Ganking in Heroes Ascent - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Sirius Bsns

Banned

Join Date: May 2010

PonG

W/Mo

18 Sep 2010 at 00:08 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Ganking has absolutely nothing to do with your utopian vision of equity.

You're right!

Ganking: has to do with the idea of targeting and overpowering a higher threat for the sake of preventing victory in succession. If any particular guild or group wins HoH excessively and flaunts their titles in town enough times, they become a target for other groups. So when inside HoH, players remember the HoH messages, recognize the guild tag(s), recall those members flaunting their titles and rank-spiking, and carry out their spite accordingly.

All I did was convey a reason why ganking is good for the sake of change, keeping the outcome sporadic as opposed to redundant. Watching the same team dominate HoH for a whole entire day is not exactly encouraging, and over time, it would begin to dishearten players and drive them away because they're simply tired of facing the same team while standing little to no chance due to the OP'd and imbalanced team build(s) they're using. Meanwhile, the elitist groups [r11++] increase in fame, get their r15 from holding HoH in 1v1 all day and night every night [if 1v1 were the only existing option], and proceed to taunt, demean, and step on everyone lesser in rank with the flaunting of titles and /rank spikes... because they CAN.

So, if there's a glass of water filled to the middle, is it half full or half empty? I see it as half full because ganking allows for the possibility of overthrowing of the r11++ groups, thus enabling teams to stop the r11++ HoH-holders from overstaying their welcome and making it to r15 in a week [...an exaggeration, I know... but you get the point!].

Simath

haha you're dumb

Join Date: Jul 2005

Moscow

18 Sep 2010 at 00:47 - 42

This has been happening since '05.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

18 Sep 2010 at 01:37 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

You're right!

Ganking: has to do with the idea of targeting and overpowering a higher threat for the sake of preventing victory in succession. If any particular guild or group wins HoH excessively and flaunts their titles in town enough times, they become a target for other groups. So when inside HoH, players remember the HoH messages, recognize the guild tag(s), recall those members flaunting their titles and rank-spiking, and carry out their spite accordingly.

All I did was convey a reason why ganking is good for the sake of change, keeping the outcome sporadic as opposed to redundant. Watching the same team dominate HoH for a whole entire day is not exactly encouraging, and over time, it would begin to dishearten players and drive them away because they're simply tired of facing the same team while standing little to no chance due to the OP'd and imbalanced team build(s) they're using. Meanwhile, the elitist groups [r11++] increase in fame, get their r15 from holding HoH in 1v1 all day and night every night [if 1v1 were the only existing option], and proceed to taunt, demean, and step on everyone lesser in rank with the flaunting of titles and /rank spikes... because they CAN.

So, if there's a glass of water filled to the middle, is it half full or half empty? I see it as half full because ganking allows for the possibility of overthrowing of the r11++ groups, thus enabling teams to stop the r11++ HoH-holders from overstaying their welcome and making it to r15 in a week [...an exaggeration, I know... but you get the point!].

By your logic, successful professional sports franchises should be forced to flip coins for their wins. After all, their dominance is disheartening other players.

Oh wait, that would completely ruin the concept of competition. Why is a random factor good for the game?

Also, it's a little embarrassing that you make spite out to be some kind of positive behavior.

Sirius Bsns

Banned

Join Date: May 2010

PonG

W/Mo

18 Sep 2010 at 01:58 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

By your logic, successful professional sports franchises should be forced to flip coins for their wins. After all, their dominance is disheartening other players.

Oh wait, that would completely ruin the concept of competition. Why is a random factor good for the game?

Also, it's a little embarrassing that you make spite out to be some kind of positive behavior.

How did I make spite out of positive behavior? Is it because I identified the process by which many players react and gank? Also, the difference between real life Professional Sports and Guild Wars is that, real life, we've been perfectly balanced by our creator [whomever he/she/it may be] so that when we compete, we both have equal chances of winning by default whereas in Guild Wars, no such "perfect balance" exists. So, to say that both instances, and the rules and balance therein, are equivalent is worthy of embarrassment.

Wrath of m0o

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Boston Ma.

