What're the best options?
Warrior - yeah melee. AI doesn't know how to play melee. No.
Assassin - mostly melee. I can't see any reason to use A/R or A/P instead of Rangers and Paragons. No.
Derv - mostly melee. Some PBAoE nukes, which I don't think the AI knows how to use (never tried though), and besides they're affected by armour. D/P's etc are similarly inferior to P/whatever. Can't see any reason to use them.
Rit - spirit spammers are clearly the best caster damage right now, but you can only have one of each spirit and also only 2 Rits.
Nec - minion bombers deal lots of damage, but you can only run one of them. I don't know about everything else. SS does some damage, but apparently heroes only casts it on targets you're focusing, which greatly decreases its damage output. The rest of the Curses line suffers from low damage, unless via force amplification (MoP, Barbs), which needs something to trigger it in the first place. Death Magic would be great if it had more effective skills for damage, but it doesn't. There's Discord, Rising Bile, Putrid Bile, and ... out of options. A lot of the Death Magic damage skills are affected by armour as well, or aren't AoE. Finally there's Blood, which doesn't really do damage.
Mes - Dom Mes might be able to deal some damage. The damage doesn't come in large packets however (79 damage Spiritual Pain @ 16 spec, which is way inferior to 140-damage Lightning Orb @ 16 spec). Major draw I guess would be that the skills recharge quickly thanks to Fast Casting, and you cast them faster as well. Right now I imagine the best elite is probably Energy Surge.
Ele - Air is probably the best element choice. Something around Invoke Lightning + Chain Lightning + Lightning Orb + Shell Shock, probably.
Monk - don't deal damage. Comparatively little anyway.
Paragon - also don't deal damage, unless it's by proxy (Splinter Weapon from Rits).
Ranger - I don't know about this one, maybe someone with more experience with Rangers in PvE can tell me. Do a few pet attacks + some kind of AoE bow attack deal enough to match the other options? What about other weapon choices? Is it worth dedicating Splinter Weapons and MoP's and Strength of Honours for the pet?
Clearly nothing is going to match the Rits and MMs, but what's the next best option?
EDIT: I mean as a whole - so it's not Rangers competing with other Ranger builds, but Rangers competing with the best that Necros, Mesmers, Eles, etc can do.
Best hero damage builds
Jeydra
loopysnoopy
Lets make thing's simple shall we stay away from pvx that wont help read wiki
for the mission etc.
then create a build which suits that mission or an area which you want to farm.
Be creative DON'T be a sheep and follow the rest.
I am one of those people that hate discord and hates all build mostly from PVX
Its a game have fun if you fail try try again
Btw try and use an orders dervish and er proter with a healer and add wot ever henches u fancy.
for the mission etc.
then create a build which suits that mission or an area which you want to farm.
Be creative DON'T be a sheep and follow the rest.
I am one of those people that hate discord and hates all build mostly from PVX
Its a game have fun if you fail try try again
Btw try and use an orders dervish and er proter with a healer and add wot ever henches u fancy.
distilledwill
Monks - RoJ? Probably the best damage a monk can do - combined with the Smite "x" spells and you've got some decent damage + utility.
Mes - you are right about the Dom being the best damage IMO. But combine Panic (not a damage dealing skill on its own) with the Wastrel Spells (Worry and Demise) which trigger more damage if the enemy is unable to activate skills - then you get a decent amount of damage out of them. Plus they recharge incredibly quickly for such damaging spells (even faster with PvE Fast Casting). Plus, again, utility is good.
War, Assassin, Dervish - yes, you are right. Pretty poop as they are melee.
Ranger - with 7 heroes coming in at some point, I'm thinking Barrage/Pet might come back (Especially with SoS with Splinter being popular). I dont think a pure pet build would be much use, as they have the same problems as the melee heroes.
Paragon - can do some decent damage. They a similar DPS to warriors if specced correctly and will stay in position as they are ranged so a player using Ebon V Standard of Honour will get quite a lot of benefit from them.
Necro, Rits - yes all true, Death Magic is the way to go with the Nec and SoS is pretty much the balls.
Mes - you are right about the Dom being the best damage IMO. But combine Panic (not a damage dealing skill on its own) with the Wastrel Spells (Worry and Demise) which trigger more damage if the enemy is unable to activate skills - then you get a decent amount of damage out of them. Plus they recharge incredibly quickly for such damaging spells (even faster with PvE Fast Casting). Plus, again, utility is good.
War, Assassin, Dervish - yes, you are right. Pretty poop as they are melee.
Ranger - with 7 heroes coming in at some point, I'm thinking Barrage/Pet might come back (Especially with SoS with Splinter being popular). I dont think a pure pet build would be much use, as they have the same problems as the melee heroes.
