I have and i'm betting most of you all have also memorized all the gw skills, their skill associations and the best combinations they work in. If I say a skill name, even a random one not used often like "drunken blow" probably all of you will know what it is or get the general sense of what it does and its appropriate usages.
Now there are 1319 skills that are in the game, more if you count monster skills. We've more or less mastered this knowledge... to put it into perspective, a literate chinese person knows 3-4000 characters. If you think about it, memorizing a skill is like memorizing a character's definition, its usages, its applications and its role in the general scheme of things. If we see an incomplete bar, we know what's missing, just like if we were looking at an incomplete sentence. We can even recall the past history of a skill, as one would know the etymology of words. Holy shit. If guild wars was a language, we would all be either fluent or at least semi literate. Is anyone else surprised at how much they unintentionally learned?
A scary realization
awry
Cuilan
Reminds me that skill updates cater to those who know so much like you say, new players, and those who don't actively try to learn all that information.
awry
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Originally Posted by Cuilan
Reminds me that skill updates cater to those who know so much like you say, new players, and those who don't actively try to learn all that information.
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Sirius Bsns
Meh, it's not that big of a deal. It's kind of like playing Chess for so long that you know, from start to finish, what every move will ever lead to. If you look at it in terms of what you've just filled your head with though... [garbage], then yea... I feel sorry for all of us veteran players! >.<
LifeInfusion
Immersion helps.
That's why language programs have the "instant immersion" thing and people go to countries in which the language they are learning is spoken.
If you do something for a couple hundred (or thousand) hours, then I am pretty sure you will have some grasp of it.
That's why language programs have the "instant immersion" thing and people go to countries in which the language they are learning is spoken.
If you do something for a couple hundred (or thousand) hours, then I am pretty sure you will have some grasp of it.
Ka Tet
So what you're saying is if Spanish speakers gave old white men tiny pets or shiny gold emotes for learning Spanish, then no one would care about immigration. My friend, I think you should visit the Middle East.
Tar Ionwe
I've never really though about it before but I completely agree with the OP. For most people that have played for quite some time need only to look at a bar and see how everything is going to work. And then when say you get a pug and they ping something old everyone remembers the time when the skills was used. Quite interesting.
Wish Swiftdeath
Kinda scary tbh the amount of time i've spent (and know) about this game. If only i'd spent that time on maths - then I wouldn't need any help on my calc 2 homework... :P
Aba
Quote:
| Immersion helps. |
be around something so much, you start to pick it up without trying or wanting
Shayne Hawke
I think I used to be like that, and now that I don't play GW so much, I find myself losing hold of that knowledge.
Zodiac Meteor
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Originally Posted by Aba
Bingo...
be around something so much, you start to pick it up without trying or wanting |
awry
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Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor
Exactly, it's not exactly difficult either. Learning another language =/= playing the game. Skills do exactly what they say and pictures/animations help know what the skill is.
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Zodiac Meteor
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Originally Posted by awry
True, but there are similarities. Oh and for argument's sake, flashcards
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Pleikki
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I think I used to be like that, and now that I don't play GW so much, I find myself losing hold of that knowledge.
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Cuilan
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Originally Posted by awry
Not quite sure what you're getting at, but i'm guessing you're saying there's a steep learning curve and the casual player can't catch up? I don't believe so, just like with a language, we learn our comfort skills and then move onto skills that do more specific things.
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Chrisworld
Quote:
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Originally Posted by awry
I have and i'm betting most of you all have also memorized all the gw skills, their skill associations and the best combinations they work in. If I say a skill name, even a random one not used often like "drunken blow" probably all of you will know what it is or get the general sense of what it does and its appropriate usages.
Now there are 1319 skills that are in the game, more if you count monster skills. We've more or less mastered this knowledge... to put it into perspective, a literate chinese person knows 3-4000 characters. If you think about it, memorizing a skill is like memorizing a character's definition, its usages, its applications and its role in the general scheme of things. If we see an incomplete bar, we know what's missing, just like if we were looking at an incomplete sentence. We can even recall the past history of a skill, as one would know the etymology of words. Holy shit. If guild wars was a language, we would all be either fluent or at least semi literate. Is anyone else surprised at how much they unintentionally learned? |
Now.. if my brain could only absorb anything I try to learn or read as well as Guild Wars skills, I'd be on a roll here but .. meh.
Zodiac Meteor
Here is something scarier, when there was only 151 Pokemon I knew every Pokemon's level that they evolve, level that they learn a skill and worst of all every Pokemon's number.
