Several Computers linked to 1 keyboard:legal? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

22 Aug 2010 at 23:35 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

And what would be the difference between having other people playing the accounts for you and giving you all the loot compared to YOU doing the task of micro'ing all of them and giving yourself the loot anyways?

Find 7 people to spend their time and give you the benefits of all that time (in GW or irl), then your comparison makes sense. I understand what you're saying, but running multiple clients in order to collect the rewards from the work of one is certainly giving that player an advantage over standard players (thus, you break the EULA).

jonnieboi05

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mableton, Georgia

Guild Ancestors Reunited [?????????]

22 Aug 2010 at 23:46 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

Find 7 people to spend their time and give you the benefits of all that time (in GW or irl), then your comparison makes sense.

Animal shelters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

I understand what you're saying, but running multiple clients in order to collect the rewards from the work of one is certainly giving that player an advantage over standard players (thus, you break the EULA).

If this is against the RoC, then why are all the people who do this day by day, everyday, including myself, not permanently banned because of it?

Stoneys Rock

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Wales, United Kingdom

Great Success [GS]

Mo/

23 Aug 2010 at 01:08 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

Animal shelters.

If this is against the RoC, then why are all the people who do this day by day, everyday, including myself, not permanently banned because of it?

Correct, in my eyes all your accounts are paying customers. You are not using these accounts to swindle, abuse or impact on other players in malicious ways. If you get a benefit its a paid for benefit which can be easily comparisoned to buying pvp skills or an extra character slot.

All these characters need skills to be purchased every time, the drops are not much better compared to farming as only the common drops are affected. Plus you need to factor in the time it would sell them to a merchant over 7 accounts.

it is all legit he is just doing it efficiently and putting in (in my opinion) more work.

I knew someone a long time ago who would log in on a laptop on an alternate account and have his main character's account run him to Droknars Forge from Ascalon is that an unfair advantage? Most likely is as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

Find 7 people to spend their time and give you the benefits of all that time (in GW or irl), then your comparison makes sense. I understand what you're saying, but running multiple clients in order to collect the rewards from the work of one is certainly giving that player an advantage over standard players (thus, you break the EULA).

I understand wholeheartedly what you are trying to say and to a degree agree with you and give you kudos for bringing the EULA into this.

However according to the EULA anyone could be banned at the whim of ArenaNet's will. Personally I think the advantages are slim and while he may be getting 7 accounts of work for the price of one it is at the monetary expense of buying the game eight times, including relevant expansions.

In a way no different from someone who could use multiple computers. I hope you can understand this opinion also.

I'm enjoying this debate I must say, very refreshing to get into a good conversation on these message boards.

Stoneys Rock

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Wales, United Kingdom

Great Success [GS]

Mo/

23 Aug 2010 at 01:51 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MArcSinus

Don't worry about it, the guy probably needs prove the earth goes around the sun everyday.

The point of the thread is of course to discuss if using multiple accounts simultaneous is legal or not. I myself, and more people in this thread, think it's not. Would it be fair to be banned for something like that? I don't think so, the punishment of buying all those accounts and probably don't having a social life makes up for it in my opinion

Besides how many players even use that many accounts? Should be a very very small percentage..

However, some clarification from Anet on this subject would be nice, as it would on a lot of other things, just to get rid of this annoying grey, endlessy debatable area.

Actually if you counted how much time someone would be saving doing all the missions they most likely have the grandest social life of everyone. Thats assuming that they do go outside.

I don't think this a big practice with Guild Wars its a very small isolated percentage if it even can register as a percent. I personally would rather bang my head against a desk than actively manage 8 accounts all at once.

Like you said though it would be interesting to see the response on it, it is though most likely illegal.

Paradise Lost

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2009

UK

W/

23 Aug 2010 at 16:01 - 45

Has been tried by me and probably many others. Simply doesn't work with gw. Nothing lost, nothing gained really. Its not against the rules at all.

Nilator

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/

24 Aug 2010 at 04:25 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

"You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service"

Pretty sure this is an advantage gained through hardware.

ETA:

Before the trolls attack, I should add this clause of the EULA also states that GWx2 and Multi-launch, etc. are all against the rules. According the our log-in message, these accounts (all serious players in GW?) should be TERMINATED, not even face a small suspension/warning...but of course it's their prerogative to pick and choose which elements of their CONTRACT they will follow up on.

