Who is the strongest villain/hero/God base on the story?
My friend and I were talking about, based on story who is the strongest? I thought obviously a God. But he raised the point that it took 16 people party to take out Kuvie and 12 party for Urgoz and Deep. And a standard party to defeat a dungeon/boss is 8. So what are your inputs on it?
Strongest in Guild Wars
RCyberW
RedDog91
If anything, Duncan the Black is the most difficult non-god boss to defeat.
Dhuum is hardest god to defeat, but thats not saying much since at the moment we can only fight 2 former gods.
Dhuum is hardest god to defeat, but thats not saying much since at the moment we can only fight 2 former gods.
Celestina
Story wise Dhuum, since defeating him only means putting him back to sleep.
Zodiac Meteor
Dhuum, although a built UW team can easily take him down. Being careless and not watching DP = GG
But it takes FOREVER to get that red bar up, seriously... wtf? It's an endurance match.
Duncan the Black is easy, he just summons a billion spirits because he is hax0r.
But it takes FOREVER to get that red bar up, seriously... wtf? It's an endurance match.
Duncan the Black is easy, he just summons a billion spirits because he is hax0r.
Rumi The Poet
dhuum has never died and can even come to claim you in towns and outposts in your not a good lil boy or girl. if dhuum were to fight 1v1 any boss in GW there is no doubt in my mind who would win.. the pink elephant everytime.
Maver1ck87
In theory, abaddon, but u fight him in a weakened state.... in practise.... i reckon dhuum would get rolled by shiro cos of battle scars = gg. And infact, shiro would pretty much roll any of the other bosses thats my view anyways
RCyberW
Sorry maybe I didn't make it clear, but strongest according to story. Since for Kuvie story wise you need 16 ppl to weaken her to snap her out. But for Duhmm, which most ppl seems to agree that "killing" him just puts him to sleep. And there's Abby who we fought in a weakened state. Any other inputs are welcomed ^^
Masmar
Any of the gods can just smush you with their hand so them.
Konig Des Todes
Please keep mechanics out of this - this includes functions of skills and party sizes. This is the lore forum, not Explorer's.
Anyways, as to the OP's question: In lore, Abaddon is the strongest. He is able to easily win when fighting against two gods on his own according to lore. Dhuum would probably be next in line, since he isn't killable, but being killed != being the strongest, so that's hard to say.
In both cases, we fight them in weakened states - where they're strong enough to just break free of their imprisonments- and we also got aid ("blessings" from the gods' avatars against Abaddon (sure there's no mechanic showing it, but that doesn't mean the case is the same for lore), and then the aid of the seven reapers). So what we fight probably isn't even half of the full strength, and we got aid at that.
I enjoy the thought that doing /dance in front of Abaddon removes the blessings the gods' avatars gave the PCs and hero/henchies, allowing Abaddon to instantly kill.
Anyways, as to the OP's question: In lore, Abaddon is the strongest. He is able to easily win when fighting against two gods on his own according to lore. Dhuum would probably be next in line, since he isn't killable, but being killed != being the strongest, so that's hard to say.
In both cases, we fight them in weakened states - where they're strong enough to just break free of their imprisonments- and we also got aid ("blessings" from the gods' avatars against Abaddon (sure there's no mechanic showing it, but that doesn't mean the case is the same for lore), and then the aid of the seven reapers). So what we fight probably isn't even half of the full strength, and we got aid at that.
I enjoy the thought that doing /dance in front of Abaddon removes the blessings the gods' avatars gave the PCs and hero/henchies, allowing Abaddon to instantly kill.
Masmar
Dhuum isn't "not killable." It's just grenth wasn't strong enough, and since he wasn't, neither are you
Konig Des Todes
And I wonder why Grenth wasn't strong enough. 
Though that is a good point: Was Dhuum merely re-imprisoned due to him unable to be killed (as Dhuum claims), or is it to show that the PCs and Reapers were only able to weaken him?
Though that is a good point: Was Dhuum merely re-imprisoned due to him unable to be killed (as Dhuum claims), or is it to show that the PCs and Reapers were only able to weaken him?
Markus Clouser
Interesting, I remember posting here. Seems like my post 'vanished'.
Let's try that again.