Is That Your Build[HaHa]

P/W

18 Sep 2010 at 04:26 - 45

/not signed

I cant remember the last time i held halls, years ago. But when i do get to halls i enjoy kicking/ganking the team that is holding it.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

18 Sep 2010 at 05:24 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

How did I make spite out of positive behavior? Is it because I identified the process by which many players react and gank? Also, the difference between real life Professional Sports and Guild Wars is that, real life, we've been perfectly balanced by our creator [whomever he/she/it may be] so that when we compete, we both have equal chances of winning by default whereas in Guild Wars, no such "perfect balance" exists. So, to say that both instances, and the rules and balance therein, are equivalent is worthy of embarrassment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Ganking: has to do with the idea of targeting and overpowering a higher threat for the sake of preventing victory in succession. If any particular guild or group wins HoH excessively and flaunts their titles in town enough times, they become a target for other groups. So when inside HoH, players remember the HoH messages, recognize the guild tag(s), recall those members flaunting their titles and rank-spiking, and carry out their spite accordingly.

Watching the same team dominate HoH for a whole entire day is not exactly encouraging, and over time, it would begin to dishearten players and drive them away because they're simply tired of facing the same team while standing little to no chance due to the OP'd and imbalanced team build(s) they're using. Meanwhile, the elitist groups [r11++] increase in fame, get their r15 from holding HoH in 1v1 all day and night every night [if 1v1 were the only existing option], and proceed to taunt, demean, and step on everyone lesser in rank with the flaunting of titles and /rank spikes... because they CAN.

Read your own post. The implication that ganking is some kind of morally justifiable blow against the man for the undertrodden is impossible to miss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Also, the difference between real life Professional Sports and Guild Wars is that, real life, we've been perfectly balanced by our creator [whomever he/she/it may be] so that when we compete, we both have equal chances of winning by default whereas in Guild Wars, no such "perfect balance" exists.

You know why it doesn't exist in HA?

Because the third team in a two team match can determine the outcome unilaterally.

Darth The Xx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Sen'jin Village

The Infamous Cake Bandits [cake]

Mo/W

18 Sep 2010 at 06:43 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

One of the sollutions would be to ban gankers for match manipulation. It's so obvious when third team caps altar and 2nd team goes full gank on team who just lost altar.
I mean you either don't deserve to be here because you're terrible and ruining the game or you just want the manipulate the match which is a valid reason for a ban.

Darth_The_Xx: you think holding team likes when they have 10-15 consec and then they get ganked?? It's just killing the game and making lots of ppl quit.

Those sort of stuff happen all the time I can tell you I have more than plenty of experience with getting ganked.
So ban the gankers (match manipulators) ty!

Yeah, getting ganked sucks, so do a lot of things, just be cause it sucks doesnt mean it should be in the game. You think the teams who keep constantly getting rolled by a 10-15 holding team like it?

Elnino

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

In a house

Proof Of A Nets Laziness[HB]

A/W

18 Sep 2010 at 07:46 - 48

I haven't done HA in ages so I'm not sure if what I say is completely correct.

I don't think that ganking in HoH is that bad. To me, it seems like a viable option and it tests how well the ganked team can cope (assuming I still understand how to HA). In HoH, the blue team starts with an advantage over the other two teams. So isn't it natural for the two disadvantaged teams to aim to bring the advantaged team back down to their level so that it seems like a fairer fight and to do that, they gank? Again, I may not be fully informed on the situation but I'm just speaking from what I remember.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

18 Sep 2010 at 07:47 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth The Xx

Yeah, getting ganked sucks, so do a lot of things, just be cause it sucks doesnt mean it should be in the game. You think the teams who keep constantly getting rolled by a 10-15 holding team like it?

Then , why do people insist on forming " terrible randomways" at dead hour, while they SEE there are 2 10-15 balanced forming? What's the point of playing 2 hours while they know the only thing they can do is win uw against the only other randomway and feed the balanced ( i.e make them have full run or make holding team free wins ) ?

@ Elnino : i understand your point , but problem is there are 3 teams , thus if one team decides to gank blue team for example , the 3rd one will obviously attack blue aswell. Due to joke map objectives , both teams just have to either kill ghost or kill all team ( 16v8 isn't really hard..)

Playing Is Srs Bsns

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2010

Finland-land

Rage Like A Panda [?????????]

18 Sep 2010 at 08:15 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon

Remove HA, it is a grinders heaven anymore and full of broken Meta shitters...that will fix the gankers.