That is such a good marketing technique you should probably E-mail them about it.
Not to mention that Multi-Launches are actually quite legal.

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

IMO, if you can sucessfully micro all of your accounts without the usage of a 3rd party program, like what I do, then I give you your kudos and all the more power to you.

It's not match manipulation, it's not botting, it's not rigging your client, it's not doing anything inappropriate or against the EULA/RoC/ToS.

Edit: And in case if anyone is interested, this is what my desktop(s) look like when I run just 8 accounts:

And in case anyone is wondering, the right side of the desktop cuts off like that in the picture because it's only a 19'' monitor (1440x900). The left side is my main monitor (28''; 1920x1200), which is obviously much bigger.

Oh god! Its the Lena's!

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

24 Aug 2010 at 13:10 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nilator

That is such a good marketing technique you should probably E-mail them about it.
Not to mention that Multi-Launches are actually quite legal.

I really felt like letting my side die...and will after this post. I'm not going to reiterate any of my prior comments. All I am going to say is I truly hope the reading comprehension displayed here is not representative of most board members.

When in an argument, simply replying the equivalent of "You're wrong!" fails to be convincing after you enter Kindergarten.

I would love for any of these individuals to read my prior posts and read section 7 of the EULA prior to posting a reply that addresses specific lines of text that support their reasoning.

gg critical thinking skills

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

24 Aug 2010 at 13:40 - 48

Yow. I never thought of something like this, or heard of anyone doing it. You could easily make a stomping DWG team like that. Sounds very bannable to me. Sounds very detectable too. I certainly wouldn't risk it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

1. Do you "simple" clone wasd keys? What if one character gets stuck? Do you clone mouse clicks as well for character movement?

Could probably be done using only keystrokes, and no need to clone mouse. eg. "master" accounts clicks mouse to move (avoiding "sticky" obstacles), then presses a key that selects the first player, then presses space. The effect would be "master" starts moving, then selects themself and tries to auto-attack nearest enemy (cancelled by another click-to-move)... and teh other accounts will auto-follow the master.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

2. How would you organize your task bar for a party of three characters that were different classes?

For all characters, I reckon you'd put the same type of skill in identical positions on the skill bar. A targetless AoE damage skill in slot 1, a party-wide buff/prot skill in slot 2, a party-wide heal in slot 3, etc etc.

eg. press 1, and everybody casts Destructive Was Glaive, press 2 and everybody casts some kind of prot/buff, press 3 everybody heals... etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

3. If you were controlling a party with a healer and a buffer, how do you manage key clones so heals and buffs can be cast on your own party members?

I figure you'd use party-wide heals/buffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

Key cloning programs foresee these problems and offer ways around them. That quickly leads to "1 button press = multiple actions" or "1 button press = different actions for different clients"

I don't think you'd even need to go as far as multiple-action macros per keystroke, you could probably make a steamroller team using a simple scheme as above.

Chrissie Quickdraw

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2010

We are Maligned

R/

24 Aug 2010 at 14:33 - 49

Setting up complex boxteams with tank and healer is hard, if not impossible, in guildwars. But not impossible perse in general.

Even with advanced keycloning, ie "1" sends 1 to all but 1 client (the healer), "alt-1" only send 1 to the healer client, etc. There is still the lacking commands to /target <enemie or friendly by name> and /follow. These 2 commands would be the basic required.

In GW, I could imagine using a cloned "c" to target nearest, which should put a party all on the same target, and nuke it down. At best, a party or selfheal would work to keep everyone alive. With the above example of not cloning a keystroke blindly to all clients, The master client could run a tank.

Somehow I guess that's why all the Lena's are mo/e

I don't think it's even remotelly possible to go beyond this in gw tho.

Nerel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

Australia, what you want my home address?

[CAT]

Mo/

24 Aug 2010 at 15:58 - 50

Smite ball with untargeted AoE healing that only affects allies (Divine Healing, Heal Party etc) or self healing Nukers should work fine in a complete multi box team. Certainly one hell of a spike team.

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

24 Aug 2010 at 17:32 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissie Quickdraw

There is still the lacking commands to /target <enemie or friendly by name> and /follow. These 2 commands would be the basic required.