Paragon - can do some decent damage. They a similar DPS to warriors if specced correctly and will stay in position as they are ranged so a player using Ebon V Standard of Honour will get quite a lot of benefit from them.
Necro, Rits - yes all true, Death Magic is the way to go with the Nec and SoS is pretty much the balls.
mage767
Customize your heroes based on the following points:
1. Your profession: If melee, bring badass buffs for yourself, so you enjoy doing lots of crazy damage. Spec your heroes to take care of you, i.e. add those skills on heroes that you allow you to tank properly. Don't make me babysit you which these skills are. If you bring survival skill on your bar like the following abysmal ones: Defy pain, endure pain, then you are obviously not utilizing your war to full potential. The same goes for dervish with the abysmal forms (but some forms like Balthazar do have some uses...)
If caster, it is highly unlikely you will do crazy damage like a melee, but some casters can still do significant damage by going X/A and bringing Assassin's promise as elite, pretty much spamming sins+FH+PI or YMLD. Anyway, spec heroes (with whatever class you prefer) to do both damage and utility. Definitely bring a SoS hero or ST rit hero to absorb enemy damage/blocking. Melee heroes are just too dumb...unless you use sins who are properly protected and buffed.
If you are a para/ranger, aka midline, you got several options. I personally prefer buffed physicals and generally bring 1-2 other paragons/rangers + pets (for damage absorption) all nicely buffed with a MM nec w/splinter or a orders necro + barbs + MoP necro (for giggles).
If you can't think of anything ...in general, use discordway heroes as a caster, and sabway heroes as a physical. You won't be running an optimal build tailored for your main or to the area/mission you are playing, but at least you won't suck balls like a total newbie. Once you find out a build isn't working for your heroes, it's time to change them. Discord/sabway is good for starters and generally works in most areas, but neither is a complete hero solution. You have 20+ heroes of various professions, experiment and learn.
2. Enemy type: If most enemies leave corpses behind, then bring MM heroes. Against elementals, use armor ignoring spirit damage (i.e. just use spirits) and spirit protection. Against undead, always try to spec more in holy damage (bring judge's insight support for your war). Shield of judgement smite monk heros rape undead, SoO included NM or HM. Against the newer War in kryta or the stone summit slavers balanced enemy teams, bring a balanced hero team which uses corpses, spirits, as well as a panic mesmer. Chipping in a frozen soil on the mesmer isn't a bad idea to prevent those annoying resses. Go in, nuke their shit with your main and end the fight in seconds. That's how pros do it.
1. Your profession: If melee, bring badass buffs for yourself, so you enjoy doing lots of crazy damage. Spec your heroes to take care of you, i.e. add those skills on heroes that you allow you to tank properly. Don't make me babysit you which these skills are. If you bring survival skill on your bar like the following abysmal ones: Defy pain, endure pain, then you are obviously not utilizing your war to full potential. The same goes for dervish with the abysmal forms (but some forms like Balthazar do have some uses...)
If caster, it is highly unlikely you will do crazy damage like a melee, but some casters can still do significant damage by going X/A and bringing Assassin's promise as elite, pretty much spamming sins+FH+PI or YMLD. Anyway, spec heroes (with whatever class you prefer) to do both damage and utility. Definitely bring a SoS hero or ST rit hero to absorb enemy damage/blocking. Melee heroes are just too dumb...unless you use sins who are properly protected and buffed.
If you are a para/ranger, aka midline, you got several options. I personally prefer buffed physicals and generally bring 1-2 other paragons/rangers + pets (for damage absorption) all nicely buffed with a MM nec w/splinter or a orders necro + barbs + MoP necro (for giggles).
If you can't think of anything ...in general, use discordway heroes as a caster, and sabway heroes as a physical. You won't be running an optimal build tailored for your main or to the area/mission you are playing, but at least you won't suck balls like a total newbie. Once you find out a build isn't working for your heroes, it's time to change them. Discord/sabway is good for starters and generally works in most areas, but neither is a complete hero solution. You have 20+ heroes of various professions, experiment and learn.
2. Enemy type: If most enemies leave corpses behind, then bring MM heroes. Against elementals, use armor ignoring spirit damage (i.e. just use spirits) and spirit protection. Against undead, always try to spec more in holy damage (bring judge's insight support for your war). Shield of judgement smite monk heros rape undead, SoO included NM or HM. Against the newer War in kryta or the stone summit slavers balanced enemy teams, bring a balanced hero team which uses corpses, spirits, as well as a panic mesmer. Chipping in a frozen soil on the mesmer isn't a bad idea to prevent those annoying resses. Go in, nuke their shit with your main and end the fight in seconds. That's how pros do it.
