DP. A terrible idea. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Lord Dagon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2009

Inside the Oblivion Gate

The Imperial Guards of Istan[TIGE]

E/Me

31 Aug 2010 at 20:23 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Hear Hear!

I suggest that when a character dies, they be strengthened rather than weakened. As we all know, PvE is incredibly difficult in Guild Wars and should be burned to the ground with the fire of the ancients.

Therefore, I suggest to you - the people of Guild Wars - that upon the death of your character, you should be granted the heath of Rotscale, the defensive capabilities of Duncan the Black, the persistence of Shiro, and the general reapiness of Dhuum.

Surely, Anet cannot refute our battle cries of torment. Our characters bodies litter their servers. For God's sake, have a heart Anet, and prevent the unnecessary tragedy that befalls our very souls!

epicness.

but yea the problem id say the OP is having is that hes a ranger. TBH rangers dont really have much of a purpose in PvE.
oh and if u dont have max armor.. go get it. Also, there is no exscuse not to know aobut max armor or anyhting else in this game non-lore related. anet gave us a nice Gw wiki. so yea. go there if u dont know

Whirl E Vic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2009

D/

31 Aug 2010 at 20:46 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Hear Hear!

I suggest that when a character dies, they be strengthened rather than weakened. As we all know, PvE is incredibly difficult in Guild Wars and should be burned to the ground with the fire of the ancients.

Therefore, I suggest to you - the people of Guild Wars - that upon the death of your character, you should be granted the heath of Rotscale, the defensive capabilities of Duncan the Black, the persistence of Shiro, and the general reapiness of Dhuum.

Surely, Anet cannot refute our battle cries of torment. Our characters bodies litter their servers. For God's sake, have a heart Anet, and prevent the unnecessary tragedy that befalls our very souls!

Thumbs up for this, but I would also like to request the spirit rift of Z'him Monns while we're at it.

TheodenKing

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

DoA

Dark Order of Retarded Knights (doRk)

N/Me

31 Aug 2010 at 20:55 - 43

Interesting this topic comes up now... shortly after the game designers explained death and healing in gw2, and that THEY think DP is a bad idea. It's almost as if the OP was just echoing what he just read.

Elektraaa

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2010

31 Aug 2010 at 21:02 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

Raptors also give me major trouble. They hit for an unbelivable amount of damage 100+

This is so frustrating fighting raptors

Chrisworld

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

Gameamp Guides [AMP]

W/

31 Aug 2010 at 21:20 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

What was the great idea with this shit? Oh yeah you're already having trouble with something so we'll go and make it harder. Great idea.

I'm assuming you're new to the game. Most of us have been playing the game for 5 years, 4 years... etc.. learn to cope with it and how to play the game better like we ALL had to learn how to do. No one held my hand through the DP.

Darcy

Never Too Old

Join Date: Jul 2006

Rhode Island where there are no GW contests

Order of First

W/R

31 Aug 2010 at 21:31 - 46

Stop saying buy consumables. If he is only level 17 in any campaign, he doesn't have enough gold to buy them. Or to buy a run or to get max armor.

Give us some facts. What campaign and what mission? We can't give specific help without more info. Some missions have little tricks to them that make life easier.

Verene

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2009

[SOTA]

D/

31 Aug 2010 at 21:37 - 47

Go to your inventory screen and take a look at what armor you have - what does it say the armor rating is? What runes/insignias do you have applied, if any? What is your current max HP? You say you're fighting in EOTN - what campaign did you start out in? EOTN is designed to be played after you've completed one of the other campaigns and already have a grasp on the game itself, the difficulty on it is higher than the actual campaigns. What heroes and henchmen do you regularly bring with you? What skills do you have equipped on your bar, and what skills do you have on your heroes' bars?

All of this is info we'll need to know to help you out more.

Laraja

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

Somewhere over the rainbow

Descendents of Honor

Rt/

31 Aug 2010 at 21:43 - 48

I like the DP. It makes you careful, it makes you strategize, and if you're dying a lot, you need to look at what you're doing and your build and what henchmen you're bringing. Study the area before you go by looking at Guild Wiki. It'll tell you what kind of enemies you'll come across in a particular area. Build according.

DP removal. You'll learn about those. Very handy items. Candy canes. Power Stones of Courage, various other items. Usually people only bring them out in HM, so don't worry about it right now. It's better to learn about max amor and runes to boost your spells/attacks and health.

Long before I started playing GW, I played Runescape (lame I know, but it was all my ancient computer could run so I was stuck with it until I got a new computer). When you died you were SCREWED. The death penalty was so punitive that most everyone was afraid to try things that might end up in death. When you died you lost everything in inventory except for your three priciest things according the RS, not according to you. When people PvP'ed they'd go out with the very least amount of things in their inventory and leave the nice armor behind.