No.

"Master" could ctrl double-click with mouse to call a target. (ctrl on its own on the "slave" boxes would do nothing).
Then just press T and all boxes would have the same target.

And I already described how you could do the "follow" using keystrokes:
"master" clicks mouse to move
Presses a keystroke that's assigned to target team player 1 ("master")
Presses space... and all boxes will auto-follow the leader, who just keeps using mouse click-to-move.

Chrisworld

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

Gameamp Guides [AMP]

W/

25 Aug 2010 at 21:47 - 52

I used to link two computers together using a virtual KVM switch program called synergy. It works flawlessly. It's not against the Eula and I don't see how I could. Anet has no was of finding out you are running synergy on your pc's, it's not even FOR gaming. They can't tell if you moved your hands to the other pc keyboard or just switched over to the other pc using your main kb. I'd use it again but I'm having trouble getting Windows 7 recognized by my XP computers.

Ghost Dog

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

W/

26 Aug 2010 at 01:47 - 53

This is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing ridiculous.

"Hey I got 12 PC's laying around why not get 12 times the loot for the same in game effort as everyone else?"

Online gaming requires one simple foundation,a level playing field.Maybe some peoples mice and or keyboards are better but that's irrelevant. Not like buying 12 G500's will give me more benefit than one.

Keep up the mental gymnastics and pretend this isn't exploiting, the game didn't come with the capability to run all those accounts simultaneously.

The only companies that embrace this are the ones getting a monthly fee from all the accounts, they only see $.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Aug 2010 at 03:13 - 54

Wow, this much discussion about how someone else plays a videogame that they paid for. Unless you're in PvP or on a team with someone, nothing anyone else does affects you or is any of your frikkin' business. I hope the mock outrage is truly just mock. Otherwise, the QQ is even sadder.
Let me say it again: Unless you're in PvP or on a team with someone, nothing anyone else does affects you or is any of your frikkin' business.

Yaksha

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2010

N/R

26 Aug 2010 at 04:17 - 55

Quote:

Could probably be done using only keystrokes, and no need to clone mouse. eg. "master" accounts clicks mouse to move (avoiding "sticky" obstacles), then presses a key that selects the first player, then presses space. The effect would be "master" starts moving, then selects themself and tries to auto-attack nearest enemy (cancelled by another click-to-move)... and teh other accounts will auto-follow the master.

That kind of thing works, but not when you need to move characters separately. (e.g. during combat, with frontliners, midliners, etc.) If you're main is the frontliner, trying to move a certain backliner in one direction (e.g. running away from an attack) is going to be annoying to do.

You could just switch windows, but that's slow. During combat you must have a system of controlling your characters *quickly*

Quote:

For all characters, I reckon you'd put the same type of skill in identical positions on the skill bar. A targetless AoE damage skill in slot 1, a party-wide buff/prot skill in slot 2, a party-wide heal in slot 3, etc etc.

eg. press 1, and everybody casts Destructive Was Glaive, press 2 and everybody casts some kind of prot/buff, press 3 everybody heals... etc

Yes, you'd do that. I did that for Runes of Magic.

It's harder to do on GUild Wars if you want a balace of classes though. Assassin for example, needs certain skills in order.

The healer has skills it needs to spam. But not every class has a skill that needs to be spammed during combat.

What you suggest is not going to give you a very efficient / powerful party in guild wars.

Also different party members want to target different things. The interrupter in your party probably doesn't want to target the same thing as your nuker.

Quote:

I figure you'd use party-wide heals/buffs.

once again, you aren't going to get very efficient / good builds like that.
Also, what if the necro puts the minion party heal (blood of the master) in the same spot as the monk puts his party heal?
Bad idea, since the monk can spam his as long as he has energy. The necro can't because that skill is health sacrifice.

Quote:

I don't think you'd even need to go as far as multiple-action macros per keystroke, you could probably make a steamroller team using a simple scheme as above.

I'd love to see an example.

I can only see this working vaguely, if you had a party where everyone was the same class. or at least the same idea (e.g. everyone is a nuker).

