Since the other Costume Brawl 2010 thread has been dominated by discussion about the random team composition format, we can't really have any discussion about costume brawl combat itself.
I thought it would be wise to separate that out to its own thread.
So here is a thread for you to discuss balance and strategy with this year's costume brawl.
I don't particularly like the newest map. It seems like the best path to go from one of the morale shrines to the battle cry is through the other team's base. It seems too easy to camp the ressing of people. The random lava lake is also kinda pointless. It restricts space, but there is never a reason for somebody to go there (unlike other maps with lava or ice which occasionally there is a reason to travel on them). It might as well just be a bottomless chasm that people can't walk into.
Costume Brawl, Balance and Strategy
HawkofStorms
Warvic
I actually like ths simplicity of the new map. But i can see it flaws. Because in a 5v5 fight at the center shrine, the winner will basically be the match winner. And with only 3 shrines, it's not the most exciting and tactical map ^^
My favorite map is "Whitefury Rapids". I really like the setting and the map itself.
My favorite map is "Whitefury Rapids". I really like the setting and the map itself.
Ninja Dude
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
I don't particularly like the newest map. It seems like the best path to go from one of the morale shrines to the battle cry is through the other team's base. It seems too easy to camp the ressing of people. The random lava lake is also kinda pointless. It restricts space, but there is never a reason for somebody to go there (unlike other maps with lava or ice which occasionally there is a reason to travel on them). It might as well just be a bottomless chasm that people can't walk into.
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I don't really see how the lava will be useful in future years if there's no plague sending though.
ilr
Played Rit thru 10 victories... enjoyed it and would definitely play a lotta 5v5 in Gw2 if it'll be anything like this.
It was fun to play and even more fun to raeg about and I caused more than my fair share of turnovers when I had another ally to work with so Rit felt really solid overall. Opposing melees seemed to ignore me an awful lot which is a relief b/c none of my teammates ever tried to stop the ones that did go after me.
Only 2 complaints: everytime I tried to work side by side with a Monk, we lost. I dunno what's going on there but I'm used to Monks & Rits being force multipliers and it just never panned out. Why is that? Also, that one map where everyone just clumps together at the same shrine b/c it's not symetrical and had only 3 cap points... Yeah I don't like that one either and it didn't feel like a healthy victory most of the time we actually did win it.
It was fun to play and even more fun to raeg about and I caused more than my fair share of turnovers when I had another ally to work with so Rit felt really solid overall. Opposing melees seemed to ignore me an awful lot which is a relief b/c none of my teammates ever tried to stop the ones that did go after me.
Only 2 complaints: everytime I tried to work side by side with a Monk, we lost. I dunno what's going on there but I'm used to Monks & Rits being force multipliers and it just never panned out. Why is that? Also, that one map where everyone just clumps together at the same shrine b/c it's not symetrical and had only 3 cap points... Yeah I don't like that one either and it didn't feel like a healthy victory most of the time we actually did win it.
hitsuji182
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Originally Posted by ilr
Played Rit thru 10 victories... enjoyed it and would definitely play a lotta 5v5 in Gw2 if it'll be anything like this.
It was fun to play and even more fun to raeg about and I caused more than my fair share of turnovers when I had another ally to work with so Rit felt really solid overall. Opposing melees seemed to ignore me an awful lot which is a relief b/c none of my teammates ever tried to stop the ones that did go after me. Only 2 complaints: everytime I tried to work side by side with a Monk, we lost. I dunno what's going on there but I'm used to Monks & Rits being force multipliers and it just never panned out. Why is that? Also, that one map where everyone just clumps together at the same shrine b/c it's not symetrical and had only 3 cap points... Yeah I don't like that one either and it didn't feel like a healthy victory most of the time we actually did win it. |
I dislike new map too. It's too small, not really much to do than 5vs5 at battlecry. If you win first battle you probably win the whole game. Although method in Kysten Shore is similar, this map is so much cooler.
Lhim
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Originally Posted by ilr
Only 2 complaints: everytime I tried to work side by side with a Monk, we lost. I dunno what's going on there but I'm used to Monks & Rits being force multipliers and it just never panned out. Why is that? Also, that one map where everyone just clumps together at the same shrine b/c it's not symetrical and had only 3 cap points... Yeah I don't like that one either and it didn't feel like a healthy victory most of the time we actually did win it.
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Despite what some other people are claiming in other threads, tactics isn't that much of a problem. I see most people willing to follow the pings/lines and target calls.
I'm also not very fond of the new map; being too small and all. But the lava/plague sending is pretty cool!
mrmango
Plague Sending + lava = kinda creative. I feel derp for not thinking of that.
Morphy
I've played Ranger exclusively yesterday, had a lot of fun trolling physical classes. That time I kept 2 warriors and a dervish busy without them even being able to deal damage to me was especially lolzy.