They would shit GvG meta.
Owait....

Fluffy Kittens

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2009

18 Sep 2010 at 09:44 - 51

First I want to make clear that low ranked people have no idea how to play HA, everyone under r11 sux theres no exception. Of course having high rank doesn't mean that you're good but I'm sure that at least 50% of high rank players are good (not counting those who got r9-r12 in 1 month of bbwaying like eB guild).
So problem is those low ranked people who come in HoH and are way too unskilled and dumb to win just gank because they think they're cool. ("first time in hoh yay I'll gank and be cool everyone will see my coolness on observe").
Anyway, all I want is a response: can ganking get you banned? (if on koth full team is attacking only the team whos not holding or on relics they're not running but just blocking 1 team with 8 people).... that should be bannable since it's obvious match manipulation.

Elnino

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

In a house

Proof Of A Nets Laziness[HB]

A/W

18 Sep 2010 at 10:11 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Anyway, all I want is a response: can ganking get you banned? (if on koth full team is attacking only the team whos not holding or on relics they're not running but just blocking 1 team with 8 people).... that should be bannable since it's obvious match manipulation.

I'm pretty sure that it isn't against the rules and I wouldn't say it's match manipulation since the team that gets ganked can easily just wipe the gankers (you know since the gankers are all bad) and continue on their merry way.

Fluffy Kittens

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2009

18 Sep 2010 at 12:38 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

I'm pretty sure that it isn't against the rules and I wouldn't say it's match manipulation since the team that gets ganked can easily just wipe the gankers (you know since the gankers are all bad) and continue on their merry way.

you can't really do that since the 2nd team will go on you aswell when they see you're gettin ganked so you can't do that what you said.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

18 Sep 2010 at 12:42 - 54

Is it just me, or is the term "match manipulation" getting thrown around whenever one person or one group of people in PvP does anything that someone sees as unfair?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Darth_The_Xx: you think holding team likes when they have 10-15 consec and then they get ganked?? It's just killing the game and making lots of ppl quit.

I really can not begin to understand this argument. Do you think anyone likes it when they get ganked? Wouldn't you think that a team that can hold halls for 10-15 consecutives has enough skill that they can fight off the occasional gank? Is it a good idea to set HA to 1v1 so that a last-ditch effort for dropping a team from their throne is no longer an option, and we end up with teams potentially holding halls for half a day at a time?

No, I'm quite okay with there being three teams in the HoH. Ganking is part of the format. It has been ever since its inception. It's been doable on every map with more than one team, and it's not like there's only been one or two of those. The only reason there aren't more of them now is because there aren't enough teams entering to fill all of those maps.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

18 Sep 2010 at 17:32 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I really can not begin to understand this argument. Do you think anyone likes it when they get ganked? Wouldn't you think that a team that can hold halls for 10-15 consecutives has enough skill that they can fight off the occasional gank? Is it a good idea to set HA to 1v1 so that a last-ditch effort for dropping a team from their throne is no longer an option, and we end up with teams potentially holding halls for half a day at a time?

This makes no sense , i am sorry but it looks like too many posters on this thread don't even play HA nowadays , thus don't understand the real problem ...You can't get back from a gank ( except if you have the 5% chance that anti tactic works on one map only..) since it's 16v8 anyway.

Aswell , i said i don't care of in game ganks ( i.e result of tactic , team not resigning , team resigning after x capped , tactic which failed..) but people who gank since the begin of the map . And , for teams who just won hall ( means 1 hold only ) , you think it's fair aswell ...? This should in no way happen and be bannable like rezz anna said.

Sirius Bsns

Banned

Join Date: May 2010

PonG

W/Mo

18 Sep 2010 at 18:42 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

This makes no sense , i am sorry but it looks like too many posters on this thread don't even play HA nowadays , thus don't understand the real problem ...You can't get back from a gank ( except if you have the 5% chance that anti tactic works on one map only..) since it's 16v8 anyway.

Aswell , i said i don't care of in game ganks ( i.e result of tactic , team not resigning , team resigning after x capped , tactic which failed..) but people who gank since the begin of the map . And , for teams who just won hall ( means 1 hold only ) , you think it's fair aswell ...? This should in no way happen and be bannable like rezz anna said.

It's better to have ganking remain possible than to watch a team in observer mode hold halls for:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

half a day at a time?