I was 10 years old
I was 10 years old
Mesmers Are Bad
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Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor
Here is something scarier, when there was only 151 Pokemon I knew every Pokemon's level that they evolve, level that they learn a skill and worst of all every Pokemon's number.
I was 10 years old |
stanzhao
learning gw skills is not like learning to read at all.
first, people are forced to learn to read in schools. I am not entirely sure you can unintentionally learn something. You can memorize what something should look like. but to work out the formula of 'why' is a different thing all together.
if someone gave you six coloured blocks, gave you 30 seconds to memorize what order they were in, you could probably place them back in order. Then if someone said there was a reason, or a pattern as to why they were in that order, you wouldnt be instantly able to tell them just from looking at them.
you would need to sit down and think about it. Same with GW skills. when someone hands you a cookie cutter build, maybe you have seen it before, and if you hit skill x after skill y, it works, but you dont always know why.
good example of this is the 330 ele, ps and sfa, get them in the wrong order and it doesnt work. you dont need to know why, just dont do it again.
i am not sure where i am going with this...
first, people are forced to learn to read in schools. I am not entirely sure you can unintentionally learn something. You can memorize what something should look like. but to work out the formula of 'why' is a different thing all together.
if someone gave you six coloured blocks, gave you 30 seconds to memorize what order they were in, you could probably place them back in order. Then if someone said there was a reason, or a pattern as to why they were in that order, you wouldnt be instantly able to tell them just from looking at them.
you would need to sit down and think about it. Same with GW skills. when someone hands you a cookie cutter build, maybe you have seen it before, and if you hit skill x after skill y, it works, but you dont always know why.
good example of this is the 330 ele, ps and sfa, get them in the wrong order and it doesnt work. you dont need to know why, just dont do it again.
i am not sure where i am going with this...
fowlero
I never thought of it as a language, but that's an interesting idea.
I've more thought, if i knew anything as well as gw during school that'd have made things one hell of a lot easier.
I've more thought, if i knew anything as well as gw during school that'd have made things one hell of a lot easier.
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by stanzhao
learning gw skills is not like learning to read at all.
first, people are forced to learn to read in schools. I am not entirely sure you can unintentionally learn something. You can memorize what something should look like. but to work out the formula of 'why' is a different thing all together. i am not sure where i am going with this... |
In some ways it's like a language... Sounds absurd though.
ruk1a
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Originally Posted by Aba
Bingo...
be around something so much, you start to pick it up without trying or wanting |
Carboplatin
Had this convo with a friend yesterday, who's gf is just getting into GW.
You mention a mob/area, we know exactly what builds to bring. We know what skill you need and how to counter each one. It quite scary actually, just common sense for alot of us.
Yet, for a newcomer, just throwing them a build gets them confused and all the mesmer icons look the same to them.
When GW2 comes around, same skill name different function. That is gonna be a pita to get used to.
When Gash really isn't gash, I am gonna be looking for that DW. Wait, what DW? that doesn't exist either.
You mention a mob/area, we know exactly what builds to bring. We know what skill you need and how to counter each one. It quite scary actually, just common sense for alot of us.
Yet, for a newcomer, just throwing them a build gets them confused and all the mesmer icons look the same to them.
When GW2 comes around, same skill name different function. That is gonna be a pita to get used to.
When Gash really isn't gash, I am gonna be looking for that DW. Wait, what DW? that doesn't exist either.
Jk Arrow
I thought about this the other day while talking with some guildies. Upwards of several thousand hours almost equated to another full time job.
If I would have put some of that time towards my golf game, I wouldn't still be a 15 handicap.
If I would have put some of that time towards my golf game, I wouldn't still be a 15 handicap.
Silmar Alech
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Originally Posted by stanzhao
I am not entirely sure you can unintentionally learn something.
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Ten years ago, a group of 4 US people were given a desk near my desk in our german office. They had a temporary problem-solving job, so they talked endlessly with each other with an accent I never heard before and which I didn't understand a word from. I had no business with them, so I tried to ignore them.
In the first week, I didn't understand one word.
In the second week, I understood a few simple words.
In the third week, I understood some phrases and simple sentences.
Beginning with the fourth week, I completely understood what they were talking about.
And I really didn't try to listen to them or talk with them. I only sat nearby.
Angel Killuminati
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Originally Posted by awry
If we see an incomplete bar, we know what's missing, just like if we were looking at an incomplete sentence.
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In the real world, the English language, like any other language is free flowing, allowing for different approaches to complete the same problem - written sentence structure and speech.