Meridon
Ranger seems to be this year's assassin. Though they really become bad when it's either a necro or a mesmer hexing you, or a monk on your team giving you Healing Breeze. In fact, Monks and Rangers don't synergize at all this year. Anything a monk can do for a Ranger (regen+condition removal), he can pretty much do it himself better.
In big numbers though, rangers are king. For balance purposes, I'd say they should nerf the ranger bar just a wee bit. Maybe Dodge over Natural Stride, Ignite over Kindle arrows, or Dual Shot over Forked Arrow.
In big numbers though, rangers are king. For balance purposes, I'd say they should nerf the ranger bar just a wee bit. Maybe Dodge over Natural Stride, Ignite over Kindle arrows, or Dual Shot over Forked Arrow.
Morphy
Meh, it's Pin Down that makes them really strong. Being able to outrun pretty much everyone is very, very strong.
drkn
98% of teams need BC to win safely. Also always call targets. Avoid killing paragons unless they're the last ones standing. Don't leave/resign unless it's 15+/6-.
Kysten - cap BC and move to the center. Move as a mob. If the opposite team already capped the center, that's nothing, just kill them one by one.
Whitefury - cap BC and roll them on the way. Move as a mob or split if the opposite team splits. React accordingly.
Plikkup - cap Health shrine and BC. Move as a mob. Respond to enemy's positioning and splitting. Remember that if you control BC, you want to hunt them down and keep the pressure.
Deepway - rush to BC and win the fight over it in the first place. Stay at BC and kill anyone coming. If they avoid you, leave someone at BC (ranger, rit, mes, monk, para) and hunt down the morale cappers.
In 1v1 combat:
Ele beats sin and war, has high chance to beat derv, high/moderate to beat ranger and para.
Mes beats ele and monk, has moderate chance to beat anything with ranger being the hardest.
Remember that your weapons retain modifications other than health and energy - high def set proves highly useful. Rune your armor accordingly.
Kysten - cap BC and move to the center. Move as a mob. If the opposite team already capped the center, that's nothing, just kill them one by one.
Whitefury - cap BC and roll them on the way. Move as a mob or split if the opposite team splits. React accordingly.
Plikkup - cap Health shrine and BC. Move as a mob. Respond to enemy's positioning and splitting. Remember that if you control BC, you want to hunt them down and keep the pressure.
Deepway - rush to BC and win the fight over it in the first place. Stay at BC and kill anyone coming. If they avoid you, leave someone at BC (ranger, rit, mes, monk, para) and hunt down the morale cappers.
In 1v1 combat:
Ele beats sin and war, has high chance to beat derv, high/moderate to beat ranger and para.
Mes beats ele and monk, has moderate chance to beat anything with ranger being the hardest.
Remember that your weapons retain modifications other than health and energy - high def set proves highly useful. Rune your armor accordingly.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Morphy
Meh, it's Pin Down that makes them really strong. Being able to outrun pretty much everyone is very, very strong.
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Lest121
I hate pin down, ranger is powerful this year, my sin is weaker, and after 5 hours I got bored and have played CB since Friday....
Killed u man
Ranger is pretty much the new sin, lol. Not going to explain the obvious, but ye. By nerfing the Sin, they've simply relocated the problem, because now the ranger has, by far, the most overal bar. Lacks some damage compared to the old palm strike, but is still the most powerfull one.
Warvic
I played mostly ranger, but i also played with the Warrior. Today. i started to play with the ele, they r also pretty strong.
@Drkn. how can eles beat rangers? with my ranger i never lost against a ele 1v1. you have antidote signet to remove blind, savage shot to rupt strong spells and troll unguent for healing.
@Drkn. how can eles beat rangers? with my ranger i never lost against a ele 1v1. you have antidote signet to remove blind, savage shot to rupt strong spells and troll unguent for healing.
afya
ranger has good bar, but not THAT powerful providing they have the slowest/slowest casting heal. For balancing, I think removing the signet will do.
sin isn't tooooo bad as many think. they probably is the best 1 on vs melee (no snaring)
sin isn't tooooo bad as many think. they probably is the best 1 on vs melee (no snaring)
drkn
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| @Drkn. how can eles beat rangers? with my ranger i never lost against a ele 1v1. you have antidote signet to remove blind, savage shot to rupt strong spells and troll unguent for healing. |
It's much harder to cope with a ranger than with sin or war, but an ele can keep him disabled for long enough to avoid being damaged while still dealing damage - Antidote Signet takes time, Troll Unguent takes time. When crippled, Windborne Speed lets you cope with the impaired moving speed.
Add kiting, high armor set... and when the ranger starts to run away for any reason (knockdowns, blind, sheer damage), he's mine unless he managed to SShot my LSurge before fleeing.
