Are Community Relations Dead in GW1?

1. HA new map status? Not ready yet
2. Timeline for GWB content (general ideas or something is coming) Not ready yet
3. Messages on what the live team are working on currently X, Y and Z. We were told previously
4. Updates on updates........ on schedule, delayed and the like. Not ready yet
5. Interview with Anet staff (like Regina did with the fashion developer for GW2) but with the live team... Would rather they kept working.

Basically, we are not getting announcements or news because there is nothing new to say. If they posted just to say "nothing's ready yet", or "we're on vacation" or "we don't know what the schedule is right now", everyone would be screaming about the posts with no definite info. The CR dept is always in a "can't win" situation as far as the fans are concerned.

I agree there are definitely things that ArenaNet could be doing to keep this community better informed and happier (talking in generalities here), but that is almost always the case, you can always do more. Where you draw the line relies on your resources and priorities.

The thrust of my argument (which probably got buried amidst the wall of text) was basically that majority of ArenaNet's community team manpower is now required to deal with the ramp up and release of Guild Wars 2. For them to be able to give any significant attention to the Guild Wars audience it would require a further expansion of their team, at more cost and more time to the studio. It is quite possible that the higher-ups simply don't think that is worth it.

Basically: The reduced engagement with this community is almost certainly not the choice of Regina, Martin, Stephane or Emily.

I get what you mean. I miss HB..a lot. I never thought I'd miss it, but I do. ArenaNet didn't delete TA/HB to save server space, they were just dead (yes, they were, even though CA is even more dead).They thought CA would peak the interest, and it didn't. They probably don't want to admit their mistakes, so they'll let CA rot.

That doesn't matter anyway, I want them to work on HA/GvG rather then CA. Because HA and GvG, even with this poor meta, are still fun. Guild War's PvP is still, imo, the best out there.

And, GW2 will probably be released in mid 2011.

Okay I see where your coming from, or they could say the following:

1. HA Map - we (live krew) have been working on this and we have had to make changes to this to balance this map, more so then we intended. We expect there to be further testing so it could be 3 months before you get an update on this. Yes we know it could be nearly a year, but in the competive PvP arena we need to make sure maps are balanced. OR sorry we scraped the idea.
2. With the new guy taking over Lindsay we are going to let him settle in and as he has alluded to he has got ideas of his own that he will want to ensure. If all goes well (that is never) then you could be looking at the new year for the next exciting series of GWB. OR Sorry we cant ruin the surprises as yet...
3. We were told but it was a while ago. Update: So it has been two months or more since we were talking about X update (so long I forgot), we are still working through a hoste of changes and should have something more, we expect to have this update available in October (get your Derv/Paragns ready for that!).
4. Working on what? CR? Yes please.......

It really does not take long to update folks, they appreciate it and yes not everyone likes that but at least it informs the community rather then lead them to rumor mongering and crying out they dont care, I need hugs etc.


Silver

JR, you have more information than many of us and what you have said here I have assumed for a while to be the case. Amazing that marketing departments/heads have such a narrow view on social MMOs/gamers in this competitive arena, customer loyalty, retention and viral marketing (negative or positive).

Silver

@1st point... makes me think about what exactly what the tk is doing and how effectively anet is puttin em to use? why can't there be some kind of test krewe blog? i know some people are like shhhhh gotta keep everything secret...but really? why? remember when anet said they were going to be more open with the skills balance process revealing previews way ahead of time so they can get community feedback. yea, we're not getting that--heck, we're not getting skill balances period. are the test krewe even doing anything productive right now?

cr is dead because nothin is happenin in gw; nothin is happenin in gw because gw is dead.

ive wondered the same thing about the TK over the last few months. things like how many total people are on it, how many hours a week do they still play GW and of that time how much is testing possible changes compared to just playing the game. i never applied when Anet did the TK because of the PvP requirement, my PvP consisted at the time of just alliance battles and ft aspenwood. when the release went out it was released as a PvP testing with future possibilites of doing PvE, seems based on the changes in the game its been more PvE with very little PvP. how many on the TK can say they have one of each profession and have taken each them through tyria,cantha and elona? how can you truely test balance changes if you never played or barely played a profession?

