Hall of Monuments private?

Disclosing actual real-life personal details is somewhat different to them allowing access to what you've dedicated in your HoM. They haven't disclosed anything which could be used to link and account to a person at all, all it does is link some of the contents of an account to the name of the account, information which can, in some cases, be obtained just by seeing the character ingame. If you've ever had your Mini Panda out on display ingame isn't that consent for Arenanet to release the information on their servers? After all they've already shown your Panda to a whole load of people ingame.

Please do, assuming you have legal training or actual expertise. It's something which greatly interests me.

I see no reason to hide this.
Hackers attacking those with obsidian armor?
That means you ADDED it to the HoM, no that you have it.
If they want to attack anyone with an obsidian armor, all they have to do is looking for someone that has it.

What any other reason could be?
Not being acepted into a clan for having an empty hall?
What kind of clan would that be?
And why would you want to lie to get into that clan?

There's just no reason to hide one's HoM.

Why people care about this kind of nonsense is beyond me.

ugg, you know what the sad thing is. I would not at all be surprised if this happened.

I check the HoM of everyone I group with but just out of curiosity and I wouldn't kick anyone for a low score. Lots of people in my guild have low scores because they aren't interested in Titles or Minis or Hero Armor but they're all good players for the most part.

Let's stop with all the paranoia.

I haven't seen a lot of thread (if any) where someone who had GWAMM/obsidian amor/chaos gloves had been hacked for that sole reason.

As for the minis, some people on this forum have no trouble showing them off and since it's been a few year, they have yet to be hacked.

So if you are someday hacked it's not because of your title or your possessions, it's because you didn't come up with a good password (don't know if anyone remembers but if your account is [email protected] then having for passsword "ryan123" isn't a good idea...) and you have a few viruses in your computer.

It's guru, if there's some tiny insignificant thing to whine about, you can be damn sure someone here will.

Well, I could quote myself again as you see the majority does not see this as much of an issue at all. It is REALLY hard to argue convincingly on the right to privacy and why it is an important right.

The main reason is that 'right to privacy' is a very vague or intangible concept. (I don't know if this makes sense, not an english native speaker.) While everyone will agree that it IS an important right, you will rarely find two people who agree on what it specifically entails and its limits.

As a starting point we can confirm that it is an important right and that any breach requires a reason. Not only that but the benefits of this reason must outweigh the downsides of violating the right to privacy. It is in most cases a conflict of interests. As such 'right to privacy' is a fluid concept and often hard to authoritatively ascertain. (the fact that it often involves international and interlegal law does not help ease the process)

Now for "our case" we will have to assume that at least some people might have an interest in keeping their HoM data private. While the majority might not feel this way we can probably agree that some people might, or more importantly that some people might come to this conclusion in the future. It is at this point unclear what(if any) consequences there will be to this information being publicly available. Things like HoM "discrimination" might come up, or there might be more serious issues - who knows. This is part of the reason it's hard to argue the case of right to privacy, it is often hard to predict possible development and potential problems. (Think of social media, Facebook etc, many people have put up very private information often without realising possible consequences. Many of them were hard to foresee and more will probably arise in the future.)

It is true that the data per se does not directly link to a specific individual, but also cases where the individual might be indirectly identified are included. I am also in doubt as to whether the in-game persona can be said to represent the individual or not. Like when you interact in game are people playing with "you" or are they playing with your avatar? I'm inclined to go with the first option. Regardless there is no doubt when it comes to applying privacy law(norwegian law in my case, which is similar to most of european law), the data ARE linked through your in-game nickname to an actual person.

I must admit I have not read "the small print" when I bought my account but apart from that I have not given my consent to make public information related to my account. You bring up as an example that someone who displays a title or a panda in game might be said to have given consent. Well yes, sort of - but even if you make some information public to a limited group of people it does not follow that you would want that information spread to a much wider group of people. For many privacy issues it is the "widespreadedness" that causes the most problems. (Relate to paparazzi photos of celebrities, it's when stuff ends up on the internet the problems arise.) Keep in mind that the entire HoM has been made public. The fact that consent is missing is probably the most serious part of this issue, for some it might seem as a flaw in integrity on Anet's part. Consent is the prime justification for publication, but it is not the only one. I will not comment on other justifications for publication in great detail but there are three types: consent, established in law or it is considered necessary for specific tasks. The key word being necessary.

As to the conflict of interest in this case we have some people voicing concern about having their account data made public weighed against (probably) an easy way of implementing the HoM calculator. The alternative would be (I guess) to require login and password. Do the benefits outweigh the downsides? Could there be other downsides or benefits I have not mentioned?

This is probably too much of a wall of text and people will flame me for being "paranoid". I'm not too fussed about the issue personally but I can see potential problems which is why I chimed in. And you asked me to get into more detail.

Thanks for that, i'm an aspiring lawyer (I start university next year) and love reading this kind of stuff.

