waiting for a FA match 2 or more conversation can occur, sometimes in different languages and most of the time no one cares.

This is a game, not a place to go and chat in Kamadan.

And most people go into the american or english districts because there are more people there.

Swahnee

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Italy

Mo/

28 Jul 2010 at 11:34 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

Be more open minded [...] curtesy, morals and principles have no place here.

I always thought that being open minded was a matter of moral and principle.

However, it seems to me that people here are going on addressing each other because they continue to refuse to face the real problem, which is the definition of the meaning of the all chat.

People saying that others shouldn't speak in a language different from the district's one are right because they assume that the all chat is meant to be a place where to say things which are interesting for everybody else.

People saying that others shoud speak the language they want are right because they assume that the all chat is meant to be a place where to say mostly useless things.

And guess what? People use the all chat for both purposes. Sometimes people want to say things interesting for everyone (guild advertisement, asking for information, answering questions, etc..), and in that case they need a "silent" place to be heard, and sometimes people want to joke and waste time, so they don't give a damn about what's going on in the chat.

Unless ANet introduce a new chat for "important communications to all the people in the district", which i highly doubt, this war between people-who-want-the-language-of-the-district-to-be-respected and people-who-want-everyone-to-talk-the-way-he-wants will never end, because both will be right in the same time, upon their own definition of the meaning of the all chat, and ANet never stated (if i'm not mistaken) that the all chat can't be used to say silly things, nor that it can't be used to say important things.

As always, defining the words used in a conversation helps a lot when it comes to communicate with other people.

Tullzinski

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Trying to stay out of Ryuk's Death Note

N/R

28 Jul 2010 at 12:25 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

Are people really that bored that they have to create a little drama on something so insignificant ?

Yes! Scary isn't it!

This is why I love the international dists, nobody there, nice an quiet, blissfully ignorant of silly issues like this. There is no begging, scamming, argueing, whining, pc police, 2012 freaks, guild recruiters and so on. If only there was a fishing hole.

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

28 Jul 2010 at 15:34 - 87

Why worry about what is said in general chat, that is just background noise to me just as you would get walking through a busy rail terminal or a market.

In those situations do you go around yelling speak English this is an English speaking country ? well maybe you do but its not a reasonable thing to do.

Point is its unimportant and harms no one, anything important is done on one of the other channels.

If you don't like it turn it off

Markus Clouser

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

Elite Mercenaries of Abaddon [ema] and Dhuum [emd]

W/

28 Jul 2010 at 15:40 - 88

English in Eu En or American districts
French in Eu Fr
Italian in Eu Italian
German in Eu German
etc

If you're not on the list go to International.
Makes sense to me.

jray14

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

NC, USA

Ohm Mahnee Pedmay [Hoom]

28 Jul 2010 at 16:05 - 89

Looks like not quite enough opinions in here, so I'll throw in one more. If you see a non-default language in a district, then either (1) you understand it, in which case no practical difference from default for you, or (2) you don't understand it, in which case you may as well assume that meaningful discussion is going on, because that will have the best affect on your mood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

I think outposts are there for three things:
- making pugs
- talking to people (may it be in a conversation of recruiting etc.)
- trading

4. RvR battles (religion vs. religion)

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

31 Jul 2010 at 11:38 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

Also, I have a question, and I'd like people to answer honestly. Why do you care so much about this?

Because rules are rules and must be followed.
Even if they are indirectly created by how the game is coded, they are still rules.
If a Japanese can only use Japanese in Japanese and international, and Russian can use Cyrillic in Russian and International only, then why should anyone else use their languages in places they are not supposed to?
Are Japanese and Russian second-grade players?

No. So if they can't you can't. That's fairness. And anyone against fairness is evil, and anyone evil is to be destroyed.

Simple logic.

-Makai-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

WA

DH

Rt/

31 Jul 2010 at 16:35 - 91

At the end of the day, it all boils down to courtesy and aptitude. I used to play JQ exclusively at 7-9 a.m. EST in order to group with German-speaking players, who proved to be extremely skilled. Although I couldn't understand their text, the only word that mattered was victory. This is one reason why GW has such a great design; it transcends language barriers via visual and aural signals. Language discrimination is absolutely pointless, especially when current trends value typing in stupid babble-speak instead of a real language.

Also, there should be some kind of troll filter that leads to a hex. Kick 'em all and let Shing Jea sort 'em out.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

31 Jul 2010 at 22:06 - 92

you will totally get that in a game who's player base is certain that mexican and american are languages. i wouldn't sweat it.

(Datura)

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2008

South East

Kiss

E/

04 Aug 2010 at 05:26 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I'm Belgian myself, and I think we should plea for a dutch district! :P

I find myself to be more of a language-nazi when it comes down to languages in districts. However, I don't ever insult people, but rather tell them to go talk Russian/Polish/German/French in their own district.

Even people speaking languages which don't have their own districts often get critized by me. Heck, I even told a dutch person to speak english in all chat, rather than dutch.