The high-ranked elitist teams don't need any more fame anyway. They're r11 and arrogant, and pride deserves to be humbled.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

18 Sep 2010 at 21:06 - 57

People need to stop generalizing the different communities in HA (low-high ranked, experienced-nonexperienced).

Rezz Anna needs to start to understand that not every low ranked person is inexperienced, or bad at this game, and thus ganks in HoH.

And the other people need to understand Rezz Anna does not represent the "high-end" HA scene. Rezz Anna is someone who'se intire fame bar is tied to a single class (assassin), and despite it comming off as a flame I don't mean it that way, doesn't know how HA or PvP in general work.

Ganking in HA is in no way justifiable. If you believe it is, you should litteraly refrain yourself from this thread, the PvP forum, and PvP all-together. A gank is about the most unsportsmanship behaviour a team can bring forward, and reduces a competitive game to a social engeering contest, where whoever has the most friends has the most wins.

And given the nature of HA and it's community, this usually means that german lamewayers will get the most wins, concidering that's the majority of today's HA scene.

As for the actual ganking, is it match manipulation or not? I don't know, but all I know is that Anet banned people for "griefing" before, for example in RA or even in HA with the old shadowformway. I friend of mine got a 3-day ban for "unsportsmanship behaviour in PvP".

I don't really care that much anymore, because HA has become a shitfest where even the forums have been overrun by the people who were concidered terrible 2-3 years ago. But ganking definatly contributed to alot of good people leaving the format. That and the fact that the HoH maps are absolute shit are actually the only 2 reason people left HA by masses.

Sirius Bsns

Banned

Join Date: May 2010

PonG

W/Mo

18 Sep 2010 at 22:02 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

People need to stop generalizing the different communities in HA (low-high ranked, experienced-nonexperienced).

Rezz Anna needs to start to understand that not every low ranked person is inexperienced, or bad at this game, and thus ganks in HoH.

And the other people need to understand Rezz Anna does not represent the "high-end" HA scene. Rezz Anna is someone who'se intire fame bar is tied to a single class (assassin), and despite it comming off as a flame I don't mean it that way, doesn't know how HA or PvP in general work.

Ganking in HA is in no way justifiable. If you believe it is, you should litteraly refrain yourself from this thread, the PvP forum, and PvP all-together. A gank is about the most unsportsmanship behaviour a team can bring forward, and reduces a competitive game to a social engeering contest, where whoever has the most friends has the most wins.

And given the nature of HA and it's community, this usually means that german lamewayers will get the most wins, concidering that's the majority of today's HA scene.

As for the actual ganking, is it match manipulation or not? I don't know, but all I know is that Anet banned people for "griefing" before, for example in RA or even in HA with the old shadowformway. I friend of mine got a 3-day ban for "unsportsmanship behaviour in PvP".

I don't really care that much anymore, because HA has become a shitfest where even the forums have been overrun by the people who were concidered terrible 2-3 years ago. But ganking definatly contributed to alot of good people leaving the format. That and the fact that the HoH maps are absolute shit are actually the only 2 reason people left HA by masses.

All I'm saying is that "ganking" provides the means for putting high-ranked players in their place. It's part of a natural balance, if you will. For example, if a country powerful enough to rule the world tried taking control of it, other countries would strike allegiance and combine forces to eliminate the higher threat. In Guild Wars, "ganking" is the parallel manifestation of it. Without ganking, the higher ranked teams would always win, raking in fame until they've capped at r15, and then reflecting their triumph, gloating in the most sadistic and demeaning manner possibly imaginable[Anna's posts are a clear demonstration of this].

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

19 Sep 2010 at 00:57 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

All I'm saying is that "ganking" provides the means for putting high-ranked players in their place. It's part of a natural balance, if you will. For example, if a country powerful enough to rule the world tried taking control of it, other countries would strike allegiance and combine forces to eliminate the higher threat. In Guild Wars, "ganking" is the parallel manifestation of it. Without ganking, the higher ranked teams would always win, raking in fame until they've capped at r15, and then reflecting their triumph, gloating in the most sadistic and demeaning manner possibly imaginable[Anna's posts are a clear demonstration of this].

Your analogy once again doesn't make sense. You're trying to justify the gank by stating lower-rank players have a direct severe negative consequence when higher-ranked people win. which is not the case.