This forum is full of people who whine about literally every update made to the game. PvP update? Either it wasn't enough, or it missed the "real issue", or they're ignoring PvE. PvE update? It was lame, boring, too easy, too hard, or PvP is dead why doesn't it get any attention?

What is a CR rep supposed to say around here? They can't tell us when the next GW:Beyond stuff is going to come out since that would put them on a definite schedule, same for the upcoming Dervish and Paragon changes; they've basically told us everything they can, or are willing to, on the subject. Again, what else is there to talk about? GW2Guru, on the other hand, actually has people excited about the game. It has frickin' news. Why shouldn't that be the primary focus of the CR team?

Because it's a new game and the community is being tended to. There are tons of older games with amazing communities, because the communities were tended to.

The community of a game is what you make it. We have been starved and otherwise untended for a long time, and what happens when you leave things untended? They go wild. GW2 will have a great community for as long as they tend to it. So did GW1 at one time, but over time when you get less and less (updates, content, information, etc.), the community begins to resent the small amounts of information and content that we get, because we remember the way we used to be treated.

To be fair, our reaction to the lack of Community Relations only proves how good the game is/was. Many of us loved the game or still do, in my case. But, having the rug pulled out from under you is hard. Or, a more apt metaphor may be having to watch our favorite rug wither while we're repeatedly told that a new one is on the way is hard.

I would be more impressed if they actually showed up and related information back to the dev's and were emphatic in doing so. The amount of times they did not listen to the community is more damaging than the lack of information provided to the community.
I remember a time when the forums were lit up with requests to remove heroes from HA. Weeks passed and complaints/requests piled up. Then one night, the community actually staged a sit in in HA ID1 and literally shut down HA for 2 hours. A considerable amount of time passes. Heroes instead of being removed are restricted to 2 per party.
I remember the preview weekend when they rolled out fetid river and cap points in HA. The forums went nuts, there was a very strong consensus that these changes would greatly hurt the game and that Anet should not implement these changes. Did they listen to the community? Nope, those maps are still there today.
The amount of times that the community has been ignored has kept a good game from becoming great.

Sometimes the community doesn't know what's best for the game. Not saying the heroes were not a big deal, because they were and it did get fixed.

The community pretty much did know. How many good players would still be in HA if they had listened to the community? Revisited HA a few times recently, and it's a sinkhole. From what I could see the best monks still playing HA seem to be the henchies.

Probably not many, Dhuum's a busy guy.

Those 2 maps didn't ruin HA. Ranks and discrimination ruined it. The community ruined it.

Yes because high rank players quit HA because they were being discriminated against.
The vast majority of the quality HA players quit in several different rage cycles, because they grew frustrated with not being listened to.

Tbh, I don't really care about the high rankers. Because frankly, it gets boring playing with the same exact people. If there wasn't rank discrimination there would be a breath of new air in HA, but only we the community can fix it. Unless Anet got rid of rank, which I have a better chance of winning the lottery before that happens.

[X] (bzzt!)* Many (not all) higher ranked HA players were the ones doing the discriminating. That choked off the influx of new HA players because they didn't (and still don't) think putting up with the elitism was(is) worth it.

Long time players leave with no new guys to replace them = Dead game.


*think "Family Feud"

I agree that is what you just did.

I got the point. You blame A-Net for killing off HA and won't accept the FACT that the elitism that runs rampant in HA (or did, at the height of HA) was(is) what turned a LOT of people away from there. I know this because I've experienced it first hand on a few occasions and have talked to alot of PvEer's who tried it and opted to skip the whole HA thing because they faced the same crap.

I can't comment on how they respond to the concerns of the PvP community, because I'm not involved in the PvP community and don't follow it.

This is so true. I have tried to enter into the HA scene numerous times within the past three years and in every case, i have experienced the frustrations of elitism.

This is going way off topic. Why is it if you so much as mention ha, out comes the rank discrimination qq.

It seems like no one on these forums has done any customer service jobs, they seem to think its okay to yell at customers when the customer, in this case the players(usually a select number of people that ALWAYS whine), demand something be changed and/or removed from the game because they don't like it. Anyone imo who got a job as a COMMUNITY relations person should NEVER talk down or whine to the player base even if every single person is talking bad about them.