But anyone who wants to multi account with something more complex isn't going to get away with simple key cloning

Lastly, for anyone who thinks this is easy. Go make a few Guild Wars trail accounts. You can get them for free from the playNC webpage. Create characters of different classes and try to play through pre-searing...

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Aug 2010 at 07:10 - 56

Unless I'm mistaken, his accounts were 7 spikers, and there was another person as a tank to pull for spikes. I could be wrong though.

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

26 Aug 2010 at 07:40 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

That kind of thing works, but not when you need to move characters separately. (e.g. during combat, with frontliners, midliners, etc.) If you're main is the frontliner, trying to move a certain backliner in one direction (e.g. running away from an attack) is going to be annoying to do.

All valid points, but if you were going to do this sort of thing, you wouldn't bother with a balanced team of characters that need positioning. You'd deliberately choose a team that works well in a bunch. And you'd choose builds specifically geared up for multi-boxing.

Destructive was Glaive teams are a good example. You could do an awful lot of PvE areas just by making all boxes:
Cast DwG
Cast whatever's in the "prot" slot
Rush at mob
Recast DwG (which auto-drops the first pot, Boom)
Drop the second DwG (Boom, everything nearby is dead)
Cast whatever's in the "heal" slot
Mop up any stragglers by calling targets and using a secondary attack skill, plus prots/heals if required.

I'm sure there are plenty of other teams you could make, that would work as well or better, that require no macro-control, and/or cope with different types of mob.

Yaksha

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2010

N/R

26 Aug 2010 at 11:42 - 58

Yes, I know there'd be a few 'group' builds where you'd be able to get away with fairly simple key cloning.

I guess my point was not that you'd defintely *need* something more than simply key cloning to play multiple accounts, but just that it is fairly easy for players to slip into using more and more sophisticated methods of control. Especially when keycloning programs allow it.

I don't really have a problem with people multiboxing - in the sense that I don't feel it's unfair. However when you have a lot of people multiboxing, there are going to be some who design groups to make it easy to multibox, and some who will try to multibox a proper balanced party and use more sophisticated control systems.

And when you have that, what is 'fair' becomes a more controversial topic.

Ghost Dog

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

W/

26 Aug 2010 at 19:36 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

Unless you're in PvP or on a team with someone, nothing anyone else does affects you or is any of your frikkin' business.

Online game, one guy gets 12 times the loot doing the same work as one.

Simple enough for you squirt?

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Aug 2010 at 22:07 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

Online game, one guy gets 12 times the loot doing the same work as one.

Simple enough for you squirt?

And, how does that affect you?

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

26 Aug 2010 at 22:11 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

And, how does that affect you?

It affects the economy in the same way as botting does...

Stoneys Rock

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Wales, United Kingdom

Great Success [GS]

Mo/

26 Aug 2010 at 22:29 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

It affects the economy in the same way as botting does...

In no way will it ever affect it as much as botting. For a start those 8 accounts would be mutually exclusive and would ultimately be playing together and not selling gold for real life money.

Secondly rare drops don't change if I went and farmed an entire zone something tedious whether there is 8 of you or not, the drops do not change, they do not increase at all. White drops and merchant fodder maybe but at the cost of time.

You could argue "what about chests? 8 chances to get a good item? QQ" You still got to pay for 8 keys so what is the difference. The only benefit is time your saving. The only increased form of income would be from completing missions with masters or hard mode and getting gold from that, which is the entire point of the game anyway.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Aug 2010 at 23:01 - 63

I promised myself I would never get into a fictional economy argument again. However, I will say that the economic argument seems to be used as an excuse by people who are way too concerned about what other people have and/or are doing, i.e. busybodies, nosy neighbors and old ladies at beauty parlors.

INB4 This is why what this guy is doing has no effect on your ability to play the game:
Even if your money becomes worth less, your character has no basic needs, i.e. your toon won't die of starvation or exposure. Money in GW almost exclusively relates to bling.
These days, the amount of gold it takes to be on a level playing field with others is negligible. Buying and runing a set of 1k armor, acquiring suitably modded max weapons and buying a few skills is not that costly of an endeavor. It's likely that if you're in a guild or have friends in game, many of these things may simply be given to you, e.g. crafting mats, green weapons and tomes.

