Suggestion to Solve Rank Discrimination.

I've noticed since HoM calculator has arrived and the lack of PvP required in that calculator there has been alot of debate of why pvp is broken and what should be done...

During these discussions and an analogy made by "Still Number One" using different leagues of football to compare to ranked players to the different college leagues and professional ect ect... I thought to myself that this is not currently an accurate analogy because you have noobs grouped into the same arenas as the highest ranked players.... so I believe we should make this a accurate analogy...

My suggestion is to have different arenas or leagues for players of different ranks..(I.e. Players that are r0-r3 can only play other teams that are r0-r3..ect).. All should reward the same fame and once that player advances to r4... will not be permitted to play in a r0-r3 arena.. Much like the low level pvp arenas in prophecies... This will allow players to gain experience in a much more laxed learning environment and work his/her way up to a refined pvp-er to play with more refined Pvp-ers....

This has been suggested dozens of times. It's just as bad an idea as it was the most recent time you made this thread.

why is it a bad idea?

You are making an already tiny playerbase more segregated.

we don't have much to lose...People that are currently playing arenas like HA play with people close to their rank anyway. And who is to say if we don't give people a learning environment it won't increase player base?

While I like the concept, it's too hard to implement.

With the exception of the now-defunct HB (which I miss, btw), GW PvP is not 1v1. What happens if a r3 and r9 wish to play together in HA? If you were restricted by rank, friends wouldn't be able to play together/people wouldn't be able to easily gain ranks on alt accounts by playing with people they're used to playing with (maybe not that much of a bad thing?) and I can assure you people would try to "rig" matchups either with low-ranked alt accounts, or bringing a r0 player to make the "average" rank in a HA group lower... etc.

I can't say much for GW as a whole, but in respect to the low playerbase, I know for one that I would be playing HA more frequently if rank discrim/running into brick walls didn't exist so much. Funny that the people who say random matchup games (JQ/FA/RA) "aren't" PvP tend to be the same people who have no trouble finding groups in HA. It's PvP to the rest of us, because we aren't part of the little circle of elites.

hmm good point, maybe instead of disallowing, disallow famed to be gained in lower leagues... or limit how many wins a higher ranked team can obtain in lower leagues

This idea sounds a lot like the concept of ladder play. Which should exist for all pvp arenas anyway. Not gonna happen at this stage, though. Actually I'm pretty sure none of the ideas in this forum section will ever even be considered by anyone related to Anet.

GW2 is obviously coming soon and all we can hope for for GW1 is the dervish overhaul, possibly also a paragon overhaul. Game ovah.

Not a good idea.
Players should not be limited in this way.

Also, you learn a lot by facing stronger/better players.

Agreed, but you don't learn by playing with "baddies" either. One skilled player and 7 people who copied builds off of PvX without bothering to understand how it's used -- you won't win against an exp balanced team.

I think what makes finding a "good" group in HA so difficult is not necessarily just rank. It's also the mindset. If you have 8 decently intelligent people, if they are willing to play and learn together then they will be able to rise through the ranks.


tl;dr if you don't have friends of equal or greater learning ability/experience, you're SOL

Just because gw2 is coming soon doesn't mean gw1 needs to be dumbed down, gw1 will continue to exist even after gw2 release but more to your topic the system your asking for was originally in the game as you needed to win 10 match's in RA to advance to TA to win 10 match's to advance to HA, to filter out the noobs but it was removed due to popular demand for the CA which is even more inactive.

Yes, you just don't earn anything from that interaction to really encourage you to keep at it.

I for one can't subsist entirely on the warm, fuzzy feeling I get from being someone's +balth fodder.

Protip: those teams that are spamming GLF R9++ lose most of their matches and then ragequit

They aren't the teams you want to get on.

rank discrimination is a problem with the playerbase, not the game. As such, unless titles are removed completely, there isn't really anything the game designers can do to remove rank discrimination. The only feasible method therefore would be to change the playerbase's attitude... but good luck with that one.

Or...just implement what the OP suggests from the VERY BEGINNING...before 90% of the player quit due to rank discrimination or other reasons. The same system are used in real life sports and many PvP oriented games and its perfectly fine.

Heck, counter strike has a system of forcing good players onto a bad team and you don't see people complaining about that.

Before anyone say anything about "laziness" or "learning from good players"...the current system is analogous to a soccer team of 10 years old playing a team from a football league...the 10 years old won't learn anything thing with that kind of setup.

I've seen rankless teams getting rolled in 20 seconds...I'm 100% sure they didn't learn anything from that...nor do I find it fun to just destroy teams like that.

Why is this troll thread still open? "Rank discrimination" is just an excuse for bad players to stay bad. So my advice to all of you baddies: LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW!

The idea is good imho, the only thing is that we should remove any title achievable through grinding. Let's say there are 5 leagues (per format: HB, TA, HA, GvG). You start from the lowest, the 5th, which has its own tournament (maybe monthly). If you reach, say, the one of the first 3 positions in the tournament, you achieve a simple title, like a cup, that say that you have won the gold/silver/bronze medal in the febuary 2010 TA 5th league tournament, or something like that, and you are also allowed to register for the next TA 4th league tournament. The same thing happens for the other leagues etc.