Play RS for a while and you'll be thankful that GW's DP is just a slap on the wrist to be more careful and possible scrutinize your build.

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

31 Aug 2010 at 21:50 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

Stop saying buy consumables. If he is only level 17 in any campaign, he doesn't have enough gold to buy them. Or to buy a run or to get max armor.

Give us some facts. What campaign and what mission? We can't give specific help without more info. Some missions have little tricks to them that make life easier.

He mentioned raptors, so he can get max armor in Boreal Station. Having Eye of the North, he also has heroes. I think this is all a matter of learning a bit more about the mechanics of the game (leveling, armor, heroes, skills, etc...) before making an angry public spectacle.

To the OP, I highly recommend you find a helpful guild to give you some good advice on those things I mentioned. It's very cheap and easy to get your gear maxed out, so everything else is just a matter of setting up good builds and learning decent tactics.

Verene

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jan 2009

[SOTA]

D/

31 Aug 2010 at 21:58 - 50

Well, getting max armor doesn't seem very cheap when you've just begun the game. To me, 5k is just a drop in the bucket now, but I remember when I started and was trying to scrape together the money and materials for armor.

jonnieboi05

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mableton, Georgia

Guild Ancestors Reunited [?????????]

31 Aug 2010 at 22:39 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Hear Hear!

I suggest that when a character dies, they be strengthened rather than weakened. As we all know, PvE is incredibly difficult in Guild Wars and should be burned to the ground with the fire of the ancients.

Therefore, I suggest to you - the people of Guild Wars - that upon the death of your character, you should be granted the heath of Rotscale, the defensive capabilities of Duncan the Black, the persistence of Shiro, and the general reapiness of Dhuum.

Surely, Anet cannot refute our battle cries of torment. Our characters bodies litter their servers. For God's sake, have a heart Anet, and prevent the unnecessary tragedy that befalls our very souls!

lol I love you.

@ OP - Perhaps you'd be more inclined to appreciate DP rather than hate it. If I recall correctly, isn't/wasn't there a game that, should you die, it leaves your character permanently dead if you ever die, forcing you to make a brand new character? ...Yea... No thanks. I'll stick to GW and its DP.

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elektraaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

Raptors also give me major trouble. They hit for an unbelivable amount of damage 100+

This is so frustrating fighting raptors

LOL!!

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

31 Aug 2010 at 22:44 - 52

Remember when you hit the lava, it made you smaller. Same principle, down but not out.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

31 Aug 2010 at 22:56 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Remember when you hit the lava, it made you smaller. Same principle, down but not out.

Honestly, I always thought that was a metaphor to explain the future dating lives of their clientele.

Oh, and the mushrooms, etc.

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

31 Aug 2010 at 23:26 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

If you're talking about Normal mode, DP is nothing. Play an Asian MMO where you lose equipment you're wearing, items you're holding, and experience.

Is nothing even in HM. DP is there to make you notice you are doing something wrong . In those games you mention you can do everything right and still some gankers and lamers bring mobs to you , kill you when you have lots of lower lvl than them , you know that stuff ..... and even so , you lose XP , items and XP. Thats a pain in the ass and a bad idea , DP in GW is not.

Shadowphoenix

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2008

W/

31 Aug 2010 at 23:28 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Hear Hear!

I suggest that when a character dies, they be strengthened rather than weakened. As we all know, PvE is incredibly difficult in Guild Wars and should be burned to the ground with the fire of the ancients.

Therefore, I suggest to you - the people of Guild Wars - that upon the death of your character, you should be granted the heath of Rotscale, the defensive capabilities of Duncan the Black, the persistence of Shiro, and the general reapiness of Dhuum.

Surely, Anet cannot refute our battle cries of torment. Our characters bodies litter their servers. For God's sake, have a heart Anet, and prevent the unnecessary tragedy that befalls our very souls!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elektraaa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Remember when you hit the lava, it made you smaller. Same principle, down but not out.

ROFLMFAO you 3 guys are the best epic posters of this thread, my hat to you guys hahahahahahaa

AndroBubbles

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2009

Mo/

01 Sep 2010 at 00:08 - 56

DP is a good concept, but there are a few small improvements to how it could be applied. I don't think it should be permanent sas morale boosts/gaining experience. It should wear off slowly imo, or just get rid of more per unit of experience/morale.

Darcy

Never Too Old

Join Date: Jul 2006

Rhode Island where there are no GW contests

Order of First

W/R

01 Sep 2010 at 01:16 - 57

It does wear off. Every time you kill something points come off the DP. The idea is to make you more cautious and to think about improving your tactics.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

01 Sep 2010 at 01:19 - 58

Andro, it does wear off as you gain XP. This is really noticeable in HM, where killing a couple of mobs without dying can basically reset your DP to 0%. Also, quest rewards wipe DP too.

