Returning player: confused on proper henchman use, strategies, lvling up builds, etc.

Quick background: I bought GW when it came out. For whatever reason it just didn't catch me. I always liked the business model and planned to give it a shot later. Fast forward to now, I grabbed all the expansions and even the bonus pack, and am having a lot of fun.

But I feel like I'm doing a lot of things wrong.

I made a new character in Nightfall figuring it would be easier to re-learn the game with a new character. He's now a level 9 warrior/paragon. I have two heroes - a warrior and a monk. I generally run with Kimh (the monk) henchman because when I don't we just get torn up.

I feel like I am setting my heroes/henchman up with the wrong powers or something, or maybe even my own character.

My character's template: OQkSEPKSCF7gBGAhwbXF/VdF

Koss's template: OQASEH6NCF/CgJwoV4K/VBA

Dunkoro's template: OwAT0MnApJjASyJ0V8BKplETAA

Gearwise, I'm using mostly Sunspear Cuirass crafted armor from the npc, Turai's Sword, Serrated Shield from /bonus.

I basically just let my henchman do their own thing. I don't micromanage any of their buffs, other than the fact that I have Koss' frenzy turned off and I only hit it when I think its safe.

I have done a lot of research on builds, but almost everything I find is about end game builds. So leveling up I don't really know what I should be shooting for, how I should be getting my "good" skills unlocked, etc.

Your help is greatly appreciated!

For reference:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry

1) TNTF is too expensive.
2) Get Flail. Unlock it using Balthazar Faction and then buy it in Kamadan.
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unlock
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zaishen_Challenge

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Qu ery

1) WY needs Tactics.
2) Ditch Frenzy. Unless you can build to accomodate it, it'll do more harm then good, especially on a hero.
3) Get Flail.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry

1) Get rid of the smites. You're better off having Dunkoro keep you alive and have another damage dealer than Dunkoro not being good enough and having to take another monk.

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Overall it's not too bad. You just need to get more/better skills. Unlocking them means your heroes can use them (without you needing to buy them) so if you find good hero builds it isn't hard to put them together.

Also, if you want an easy introduction, Prophecies is a better option.

Thank you for all the tips!!!

I was told by a number of friends that leveling up is a lot faster in Nightfall, and that it is more fun too. Plus I like Egyptian theme stuff so its a good fit.

I'm actually thinking about starting over again with an Elementalist. It sounds like they can really make for a solid solo (and later farming) character, and sometimes its getting annoying chasing after mobs.

i assume the henchman tips are the same, what about elementalist leveling up builds? And what's a good secondary for a good leveling up and farming build?

Thanks!

Leveling up is faster, but that's probably a bad thing if you're a new player. Leveling up slowly means you have more time to adjust and learn the game mechanics, how to play, etc before you get thrown into the deep end.

Fun is subjective. People tend to prefer the story of Prophecies, which may or may not be a major factor in whether you enjoy the game.

Play what you think you'd prefer. You'll figure out which playstyle you like more after a while. You've got lots of character slots to play with, so making another char isn't a big deal.

If by 'solo' you mean playing the game with a 1 person party, you're out of luck. GW is a team based game. You can't just load up a build and roll over it easily without a team backing you up.

If by 'solo' you mean you plus a bunch of AI (which is called 'H/H') all professions perform well. This isn't really a concern.

If you're concerned about farming (you don't ever need to farm), you're much better off with a Rit or an Assassin (both of which would require you to start in Factions).

Hero/Hench tips are the same, at least for now. Later on you'll want to customise your build so that it suits an Ele rather than a Warrior (who would fill the hero slots with physical buffs).

For builds, secondary advice, etc read the sticky in the Elementalist sub-forum.

Yeah when I said solo I meant H/H.

I've been reading all the class guides and its weird how classes don't end up playing the role I'd expect.

I expected elementalist to be a class, ranged and/or AoE nuker, but it sounds like that's not the case.

I generally prefer light tank/dps tank type characters, though when I can do that ranged its even better.