If you can't see the simply truth of: "The best team deserves to win", you shouldn't be playing PvP in the first place. The fact that "higher ranked teams" always would win without ganks is the very base of competitive PvP.

Your mindset is what ruined Guild Wars, because it's the same mindset Anet took on after Factions release. That mindset being that terrible players should be able to beat good players.

There's 2 kinds of fair:

The first one is that everyone wins equally, regardless of their skill. This is fair on a very basic level, because everyone gets to win. Yet, at the same time, the better people don't get any benefit from being better than the worst people, and thus this system will only result in the better people leaving or stop trying. (Aka, shitwaying themselves)

The second one is what Guild Wars is/should have been, being that your win/loss ratio increases exponantially with your skills as a player. Despite the fact that not everyone gets to win, the system still is fair, because if you deserve to win, you'll win. The fact that bad people don't ever win only means one thing: these people need to improve at the game.

Ganking is in no way justified by the fact that bad players loose to good players. Bad players should loose to good players. This is the basic essence of EVERY game.

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

19 Sep 2010 at 02:49 - 60

I don't mind ganking/getting ganked tbh. back when i found it worthwhile to bother doing tombs, me and my friends only ever ganked douchebags. and generally, not talking shit and having a decent attitude makes you less of a target for it.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

19 Sep 2010 at 12:44 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

I don't mind ganking/getting ganked tbh. back when i found it worthwhile to bother doing tombs, me and my friends only ever ganked douchebags. and generally, not talking shit and having a decent attitude makes you less of a target for it.

Not right , you can be ganked because you're euro , because you're playing balanced/bbway ( twice consec ganked on court (2 fame win yay) right now ) , because that team has no infuse/mh/etc.. thus they random gank , etc...

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

19 Sep 2010 at 18:36 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

Not right

Bullshit. I said being a douchebag makes you less of a targetfor ganking, because not being a douchebag is one less reason for someone to want to gank you, not that douchebaggery is the only reason why you would get ganked.

diabiosx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fast As A Turtle[WoOm]

W/E

20 Sep 2010 at 00:10 - 63

GANK happens, theres no reason behind it. You can be the nicest person in GW, play whatever build and still get ganked.

And to whoever that said even the worst players deserve to win HoH is like saying, even an avg joe that sits in his ass the whole day should be able play for a professional football team. Or that even a dumbass should be able to be a doctor. In USA we called that communism and we dont like commies.

I agree with the OP, no more 3way= Peace out CHANNELING new HA meta here we come!!! and ooo yeah fairness that some of u speak of......

And yes every1 ganks even the people complaining about it in this thread.

Grj

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

20 Sep 2010 at 12:08 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

GANK happens, theres no reason behind it. You can be the nicest person in GW, play whatever build and still get ganked.

And to whoever that said even the worst players deserve to win HoH is like saying, even an avg joe that sits in his ass the whole day should be able play for a professional football team. Or that even a dumbass should be able to be a doctor. In USA we called that communism and we dont like commies.

I agree with the OP, no more 3way= Peace out CHANNELING new HA meta here we come!!! and ooo yeah fairness that some of u speak of......

And yes every1 ganks even the people complaining about it in this thread.

Yet many competitive players post condictory stuff wanting the rules changed in their favour (which is why this waahh stop ganking thread was started):

If the people complaining about ganking don't like it, why not GvG? Or is trying to be a HA Superstar in a dead arena, being a fame bitch worth it?

diabiosx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fast As A Turtle[WoOm]

W/E

20 Sep 2010 at 15:12 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grj

Yet many competitive players post condictory stuff wanting the rules changed in their favour (which is why this waahh stop ganking thread was started):

If the people complaining about ganking don't like it, why not GvG? Or is trying to be a HA Superstar in a dead arena, being a fame bitch worth it?

