Dagger Build
Daeheru
So it's been a long time since I played my sin in PvE and I'm getting back into it. Because I didn't play PvE much with my sin, I don't have a whole lot available in terms of elites and PvE skills. Also, I just never got much experience with sins in PvE so I'm not sure what builds to use other than Moebius+Death Blossom. I also used WotA before but I never did PvE enough to actually get a real finished build going with it.
This is what I've got so far:
Dagger Mastery- 12+1+1
Shadow Arts- 3
Crit Strikes- 12+1
Critical Agility- I remember that this seemed to me to almost be a must in PvE
Jagged Strike- Low energy, short recharge, and bleeding.
Fox Fangs- Again, low energy, short recharge with a nice damage bonus.
Death Blossom- Shouldn't need to explain.
Moebius Strike (elite)- Like I said, I don't have many elites available and I don't want to waste time getting one if I'm not sure how well it works. I'm not saying this elite is trash, but I'd prefer something a little bit...more experienced playerish?
Crit Eye- Maintainable, long duration, low energy, extra energy when crit, and the obvious crit% boost.
Critical Defenses- Obvious reasons, although it would probably work better in a WotA build than this, but at this point I was running out of options.
Shadow Refuge- Again, ran out of options so I figured I'd use a self-heal. Short recharge, plus can counter degen to an extent plus a little health boost if it ends when I'm attacking. Wouldn't normally use if I had more options, better to leave the healing to companions.
I know that I need Asuran Scan, and I'd easily replace Shadow Refuge with it if I had it. After that I have 1 PvE slot left and I was thinking either SY or maybe IAU or "I Am The Strongest," although the latter would become useless within seconds of using it. Until I get a higher norn rank, it'd be like using a skill with a 5 second duration with a 20 second recharge. Only benefits after that are precast and damage bonus.
I'm not looking for a Moebius Strike build particularly, just looking for a good dagger build.
This is what I've got so far:
Dagger Mastery- 12+1+1
Shadow Arts- 3
Crit Strikes- 12+1
Critical Agility- I remember that this seemed to me to almost be a must in PvE
Jagged Strike- Low energy, short recharge, and bleeding.
Fox Fangs- Again, low energy, short recharge with a nice damage bonus.
Death Blossom- Shouldn't need to explain.
Moebius Strike (elite)- Like I said, I don't have many elites available and I don't want to waste time getting one if I'm not sure how well it works. I'm not saying this elite is trash, but I'd prefer something a little bit...more experienced playerish?
Crit Eye- Maintainable, long duration, low energy, extra energy when crit, and the obvious crit% boost.
Critical Defenses- Obvious reasons, although it would probably work better in a WotA build than this, but at this point I was running out of options.
Shadow Refuge- Again, ran out of options so I figured I'd use a self-heal. Short recharge, plus can counter degen to an extent plus a little health boost if it ends when I'm attacking. Wouldn't normally use if I had more options, better to leave the healing to companions.
I know that I need Asuran Scan, and I'd easily replace Shadow Refuge with it if I had it. After that I have 1 PvE slot left and I was thinking either SY or maybe IAU or "I Am The Strongest," although the latter would become useless within seconds of using it. Until I get a higher norn rank, it'd be like using a skill with a 5 second duration with a 20 second recharge. Only benefits after that are precast and damage bonus.
I'm not looking for a Moebius Strike build particularly, just looking for a good dagger build.
Bandwagon
"Way of the Assassin" is a decent elite if you want just straight up no-nonsense damage boosts, Moebius is kinda "meh" given that single targets will die in a hurry. Fox's Promise might be decent for block heavy areas. Wastrel's Collapse is also an option if you want a KD + 20 second recharge Shadowstep.
That is honestly all I can think of, there are no real elites in the sin tree that SCREAM "This is better in every way shape and form" if your running randomway/ H/H.
For PvE skills I would recommend A-scan (durr, you alrdy mentioned that one anyway).
Ebon Vanguard Standard of Honor (unless someone else is bringing a copy already) Is awesome given that sins can take full advantage of the extra +damage.
If your using an ER protter, or the SoS on your team has spirits that are constantly / consistently at >50%, "By Ural's Hammer" can provide a no-nonsense, long duration damage boost.