/signed


...yes, titles are there for showing off, but you should still be able to control what other people see. Especially since this calculator is intended to let you know what bonuses you get in GW2 (if you want to show off, then show off with your Champion of the Gods title once GW2 goes live!) -- people are instead using it to evaluate someone's progress in the CURRENT GW1 ... like WoW players checking Achievement points before inviting to a raid/guild ...If you play a very specific part of GW, such as farming DoA or only PvP (or think Vabbi and Destroyer weapons are ugly like me)... your HoM points will be very low. It is unfair for example, for someone to kick you from a UW group because you have low HoM points -- so what if you don't have 50 minipets? How does that reflect your skill and experience in UW runs?

Tbh, I barely have done UW at all and I started off at 45/50...and so you are gonna let me in your Speed Clear because I apparently look good on a calculator. :P I was somewhat annoyed with the calculator being public at first because of all the whispers of comparisons that I received in-game. " ZOMG I am Higher than YOU" ....but .....it kinda got funny after a while, PLUS it was good to see my friend's list and my guild with so many people online( To make those comparisons -_-)

......people really stop at NOTHING to rate people do they?

AWESOME .

Well, I don't mind people seeing my 30/50 (at the moment), a similar thing (with whole inventory, build and skills for everyone to see) is in WoW and I think it is a rather cool thing, but I also understand that some people do mind and would like to retain their privacy.

That's something I think they've done right with the HoM calculator site. As it stands, all you have to do is type in a character name, there's no requirement to type in account details. That means there's one less possible security breach.

As the chappie in the HoM has the option to click him to take you to the HoM calculator, if there's going to be a privacy option added I'd like to see it be done by talking to him in game. (I'm not holding my breath on this one, just making the suggestion in case anyone from ANet's listening and taking it seriously.)

Its just nice to know that anet is actually doing something to calculate the HoM into GW2..i take the 00/50 as a good sign that it will make a difference in GW2 as to what you did in GW. But stalking your HoM...the only reason you wouldn;t want anyone seeing your HoM is bc its empty and you feel like a noob. Other than that what harm does it do?

/notsigned

It could even be a marketing strategy...you know, some people could be boosted to work harder for their HoM after realizing that they have less points than their friends. Some people may even be tempted to come back to GW not to be/feel inferior to their friends. If the HoM information were private, instead, it would be easier to say "who cares", and stay far from GW, expecially if someone is not sure whether to buy or not GW2.

This assuming that it's a marketing strategy to have more people being actively involved in GW, for advertising purposes.

/signed, it is privacy invasion

It should be private by default and shareable at will.
Noone should be forced to reveal his in-game rewards to world wide web... neither 0/50 or 50/50.

We don't own your telephone number, you pay for it, you can't sell it.

What about a website showing numbers of calls you call and receive...

It is an invasion of privacy. WoW Armory is likewise an invasion of privacy. I expect better from ArenaNet and hope we get it.

I think your guys a kind of exaggerating the "right of privacy".

You guys would be happier if it required you to put your account name + password + character name on an internet browser ? I'd be a little more paranoid if that was the case.

Really, if people get discriminated because of it they should be kind of happy. At least they won't lose time and money on a team that will most likely fail (just like joining a "EXP GLF EXP players, no noob" or a "Show stone" group....)

haha the egos are hilarious

i say god job to everyone who bothered to play the game in its entirety instead of becoming stagnant.

for those who have a high number and dont like it, get over yourself nobody cares about you

for those that have a low number, you've only yourself to blame, if anyone, this is a game afterall, no RL glory etc heh


6-8-18-7-5 fyi

Actually wondered for 5 mins what those numbers were supposed to mean.

Isn't that kind of egocentric to post your achievements to sort of back up what you were saying ? People aren't (and shouldn't be) that dumb to actually judge the post of someone else based on his HoM (or his post count, or anything).

GW2 won't be out for at least a year so if someone really wants 50/50, they should play instead of hoping some things will be easier to obtain (you can still hope for more minis and more weapons, but really if ANet is going to change anything is to make the cap a little harder to reach).

/notsigned

It's not like this is giving anyone information that could possibly lead to an account compromise. The only reason I could see anyone wanting to do this is if you had nothing in your hall and you were flaunting (lying) in chat about how much bling you have in-game.

If that's the case, then I hope people do take the time to look up your account. Always better to get the truth out there! /patpat

not really happy about it.....but as long as people cant correlate your ign with your account name and password I guess I will live with it----

/not signed

Its so simple for me when guildies ask for help to max there HoM and i can just go look at what is needed for them.

Plus i enjoy showing off my achievments.

Only reason i think some people dont want people to see it is because they have been blagging what titles they actually have and now people can call them that hahaha, witnessed that a few times now lol.

Im in yer HoM's...Defiling yer Minipets!!!
Aaaaarrrrrrggghhh
Chezburgggaahhh

dammm knew i should have /signed this :P

I'm kind of a HOM stalker...mostly it's to drop bombs on trolls I see in major towns bragging about this and that and how they can "faceroll the game with no armor" whenever someone posts up a LFG message. If I see anyone talking about how good they are and how scrub everyone else is, they usually have a lower score...under 20/50. I've very rarely seen someone with 40+/50 talking smack in town. It's very strange.