I believe Dhuum is, because even if he's imprisoned in The Underworld he can still show up in ANY place killing the.. uhm, lorewise...lorewise, the sinners!
Let's try that again.
I believe Dhuum is, because even if he's imprisoned in The Underworld he can still show up in ANY place killing the.. uhm, lorewise...lorewise, the sinners!
Konig Des Todes
Was deleted because it wasn't discussing lore but rather mechanics (banning). The showing up anywhere to ban (even if you say for sinners, which wouldn't be right - we got lore this year of Dhuum hunting down those who "cheat death") is not lore.
reaper with no name
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Please keep mechanics out of this - this includes functions of skills and party sizes. This is the lore forum, not Explorer's.
Anyways, as to the OP's question: In lore, Abaddon is the strongest. He is able to easily win when fighting against two gods on his own according to lore. Dhuum would probably be next in line, since he isn't killable, but being killed != being the strongest, so that's hard to say. In both cases, we fight them in weakened states - where they're strong enough to just break free of their imprisonments- and we also got aid ("blessings" from the gods' avatars against Abaddon (sure there's no mechanic showing it, but that doesn't mean the case is the same for lore), and then the aid of the seven reapers). So what we fight probably isn't even half of the full strength, and we got aid at that. I enjoy the thought that doing /dance in front of Abaddon removes the blessings the gods' avatars gave the PCs and hero/henchies, allowing Abaddon to instantly kill. |
And are we really sure Dhuum can't be killed? It was said that Grenth couldn't kill him, but at that point Grenth wasn't even the god of death. Plus, we all know what happens when you try to kill a god without being a mortal...
Konig Des Todes
Whether he fought two gods - and which - doesn't matter. Official lore states he was able to defeat two gods in a 2v1 match.
And Abaddon only has Margonites (the demons don't seem aligned with any god and merely fight for those who's causing chaos - hence why we see dryders serve Dhuum, Abaddon, and no one - Titans are Dhuum's, as they're created by the Fury who's Dhuum's servant).
Really? Have we ever saw a non-mortal kill a god? Do we even know that the PC was right when s/he said that Abaddon's power was going to destroy everything, or was it just looking like it would. The PC's are not omnipotent and has never witnessed what would of happened otherwise - it might have slowly dissipated for all our knowledge.
We've seen one situation where a mortal replaced a god by taking the god's power after the god's death, with the opinion of one human. This doesn't make it absolute, just the only observed situation.
And Abaddon only has Margonites (the demons don't seem aligned with any god and merely fight for those who's causing chaos - hence why we see dryders serve Dhuum, Abaddon, and no one - Titans are Dhuum's, as they're created by the Fury who's Dhuum's servant).
Quote:
| Plus, we all know what happens when you try to kill a god without being a mortal... |
We've seen one situation where a mortal replaced a god by taking the god's power after the god's death, with the opinion of one human. This doesn't make it absolute, just the only observed situation.
reaper with no name
If the demons serve whoever is causing chaos, that still makes them servants of Abaddon and Dhuum (who happen to be allies).
Besides, having tons of Margonites is a lot more than any of the other gods seem to have going for them.
If we are to assume that the PCs were wrong, and that it wasn't necessary for someone to replace Abaddon, then why did the Gods more or less tell Kormir to do so? We have nothing else to go on except to assume that Abaddon's death was going to destroy the world. Otherwise we might as well start assuming that Abaddon was never really a threat to the world in the first place (after all, did the Gods ever say he was? No, the mortals said he was).
Besides, having tons of Margonites is a lot more than any of the other gods seem to have going for them.
If we are to assume that the PCs were wrong, and that it wasn't necessary for someone to replace Abaddon, then why did the Gods more or less tell Kormir to do so? We have nothing else to go on except to assume that Abaddon's death was going to destroy the world. Otherwise we might as well start assuming that Abaddon was never really a threat to the world in the first place (after all, did the Gods ever say he was? No, the mortals said he was).
Konig Des Todes
Servants during Nightfall, not during the war where Abaddon was capable of defeating two gods.
Balthazar has an army of Eternals, which is only recently small due to traitorous and corrupted Eternals.
It might be that the gods want there to always be a replacement. But it's possible that the energy wasn't going to destroy both the Realm of Torment and Tyria while still being harmful.