Players who are not experienced shouldn't win halls because of gank, skills(ability to execute, knowledge of arena) should decide that. If the same group of players keep holding because of their skills, then people who want to kick them out out of HoH should become better in this game instead of resorting to gank to even have a chance to hold. If the final round of the MAT is a 3ways match, I am sure winning a gold cape will mean nothing and whats left of the competitiveness of GvG will be down the shithole. And I'm pretty sure GvG is also a dead arena, and a competely different arena with a completely different playstyle when compared to HA. Thats like arguing to people that whine about TA, "TA is dead why not go codex or AB." I am stressing a concern for HA not because i need more fame, I just want the arena to be a skills game, not a random gank game where you lose all your winning streaks in any 3ways match.

axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Pwn Appetit [NJoy]

W/

20 Sep 2010 at 17:55 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Also, the difference between real life Professional Sports and Guild Wars is that, real life, we've been perfectly balanced by our creator [whomever he/she/it may be] so that when we compete, we both have equal chances of winning by default whereas in Guild Wars, no such "perfect balance" exists. So, to say that both instances, and the rules and balance therein, are equivalent is worthy of embarrassment.

How are "perfectly balanced human beings", playing a game with all the same tools at our disposal any different, after all playing GW is actually Real life, as in human beings actually manipulating the video game, your logic actually states that we all have equal chances to win at GW, where in fact in real life where people are actually PHYSICALLY different and thus some are better suited for physical competition that they have an advantage. So here your example is just flawed from the beginning.

Not at a video game where you can have a working brain and working fingers and be able to compete at whatever level you are willing to work towards. Your computer and internet isnt even a determining factor because some people have some antique comps running GW with bad ping and they manage just fine.

---------

Earlier you suggest that watching a team hold for half the day is redundant and disheartening, but I found this quite the opposite when I started playing the game. When MATH was winning all the time, it proved to me that players that learn the format can consistently win, not "randomly" win which is what you seem to like, so that a low ranked team can win HoH, not because they are bad or good, but because they have a 1/3 chance to win. While I would agree if the map conditions were fair, ideally each team would be equally skilled and therefore have a 1/3, but this is not true.

The skilled team should gain an edge and win, but the problem with Ganks is beyond the fairness, and that is because currently you can have situations where your team simply CANNOT WIN, and thus for kicks can determine the result of the match.

I dont know how you cannot see that this is even lamer than a team holding for half a day. There is no benefit to the low ranked team, because in a gank situation if a low rank team wins, they actually didnt learn HOW to win, they got a little help from a gank, but now they dont get the benefit of actually playing the match which will in time give them the experience needed to figure out how actually to win.

Ganks exist in this format because of the map mechanics, its just that simple. This is the reason for the thread, its a suggestion to fix the map mechanic to prevent this, and thus increase the quality of HA. A fair map would be good for the format, not a 1v1 where blue is auto-win 75% of the time.

Sirius Bsns

Banned

Join Date: May 2010

PonG

W/Mo

20 Sep 2010 at 19:06 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe

Too long; read the above post.

Lag makes things unbalanced. Cheating makes things unbalanced. Teams using ventrilo makes things unbalanced [though this option is perfectly legal to do].

You never seen Michael Jordan lag and miss a dunk, or throw on a jet pack to reach the rim. He and his teammates didn't establish a secret communication using ear pieces and talk strategy amongst each other [not saying it's bad to use ventrilo for MMOs, so there's no need to chew my ass off for this statement].

Now do you now see why I said that real life balance is not equal to gaming balance?

About ganking and elimination: ranked teams don't always eliminated in 16v8. Numerous times I've seen them pull through and win it. So, if they can win even a 16v8, can you imagine what it would be like if it were only 8v8? Also, every other map is 8v8, so why render everything an 8v8 and risk letting high-ranked arrogant teams hold halls for days at a time? Why enable them to reach r15 so quickly and easily? I'd rather that they get a taste of humility from time to time than watch them dominate using the most OP'd team builds and abusive body-blocking tactics, then see them gloat and talk $h!t to everybody with their /rank spikes and elitist remarks. I'd also rather see new teams in observer mode each and every time than to see the same exact high-ranked team dominate for forever and carry out their sadistic pleasures.

axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Pwn Appetit [NJoy]

W/

20 Sep 2010 at 20:06 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Lag makes things unbalanced. Cheating makes things unbalanced. Teams using ventrilo makes things unbalanced [though this option is perfectly legal to do].

You never seen Michael Jordan lag and miss a dunk, or throw on a jet pack to reach the rim. He and his teammates didn't establish a secret communication using ear pieces and talk strategy amongst each other [not saying it's bad to use ventrilo for MMOs, so there's no need to chew my ass off for this statement].