We don't all have to use the words in a strict order - obviously there are exceptions, such as "I toilet need go to". That makes no sense, but we don't judge people, or foreigners if they haven't understood fully, or grasped the language to a fluent extent. Understanding a multitude words and how they are arranged can get you by in life, but you don't need to be fluent in order to be able to 'get by.'
On Guildwars though it differs. People look at players skill bars and instantly state it's wrong because of meta changes and latest build trends. The average PvE group or PvP group will crucify someone for the wrong skill, even if it is in someway appropriate, or the player has learnt how to use that successfully. Because it looks odd or out of place, the player is alienated.
Language in that respect differs an incredible amount. As a general statement, you wouldn't have a go at someone for not using the correct words and grammar in real life. It would be stupid to think you could, correcting everyone you meet (you might think it in your head, but you wouldn't outright tell someone their speech is wrong - something as a group leader in GW you might do, in relation to their skill setup). Not editing every spoken mistake in relation to language allows for human error and mistakes.
Understanding what skills go with what skills and in what order is a decent comparison of human speech and fluency with a language. But overall, Guildwars players looking at other players skill bars and slating one skill, is so far away from human speech and language, leaving that comparison incorrect. There is no alternative in Guildwars, (you have to follow the latenst trends and what's popular - otherwise you're kicked), where as many people don't use correct grammar and punctuation in language and get by, without question, mostly.
Benderama
weird but i kinda agree with the OP, without thinking while using a spirit spammer (like reading a children's book) you'll instantly go pain>bloodsong>sos>painful bond in some order.
Wyndy
Wanna hear something really scary? I was waiting in line for the GW2 demo and it looked like the necro skill Feast of Corruption had the icon from Unholy Feast. heh.
awry
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Angel Killuminati
Yes we can easily identify an incomplete bar, like a sentence, but...
In the real world, the English language, like any other language is free flowing, allowing for different approaches to complete the same problem - written sentence structure and speech. We don't all have to use the words in a strict order - obviously there are exceptions, such as "I toilet need go to". That makes no sense, but we don't judge people, or foreigners if they haven't understood fully, or grasped the language to a fluent extent. Understanding a multitude words and how they are arranged can get you by in life, but you don't need to be fluent in order to be able to 'get by.' On Guildwars though it differs. People look at players skill bars and instantly state it's wrong because of meta changes and latest build trends. The average PvE group or PvP group will crucify someone for the wrong skill, even if it is in someway appropriate, or the player has learnt how to use that successfully. Because it looks odd or out of place, the player is alienated. Language in that respect differs an incredible amount. As a general statement, you wouldn't have a go at someone for not using the correct words and grammar in real life. It would be stupid to think you could, correcting everyone you meet (you might think it in your head, but you wouldn't outright tell someone their speech is wrong - something as a group leader in GW you might do, in relation to their skill setup). Not editing every spoken mistake in relation to language allows for human error and mistakes. Understanding what skills go with what skills and in what order is a decent comparison of human speech and fluency with a language. But overall, Guildwars players looking at other players skill bars and slating one skill, is so far away from human speech and language, leaving that comparison incorrect. There is no alternative in Guildwars, (you have to follow the latenst trends and what's popular - otherwise you're kicked), where as many people don't use correct grammar and punctuation in language and get by, without question, mostly. |
But getting to your point of discrimination about speech patterns and exclusion, it seems like you live in a good neighborhood, but i want to point out that there very much exists groups based on language and there is discrimination. For example, certain groups in the united states despise ebonics and I would doubt someone speaking ebonics would get into a high class dinner party. Or someone speaking with a deep southern accent would mingle with a californian sorority party. You might not necessarily fight with someone who uses words differently, but just like gw, real life has its share of elitism and niches based on slang and expressions used. And the conflicts between those groups make the conflict between pver's and pvper's look absolutely trivial by comparison
LordDragon
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Originally Posted by stanzhao
learning gw skills is not like learning to read at all.
first, people are forced to learn to read in schools.... |
So for me, I was never really "taught" to read.
I do agree with the OP that I have amassed a large amount of information in the years of immersion in GW.
dark582
The same pattern can be seen in other symbol based systems as well. For example, I'm a musician and have been for 11 years of my life so when I look at a piece of sheet music, it is very natural and easy for me to understand what each symbol means and what I need to do to replicate what I see through my instrument.
Another example is the binary number system. After taking a class that deals heavily with binary, I can say that when i'm in that class, I shift my thinking from base 10 (decimal) to base 2(binary) in much the same way a person fluent in two languages can shift their thinking from one language to another.