Tripolityx
I agreed AND disagreed on many of your opinions. There isn't really much for me to say on this post than it really cleared my own vision of using my heroes now. I would like to thank you for that =P
Luminarus
Best hero damage builds:
Me and a mate just rolled through the entire pve game NM without even paying attention with the following builds:
1x RoJ Monk, 1x UA monk, SoS rit, SoGM rit (necro primary for emanagement, also had order of pain coz we were both using physicals), Minion Bomber, PI Mesmer. With stuff held in place on the minion wall, kd'd from the PI and getting blown apart by RoJ we steamrolled it. In terms of damage, the classes I wouldnt bother with are physical heroes, and eles. Some of the mesmer skills can do quite nice damage, and shutdown. CoF is awesome now, chaos storm isnt that awesome, but it does add up to decent aoe damage. Necros like always are gods. Spirits are OP. RoJ is the best nuke in the game, i dare anyone to disagree.
So yeah hope this helps.
EDIT: as a caster, running 2 barrage heroes, or volley heroes can be allright if you put great dwarf weapon on them. AoE KD never goes astray.
Me and a mate just rolled through the entire pve game NM without even paying attention with the following builds:
1x RoJ Monk, 1x UA monk, SoS rit, SoGM rit (necro primary for emanagement, also had order of pain coz we were both using physicals), Minion Bomber, PI Mesmer. With stuff held in place on the minion wall, kd'd from the PI and getting blown apart by RoJ we steamrolled it. In terms of damage, the classes I wouldnt bother with are physical heroes, and eles. Some of the mesmer skills can do quite nice damage, and shutdown. CoF is awesome now, chaos storm isnt that awesome, but it does add up to decent aoe damage. Necros like always are gods. Spirits are OP. RoJ is the best nuke in the game, i dare anyone to disagree.
So yeah hope this helps.
EDIT: as a caster, running 2 barrage heroes, or volley heroes can be allright if you put great dwarf weapon on them. AoE KD never goes astray.
onerabbit
i run to Mm bombers now, and Tbh most times they both have over 5 minions, and its brilliant when they both have ten, i think its worth it, i use discord mm with some resto
so il most probably keep 2 mm when we get 7 heroes
so il most probably keep 2 mm when we get 7 heroes
Xenomortis
After the Rits and Nec MM, it's a little desolate.
If you're a physical and don't mind micro, then a Curses Nec can put out a lot of damage with Mark of Pain and still have space for good utility stuff.
Eles can either run Invoke/Chain Air builds (you could cut Invoke for BSurge but I don't think that's worth the damage loss) or some sort of Fire build. Dual Attunements with stuff like Rodgort's works ok, or just stick to Searing Flames spam.
Earth is alright, but Fire is better for raw damage.
An Esurge Dom Mesmer has potential - it's a fair bit of damage for one skill and it's recharge is reduced by FC. The template can also include a fair amount of disruption (and stuff like Mistrust packs nice damage too).
All these builds do though is take what we have for henchmen and just improve their builds without changing anything fundamentally. Still, that's not a bad start.
If you're a physical and don't mind micro, then a Curses Nec can put out a lot of damage with Mark of Pain and still have space for good utility stuff.
Eles can either run Invoke/Chain Air builds (you could cut Invoke for BSurge but I don't think that's worth the damage loss) or some sort of Fire build. Dual Attunements with stuff like Rodgort's works ok, or just stick to Searing Flames spam.
Earth is alright, but Fire is better for raw damage.
An Esurge Dom Mesmer has potential - it's a fair bit of damage for one skill and it's recharge is reduced by FC. The template can also include a fair amount of disruption (and stuff like Mistrust packs nice damage too).
All these builds do though is take what we have for henchmen and just improve their builds without changing anything fundamentally. Still, that's not a bad start.
Daesu
There are many good points in this thread.
- For rits, usual spiritway channeling and communing rits with SoGM and Painful bond.
- For necros, Fiends + MoP. If you micro MoP casting, and can direct your fiends to attack a particular enemy, this makes good damage.
- For monks, RoJ brings good damage if you have good crowd control.
- For Eles, Savannah Heat brings good damage, but again, crowd control.
- For rangers, Incendiary arrow and ignite arrows deal good damage especially with Splinter. Not sure how well ranger heroes use them though.
- For rits, usual spiritway channeling and communing rits with SoGM and Painful bond.
- For necros, Fiends + MoP. If you micro MoP casting, and can direct your fiends to attack a particular enemy, this makes good damage.
- For monks, RoJ brings good damage if you have good crowd control.