As to Abaddon being a threat or not - the question is whether it was intentional or unintentional, but he was a threat to Tyria. By siding with the demons, sending minions to corrupt Khilbron and Shiro (corrupt and rule/weaken the world not simply open up ways to free him), it is highly likely he was intentionally threatening Tyria. After all, he could very well have been trying to do more than just break free - that is, trying to take control over Tyria, as he did prior to his fall.
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
Besides, having tons of Margonites is a lot more than any of the other gods seem to have going for them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
If we are to assume that the PCs were wrong, and that it wasn't necessary for someone to replace Abaddon, then why did the Gods more or less tell Kormir to do so? We have nothing else to go on except to assume that Abaddon's death was going to destroy the world. Otherwise we might as well start assuming that Abaddon was never really a threat to the world in the first place (after all, did the Gods ever say he was? No, the mortals said he was).
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As to Abaddon being a threat or not - the question is whether it was intentional or unintentional, but he was a threat to Tyria. By siding with the demons, sending minions to corrupt Khilbron and Shiro (corrupt and rule/weaken the world not simply open up ways to free him), it is highly likely he was intentionally threatening Tyria. After all, he could very well have been trying to do more than just break free - that is, trying to take control over Tyria, as he did prior to his fall.
Mini Norn
Dhuum doesn't stay at a constant strength, but grows stronger with each death in the Underworld. For that, I'm going to say Dhuum..
hahahi20
but there's that dino boss, Mobrin, Lord of the Marsh he hits 528 with power attack, i think he is the most strong
Konig Des Todes
That's mechanics, hahahi. Mechanics is not lore.
Pony Slaystation
I would have to concur that from a lore standpoint, Dhuum would probably be the most powerful, since even in a full party of 8 people, and the help of all the reapers, all that can be done is putting him back to sleep. Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but the quest dialogues say nothing about how long Dhuum would be put back to sleep after we confront him. I guess at this point we could merge the lore and mechanics of the game to say that every time we enter the Underworld, Dhuum awakens once again, and therefore there is a constant struggle just to keep him dormant, let alone actually kill him.
It also seems that from the lore, the Great Destroyer could also be viewed as being extremely powerful, supposedly being hand-picked by Primordus, perhaps soon to be one of the most powerful creatures ever, as his/her general. If Primordus is as powerful as the lore suggests, he or she could have picked Shiro, the Lich Lord, possibly even Dhuum or Abaddon as the right-hand man. Remember, the power of the elder dragons is said to rival that of the gods, so if they really are that strong, recruiting a fallen god could be feasible, especially since it could help said god to regain lost power. The fact that Primordus selected the Great Destroyer says something about the power it has. Also, as with Dhuum, it could be possible that the Great Destroyer has recently come out of a dormant state, and therefore may not be using the full potential of his/her power at the time we actually confront him/her in game.
It also seems that from the lore, the Great Destroyer could also be viewed as being extremely powerful, supposedly being hand-picked by Primordus, perhaps soon to be one of the most powerful creatures ever, as his/her general. If Primordus is as powerful as the lore suggests, he or she could have picked Shiro, the Lich Lord, possibly even Dhuum or Abaddon as the right-hand man. Remember, the power of the elder dragons is said to rival that of the gods, so if they really are that strong, recruiting a fallen god could be feasible, especially since it could help said god to regain lost power. The fact that Primordus selected the Great Destroyer says something about the power it has. Also, as with Dhuum, it could be possible that the Great Destroyer has recently come out of a dormant state, and therefore may not be using the full potential of his/her power at the time we actually confront him/her in game.
Konig Des Todes
The 2010 dialogue versions of the 09 Halloween quests have stated that Dhuum is constantly re-awakening.
Pony Slaystation
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
The 2010 dialogue versions of the 09 Halloween quests have stated that Dhuum is constantly re-awakening.
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But anyways, this is a little bit off topic.... but since Dhuum hates those who "cheat death", why doesn't he hate himself? Cheating death is essentially what he is doing every time he is fought in the Underworld...
Konig Des Todes
Technically, he isn't, as he is never nearly killed nor is the objective to kill him. Cheating death most likely refers to those who are resurrected or are undead, but could be referring to those who just barely escape death.
And considering his elite minions are skeletons, he most likely is a hypocrite.
And considering his elite minions are skeletons, he most likely is a hypocrite.