Not saying it's 100% win situation - SShot may be painful, my Attunement may be on recharge if i used it just before the last death. Ranger simply is the new sin, too imbalanced when compared to other builds this year. Yet still, if i were to choose who to use against ranger in 1v1 it'd be ele or necro, with having more experience with the former.
To balance out the ranger's superiority this year, it'd be enough to swap Pin Down for something else and swap Antidote Signet for another cond-removal skill (no idea if rangers have anything else, to be honest, but AS is too powerful and spammable in the current overall CB format).
ilr
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Originally Posted by Morphy
Meh, it's Pin Down that makes them really strong. Being able to outrun pretty much everyone is very, very strong.
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Once it lands, it's impossible to remove it b/c they just keep spamming more conditions on top of the crippling. /// though this is more of a failure on the UI & Engine itself to allow us to pick and choose which conditions & hexes we want to remove first ....saying that cover conditions are overpowered is as old as the game itself so I don't need to go there.
Warvic
@Drkn. Ah i noticed that it's really helpfull to rupt the ele's elite with SS. That way they only have whirlwind for a KD, wich can easily be evaded by escape etc. (and still have antidote incase).
But yeh i can see how eles can also win. Fakecasting etc. shud help alot.
But yeh i can see how eles can also win. Fakecasting etc. shud help alot.
Lhim
I'm kinda shocked (even at CB) that most Rits hardly use their weapon spells, and if they do they usually use it on themselves...
headlesshobbs
I learned that sins can still be semi-tank if you balance their strikes while keeping shadow refuge up and running. It takes practice, but this while equipping zeal dags just makes them deathly powerful. I'm still getting in grips with the ranger in some parts, but tank, dmg, and antidote really do make the best balance. Keeping fingers 1-5 and clicks on the rest is key.
Now the new map I'm seeing that if you send 4 hardliners to center, at least having 1 person to cap both moral will head up long term scoring because that builds when you get back with your group and if you're a good spiker, you can take out stragglers 1v1 before they take the shrines away from you. Opposing teams will often split/run off because of this and that's what makes em easy for your group to suddenly just change strategy to pick them off.
Now the new map I'm seeing that if you send 4 hardliners to center, at least having 1 person to cap both moral will head up long term scoring because that builds when you get back with your group and if you're a good spiker, you can take out stragglers 1v1 before they take the shrines away from you. Opposing teams will often split/run off because of this and that's what makes em easy for your group to suddenly just change strategy to pick them off.
Star_Jewel
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Originally Posted by Lhim
I'm kinda shocked (even at CB) that most Rits hardly use their weapon spells, and if they do they usually use it on themselves...
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Chocobo1
For the entire duration of Costume Brawl this year, I have never got a nightmare weapon put on me as a Warrior or Ranger. Depressing times.
ilr
That's a drag to hear. I was spamming the heck out of the weapon spells.
...Blame SoS. Most rits in this event were likely PvE'ers who don't know WUT DO without an SoS build.
Personally I found Ess-strike the most useless skill b/c I rarely got low on energy despite the Weap spell spamming... I woulda prefered just about anything to it, especially another Condition counter.
...Blame SoS. Most rits in this event were likely PvE'ers who don't know WUT DO without an SoS build.
Personally I found Ess-strike the most useless skill b/c I rarely got low on energy despite the Weap spell spamming... I woulda prefered just about anything to it, especially another Condition counter.
afya
haha, im doing the opposite. I'm not a rit person, and I realise myself using weapon spells all the time and not those damage skills. I found myself easier to die as a rit than a derv XD
Perfected Shadow
Nothing better than 5 rangers. 2 x 5 forked arrows = your liek pewpewpew and they're like qqq.
And orly? eles have a chance 1v1 against a ranger? I just put up troll unguent and it outheals their garbage damage. I've tried it against one, I didn't attack, just put on a shield set and kept up troll unguent vs an ele. They ran out of energy.
Also if the enemy team has 3+ mesmers and yours doesn't, it's autowin for you.
And orly? eles have a chance 1v1 against a ranger? I just put up troll unguent and it outheals their garbage damage. I've tried it against one, I didn't attack, just put on a shield set and kept up troll unguent vs an ele. They ran out of energy.
Also if the enemy team has 3+ mesmers and yours doesn't, it's autowin for you.
Horus Moonlight
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Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow
And orly? eles have a chance 1v1 against a ranger? I just put up troll unguent and it outheals their garbage damage. I've tried it against one, I didn't attack, just put on a shield set and kept up troll unguent vs an ele. They ran out of energy.
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drkn
Or you just stumbled upon a retarded ele wasting time and energy on a ranger with shield set. Most rangers just run away from me after a while 
Adding to EvR compendium: stay out of line of sight for as long as you can. Make him come close to you, so you can use Whirlwind, or he won't be able to hit you.