The irritation I have comes from real life I think. Since you live in Belgium aswell, you should know about the "verfransing" and the immigration of muslims (Turks, Marrokans, etc.). The core of these issues, aswell as the language barrier in GW, is the same: It's about hospitality towards other people.

Accepting other people to have their own customs and own languages is something I find natural. This is why we allow French speaking (Wallons?) people to speak French, obviously, and vice versa. It's why we allow French speaking Guild Wars players to speak French in their own assigned districts. (French is just the example, you can replace it with every language) And there is enough empty districts for the many languages which don't have their own districts.

However, when you are in a public place which in this case can be concidered English and International District, it's just as natural that you assume non-native speakers do atleast attempt to speak English (International language) solely so that English speaking people (Aka the natives) don't get the feeling they're the odd one out in their own district.

Courtesy has to go both ways. And this is the issue at heart here. In both the real life-Belgian issues where Frenchies refuse to speak Dutch even if they are in the Flemish part, and where eastern-immigrants (mainly muslims) refuse to do any form of integration, or sometimes even expect the hosting country to make more efforts to let them live their own lifestyle.

If you're in whatever district, you should speak that district's language. Why? Out of courtesy for the hundreds of other people who will otherwise feel allienated from their own district if they see strange languages getting spammed in all-chat.

Chauvenism ftw!

I completely agree

Tearz1993

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

Relentless Aggressors [rA]

R/Mo

04 Aug 2010 at 08:37 - 94

international district?

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

04 Aug 2010 at 08:46 - 95

I never experience this issue.

Nalia

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

USA

Psychic Distraction [PD]

04 Aug 2010 at 10:24 - 96

I would like to see the removal of language suggestions from districts and just have District 1,2,3,etc. instead of English District 1, Korean District 1, etc. i only ever see americans in the korean and trad chinese districts and people speak whatever language they wish in english districts. just remove the language portion, problem solved. there is no need for anet to create a further seperation of players by trying to force them to use specific languages in a district otherwise face ostracision.

Nechrond

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2009

Netherlands

Utrecht Usurpators

D/

04 Aug 2010 at 13:38 - 97

If I join a PuG in an English district, I'll speak English. If I do a trade or party search in an English district, I'll do it in English. But I don't see why it would bother anyone that I speak Dutch to other Dutch people. If I want to communicate with YOU, I'll probably do so using better English then your own, and if you don't believe me, than you should first ask yourself whether or not you even noticed that I switched "then" and "than" around. If you didn't, STFUpl0xKTHX.

Dame Laureline

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2010

Childs of Amber

P/

04 Aug 2010 at 13:58 - 98

Quote:

But I don't see why it would bother anyone that I speak Dutch to other Dutch people

I think that's the main problem. You're not expected to speak to part of the people but all the people if you use the chat. The mere fact everybody (in the outpost) will read you means you're speaking/writing/typing to all. If you need to speak to Dutch, create a Dutch alliance and speak Dutch in alliance channel.

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

04 Aug 2010 at 15:24 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

I never experience this issue.

I really need to do that more. I'm getting sucked into by way too many trolls lately.

Ganks

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

[soLo]

Me/

09 Aug 2010 at 02:30 - 100

People hate us english speaking people. They do it to make us angry.
Best to just get used to it honestly. They probably aren't going to stop trolling us for the same reason they won't stop pretending to be American on the internet.

DRGN

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

In Memorium [iBot]

Mo/A

09 Aug 2010 at 03:56 - 101

I wish people who use the phrase "open minded" would put it at the START of their post so I know to skip the close-mindedness in the rest of it.

The last time this was really an issue for me was when three Dutch people in the same guild and party spammed the hell out of American English 1. When asked to stop, they essentially said "go RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO yourselves" and said that WE needed to petition Anet on their behalf for their own district...that seems a bit backwards if you ask me. We have to accommodate them because they can't be assed to talk in either guild or party chat? I don't mind people speaking other languages, but not when they're giant douchebags about it...

There should be courtesy to people who speak other languages, but they shouldn't get to run roughshod over everyone and be able to do whatever they want. A lot of people seem to forget that, as was said in one of the first posts in the thread, it's a two-way street.

StormX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

E/Mo

09 Aug 2010 at 05:54 - 102

I only have problems with language when:

1. My teammates are bad/we are losing a battle and they don't understand or respond to english. I'm sorry I have this problem a lot when grouped with international players in random team formats. English is not my native language either but it's widely accepted as a means of international communication so...

fortunately i've learned to say "ein bist du noob" and a variety of foreign curse words

2. My teammates constantly go on and on in german/french/polish/russian or whatever language I don't understand. I have nothing against people speaking in their own languages but it's not very helpful from a team-play perspective.

whatever people say in allchat is none of my business, unless they say particularly stupid/offensive things upon which i either turn it off or report them

The Riven

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

None worth mentioning

P/

09 Aug 2010 at 06:34 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormX

whatever people say in allchat is none of my business, unless they say particularly stupid/offensive things upon which i either turn it off or report them

Lets face facts here, All Chat has never been the last bastion of rationalia.