All in all anyone that becomes a community relations person should just take anything said by a whining customer with a grain of salt so that you can actually listen to the customers with good ideas. But thats just my opinion and the people that work at Anet probably won't like it.

i once looked forward to gw2 and being the common douche bag that i am, totally being generic and like everyone else, am not going to buy guild wars 2 because of guild wars 1 customer service. no but really i'm not. i need to trust a company and know that it's reliable before buying let's say, it's expansion to one of it's games. take diablo for example...was epic, bought the expansion. it recieved 10 years of FREE updates, now for d3..... then sc2.... then WoW, blizzard is obviously a well organized company. can't say even nearly the same for anet, they (LOL) completely failed with gw1 banning random people for no reason, terrible anti hack programs, terrible terrible terrible i dunno what else to say other than the pure retardedness of this sites staff being retarded something about red engines not sure, completely throws me off guard i mean seriously wtf lol am i the only one that feels like i'm trying to convince a 12 year old child to sell me his 20 dollar ice cream bar for 50 cents...

i hope some are able to detect my sarcasm..

Hi everyone,

I want to say that, even if we're pretty silent for a variety of reasons, we're still reading the GW fansites and collecting feedback. We and the Live Team are keeping an eye on what fans talk about, think about the updates and wish for future updates. And the team is actually busy working on these updates.

Oh and JR's post makes a lot of sense

But, there is some, and I think that is very important. A lot of time and effort was put in the WiK viral campaign, a lot of time is now spent detailing exactly why they changed specific skills, and so on. On top of that they have continual GW2 updates, the novels, and worst time consumer of all, the cons. Regina, on Twitter said she had to work overtime to deal with expense reports for Kormir's sake!

Plus, the community has shifted. I am commenting on page 6 or 7 because most of my limited time to peruse fan forums is now at GWG2. Even the CMs sadly noted "the shift" during the comparative of the WiK viral campaign.

Not that this place was ever a good source for an intelligent forum community but GW2 guru is a cluster fark of fail. So many flavour of the moment pop up threads about the most random, misguided and often downright stupid ideas.

Half of the threads there start with "I know this hasn't been confirmed but what if..." and then goes into a giant thread in Tyrian Assembly about how angry they are the ranger won't be a class because the warrior can use a bow, or how stupid it is the necromancer being a pet class is or their 20 page long discussions about something else that will become redundant or invalid by an actual factual reveal two weeks later.

I could understand the CMs putting a lot of effort in there if they were suggestions in the suggestion thread or even discussions about facts that have been revealed and questions people might have, but 99% of what takes place at GW2G all begins with a soon to be disproven assumption and ends up wasting everyone's time and results in the forum becoming incredibly difficult to navigate for people wanting to discuss actual information.

Over here it's 99% people winging but at least they are talking about something real that's actually in the game. I hope the CMs dedicate more time to this forum than they do the Guild Wars Beyond sub forum. That was a mistake imo.

I noticed John seemed to indicate Cantha and Elona might be on the cards for future updates despite scepticism from some people due it how little they perceived it would tie into GW2.

It also seems like this might not have been Lynsey's original design direction in what she wanted to do (it seems she wanted to continue Gwen and Thackeray and the Evennia and Ascalon plots but the latter seems to have been put on hold for now with the former dragging on). I would hope this decision to give some love to the other two of ArenaNets games (apparently I've decided a decision was made) was a result of the many people who expressed a desire to return to Factions and Nightfall. A lot of people were unhappy with the idea of not leaving Tyria for Guild Wars Beyond and said as much.

And this prompts the question: which came first, the bad community attitude or the lack of updates? I'd say the former, since as we all know, the game has been dying since a month after release.