A shadowstep from the Shadow Arts Line can be added (though the recharges are pretty long, ~30 recharge)
SY! is definitely an option that an assassin can take full advantage of since they attack very quickly.
Only take IAU if you really need the mobility in a certain area.
That is honestly all I can think of, there are no real elites in the sin tree that SCREAM "This is better in every way shape and form" if your running randomway/ H/H.
For PvE skills I would recommend A-scan (durr, you alrdy mentioned that one anyway).
Ebon Vanguard Standard of Honor (unless someone else is bringing a copy already) Is awesome given that sins can take full advantage of the extra +damage.
If your using an ER protter, or the SoS on your team has spirits that are constantly / consistently at >50%, "By Ural's Hammer" can provide a no-nonsense, long duration damage boost.
A shadowstep from the Shadow Arts Line can be added (though the recharges are pretty long, ~30 recharge)
SY! is definitely an option that an assassin can take full advantage of since they attack very quickly.
Only take IAU if you really need the mobility in a certain area.
Bandwagon
honestly there are no real alternatives to Jagged Strike, all the other lead attacks are either slow, or have longer recharge times than Fox Fangs (Since it has the longest recharge in the attack chain, Fox Fangs is the limiting factor for your damage).
The Whole point of Dagger spam builds is to....well....spam, and get to your fast recharge dual attack quickly, so you can follow it up with another (assuming the mob even lives that long).
The Whole point of Dagger spam builds is to....well....spam, and get to your fast recharge dual attack quickly, so you can follow it up with another (assuming the mob even lives that long).
Warvic
I use A-scan and SY with my dagger spam build. I can keep SY up and deal the most DPS in my party. It's super nice but also very boring
Corpus Vitalis
Another thing you could do (assuming you run with a monk hero) is use a slot on the hero for the maintainable enchantment Strength of Honor, and all it does is make you do even more damage in melee, increasing DPS. It isn't part of your build, but can be helpful if you decide to run in an area with creatures with high armor
As for an elite, you could fool around with Locust's Fury for the double strike chance and use the extra crit chance from Crit Eye to deal out a fair bit of damage.
Question: if you perform Death Blossom-a dual attack-and have Locust's Fury up and you double strike, will you strike 4 times, 3 times, or just 2 times? DB would really decimate mobs(more than it already does) if you hit everything around you 4 times for 40 dmg(160 to each foe-with only 1 attack!)
And also does Strength of Honor affect Death Blossom by upping the dmg(to all surrounding foes) or does it have no effect?
As for an elite, you could fool around with Locust's Fury for the double strike chance and use the extra crit chance from Crit Eye to deal out a fair bit of damage.
Question: if you perform Death Blossom-a dual attack-and have Locust's Fury up and you double strike, will you strike 4 times, 3 times, or just 2 times? DB would really decimate mobs(more than it already does) if you hit everything around you 4 times for 40 dmg(160 to each foe-with only 1 attack!)
And also does Strength of Honor affect Death Blossom by upping the dmg(to all surrounding foes) or does it have no effect?
FoxBat
Double strikes can only happen when you are using NO attack skills. (i.e. autoattack) This makes locust's fury have very limited value.
Necromas
The standard PvE build is...
Dagger Mastery: 12+
Critical Strikes: 13+
Optional Other: rest
Attack Chain:
Jagged Strike | Golden Fox Strike
Fox Fangs | Wild Strike
Death Blossom
Spammy damage, the golden/wild version is less DPS but it can counter blocking, and you can do some nice AoE.
Key Support:
Critical Agility
Critical Eye
Asuran Scan
CAgility will give you warrior class armor and the only good non-elite IAS for an assassin, CEye gives you the extra boost you need to keep the energy going for your chain, and AScan is just too much extra damage to pass up.
The other two skill slots (or 3 if you don't have asuran scan) can vary a lot, especially since you have some attribute points and an elite slot to spare.
"Save Yourselves!" is very popular for obvious reasons. For other PvE skills, brawling headbutt can be very useful too.
For the elite people often go with a stance, either flashing blades for defense or way of the assassin for energy/damage.
For secondaries, conjures from the ele lines or even demonic flesh from blood magic might be good ideas.