Can everyone stop being so hard on the OP? He's clearly new, and clearly new to MMOs in general. In most other games, if you die, you get sent back to a checkpoint to try again. Most MMOs can't do this, since they're fully persistent, so they throw death penalties in there to keep you "honest", reward players for not dying, and to disallow players to "zergrush" difficult content until they finally beat it on the backs of their many deaths.

GW is kind of a mix between the two, in that you can always go back to a "checkpoint" (ie, the nearest town) and try again, completely refreshed. Alternatively, if you choose to stay in the persistent world, you need to deal with (very lenient) DP, to again prevent you from just running at mobs with your henchies and killing them one by one to get through the content. If it ever gets to be too much, consider that the single-player equivalent of "dying" and needing to restart at the last checkpoint. It's no more restrictive that that system, it's the fact that it's dressing it up as a choice whether or not you want to continue ramming your head into the wall that gets you frustrated.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

01 Sep 2010 at 01:23 - 59

Remember when games used to have lives and you ran out of them, and some games had passwords that would embarrass current wireless security? Oh and you could never find a health pick-up or you died in one hit?

Let's go back to that, it was fine.

Lysinc

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2009

01 Sep 2010 at 06:48 - 60

People should be a little nicer. With the upcoming release of GW2, we are getting a lot of new players in GW1. Let's not try to be mean OK?

To answer the topic starter's question. DP is implemented so we can't slap on any random skills and expect to beat the game. If we had no DP and facing a group of 10 hard enemies, we can just kill 1 monster, die, revive, kill another monster, die, revive, etc... That poses no strategy to the game. It will just mean that as long as you have a lot of free time to spend on the game, you can beat it. That's why DP is implemented so we have to actually use strategies to get somewhere in the game.

Furthermore, since raptors are hitting you for 100+ on your ranger, I'm going to assume you do not have max armor. I suggest you go to the wiki site listed below to find a armor skin you like. It shows you what materials are need to create it and which NPC to go to.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger_armor

godis

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

LOVE

N/Me

01 Sep 2010 at 06:49 - 61

When you are in the game press F10 and you will have a direct link to the helpful wiki.
Type armor in the box and press search. Locate an armor crafter close to your position and manufacture new armor.
Locate a Rune trader and buy runes and insignias for you and your heroes. ( Survivor insignias is recommended )
Check www.PvXwiki.com for builds for you and your heroes. If you can't afford armor and runes, start saving up... Don't buy any other stuff than armor, runes and skills

Oleg

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

The Apologetti

W/

01 Sep 2010 at 07:38 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

What was the great idea with this shit? Oh yeah you're already having trouble with something so we'll go and make it harder. Great idea.

It's amazing how few responses actually dealt with the question. He's not asking how to avoid DP or what to do when he has it. He's asking what's the idea with it?

It doesn't exist in GW2 for a reason. For many players it isn't fun. The game is meant to be fun right? Fun in a game usually involves a challenge, but a challenge you can do. He's struggling and dying which then makes something near impossible actually impossible. That doesn't seem to be a great idea.

I'd say the point of DP is to provide a wake up call when you've gone too far too early. If you find yourself with constant DP go back to an earlier part of the game and do a few quests. You'll likely find something that you used to think was hard is now easy. The last thing you want is to complete a campaign and still have no real idea of what you are doing. DP shows you the extent of your current ability. It makes something already too hard for you even harder so that you don't poinltessly grind against something you aren't ready for.

Before long you'll be vanquishing with no armour or shield and only a candy cane sword as a weapon (try it - it's fun. You'll die a few times but it's a laugh). Right now, use DP as a guide of what missions and quests you should be doing.

There should be an incentive to make you want to live. I'd agree that DP probably isn't the best one, but it's not that bad either. Maybe the threat of DP will make you run away from things you can't beat rather than rushing in again and again only to die.

Fawxy Lawxy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2008

Mrs. Boase has returned. Respect the beard.

Me/E

01 Sep 2010 at 07:51 - 63

Stop insinuating Guild Wars is a difficult game to play. Srsly. Bring heroes and henchies and hit c-space while watching TV. People complaining about this game being hard in any way is ridiculous. When they made EoTn they even put res shrines in the dungeons. Which is pretty ridiculous IMO. Should be like a mission. If you wipe its over.

tl;dr: OP is a derp.

Nechrond

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2009

Netherlands

Utrecht Usurpators

D/

01 Sep 2010 at 07:59 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

No one held my hand through the DP.

yeah thats what ur mum said lawl

Sorry about that, but this IS the internet. Somebody had to say it.