Adding to EvR compendium: stay out of line of sight for as long as you can. Make him come close to you, so you can use Whirlwind, or he won't be able to hit you.
distilledwill
I've been playing ranger a fair bit over the past few days and I am really enjoying it - wailing on a monk and then quickly turning to the warrior and hitting Forked>Savage is fun like you wouldn't believe.
Morphy
I've also played Warrior now and to my surprise I found out I didn't have that much trouble surviving against Rangers 1v1, simply because you can always get Lion's Comfort through. After all, Rangers deal damage through their attack skills, meaning you can simply cast LC during that attack skill without risking it getting interrupted. So either Rangers will not be able to deal damage or they won't be able to stop the Warrior from healing.
I think that's it. Rangers can always get away from Elementalists, while the opposite isn't necessarily true. Eles simply don't have enough snare power to counteract Pin Down + Natural Stride + Savage Shot. Rangers are definitely gimped in this format, but they didn't lose their extremely powerful survivability.
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Originally Posted by drkn
Or you just stumbled upon a retarded ele wasting time and energy on a ranger with shield set. Most rangers just run away from me after a while
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Painbringer
I do get a kick out of watching elementalists using whirlwind next to nothing .... Get in there baby up close and personal. Also when you finish casting Lightning surge count 1 , 2 , Cast Ash blast. it works really well
Calculated risk is a fun one too on my mesmer bar just never used it before.
Necro is a spam fest
Calculated risk is a fun one too on my mesmer bar just never used it before.
Necro is a spam fest
JONO51
Ranger is strongest, but rit is the most fun to play imo. Had a small streak going aswell earlier, although randomising teams is awful.
distilledwill
I'm having a lot of fun with the ranger - but yesterday a monk accused me of botting when I interupted his Word of Censure. Which I thought was very odd - considering its a 1s cast skill and a blind tibetan monk could hit it.
Morphy
mrmango
Ranger spike = lol.
Cool story bro.
Cool story bro.
Silverblad3
Costume Brawl has turned into a C-Space Brawl. People not following called targets, cant backline, refuse to move out of combat if they are low on health, spamming stay together when you have wiped their team and can cap shrines close by and then getting called a noob. Rits who cannot apply weapon spells on other people, monks who dont heal or pre cast healing breeze.
Consecs are possible, but it generally boils down to who has the noobier team/more damage.
Strategy is wasted on people who cant follow instructions, english is not their first language or just want to KILL KILL KILL.
Seriously, it has just turned out to be a degenerate mindless free for all, which I guess is what a brawl is but this format could have been great for people who actually enjoyed it rather then the mindless folk who think they can farm ToTs or want Balth faction.
Grrrrrrrrr........
Silver
Consecs are possible, but it generally boils down to who has the noobier team/more damage.
Strategy is wasted on people who cant follow instructions, english is not their first language or just want to KILL KILL KILL.
Seriously, it has just turned out to be a degenerate mindless free for all, which I guess is what a brawl is but this format could have been great for people who actually enjoyed it rather then the mindless folk who think they can farm ToTs or want Balth faction.
Grrrrrrrrr........
Silver
drkn
Note: if you are being killed all the time, you seem to dish out much less damage than opponents of your class, seem to have problems with healing, can't utilise ALL your skills properly... then just change the class. Seriously. Even if you roll a ranger cause it's overpowered now, if you can't use it properly you just give points to the opposive team.
Not using weapon spells playing rit? Can't hit anyone with Spirit Rift? Roll something else.
Got used to spamming 1-2-3-4-5 as an ele? Wasting Whirlwind for nothing? Having trouble with timing your Ash Blast? Roll something else.
Rushing into the opponents, because you have your Healing Breeze on? Healing only yourself? Roll something else.
There's also one thing you HAVE TO learn if you want to play in ANY festival PvP format: kiting.
Not using weapon spells playing rit? Can't hit anyone with Spirit Rift? Roll something else.
Got used to spamming 1-2-3-4-5 as an ele? Wasting Whirlwind for nothing? Having trouble with timing your Ash Blast? Roll something else.
Rushing into the opponents, because you have your Healing Breeze on? Healing only yourself? Roll something else.
There's also one thing you HAVE TO learn if you want to play in ANY festival PvP format: kiting.
Aljasha
the new map is ok and if you are able to control the other two shrines (which boost your morale faster than the bc shrine) than you'll win. it is easier to turn the tide on this map than on the other one with only three shrines, because the two there, raise the morale by one bip each instead of two.
drkn
CB has officialy turned into RF - RangerFest.
Milennin
I wonder why people leave during matches they're losing. Don't you get penalized for leaving, and making you wait a long time before you can play again?