I started looking at the paragon. That looks interesting. They don't have much/any AoE though so I'm wondering how well they can grind/farm. I actually enjoy grinding. ;p

Paragons are by far the last thing you want to play if you want to farm a lot. Their skills are based on buffing their team. They aren't designed with any solo survivability.

Also, Elementalists can AoE nuke, which they do perfectly well in Normal Mode, but as they get further into the game the damage they deal gets lower (foes have more levels and more armor) so they're better off running support type builds. There is no reason you can't nuke if you want to, you just won't be as efficient as you could be.

You seem overconerned with farming I'd suggest you just play through the storyline and get a feel for the game you don't have to farm to get up to your max equipment. If you insist on farming as soon as you hit level 20 then you might want to take a look at this website: www.pvxwiki.com it has alot of builds stored and has a farming section which might suit you.

Farming Section: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...farming_builds

Speedclear Section: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Category:G...king_SC_builds

Speedclears are basicly like the name says clearing an area in the lowest amount of time as possible to get the reward. These are usually done in a team of 8 people. I don't think you should focus on these speedclears yet though they require a sort of knowledge of gw skills and use you will pick the basics up after playing through nightfall campaign I guess. You'r best bet to learn these speedclears after that is to watch some videos on youtube to get an idea of what to do and then join a PuG (Pick up Group)

Actually, if you prefer H/H, I'd stick with what you've got. The AI for melee henchies and heroes is not very good; if you do the melee part yourself, you will, on average, have smarter henchies. Don't worry about not having ranged heroes, you'll get plenty later on.
Warrior has decent AoE as well, through an elite skill called 100 Blades (only works on a sword warrior).

Basically, I want a fun character to get my first to level 20 so I can see more of the game.

My warrior/paragon (level 10 or 11) isn't bad, but chasing after people in melee sometimes gets annoying. I don't know if that gets better later.

Paragon sounds interesting. It has range. Seems to have good DPS via the "Imbagon" build, and good team support.

Elementalist seems like it would be cool to for blasting through mobs to go through the storyline.

One thing that is tough is I cannot find any "leveling up guides" anywhere. Everything is end game. So I can't figure out what I should have at say level 5, or level 10 to see if I am moving in the right direction.

It does get better. You'll learn (either by yourself or by reading guides) how to pull, hold aggro, etc. Doing that means the foes will be closer together and there will be less time running around and more time hitting things.

The Imbagon isn't built for DPS. It's built purely to keep "Save Yourselves" up permanently. Note that if you aren't running this exact build, other people are very unlikely to let you into their groups. I imagine it gets dull incredibly fast. If ranged DPS is your thing, you're better off with a Ranger (not that Rangers are DPS machines, but they're better at it (not to mention that their primary attribute, Expertise, makes it viable for you to use Scythes and Daggers too if you like)).

You don't need leveling up guides. Levels 1-19 is really just a tutorial sp don't worry about what you should have by what point. Nothing barring your primary profession is a permanent choice in this game. If you don't like your skills, change them. If you don't like your attributes, change them. If you don't like your secondary attribute, change it (you won't be able to do this until you get past a certain point in the story though), if you don't like your party composition, change it. GW isn't like other games where level progression and gradual character building are the key points of interest. If you are able to handle the content you're going fine.

I thought about that, but then I started reading about rangers and everyone was trashing them for subpar DPS and being nothing particularly good or special to a team.

I can tell you that making new characters over and over is getting old. Trying to settle on something that "fits" is tough.

Paragons aren't anything special DPS-wise. Rangers are probably better (definitely if you run Daggers or Scythe). Don't worry too much about the people that say that Rangers suck. While it's true that they don't do as much damage as other professions, they're definitely not useless. If you want to play one, play one. It's a game remember, you're supposed to be having fun.

If I was going to melee, I'd probably just stick with my war/paragon, no?

Yes, that's true. But part of having fun is finding a playstyle that fits. I'm having a lot of trouble with that!