Yaksha

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2010

N/R

27 Aug 2010 at 06:26 - 64

Even if someone running 8 accounts ended up with 8x loot over all the accounts, or 8x chests for each of yours, that's not unfair.

If you paid 8 times the money, and over all 8 accounts ended up with 8x more stuff, that's entirely fair.

It's like saying someone who buys 8 lottery tickets, when everyone else chooses to buy only 1 ticket, is unfair because they have 8x the chance to win.

If you bought 1 ticket like everyone else and somehow rigged things so you had 8x the chance to win, that would be unfair.

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

27 Aug 2010 at 14:24 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneys Rock

In no way will it ever affect it as much as botting. .

I said "in the same way," not "as much as."

Here's a personal example: simply running 8 accounts through a dungeon, I used to gain 3-4 frog scepters in less than two hours each night. You think that action taken by multiple people wouldn't affect prices? By myself (actually, one other friend was doing the same thing), I kept lowering prices because I didn't have time to sell that many for full prices...and the community followed to compete with these low prices.

Beauty parlors and lotto tickets? Bad analogies are bad...

Go read the EULA (section 7, specifically) and use verbiage from the contract to defend the actions being discussed.

MArcSinus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2010

The Netherlands

Are We Friends [NLT]

E/

27 Aug 2010 at 14:40 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

Even if someone running 8 accounts ended up with 8x loot over all the accounts, or 8x chests for each of yours, that's not unfair.

If you paid 8 times the money, and over all 8 accounts ended up with 8x more stuff, that's entirely fair.

It's like saying someone who buys 8 lottery tickets, when everyone else chooses to buy only 1 ticket, is unfair because they have 8x the chance to win.

If you bought 1 ticket like everyone else and somehow rigged things so you had 8x the chance to win, that would be unfair.

It is unfair because he get's all the loot and chests 8 times faster then he would play them one by one!

StefanCandan

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2010

27 Aug 2010 at 15:36 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

Here's a personal example: simply running 8 accounts through a dungeon, I used to gain 3-4 frog scepters in less than two hours each night. You think that action taken by multiple people wouldn't affect prices? By myself (actually, one other friend was doing the same thing), I kept lowering prices because I didn't have time to sell that many for full prices...and the community followed to compete with these low prices.

Lets assume myself and 7 guildies of mine went bogroots farming for froggies.
The chance is that we have the same chance to drop 3-4 froggies in the same amount of time. Then we go sell the froggies. Everyone will be selling them at lets say, 75e each. Noone will be buying, because there are other people selling froggies at the same time. in the end, you'll have to drop your price to get a faster sale. If one of the players drop his brice by 5 ecto, everyone else will have to go along, or face a longer time spent merchanting. While the other people will have to drop along, or lower to sell theirs. in the end noone is harmed by you selling 4 froggies, compared to 4 people selling 1 froggie each. There are 4 froggies, and 4 people. it does give you alot of money, but the economy is still the same, as prices fluctate around(See the ecto, 6k, 6.5k, 6k, 7k, 7.5k, 8k, 6k, etc. etc.).

Almost everyone here is looking at the economy for theirselves, but think about the whole GW Economy, its not harmed in anyway. The chances you get 4x a good item are the same chances someone else gets 4x a good item shared among his team.

Basically the only thing that could be ruined by multi-boxing is the PvP side of GW. Imagine having 16 accounts, setting up 2 guilds and gvging eachother just to get your rating up. Imagine synching RA with 8 accounts, just so you get to fight yourself, and get your title up, and get balthasar faction. Imagine entering a GvG Tourney, just so you have multiple chances of winning that price, and even a chance to have s afe spot, as chances are that you'll have to be facing yourself.

In no way multi-boxing will ruin the economy.

The Mountain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Realm of the GWAMMs

Teh Academy [PhD]

W/

27 Aug 2010 at 15:56 - 68

You forget that when I run 8 accounts through, my guildies (your example) will still be farming elsewhere in the game, producing more loot to add to the economy. I drop prices more when accumulating additional wealth with several clients because of the burden of selling multiple items each day.

Yaksha

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2010

N/R

28 Aug 2010 at 06:18 - 69

Quote:

Here's a personal example: simply running 8 accounts through a dungeon, I used to gain 3-4 frog scepters in less than two hours each night. You think that action taken by multiple people wouldn't affect prices? By myself (actually, one other friend was doing the same thing), I kept lowering prices because I didn't have time to sell that many for full prices...and the community followed to compete with these low prices.