Personally I actually like going ranger secondary and taking a pet.
Dagger Mastery: 12+
Critical Strikes: 13+
Optional Other: rest
Attack Chain:
Jagged Strike | Golden Fox Strike
Fox Fangs | Wild Strike
Death Blossom
Spammy damage, the golden/wild version is less DPS but it can counter blocking, and you can do some nice AoE.
Key Support:
Critical Agility
Critical Eye
Asuran Scan
CAgility will give you warrior class armor and the only good non-elite IAS for an assassin, CEye gives you the extra boost you need to keep the energy going for your chain, and AScan is just too much extra damage to pass up.
The other two skill slots (or 3 if you don't have asuran scan) can vary a lot, especially since you have some attribute points and an elite slot to spare.
"Save Yourselves!" is very popular for obvious reasons. For other PvE skills, brawling headbutt can be very useful too.
For the elite people often go with a stance, either flashing blades for defense or way of the assassin for energy/damage.
For secondaries, conjures from the ele lines or even demonic flesh from blood magic might be good ideas.
Personally I actually like going ranger secondary and taking a pet.
Marty Silverblade
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat
Quote:
For Strength of Honor, I don't think it would work on DB's AoE because it specifically says "in melee." The AoE isn't melee and it's not melee damage either, it's armor ignoring.
You don't hit the foes so SoH will not affect the AoE damage.
Lourens
Its the classical blossom spam everyone knows it wild strike for fox fangs and throw critical strike in it take out shadow refuge.
Bobby2
Instead of Crit Def and Shadow Refuge you could bring more useful skills such as SY!, Asuran Scan, a speed boost (Rush/Dash) or a snare (YMLAD). The benefit of Moebius decreased since Jagged and Fox Fangs got buffed so you could easily run another Elite... or don't bother with one at all
Bandwagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lourens
Quote:
and throw critical strike in it take out shadow refuge.
You actually need Energy when you sin spam? C S is redundant when you have 13 in critical strikes and critical eye / zealous daggers
Daeheru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagon
You actually need Energy when you sin spam? C S is redundant when you have 13 in critical strikes and critical eye / zealous daggers
After adding asuran scan to my bar and taking out shadow refuge, as well as buying new armor for my sin and reducing his energy from 30 to 25, I agree that even then extra energy isn't needed. I dropped the energy down because I noticed that it was actually too much energy and the runes and insignias were better spent on hp. Energy can (rarely) get tight at the beginning of a fight because of crit eye (5e), WotA (5e), crit agility (5e), and asuran scan (5e) so by the time I'm actually done precasting everything I'm down to about 7-8 energy from regen. So if that first hit isn't a crit, even with zealous daggers energy can be tight. Just have to give it a few seconds though and it's pretty much full though
Funny thing about changing the runes though is because I'm using a major vigor instead of superior, my hp is 606. With the hp boost from the norn title, it's 666
Funny thing about changing the runes though is because I'm using a major vigor instead of superior, my hp is 606. With the hp boost from the norn title, it's 666
Carinae
Wild Strike isn't as good as Fox's Promise, which overcomes Aegis and Wards, in addition to Stances.
Moebius is also still fine, and won't tax your initial energy as much.
Moebius is also still fine, and won't tax your initial energy as much.
Issac
I enjoy Critical Agility, but it seems to be getting stripped a good amount for me. Especially in HM and in the WiK. Sometimes the second I reapply it, it's gone. I've been running WotA for a bit to see how it is, been going pretty good. Along with critical eye, SY, dash and critical defense since I couldn't think of anything else. I know CD is another enchantment, but even though it does get stripped it doesn't seem like that I'm at that much of a disadvantage then when CA gets stripped. I guess I could bring both CA and WotA but would it be worth it?
Aqrab
So would you guys run a defensive skill while running CA and Wota or no? I always get the feeling that I'm only getting half the benefit of the skill when running CA and Wota together.