No more points to grind for means that players would be encouraged to play to win and to have fun, not to stay in the lower leagues to farm noobs because there won't be any reward for it. Players could also play in lower leagues to help friends/guildies growing up, but without achieving any reward (except for, maybe, having brought up a possible valuable friend to help him in the first leagues), or if they want to play casually, relaxing in a less difficult environment.

Then there is the problem of how making it start. The first times there will be only a few people signing in, so there will be only one league, but as months pass better players will form teams in the first leagues, leaving the last ones to newcomers. However, this should be defined better.


And to reply to the argument "no need to separate players, you just have to get better", not everyone likes to compete for the first place in the first league. I, for myself, play volleyball since i was 14 (now i'm 26), and in these 12 years i've never reached any high-end tournament, i never won anything, except for some medals for the regional youth tournaments (i hope you are understanding, i don't know how to say it in english ), and now i'm playing in a non-professional team, for a non-professional tournament, i'm not payed (actually, i have to pay to play), i can't go around showing off anything, i'm not rewarded in any way except for the great fun there is for me in playing. And guess what? I'm having a fking load of fun and i never thought to stop. No need to be materially rewarded, nor to be a super champion to have fun in a sport, and in a sport-like game, imho.

Maybe all this is simply impossible to achieve in the internet, i often hear a lot of people around these forums saying that if you don't achieve any material reward for what you are doing you are a stupid naive and you are wasting your time, and that everything has be done for money (real or virtual). I hope to be wrong though.

Funny how people care about pvp and "elitism" now that that Hom requires 1 pvp statute.
Why didn't you pvp for all these years before?

/notsigned

Stop complaining and get your lazy ass to work.

People will not stop discriminating by rank.

Arguing will result in endless moaning by the regulars who only want more fodder for HA.

/notsigned

I wonder if they will EVER introduce something that occurs monthly, like a tournament, thats probably automated in some way.... and that if you achieve first you win something gold, come in the next few teams and recieve something silver and if you come beneath that you win something bronze.... that would be AMAZING!

Ok, sorry for the sarcasm, was too tempting. In top top top top end GvG u do realise rank dosent matter? GvG is what im talking about, and you get in on reputation and how you play, NOT by your rank. No one cares about your rank, its how good you are that counts, how many gold 'medals' you have won and stuff.

I retract at least some of the sarcasm as there was a thing a while ago called the rawr cup, organised by rebel rising that actually did exactly that. They split it into 3 leagues and required people to enter into each one based on their experience, purely on good faith that you would apply to what was appropriate for your teams level. It worked very well actually. However.... this is gws and the devs have no time so are NOT gonna organise anything like this. GvG like this it could have worked a while ago, but not now. In HA its just not feasible. If your not ranked.... really you dont stand a a chance... go to my thread on How to get your 1 PvP title for your HoM, that will give ya some advice.

The point is, people are allowed to be elitist... im elitist in PvE too, because if your elitist then you win. And i know its a game and the point is to have fun not win.... but getting rick rolled in 20 seconds is fun?!?!? maybe for you, but not for me.

Also, i have an r2 second account, as do plenty of my mates... surely we could just go farm the low rank arenas solidily for days till we achieved a rank vaguely corresponding to our ability?

Oh to the people saying people wont stop discrimiating against rank... thats not the suggestions... the suggestion is that anet forces people to only face people of their rank... and as well as the reason mentioned above.... isnt gonna happen cos there arnt enough peoples.

/notsigned

and can we have some kinda closure thread to the whole PvP elitism issue....
I kinda think it should be.... its there, its not going anywhere, if you hate it, dont come to PvP, if you want to get revenge then do it in PvE when pvpers try to come to PvE (WTB 12323141 Ghastly stones.... lol not), but then quickly realising that pvpers are actually half decent at pve too :P

also to the dude that said it... there is a very fine line between quitting due to rank discrimination and quitting because of losing....

One important thing that should be done about this thread is to transplant it into the GW2 forum so that Anet would hopefully spend the effort to remove/change this system for ALL forms of organized PvP from the very beginning. In GW1 there's already too many people so entrenched in their R9++ that any effort to improve the system would result in massive uproar.

I find the idea that anyone who's only a R2 is somehow any worse than a R7 kinda silly. There are still people buying the game and giving it a try.
The ludicrous suggestion that someone experienced in doing EoE spikes back in 05, Zergway in 07, or SF spikes in 06 has any relevance in the current game is just stupidity.

As for getting the PvP title, between Z missions and farming the crap out of CMs and AB; get a bunch of Zkeys.
Or even sell an ultra rare mini for Zkeys as opposed to ectos.
Either way, you'll get the title if you really want it.

So if a "ladder" system "won't work", how bout if INDIVIDUAL fame (outside of any tournaments) worked kinda like experience?

Use the highest ranked player on each team as the benchmark & then the Individual players on the team gains fame based on the rank of the opponents benchmark. Earn 0 fame for winning matches more than 3 ranks below benchmark. Earn 1 fame for winning between 3 ranks below benchmrk & 3 ranks above benchmark. Earn 2 fame for winning matches 3 ranks above benchmark.

High ranked players could still play with low ranked freinds. Or would that just alienate the high ranked players?

Sorry, everyone. I would have closed this as soon as I saw it last night, but my internet wouldn't let me.

This has been suggested before.

Closed.