What about this barrage/pet ranger? The R/Rt?

The point was that you could swap between ranged (playstyle) or melee (dps) whenever you wanted rather than having a character thats only good at one of them.

I've never run one, but they seem decent enough.

Aha! I see what you mean. So ranger/assassin or ranger/dervish? What are the pros and cons of each during leveling up time?

I see the ranger has some AoE arrows and such. Any CC or knockdowns or anything like that? Any kind of defense or survivability?

You'll be able to change your secondary after a while. You won't be able to pick /A unless you're in Cantha (the Factions place), so go /D if you want melee capability now.

CC (crowd control, I'm assuming) doesn't exist as such in GW. There is no skill effect that directly makes the foes want to attack you. The AI is smarter, preferring to attack people that have less armor and health. You can gain aggro with certain techniques however. Read the articles on the Wikis and in the sticky in the Warrior subforum. Rangers do not have any skills that cause knockdown either, but you could use non-Ranger skills for this if you really want to. Defense and survivability is generally the job of the backline, but there are good blocking stances and self-heals if you want them. Ranger armor is pretty good, it's better than that of squishy caster types but less effective than War/Para armor. However, Ranger armor has +30AL vs elemental, which puts the Ranger at the top when facing elemental damage.

Thanks for continuing to discuss this and answer questions. I know I'm being annoying with my bouncing all over the place.

How is paragon dps compared to ranger dps? I read some more posts and its all "ranger bows suck", etc, etc.

Seems from what I read, that paragon has decent ranged dps on top of group support and a lot of survivability. Is that true?

Fairly easy to play, deals good AoE damage, not-so-great single target damage (but decent enough), and is still good in Hard Mode. But you won't be able to start as R/Rt in Nightfall. You'll either have to start in Factions, or switch to /Rt later on.

In GW physical attacks, especially from melee weapons, are the main damage source; if you want to deal good damage throughout the entire playtime choose a physical (Warrior, Assassin, Dervish, Ranger, Paragon). While Rangers and Paragons don't deal as much damage with their class weapon (bow, spear) as the other 3 classes with their melee weapon both classes can use melee weapons well enough for normal PvE (this means not farming like for example SpeedClears).
Casters are mostly only used as (main) damage dealers in Tank'n'Spank teams in endgame ares; one or more players pull about a dozen or more foes together and then multiple casters uses their AoE abilities to kill all pulled foes within seconds.
Barrage is good when the team build was designed to support it, when you play normally there won't be enough foes clumping together to make it worthwhile, and if you're playing in a Tank'n'Spank team the casters will have killed all foes before you have fired two or three times.

GW is a team game, as a physical you normally try to deal as much damage as possible while your team mates keep you alive; you can use skills to increase your survivability (and rangers are one of the best classes for that), but it's usually better to divide the roles, for example the Warrior deals damage, the Ele hampers the opponent's Warrior to deal damage, and the Monk uses protection buffs and heals to keep the Warrior, Ele and himself alive.

That will vary greatly based on the build you're using; for example when you go all out damage as a paragon you can deal a comparable damage to a ranger, be it spear versus bow or both using scythes or daggers.
Bow damage "sucks" in PvE because it's smaller than the damage of melee weapons and the advantage of bow damage, namely be able to deal damage from afar, is not that important because foes in PvE rarly use snares and run away from melees.

Paragons have good survivability because of their base armor of 80, an armor upgrade (insignia) that gives them virtually permanent +10 armor and their shield which gives them additional +16 armor; but they don't have skills that increases their survivabilty by much, but as I have said above a physical doesn't really need that.
Paragon has plenty of good builds, but one build, the infamous Imbagon, is way better than any other Paragon build, that's why many players think it's the only "good" build.

Thanks for joining in the discussion. More info really helps.

I went back to my war/para for a bit and I guess I need to figure out a way to be happier with him. I'm thinking the secondary I chose was a mistake, as I'm basically getting nothing out of it. I don't know how long it will be until I can change that.