You paid 8 times the money for 8 accounts, why is it unfair that you get more 'stuff' than someone who paid only once?

Quote:

Beauty parlors and lotto tickets? Bad analogies are bad...

No they're not, it's the exact same idea.

People seem to think that in a game like Guild Wars, things are supposed to be *fair*. Everyone should be treated equally, etc.

You forget Guild Wars is a commercial product. The company can say - one account per person. That's not hard to enforce (e.g. many online games, like free browser games, mandate this).

However in MMOs, there is no such restriction. People are free to spend as much money as they want, to purchase as many accounts (and therefore reap the benefits of them) as they want.

Quote:

Go read the EULA (section 7, specifically) and use verbiage from the contract to defend the actions being discussed.

The EULA says nothing against advantage gained due to owning more than one account.

The EULA could be interpreted to be against advantage gained due to using things such as keycloners and macros, however based on past things said by anet staff members, I am under the belief that they do not mind those things being used.

Quote:

It is unfair because he get's all the loot and chests 8 times faster then he would play them one by one!

And he paid 8x for that right.

Quote:

You forget that when I run 8 accounts through, my guildies (your example) will still be farming elsewhere in the game, producing more loot to add to the economy. I drop prices more when accumulating additional wealth with several clients because of the burden of selling multiple items each day.

Your comparison is completely flawed. We are not talking about players, we are talking about accounts.

In StefanCandan's example, he talked about himself and 7 guildies. That is a total of 8 accounts, generating a certain amount of in-game wealth.

In your example, if you run 8 accounts and your guildies are farming elsewhere. That is a total of 8 + 7 = 15 accounts.

I'm not sure what is so insightful about making a comparison between 8 accounts and 15 accounts.

From the company's point of view:
- Selling one copy of guild wars, and seeing that account get very very rich (let's say, about 8x as rich as the average active player)
- Selling 8 copies of guild wars, and seeing each account get to a pretty average level of rich-ness
Are two very different things. It doesn't matter if the 8 copies sold were to different people or to a group of friends or to the same human player.

MArcSinus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2010

The Netherlands

Are We Friends [NLT]

E/

28 Aug 2010 at 10:22 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaksha

You paid 8 times the money for 8 accounts, why is it unfair that you get more 'stuff' than someone who paid only once?

No they're not, it's the exact same idea.

People seem to think that in a game like Guild Wars, things are supposed to be *fair*. Everyone should be treated equally, etc.

You forget Guild Wars is a commercial product. The company can say - one account per person. That's not hard to enforce (e.g. many online games, like free browser games, mandate this).

However in MMOs, there is no such restriction. People are free to spend as much money as they want, to purchase as many accounts (and therefore reap the benefits of them) as they want.

The EULA says nothing against advantage gained due to owning more than one account.

The EULA could be interpreted to be against advantage gained due to using things such as keycloners and macros, however based on past things said by anet staff members, I am under the belief that they do not mind those things being used.

And he paid 8x for that right.

Your comparison is completely flawed. We are not talking about players, we are talking about accounts.

In StefanCandan's example, he talked about himself and 7 guildies. That is a total of 8 accounts, generating a certain amount of in-game wealth.

In your example, if you run 8 accounts and your guildies are farming elsewhere. That is a total of 8 + 7 = 15 accounts.

I'm not sure what is so insightful about making a comparison between 8 accounts and 15 accounts.

From the company's point of view:
- Selling one copy of guild wars, and seeing that account get very very rich (let's say, about 8x as rich as the average active player)
- Selling 8 copies of guild wars, and seeing each account get to a pretty average level of rich-ness
Are two very different things. It doesn't matter if the 8 copies sold were to different people or to a group of friends or to the same human player.

OBJECTION!

Your logic has some mayor flaws.

1. First of all you assume that multboxing isn't against the EULA.

However, as you already said yourself, the EULA is pretty vague. It doesn't have specific statements about multiboxing. A lot of games have specific statements about this case. Anet doesn't, so your assumption only rests on your interpretation of the rules.
You also said that you are basing your opionion on statements from Anet staff members? I would like to see a link or quote please. Also mind the difference between "It's illegal but we don't care." and "It's legal go ahead." Either could be the case.