Aqrab
Good post, and I see what you mean. I run Sabway with mostly two other healer henchmen if I can. So they do a pretty good job at keeping me alive, I was curious about the defensive skill because it would provide that extra protection that would may be avoid you being killed from that spike. Some good setups would be as you said with CA and WotA
Jagged Strike
Fox Fangs
Death Blossom
Critical Eye
Critical Agility
Way of the Assassin
Save Yourselves
Dash
Jagged Strike
Fox Fangs
Death Blossom
Critical Eye
Critical Agility
Flashing Blades
Save Yourselves
Dash
Jagged Strike
Fox Fangs
Death Blossom
Critical Eye
Critical Defenses
Way of the Assassin
Save Yourselves
Dash
Jagged Strike
Fox Fangs
Death Blossom
Critical Eye
Critical Agility
Way of the Assassin
Save Yourselves
Dash
Jagged Strike
Fox Fangs
Death Blossom
Critical Eye
Critical Agility
Flashing Blades
Save Yourselves
Dash
Jagged Strike
Fox Fangs
Death Blossom
Critical Eye
Critical Defenses
Way of the Assassin
Save Yourselves
Dash
Axel Zinfandel
The only other thing I can see Jagged being replaced with is Unsuspecting Strike, but I'd only use this if I had spare zealous daggers or using WotA or otherwise felt confident in my energy pool.
Anyway, Elite skills with the build are up in the air and vary. Although it looks like you're only getting half the benefits with WotA, It'd be very useful in case CA gets stripped or otherwise runs out (doesn't happen much, but it DOES happen)
Fox's Promise is good against a lot of blocking. On the flipside, Flashing Blades is good if you want to block a lot. I find you are targeted a lot as a frontline sin doing retarded damage, so it would be good.
For a blanket elite I'd say Flashing Blades or Way of the Assassin, as both are handy overall. Fox's Promise is good against blocking, but in most scenarios where blocking is a problem, you can be just as effective in ignoring them and choosing a different target (there are exceptions, like raptors, which although not too threatening, they annoy me to all HELL while running these types of builds).
Among the odd ones, Siphon Strength can be good against hard hitting bosses if you expect to fight them.
Overall, this is one of the few REALLY good builds where elite doesn't really matter.
Asuran scan, I have to point out, is only good in my experiences in HM and against bosses. Typically, I'm running with at least a hero with Strength of Honor, and my DPS is already so high that people drop like flies. Asuran scan is .75 seconds I could be using to kill everything lol.
But seriously, play around with what you like, cap skills as you go along, and don't worry. You already have a very effective build.
Anyway, Elite skills with the build are up in the air and vary. Although it looks like you're only getting half the benefits with WotA, It'd be very useful in case CA gets stripped or otherwise runs out (doesn't happen much, but it DOES happen)
Fox's Promise is good against a lot of blocking. On the flipside, Flashing Blades is good if you want to block a lot. I find you are targeted a lot as a frontline sin doing retarded damage, so it would be good.
For a blanket elite I'd say Flashing Blades or Way of the Assassin, as both are handy overall. Fox's Promise is good against blocking, but in most scenarios where blocking is a problem, you can be just as effective in ignoring them and choosing a different target (there are exceptions, like raptors, which although not too threatening, they annoy me to all HELL while running these types of builds).
Among the odd ones, Siphon Strength can be good against hard hitting bosses if you expect to fight them.
Overall, this is one of the few REALLY good builds where elite doesn't really matter.
Asuran scan, I have to point out, is only good in my experiences in HM and against bosses. Typically, I'm running with at least a hero with Strength of Honor, and my DPS is already so high that people drop like flies. Asuran scan is .75 seconds I could be using to kill everything lol.
But seriously, play around with what you like, cap skills as you go along, and don't worry. You already have a very effective build.
Shabalbah
Quote:
I just realized it's freakin snowballs that are killing me... what kind of snowballs are those snowmen using?
The snowballs are actually spells, so what I do is not focus on dealing damage, but rather take SF and EVAS with an Asura summon and SY! and run spear/shield set (to fuel adrenaline) with minimal self enchants for healing.
That way, you're getting regular attacks from snowmen which hit for next to nothing, and you're still dealing damage through summons, and yo can draw aggro from the second you step into the range of snowmen, allowing nukers/spikers/what ever other heroes you're running to take out the snowmen.
Hope that helps
Aqrab
I pretty much run the exact same build but I have Critical Eye instead of Assassin's Remedy. I agree with using Asuran Scan in HM, really does help out a lot, especially with the bosses.