I am really intrigued by the paragon. The imbagon build seems kinda nice honestly. It has a few damage skills and tons of survivability. Is there a good more dps build?

Also, what abilities should I be making a priority as I level up a paragon?

Finally, what is a good secondary for fun, effective, fast advancement through the PvE storyline?

Thanks!

Also dps on a ranger will change with ranger depending on what bow you're using - longbow, recurve bow, flatbow, shortbow etc. Shortbow having a short refire rate. Thought I'd throw that out there for something to think about.

Read the Wind or Favorable Winds also help dps.

I don't know what Imbagon build you're looking at but it doesn't have tons of survivability for the actual Paragon itself - only "There's Nothing to Fear!" as defence.

Your job is to keep the rest of the party alive by using "Save Yourselves!" It's as simple as that.

P/D Scythe Spammer
P/A Dagger Spammer
A DPS spear Paragon is similar; it uses "Go For the Eyes!" for Energy Managment (and "The Power Is Yours!" if "GftE!" is not sufficient) to fuel Asuran Scan and spear attacks.

Mainly Spear Mastery; for every point below 12 the base damage (the value listed in the weapon description) is lowered by about ~8%, so you want to get it to 12 as soon as possible (additional points won't increase the damage by much, so you should put more than 12 points in a weapon attribute while below level 20). Next thing is Leadership because you need it for E-Managment, bring it to 8 if you're playing in 4-man areas, and to 10 if you're playing in bigger partys. Next thing is Command for "GftE!", that skill will be your main source for energy for most builds.

Usually you cannot really use your secondary while you level up because you're lacking the attribute points to make it worthwhile; "For great justice!" (Warrior) is good though because you don't need to spend attribute points to make it effective.

Secondary doesn't matter much until later in the game. By then you will be able to swap it freely. For information on the different professions visit our Campfire section sub forums. There is one for each profession. Also there is one for Heroes http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...t10293264.html which covers all you need to know about them.

if you think a paragon is an interesting class then by all means give it a shot. My co-leader's main character is a Paragon and that is what he uses to farm with and well as run us guildies around. They are all fun classes regardless, I prefer caster but do have fun playing my paragon, warrior and all others that I have from time to time. Give a break from doing the same thing.

I think your problem here is that you're basing yourself on other people's words too much. Everyone has different opinions on classes, so if you're just tired of making new chars (not that it should be a problem as you have enough slots to keep them and maybe return there after - I think everyone has a favourite profession but that one is not necessarily the one you like most in the beginning) follow your "feelings" indipendently from avalaible builds ecc., that will come later in the game.
If you're interested in paragon go for it.

Oh, and rangers-side...true, everyone complains about their strenght but it's still a profession that can get the work done. I complain myself but it's always my favourite class.
As everybody tells paragon is in desperate need of a buff, but still there's people that likes playing it.
So, again, just try what you think you like. It's not like you can't change your mind after or your world goes kaboom anyway.

When you H/H, a good secondary is one that helps you get rid of your conditions, because heroes and henchies aren't very smart with their condition removal skills. /R for Antidote Signet, /Mo for Mending Touch and /N for Plague Touch are good choices.

I agree 100% with Mintha Syl...ranger is my main..yes I'd like to see more damage from my arrows, but I get a bigger kick out of interrupting and spreading conditions to the foes for the most part. Use all your slots save one for a pvp character though.

One thing I noticed is that you said you're using Turai's Sword and Serrated Shield, while you're still lower level. Do you have a Swordsmanship +1 helm, or a Minor Swordsmanship rune, to bring that stat up to at LEAST 9? If you don't, then you're not doing full damage with your weapon. The shield is also a Tactics one, and since you don't meet the requirement, you only get a +8 armor bonus. Look into finding a Strength shield instead, one you can take full advantage of.

Do you have any runes on your armor, or your heroes' armor? If so, could you list them? If not - get on that. Also check your heroes' weapons, especially Koss', against their stats to make sure they're doing more than starter damage.