Now do you now see why I said that real life balance is not equal to gaming balance?

About ganking and elimination: ranked teams don't always eliminated in 16v8. Numerous times I've seen them pull through and win it. So, if they can win even a 16v8, can you imagine what it would be like if it were only 8v8? Also, every other map is 8v8, so why render everything an 8v8 and risk letting high-ranked arrogant teams hold halls for days at a time? Why enable them to reach r15 so quickly and easily? I'd rather that they get a taste of humility from time to time than watch them dominate using the most OP'd team builds and abusive body-blocking tactics, then see them gloat and talk $h!t to everybody with their /rank spikes and elitist remarks. I'd also rather see new teams in observer mode each and every time than to see the same exact high-ranked team dominate for forever and carry out their sadistic pleasures.

I already said in my post, computer equipment and internet dont play a large enough factor, there are some of the best farmers in the game using terrible stuff and still winning. You dont need Ventrillo, lag happens to every team.

Nobody is arguing with you that 1v1 sucks and is not fair. You dont have to keep making this statement.

Nobody in this thread is telling people to gank or not, that is up to the players to decide, the point of the thread is to point out that the HoH map is flawed. 1v1 is flawed, 3-way is flawed. And again if you actually play the matches out maybe the less experienced can learn something and win the next time, and be better equipped to hold also. Those teams that are holding on long streaks did just that.

You are wanting change yourself as you said, so are the players posting here. I never heard anyone say make it easier to hold, only make it skill based.

superraptors

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2008

W/

21 Sep 2010 at 01:53 - 69

80% of "ganks"(not actually a gank) are the result of the hoh format while the 20% just do it out of spite and jealousy or for the lols(sad).

Like axe is saying the outcome of matches is almost always decided by the 3rd team in mainly koth but also in cap points matches, if they resign they favour the current team holding, if they play on and knock off the current holding team with very little time to go then the other team which caps wins.

If its back to old school 05 06 holding it totally removes the issue that the 3rd team out of contention deciding games, unless they actually do a full gank where they just dont want you to win.

Even in 1v1 it is more fair because it gives the non holding team enough time to pressure out the holding team and capping last. In alot of situations 1v1 koth u are always so close to knocking off the team but time catches up with you, because any decent team 1v1 will be able to play defensively enough to get the 8 points and barely hold off at times.

Also if you add back dp like old days, teams wont be dieing b4 the minute to come back full energy. This is single handly the reason why the holding team in 1v1 never loses cause their monks come back with full energy or if u wait to kill them like alot of the times people try to do you have lost alot of precious dps and pressure which is essential if the non holding team wants to win.

Fluffy Kittens

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2009

21 Sep 2010 at 06:37 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

About ganking and elimination: ranked teams don't always eliminated in 16v8. Numerous times I've seen them pull through and win it. So, if they can win even a 16v8, can you imagine what it would be like if it were only 8v8? Also, every other map is 8v8, so why render everything an 8v8 and risk letting high-ranked arrogant teams hold halls for days at a time? Why enable them to reach r15 so quickly and easily? I'd rather that they get a taste of humility from time to time than watch them dominate using the most OP'd team builds and abusive body-blocking tactics, then see them gloat and talk $h!t to everybody with their /rank spikes and elitist remarks. I'd also rather see new teams in observer mode each and every time than to see the same exact high-ranked team dominate for forever and carry out their sadistic pleasures.

Sir, you're obviously jealous at us high ranked people. High ranked people deserve to win because they're better and smarter than low ranked people and yes they should hold all day and get quick but they cant because there is always some jealous low rank like you sir who just ganks because he is too bad to win. If Anet would ban that kind of attitude HA would be a little better place and more enjoyable. I don't know about the rest about the rest of people posting in this topic but I really got tired of gettin ganked by r7 teams over and over again...
SOLUTION = Anet start banning!!

Edit: Shayne Hawke - Posts like this will get this thread closed fast. You have all been warned.

Missing HB

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Anna

A/

21 Sep 2010 at 09:03 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

80% of "ganks"(not actually a gank) are the result of the hoh format while the 20% just do it out of spite and jealousy or for the lols(sad).

Like axe is saying the outcome of matches is almost always decided by the 3rd team in mainly koth but also in cap points matches, if they resign they favour the current team holding, if they play on and knock off the current holding team with very little time to go then the other team which caps wins.