2. You are constantly justifying multiboxing by saying that he or she payed for all the accounts. This is also a false argument, since you like comparisons so much, let's say that I buy multiple cars, the law still doesn't let me drive multiple cars at the same time. Simply saying "You've paid for it" doesn't make something legal or illegal.

3. Let's make an important difference here between accounts and persons. It's not 1 account which get 8 times richer and 7 who don't, but it is in fact 1 person who gets 8 times richer. And that is basically the problem in a nutshell. Putting the farming process of the person in a timeframe, one can easily see he or she get's richer at a much faster rate then someone just playing regularly. Which saves him or she a lot of time in which he or she can do something else, or even farm more to get even richer!
Now it's not hard to see that the curve of this gold versus time graph isn't a linear one, as described in all examples, but in fact an exponential one!

Chrisworld

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

Gameamp Guides [AMP]

W/

28 Aug 2010 at 14:57 - 71

The difference between multiboxing and having a few friends over your house playing on their accounts? I muliboxed for a while and nothing foul came of it. You guys need to relax and stop the ridiculous comparisons. Play the damn game and stop analyzing what this can do and what that can do. When you realize you've wasted so much energy and time trying to justify who's right and wrong gw2 will already be an old game and what was all this fighting for anyway?

Meridon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Funny Business Inc [FBI]

28 Aug 2010 at 17:39 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by MArcSinus

OBJECTION!
2. You are constantly justifying multiboxing by saying that he or she payed for all the accounts. This is also a false argument, since you like comparisons so much, let's say that I buy multiple cars, the law still doesn't let me drive multiple cars at the same time. Simply saying "You've paid for it" doesn't make something legal or illegal.]

OBJECTION!

I Demand a quote from Burgelijk Wetkboek boek 8! Your assumptions are false!

On topic, I don't think playing multiple accounts at the same time is cheating. Also, banning it would bring up severe issues with families playing from the same wireless IP. As long as the process isn't severely automated, it should be allowed.

A script that makes 7 other accounts copy the actions of the first account is botting in my book though, as it makes the accounts itself play fully automated, even though there is technically someone at the PC playing the game.

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

30 Aug 2010 at 16:58 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

A script that makes 7 other accounts copy the actions of the first account is botting in my book though, as it makes the accounts itself play fully automated, even though there is technically someone at the PC playing the game.

Wait, what?

Without taking a side in the argument either way, I can't tell what your reasoning here is. You basically just said "it makes play fully automated, even though it's technically not fully automated."

Meridon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Funny Business Inc [FBI]

30 Aug 2010 at 18:35 - 74

I'm sorry, I should've clarified.

I was reasoning from this situation:

One person, playing Guild Wars, controlling 8 accounts grouped in one party at the same time. However, he or she doesn't control all 8 players manually, instead he controls one account manually, and lets all the other accounts copy the commands entered on account number one.

It means that technically there is someone at the PC playing. Yet, 7 out of 8 accounts are not being controlled manually, they are actually running on a script that controls them, by copying the first account. I think this is worth being classed as botting.

The reason I stated it this way, is because Anet always drew the line in botting like this:
-a user controlling an account manually (with the use of a few macros or not) = not botting = legal.
-a character playing the game by itself (with for example the user going AFK) = botting = illegal.

By my definition and situation, the aforementioned seven accounts are botting and therefore illegal. The first account however, technically isn't (even though Anet would probably still ban in a case like this).

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

30 Aug 2010 at 18:43 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

I'm sorry, I should've clarified.

I was reasoning from this situation:

One person, playing Guild Wars, controlling 8 accounts grouped in one party at the same time. However, he or she doesn't control all 8 players manually, instead he controls one account manually, and lets all the other accounts copy the commands entered on account number one.

It means that technically there is someone at the PC playing. Yet, 7 out of 8 accounts are not being controlled manually, they are actually running on a script that controls them, by copying the first account. I think this is worth being classed as botting.

The reason I stated it this way, is because Anet always drew the line in botting like this:
-a user controlling an account manually (with the use of a few macros or not) = not botting = legal.
-a character playing the game by itself (with for example the user going AFK) = botting = illegal.