- For Eles, Savannah Heat brings good damage, but again, crowd control.
- For rangers, Incendiary arrow and ignite arrows deal good damage especially with Splinter. Not sure how well ranger heroes use them though.
Jeydra
@Daesu - I'll give the Incendiary Arrows Ranger a try probably ... eventually.
Anyone with experience either with hero Mesmers or player Mesmers can tell me:
1. Is Aneurysm worth bringing in PvE? I'm guessing that it is because given the rate PvE monsters use energy it shouldn't be that long before they burn 30 energy and you can hit them for 100 damage (5s cooldown too!). However ... not going to be effective on Warriors / Rangers etc. Does the AI cheat enough / is it smart enough to use Aneurysm only on those who are vulnerable to it?
2. Is Backfire worth bringing in PvE? What about Empathy? Chaos Storm?
3. Does Overload + Shatter Delusions work?
4. Is it possible to get Wastrel's Worry to trigger often in PvE? What about Wastrel's Demise, how many points of damage does that stack? How much do Panic-supported Wastrel's spells do? I'm guessing this is area-dependent because you can't stop stances, shouts etc from activating with interrupts / KDs / Panic etc, but assuming the area has none of these, how much do the Wastrel's spells do?
5. Does the AI use Shatter Hex for damage, or for hex removal? According to Cebe's guide to using heroes here on this forum, it's for damage - anyone confirm (that guide is so old ...)?
6. Are there any other competitive options to straight-out Domination Magic for damage? Maybe something based on Fevered Dreams, Ineptitude (I doubt this one) or Keystone Signet?
In other words, if I care nothing about defense / utility / interrupts etc, and if I cannot use PvE skills, which Mesmer bar has the highest damage output?
Anyone with experience either with hero Mesmers or player Mesmers can tell me:
1. Is Aneurysm worth bringing in PvE? I'm guessing that it is because given the rate PvE monsters use energy it shouldn't be that long before they burn 30 energy and you can hit them for 100 damage (5s cooldown too!). However ... not going to be effective on Warriors / Rangers etc. Does the AI cheat enough / is it smart enough to use Aneurysm only on those who are vulnerable to it?
2. Is Backfire worth bringing in PvE? What about Empathy? Chaos Storm?
3. Does Overload + Shatter Delusions work?
4. Is it possible to get Wastrel's Worry to trigger often in PvE? What about Wastrel's Demise, how many points of damage does that stack? How much do Panic-supported Wastrel's spells do? I'm guessing this is area-dependent because you can't stop stances, shouts etc from activating with interrupts / KDs / Panic etc, but assuming the area has none of these, how much do the Wastrel's spells do?
5. Does the AI use Shatter Hex for damage, or for hex removal? According to Cebe's guide to using heroes here on this forum, it's for damage - anyone confirm (that guide is so old ...)?
6. Are there any other competitive options to straight-out Domination Magic for damage? Maybe something based on Fevered Dreams, Ineptitude (I doubt this one) or Keystone Signet?
In other words, if I care nothing about defense / utility / interrupts etc, and if I cannot use PvE skills, which Mesmer bar has the highest damage output?
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
B. W, D, A, R, P, and N are all pretty much impossible to get good damage on.
C. Not sure on how the AI uses this skill.
Quote: 2. Is Backfire worth bringing in PvE? What about Empathy? Chaos Storm? A. Backfire and Empathy are reactive hexes that aren't worth bringing in general. The fact that we're talking about a hero doesn't improve the case for them.
B. In fact it makes it worse because the hero will put them on your current target, almost guaranteeing the hex doesn't stick around long.
C. Chaos Storm does a pretty fair amount of armor-ignoring damage now, and the monster AI is slow to move out of it. Not sure if it's worth it on a hero bar given the recharge though. (Player can AP it to avoid the recharge.)
Quote: 3. Does Overload + Shatter Delusions work? It does, but I'm not sure if the hero AI gets it.
Quote:
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4. Is it possible to get Wastrel's Worry to trigger often in PvE? What about Wastrel's Demise, how many points of damage does that stack? How much do Panic-supported Wastrel's spells do? I'm guessing this is area-dependent because you can't stop stances, shouts etc from activating with interrupts / KDs / Panic etc, but assuming the area has none of these, how much do the Wastrel's spells do?
A. It does a ton of damage. B. It's hard to make it go off reliably without really camping the target with interrupts/KD. Panic, dazed, and Arcane Conundrum help too. C. Anything with attack skills is going to prove hard to score damage on. Quote:
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but could easily be We Shall Return or whatever) was surprisingly good for my playstyle. SS, barbs, rigor mortis, enfeebling blood, rip enchantment, SoLS, plus para command skills.