Another example is the binary number system. After taking a class that deals heavily with binary, I can say that when i'm in that class, I shift my thinking from base 10 (decimal) to base 2(binary) in much the same way a person fluent in two languages can shift their thinking from one language to another.
Lord Dagon
never thought about it that way.. that really is creepy xD. Guess thats how i learned my spanish too.....
snowman relic
lol guildwars math next:
There are twelve charr at the gate you are level 10 warrior the charr are level 15 you have no heros your henchmen are a lv 10 healer, lv 10 brawler, and lv10 enchanter what do you do?
A) Have brawler smash two charr at once while enchanter deals with one and you kill one healer keeping you alive untill they overwhelm
B) you and brawler team up on charr one by one making kills easy while enchanter deals with healers
C) Screw that reroll your toon you shouldent have chosen a warrior lol (its a joke i love warriors personally)
There are twelve charr at the gate you are level 10 warrior the charr are level 15 you have no heros your henchmen are a lv 10 healer, lv 10 brawler, and lv10 enchanter what do you do?
A) Have brawler smash two charr at once while enchanter deals with one and you kill one healer keeping you alive untill they overwhelm
B) you and brawler team up on charr one by one making kills easy while enchanter deals with healers
C) Screw that reroll your toon you shouldent have chosen a warrior lol (its a joke i love warriors personally)
awry
Quote:
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Originally Posted by snowman relic
lol guildwars math next:
There are twelve charr at the gate you are level 10 warrior the charr are level 15 you have no heros your henchmen are a lv 10 healer, lv 10 brawler, and lv10 enchanter what do you do? A) Have brawler smash two charr at once while enchanter deals with one and you kill one healer keeping you alive untill they overwhelm B) you and brawler team up on charr one by one making kills easy while enchanter deals with healers C) Screw that reroll your toon you shouldent have chosen a warrior lol (its a joke i love warriors personally) |
snowman relic
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Originally Posted by awry
d) I flag the hench as distraction and skip my merry way into the portal.
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Fate Crusher
If every sentence was 8 skills long, then yes, we could say that we've mastered a basic language.
I like what you're thinking and it's a scary thought, but I would relate it more to Maths and algebra than something as complex as a language. It's like identifying a number, quantifying it in a different measurement and working out the rest of the solution (synergy of other skills/builds/team builds/type of PvP) with other "numbers".
You don't make sense.
Moreover, I live in the Middle-East and unless you're South African, not a single country cares that much about immigration at all (because SA passports also contain your criminal record). The UAE love it, Qatar is open and you can drive into Saudi Arabia from Dubai/Qatar if you wanted. That last part however you're expected to leave after 24 hours, but whatever!
I like what you're thinking and it's a scary thought, but I would relate it more to Maths and algebra than something as complex as a language. It's like identifying a number, quantifying it in a different measurement and working out the rest of the solution (synergy of other skills/builds/team builds/type of PvP) with other "numbers".
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Originally Posted by Ka Tet
So what you're saying is if Spanish speakers gave old white men tiny pets or shiny gold emotes for learning Spanish, then no one would care about immigration. My friend, I think you should visit the Middle East.
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Moreover, I live in the Middle-East and unless you're South African, not a single country cares that much about immigration at all (because SA passports also contain your criminal record). The UAE love it, Qatar is open and you can drive into Saudi Arabia from Dubai/Qatar if you wanted. That last part however you're expected to leave after 24 hours, but whatever!
nem coke
It's not a big deal, average player will have a couple thousand hours played. Let's say 2k hours (I'm not sure if that's the average, I have 5k , and there are a lot of people with more than that) ,that player would need to learn only skill description every 1 hour, with exception of every 3rd hour, where you'd need to learn 2 skills. Well , human brain capabilites are a lot higher, so it's really nothing special.
Chthon
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Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor
flash cards that you play with for an hour or two hours or possibly three. A very effective studying strategy!
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BlueNovember
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Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns
... It's kind of like playing Chess for so long that you know, from start to finish, what every move will ever lead to. ...
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Quote:
| If guild wars was a language, we would all be either fluent or at least semi literate. |
Additionally, if you were unemployed whilst playing GW, follow these steps:
- Find your hours played with /age
- Find the minimum wage in your area
- (If you have a college/university education, add to the above figure as you see fit)
- Do some multiplication.
Miss Puddles
That's assuming a degree actually gets you ahead these days. Wah wahhh.