I don't care what people see in mine. I run around with my shinies out and my titles, no biggie. If they want to hack my account they need to know that my char name exists in the first place before looking at HOM...and if they see it in town they already see what I have accomplished.

I do this often as well but I find most of the major smack talkers usually use a extra account only having 3/50 points or at least the ones I've ran into.

3/50 doesn't always mean extra account...sometimes it means they just don't have eotn. That alone discounts their talking, because aside from UW/Deep/Urgoz, the hardest stuff in the game is in EOTN.

Some who have extensive titles and goodies but don't have eotn are not going to show much in HOM. I ignore 3/50's for this reason. but if I see more than 3, that shows me that they do have EOTN, and they've put in the effort to build up that account, at least a little. So, either they have maxed their main acct and put extras into their secondary, or that's their main. Either way, you shouldn't really be smack talking on an alt account with nothing to show for it.

/signed for the same reason why people shouldn't be able to look through your inventory, character stats etc. It's private information about your account and shouldn't be made public.

The amount of "i don't care so it's not a problem"-argumentation in this thread really saddens me btw. At least try to argue why people should have the ability to look through your achievements and wheigh it up against the arguments against it..

No, it ALWAYS does.

To make them appear in the calculator, you MUST add them to your HoM.

It's the HoM calculator, not the account achievement calculator.

i has 39/50! muahaha!

anyways, /indifferent

i really cannot care less about this stuff. it's cool yeah. but honestly? i stopped caring about it once i cruised passed 30/50 as i got everything i wanted by then. the rest is just bonus

i actually prefer it. You can check if someone really needs help or they are just trying to leech free help from others. It helps prioritize between helping a genuine noob and a rich lazy bum.

/notsigned

I actually disagree, I think it's fun to check up on friends. Maybe, they can make players decide for themselves wether they wish to share or not.
I do not think it is an actual invasion of privacy either. Anyone can check up my xbox live gamerscore as well, if they wanted to.

I spy on my alliancemates and my guildies all the time, partially because I want to peek at their stuff, and partially because I want to know what I can help them with. "Oh, I see you don't have The Deep, how about we set up a run for...." that kind of stuff.


The fact that we can display titles kind of makes the "Keep it private" null and void. I don't want you to see that I have 30 titles but I'll display GWAMM.


What is in there to keep private, anyway? Oh, so you can see I have obby/vabbian/whatever prestige armor here... so what? Chances are you'll be wearing it anyway.

I don't know, seems kind of silly to block off the HoM calculator.... it isn't hurting anyone and really, what's the point? People will know you're however far along just by what you wear/show.


/notsigned

Hmmm...no. Not exactly. I mean, it depends what country we're talking about, but...

My advice to you, as a lawyer, would be to start reading LAWYERS. Not well-meaning but uninformed people on gwguru who talk about a "right to privacy" without explaining the source of that right (hint: it REALLY MATTERS in determing just what is encompassed by said "right").

As far as that other business is concerned, about displaying your panda in-game vs. showing it in your HoM...the reasoning is LAUGHABLY BAD.

It's not "widespreadedness." It's control of information. If you show your panda (or your obby armor, or your kanaxai, or whatever overpriced piece of crap you actually think people care about) in game somewhere, you've shown it TO THE PUBLIC.

Again, I'm sorry, but you should not talk so extensively about things you so clearly do not understand.

O holy thread resurrection.

I'm not sure why you come off at me with guns blazing like this? You're not exactly backing up your statements by anything other than claiming to be a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer myself but I do hold a master's degree at law, although I prefer to let arguments speak my case and not titles. Pretty much the way I do in game.

I'm norwegian and I think I stated this earlier and this is in fact how norwegian privacy law works. Being that Anet is an american company(?) they are assumed to meet the european criteria as defined in the 'safe harbor' principles. I know other countries have lower standards for right to privacy but that should not detract from mine.

The displaying of minipets is just a sidetrack, don't get lost on that issue. You can't very well make lists of behaviour made by people in public either - that is, registered to their names or in a way that can identify them.

If you think I'm wrong you're welcome to present some arguments. If you're going to flame and troll I doubt I'll dignify it with another response.

Ohnoes, how awfuls that people can see what you have achieved in the game so far.

Have any of you privacy freaks even considered that HoM is very similar to GAME RANKINGS in other games? You know, where you can look up an IGN and see what that character has achieved in terms of levels/fame? On some MMOs you can also see what specific server they play, what they're wearing and other features! ZOMGWTFBBQ DESE PPL R HAVIN DEIR PRIVACY INVADED!!!1!!eleventyone!!1!

For frig's sake, this is a GAME. It's not like your credit card details, home address, date of birth and phone number are all on there. You get more information about someone by looking at their Facebook profiles.

/notsignedbecausepeoplehavegottolearnwheretheactual risksareonlineintermsofidentityfraud

Jeez... -_-

Also, I agree with those who haven't signed in terms of finding it useful to help guildies out. I can check on who in my guild needs the same titles that I do so I can team up with them or in other cases, give them things towards those titles. The benefits of HoM being the way it is far outweigh the "gasp my e-peen will be seen for what size it really is".

/not signed is this a joke?