Further, even if the content did stop before the community got this rowdy, is that really their fault? They moved on to GW2, and they told us flat out right when that happened that most of the team was working on a new game. Yes, they tried to keep a positive spin on it by saying that they would try to hit certain targets, but ignoring what they said they would try to do, can you really say they've done such a horrible job providing some continuing (and, mind you, free) content for us while we wait? Hell, PvP is probably the best balanced now that it's been since before NF's release, and I've been greatly enjoying the short but actually somewhat challenging bits of content we got in the WiK; some of the best PvE scenarios in the game, I'd say. I realize this is getting somewhat on a tangent here, because this thread is really supposed to be about the CR presence on the forums, but the lead-in campaign to the WiK was a very clear indicator that the players who are really excited and crave information - about GW1, not just GW2 - are at GW2Guru, not here. Threads were made here, people were trying to engage others in the conversation, and either the threads were ignored or the scavenger hunt was laughed at. What more can they do?

@Gnome: if you want to dicuss news on GW2Guru, stick to the NEWS forum. Tyrian Assembly is the speculative forum, because 1) people want to speculate, 2) it needs to all be put somewhere, and 3) it keeps it away from the actual discussion of the news, which does happen...in the proper forum!

This post is full of win.

Been awhile since I've seen a tag like that. Since you're here, any word on FA fixes?

Those coming directly to GW2 are going to be surprised by the level of support. The penny pinching community interaction strategy needs to change, the excuse of 'not really a MMO' will no longer be true.

Not really a MMO or not really a subscription MMO?

Okay so the CRs/Anet are reading some of the stuff here...and JR is right (which I felt was the case). CR in GW is then dead.

So this thread only confirms what many people have experienced, felt or knew. I am still surprised that Anet would go this way....I have no interest in GW2, I have seen all the previews, read all the articles/blogs and the game looks graphically great but I am not sold on it yet. CR/marketing should be trying to win us over, and they continue to fail some of the players as there is no CR. We could talk about GWguru2 but again I have no interest for opinions for a game that is not out yet.

You would think they would try to motivate and build a relationship with a community that is still in GW1 (who choose not to use GW2 forums), to have a rapport with the GW brand, the community, the developer and suck them into Guild Wars 2. If I felt that Anet was engaging me as a customer then perhaps I would feel different about it. I do not care for hugs or kisses, but really there should be regular updates/communication to the current customer base not just the update notes.

Marketing and Customer Management 101 – How to alienate customers? See Anet CR/Marketing GW1 post GW2 announcement.

CRs – If your feeding this back to Anet SMT, then you should be aware that this impacts your role as CRs. Many customers do not relate to you because you do not relate to them, they do not see your enthusiasm, passion and excitement on GW, this you would be surprised goes a long way to build a relationship with customers. Currently the negativity towards the CR for Guild Wars can only spread, well it has been spreading for sometime....your work is going to be much harder.

Silver

Silver, the fact of the matter is: Most of the GW1 community is over at GW2. GW:B got WAY more attention over there.

True enough, but there are many that are not using the other forum, myself included, it is a mess to sort through any reasonable information at all even for GW1 information.

CR is about reaching out to your customers effectively, not them having to reach out to you. Whilst I actively pursue GW2 information, not many will do so, and many players that I know seldom use gwguru2 forums if at all. GWguru2 does not address GW1 communication/relations and regular information.

Also remember that GWB was part of a viral marketing campaign which is about low cost/resource activity to perpetate exponential returns, that had a double impact in a static enviroment. It created apathy and for others it created excitment.

Regardless, several folks have seen or recognised the impact of the lack of 'regular' updates/information and CR here (loosely meaning the current player base as a whole, not necessarily this forum). Do I care, of course, so do the folks who are here voicing their concerns because currently they seem to believe their will be abandonment in GW2, that players will go ignored, no decent information updates and that if CR cannot get things going here (with the recent staff investment) then they will have trouble in GW2.

As a customer in this industry I am amazed that they feel they can 'neglect' a market segment deliberately. Especially when they hype the interweb aspects of GW2, social networking and yet cannot spin any magic here....simply amazed....

Silver

All the information being on a different forum does not mean they're "neglecting" you. It means you need to go to that other forum where there's actual information and discussion. There is no interest here; they and other posters tried to start the discussion here when the WiK was going on, but it didn't catch. That cannot be construed as their fault, period.