If the game required you to do max damage and have max armor they would've started you off with that. And if your heroes were required to have runes right from the start the gold would drop in more abundance. I have only runed a few of my heroes and that is only on my main. None of "new characters" have max armor until the docks and I don't get a run there. I put max weapons on but I don't worry about attributes and I do just fine unless its my derv they just suck.

It's not about doing MAX damage; it's about doing damage appropriate to your level. What wielding a high-req max-damage weapon while not meeting the requirement does is push your damage to starter weapon level. So, instead of 15-22 damage, a sword will deal 2-3 damage. That's a significant difference.

As for runes, I didn't say they are required. But they help. Furthermore, you'll notice I asked WHAT runes are on their armor, if any - using runes badly can make the game significantly harder, especially for a newbie who can't compensate with skill.

And uh... if you keep failing on your derv, Neith, no, it really isn't because "they suck".

If you expect me to be mad at your jab about me sucking as a derv you're wrong. YOU may be good at each character YOU play, forgive me if I'm not as godly as you in that regard. I know what profession(s) I do well in so whatever on your comment. As far as damage my understanding is that if you don't have the required attribute level it will do half damage not take it to 2-3 damage.

A weapon doesn't deal the listed damage when you don't meet the req., but it doesn't deal as much damage as a beginner weapon nor half as much damage as listed; at least not for every sword.
I.e. I have a req13 sword that deals 5-7 damage when I don't meet the req.

@Desert: When can you pick up EotN skills? I didn't buy that expansion yet but its coming in the mail. This Asuran Scan ability looks awesome and everyone seems to use it.

Also, when do more skills unlock? On my war/par, the available skills stays the same. I check skill and hero skill trainers, but they seem to lack all the 'interesting' stuff I read about in builds.

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@Hattara: I have zero runes on myself or my heroes. I did make sure to get enough sword skill to have the min. req. Should I really start working on runes? I just figured as a noob I'd be too poor. Do I buy them from players or from an NPC?

I also figured I have such crap armor right now that it is a waste. Should I be doing something to make sure I have better armor? I'm using half stuff I got from a vendor, and half istani armor from collectors.


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Should I be micromanaging my heroes or is it enough to just try to make sure they have decent abilities on their hot bar and let them do their thing?

Are heroes always better to have than henchmen?


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So paragon spear DPS? How good/bad is it? I think I'm getting really annoyed with running around in melee, and honestly, my warrior feels like his survivability is all about how fast the monk is healing me rather than anything I am doing.

Thanks all!

Taken from http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damag...n_Requirements

Although, to be fair, in thre same article it does also say

You gather skills as you go along. Many people are giving you builds that you cannot use until you are level 20 and completed all campaigns on at least one character. For example, Asuran Scan is a nice skill but it's power is dependent on you EotN Asuran reputation rank. You are a long way from getting that maxed.

Your warrior's DPS will increase as you gain attribute points and put them into Strength and a single weapon attribute. This affects both your base DPS and the max damage for your weapon.

About the max damage if you don't meet the requirement of a weapon: yes, it IS starter weapon damage. That is, the BASE damage is equal to starter weapon. You DO still get the benefits of mods, so armor penetration from Sundering and Strength take it up a notch, customization takes it up a notch, critical hits take it up a notch, and so on. That's why you see bigger numbers than the starter damage, but that really is the base damage. As for the "deals half damage", I think you have it mixed up with shields, which provide half the listed armor if you don't meet the req. EDIT: lovely guildmate Hollygen pointed out up there that dropped weapons may have different damage output. News to me, but if that's how it is then that's how it is.

If that's you not being upset, well... okay. But please don't put words in my mouth. I was merely pointing out that an entire class does NOT suck because one individual is not able to play it effectively. I made no claims of my own abilities - I was pretty bad with dervs until recently, and I'm not the most effective person on a nec, leading to pretty lulzy deaths and having to try try try again. I will freely admit this. There is nothing wrong with saying "I can't play [class] well". It's a very juvenile reaction to go "I'm not good at X, therefore X must suck".