Yaksha

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2010

N/R

01 Sep 2010 at 10:05 - 65

What's the point of DP? That's an easy enough question.

MMOs will punish you for dying. I guess they *don't* have to, but almost every MMO punishes you in some way for dying. Personally I think it's sensible - MMO's are a one way street, it's not like single player games where you can reload saves, etc. In other words, one of the themes of MMOs is being unable to undo stuff. A penalty after you die, to remind you that you've died, and to make you suffer a bit IMO is quite sensible.

There may be other more academic reasons to penalizing players for dying, but for now let's just accept it that most MMOs do this. Given that, I feel DP is sensible because it fits with the Guild Wars theme of a clear separation between gameplay zones (where you can use skills, fight, is instanced) and community zones (non-instanced, interact with other players).

Other than that, anyone who complains about DP should go play a MMO where dying = loss of gold, negative xp (or just loss of xp), or as someone else pointed out... loss of equipment. Yeah, there are MMOs that do stuff like that. DP is about as *nice* as it can get because anytime you can map travel and get out of it. You can even get items to remove it (without paying real life cash to buy them).

Angel Killuminati

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

UK

01 Sep 2010 at 10:15 - 66

Play GW2 instead when it comes out then. They won't punish you for dying no where near as severely.

Mouse at Large

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Scotland

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

01 Sep 2010 at 11:29 - 67

I suspect that the reason for some of the less than sympathetic responses is the tone of the OP's "question".

In general I tend to find a polite questions invite a polite response (trolls excepting)

Lillium

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

REIN

Me/

01 Sep 2010 at 12:08 - 68

You mean when I die I get no level loss? Not even xp loss! And I can clear it by killing more or spamming off some consumables that are everywhere?
What's more? It even clears off completely when I enter an outpost? Sign me up, baby!

... Seriously. I used to play a couple games heavily where every time you die you loose a full level, tons of gold, and sometimes your gear if you really got unlucky. One game death was even permanent if it was from PvP. If you hate DP go try any DnD based game and you will very soon hug your DP tightly.

Plenty of games out there where you loose only xp on death will allow enough xp loss to roll you back a level. I played a game once where they implemented that in an update. Players protested immediately when given the new version notes but they did it anyways. In the end they lost the majority of their player base.

Even if you just try DP against WoW, a little bit of weakness for a short time is much better than gold loss, armor damage (which comes out to more gold loss), xp loss, and an unremovable weakened state if your body was in a bad place.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

01 Sep 2010 at 16:54 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Martian-

Don't worry. GW2 is gonna have no DP. I hope that makes u happy at least ! !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

That also makes some of us sad....I hope there is some penalty for dying at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

From what I understand, you get teleported to the nearest checkpoint, and that's your penalty.

Guild Wars 2 isn't as heavily instanced as Guild Wars is and is structured very differently.
It doesn't look as though it's as much about overcoming simple challenges in the form of facing sequential enemy groups so a Death Penalty mechanic like we have now may be unnecessary.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

01 Sep 2010 at 17:11 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg

It's amazing how few responses actually dealt with the question. He's not asking how to avoid DP or what to do when he has it. He's asking what's the idea with it?

The idea is to gauge your progress and give you a failure rate. If you fail once, it's a sign that you did something wrong. In order to avoid that mistake again, your health and energy take a slight hit. It reinforces the idea to not make the same mistake again, and to change strategy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleg

Fun in a game usually involves a challenge, but a challenge you can do. He's struggling and dying which then makes something near impossible actually impossible. That doesn't seem to be a great idea.

But if you're wiping, it's not a challenge you can do. Instead of trying to ram a square peg in a round hole, the OP needs to take a step back and realize that struggling through a game means you are over-extending your ability. He/she needs help, not the gift to die without penalty.

I wasn't trying to be mean, but when I've sat for hours trying to beat a level on a game, frustrated out of my mind, and compare it to how easy DP works, it's a delight.

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

01 Sep 2010 at 19:23 - 71

DP was implemented so the sucky players in a team in PvP could be killed off more easily, eventually leading to that player unable to fight (60 dp), thus avoiding drawn out battles.

Copy paste to PvE.

Desert Rose

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

01 Sep 2010 at 20:20 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

Raptors also give me major trouble. They hit for an unbelivable amount of damage 100+

This is so frustrating fighting raptors

Are you playing Eye of the North? If so go back to the campaign you started from and finish it first; EotN is for experienced players.

Femmefatal

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2010

02 Sep 2010 at 00:00 - 73

Man anyone who doesn't have a stack of 4 leaf clovers or honeycombs really is a newb in this game. DP is nothing anymore and so easy to remove. Even the good old Peppermint Candycanes. I prefer the team moral booster items mostly nowadays though.