Also, there is precisely ONE forum where GW1 (GW:Beyond) discussion happens on GW2G (and it's dedicated to only GW:B, so there's no sifting through GW2 threads), so it's really just a matter of you not giving the forum a try. If you don't like rampant speculation, stay out of the main Tyrian Assembly forum; the News forum is perfectly lively and only deals with confirmed information.

Thanks Sky....however I really do not care about GWB (the fact that I just used wiki when I needed to, never had to get any of the information from GWGuru2), my main point is regular GW information in regards to updates like status of HA maps, class updates, what is being worked possibly and if they want to GWB stuff to go to GWguru2 then so be it.

In regards to neglect, that is anet's choice which they have made clear by confirming JRs post, hence they know they are doing it, so yes they are neglecting customers.

To be really honest, it has been like this for a long time. I have got over it, I would like to see anet's respect increased but that wont happen for other customers. I gave up on the HA map update after 6 months of no news..we are coming up to a year now.

Its anets game and they will make what they want of it.

Silver

I didn't pay attention to Stephane's reference JR's post. Just reread both after seeing other's comment on it. Am I wrong or did a CR just publicly tell us we're gored engined b/c management said so.

I do not want the CRs to get into trouble so make of it what you will, JRs post has several points, all the CR says it makes sense.

The CR is not saying publically that anet management are ignoring us, only that JRs post makes sense.

We do not need to twist the words but the implied impact is sufficient to get the *wink*.

It is not the choice of the CRs to not provide regular updates/information to GW1 players etc.

Silver

I'm pretty sure that Stephane's post referred to JR's explanation why there are no official Anet forums, not why there's not more communication from the CR team. I'm also pretty sure that the CR team works on the principle of: prepare presentation X, prepare interview Y, is everything prepared for the gamescon, and if you've got any more time left, please do take a look at the forums. Not a "Don't you dare go on to the forums!" case...

I'm not sure what you're saying, Silver. They've always been secretive about updates. They tried, once, to tell us that they were working on the XTH but that we'd need to reciprocate by not jumping on them if it didn't go as they planned. It didn't, test failed, commence community griping over ANet lying to us. Small wonder they tell us nothing unless it's set in stone. They've told us the dervish update is in the works, and until they're ready to say for sure what's going to be in it we're not getting any more. The HA map update, I can understand why you'd be upset by not having any info on that, but it's probably because it's not a priority right now (but god forbid they actually say that).

With all due respect towards tha walkin dude, but this is exactly why most of the CR's are not responding to posts that much anymore. If they do respond they immediately get an offtopic question about something.

A few pages back there was someone saying there is no reply in this thread yet and that shows how dead the game is according to him. Now that we do get a reply there immediately is a person who continues doing what made Gaile Grey nearly quit her position as a CRM.

Obviously it is hard to learn from past mistakes, even if there is little response from the CR and even if there are more posts from CR's on different forums, shouldn't we be glad we actually get a reply considering the replies the CR's get when they do respond.

The CR's not responding on this forum doesn't mean the CR's aren't active or ignoring the game, it also tells a lot about the state this forum is in. There must be a reason why Martin is being called awesome and a great CR on the German forum, maybe the community there does appreciate their replies there, even if it is a sporadic response. So if we all would appreciate their replies more and not sarcastically ask whether or not some ´promised´ FA update is done yet and not immediately take the reply the most negative way, i'm reffering to the post where it is said that the CR's must be saying the management of Anet is keeping them from this forum, there would be more appreciation and activeness from the CR's on this forum.

Plus i would like to reply on a post at nearly the beginning of this thread, saying Gaile was to unfriendly towards some of the players and how a CR can't do this.

I understand that a CR should not be bashing one of the costumers but isn't this exactly how it is nowadays in every day life? If you don't reply in a witty or ´agresive´ way you will be overrun and not taken serious anymore. So Gaile had no other choice than to reply in such a manner because otherwise she would be overrun and not taken serious anymore. It might be coming across in a bad manner but it would either be her getting overrun and not taken serious anymore or her showing some will to discuss/fight with the community and gain some respect. I personally would prefer the last because this shows that it is not just her doing her job and following the guidelines but her trying to become part of the community by talking the same way that most of the people do on this forum.

These are just my 2 cents. Sorry for the wall of txt =]