Zero runes is better than bad runes. TBH, I was more concerned you might have put on superior runes - the hit to HP is not worth it, esp. before level 20 - or several runes that don't stack - which is a waste.

I don't think it's absolutely necessary to start on runes, no, when you're still not level 20 and don't have max armor. Making sure you have the highest level armor available to you is more important. I'd say if a good rune drops for you, you can make use of it, and just remember to salvage it off your armor when you get better armor.

Some skills should always be micromanaged as heroes don't use them effectively, or at all. Otherwise... eh. I have several guildies who always micromanage their heroes. I only micromanage in specific circumstances where it's called for. I don't find that it's good for me personally to try and multitask so much - I let the AI be as intelligent as it can, and that's usually just fine.

In EotN, you may find the profession skills from the skill trainer once you reach the Eye of the North, which is less than thirty minutes (probably 15).

Each of the PvE skills requires completion of a quest to obtain them. Here is a list of the PvE skills. Click on each skill to view the quest required to obtain it.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_...e_of_the_North

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill...28Nightfall%29
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_...skill_trainers
Skill trainers in Nightfall.

Try to upgrade your armor as it becomes available, if you can afford it. You get a vigor rune for free from a quest. Make sure you use an expert salvage kit to retrieve any runes you apply on your armor before you upgrade them. You can buy runes and insignia from Rune Traders, which are service NPCs in various towns. There's a rune trader in Kamadan. Don't worry about insignia until you have max armor (80 for warrior).

So should I go ahead and get EotN asap? And once I add it to my account, how do I get there? Is it another starting campaign?

Thanks for those links. Will I happen upon these quests naturally as I move through the level up storyline, or do I really need to hunt them down?

Also, do I have to unlock them on every character?

Weird question... How do I do that? Do I just check the armor vendors as I find new towns?

Also, the hero armor seems to indicate that it levels up with them. Can I just leave their armor alone?

Lastly, any more tips or insight on my class selection problems?

Thanks again all,

That's wrong, but if we want to further discuss this matter we should do it here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...tml?t=10443938

That's also wrong, shields give +8 armor if you don't meet the req, yes even when it would give +8 armor when you meet the req.
There's a very detailed post about this here on the forum.

The further to advance through the story the more skills will the skill trainer have to sell.
You can also Balthazar Faction to unlock a skill and then buy it from every skill trainer in the coresponding campaign; for more information read post #2.
The EotN skills are sometimes not easy to obtain, you shouldn't bother with them unless you have a little more experience (read: finished one or two other campaign(s)) because EotN is noticeable harder than the other campaigns; if you go there first there's you'll properly get slaughtered constantly.

You can buy runes/insignias from NPCs or salvage them from items you found, but I wouldn't bother with that unless I'm level 20 though.

If you don't mind farming you can get armor from collectors very cheaply; armor from collectors can't be upgraded with insignias though, so you should buy a max armor (80 +20 against physical for warriors) when you can.

Are heroes always better to have than henchmen?[/quote]
Only if you have enough skills unlocked to equip your heroes with them and you have already a vague knowledge about the profession. With the right builds heroes can easily look after themselves.

See that you are a Warrior/Paragon you can also just switch to a spear.

These are the profession skills available if you own EotN. The PVE skills are also listed. Each PvE character on your account must each learn every skill, yes.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_...e_North_skills

Eye of the North is also the name of an outpost in the expansion, and it's the first place you reach with a skill trainer. You must own one of the campaigns to play the expansion, but you already meet that requirement. There is a separate quest from each campaign to reach the EotN expansion; see here. There's little reason to get EotN before you are level 20; everything in the expansion is designed as level 20 content. You can get there as early as level 10 if you want, but I'd recommend that only if you want a particular profession skill or one of the heroes that join in the beginning(Vekk, Ogden, and Gwen).

Hero armor automatically increases with their level, so no upgrade is necessary.