That's the problem , because if you just think , the only fair format would be 3 team relic ( not considering gank) , and that format is maybe the most boring one ( almost 90% of time relying on pure luck on last secs ).Too many situations that you need to avoid like :
3 team koth : it's not nice to have more than 4 pts as blue from 1st cap , because team who caps right after can easily get 3 pts and make 3rd team resign ..
3 team cap pts : if all scores are the same at 1.00 , team who is currently holding center loses for sure
etc....
Btw , also i think people who're thinking it's in order that people cannot hold for hours should adapt the problem on Courtyard map ( ganking happens there a lot , maybe more than in hall ..)

diabiosx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fast As A Turtle[WoOm]

W/E

21 Sep 2010 at 15:47 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

That's the problem , because if you just think , the only fair format would be 3 team relic ( not considering gank) , and that format is maybe the most boring one ( almost 90% of time relying on pure luck on last secs ).Too many situations that you need to avoid like :
3 team koth : it's not nice to have more than 4 pts as blue from 1st cap , because team who caps right after can easily get 3 pts and make 3rd team resign ..
3 team cap pts : if all scores are the same at 1.00 , team who is currently holding center loses for sure
etc....
Btw , also i think people who're thinking it's in order that people cannot hold for hours should adapt the problem on Courtyard map ( ganking happens there a lot , maybe more than in hall ..)

your point on koth is wrong. You can get 15points total there. So if blue gets 4 and say red gets 3, yellow can still get 7. And what if the 3rd team that cant win but wants blue to hold?? they will gank too. Resign doesnt always happen.

Also I think some of the guys here didnt bother reading the entire thread but anyways the OP guy suggested 1v1 HoH where there is no blue team only red vs yellow

Champen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Denmark

Warlords Of The Underworld [WoTU]

E/P

21 Sep 2010 at 16:13 - 73

Fierce you know what he mean, if u get 7 points as blue and then the ghost dies and another team caps. The third team will often resign and u will lose =)

and it would be way too easy to hold if hoh was 1v1 even though it would be red vs yellow. So many bad teams in HA, which means a good team would just hold forever.

axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Pwn Appetit [NJoy]

W/

21 Sep 2010 at 18:37 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Champen

Fierce you know what he mean, if u get 7 points as blue and then the ghost dies and another team caps. The third team will often resign and u will lose =)

and it would be way too easy to hold if hoh was 1v1 even though it would be red vs yellow. So many bad teams in HA, which means a good team would just hold forever.

It doesnt even have to be Bad vs Good, its Build Wars at HoH map, Balance has a huge advantage in 1v1 and more builds would surface to take advantage of 1v1.

the 3-way map has always been a good method, but providing that there is an available option for all teams to win till the last second of the match. Certainly some builds are better equiped for HoH map, and most of the teams that plan on holding for extended periods plan accordingly.

There still is a flaw in the current system, more so than how it used to be.

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

21 Sep 2010 at 19:30 - 75

just make it fair(old koth) or any other solution if anyone can think of one

diabiosx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fast As A Turtle[WoOm]

W/E

21 Sep 2010 at 19:57 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

just make it fair(old koth) or any other solution if anyone can think of one

pretty sure old holding koth only will lead to degenerate super defensive builds again

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

21 Sep 2010 at 20:26 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

pretty sure old holding koth only will lead to degenerate super defensive builds again

Yeah, defensive builds are so terrible, dumb and bad.

diabiosx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fast As A Turtle[WoOm]

W/E

21 Sep 2010 at 20:47 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Yeah, defensive builds are so terrible, dumb and bad.

lol i just dont wanna face them but i wanna run them, and the current set up allows me to do so

Del

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2009

In a van, down by the river.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if I know, ask Lynette.

R/

21 Sep 2010 at 22:24 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

lol i just dont wanna play in a terrible meta, but i want to play a terrible build

Fixed that for you.

Sirius Bsns

Banned

Join Date: May 2010

PonG

W/Mo

22 Sep 2010 at 02:45 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

pretty sure old holding koth only will lead to degenerate super defensive builds again

That's another good reason why 1v1v1 needs to remain, on top of everything I've mentioned on this thread thus far. The point of King of the Hill is to involve more than just the 1v1 that every other map in HA has by default.