By my definition and situation, the aforementioned seven accounts are botting and therefore illegal. The first account however, technically isn't (even though Anet would probably still ban in a case like this).

I can't help but think you're misunderstanding what's going on, then. There's no "script" involved (in games like WoW, there are, but GW has no in-game scripting. One of its big flaws, I feel). Pressing a key on the "master" is the same as pressing a key on the "slaves". None of the accounts, master nor slave, do anything if the user doesn't press any keys (goes AFK).

So how is it botting?

Meridon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Funny Business Inc [FBI]

30 Aug 2010 at 20:29 - 76

OP Suggests that in his example. pressing a key on a 'master' account, directly results in the same action being executed on a 'slave' account. This means that all behaviour on the 'slave' accounts is not directly generated by a user, but actually by a user-made script, that automatically copies and re-enacts any behaviour from the 'master' account.

The core question is, does this cross the line of legal (human play) to illegal (botting)?

My answer to that question is yes, because without a script the user wouldn't be able to control his 'slave' accounts like that at the same time, by the use of only one keyboard. This means that 7 out of 8 'slave' accounts in OP's FOW-example completely rely on automated commands to function properly. This is a significant difference from key macros, as key macros only enchance direct human input on one account. OP's example however, is botting in my opinion, because the 'slave' accounts are no more simply a result of enhanced human input, they are in fact fully automated, as long as the user plays on his 'master' account.

As you can see I'm drawing the line at where direct interaction between a human and an account disappears (because in his example, the slave accounts, as a whole, are not directly controlled by a human but by a script). But hey, that's just me. In the end, Anet makes the call.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

30 Aug 2010 at 20:46 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

Living in denial and suppressing rage.

What you're talking about is the same software that allows your keyboard to function with one computer, it just sends it to additional targets.
Would you feel better about all of this if he manually spliced the keyboard wires, because that is what it seems like you're hinting at?

Light And Peace

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2010

30 Aug 2010 at 22:28 - 78

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/EVE...ing,10166.html

Quote:

Kromtor was originally kicked off EVE Online for software multiboxing: the act of sending a keyboard or mouse click to multiple computers
or clients at the same time using software such as Synergy, Keyclone, and more. CCP banned him from the MMORPG for three days, citing "macro use."

To get around the multiboxing software
restriction, Kromtor has now created his current setup. The system consists of four wooden dowels draped across six keypads--each dowel has six screws that come into contact with the same keys on each pad. Also in the mix are six mice connected together with packing tape and skewers.

Here's an example from another gaming mmo.

Since multi launch, isn't illegal, I think it's okay to have more than once instance of GW running on a computer, but it's _NOT_ okay to have any third party program that automates the play of the other character. I think if you are going between windows and clicking and doing commands it's one thing, but it's another to have a program that copies and sends it to another box for you.

In regards to people who pay to have 8 accounts running, I don't think that's a big deal since because it's still 8 accounts that were purchases and those 8 accounts technically have to be worked on also. Granted, you could pool all the loot into one account, but to get all 8 accounts blinged up, it's going to take some time. Remember all the accounts need skills/spells, equipment to assist with the farming.

I don't think a person can control 8 accounts without the aid of an illegal 3rd party program. I can see 2 accounts or even 3, but that's about it.

Meridon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Funny Business Inc [FBI]

31 Aug 2010 at 07:06 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

What you're talking about is the same software that allows your keyboard to function with one computer, it just sends it to additional targets.
Would you feel better about all of this if he manually spliced the keyboard wires, because that is what it seems like you're hinting at?

Lol what?

I'm just stating my opinion with arguments. Calling me 'living in denial and suppressed rage' doesn't exactly make me take you seriously. Neither does it sound too friendly, isn't that right Rahja?

It sounds like I offended you by calling you a cheat without realizing. Nevertheless, if this is what you do (copying keystrokes to several instances of the game to run additional accounts without direct human input), then I stand by my point that I think what you are doing is wrong. The only in my opinion legal way to control multiple accounts at the same time (with the exception of manually switching windows all the time, effectively leaving the rest of your accounts afk for a brief period) is having multiple boxes running side by side, with multiple keyboards stacked up, which is of course completely unpractical.