Paragon utility in HM and high lvl PvE

Hi guys, I'm bascily a new player to GW, but I was really interested in the paragon profession. I was just wondering if it was good in late game PvE and in Hard Mode, because that's mainly what I'm interested in. I'm asking that because I wanted to make a sin but I was told that it wasn't the best thing in late game. Thanks. It would be cool also if you could link me or post a build that is useful there. Thanks.

Assassin's are one of the most highly thought of professions in PvE for attack spam variants and Shadow Form for running/speed clears. Paragons have issues because of their design and lack of skill selection. All the professions are good in hard mode and end game. Pick the one you like.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cuilan

Assassin's are one of the most highly thought of professions in PvE for attack spam variants and Shadow Form for running/speed clears. Paragons have issues because of their design and lack of skill selection. All the professions are good in hard mode and end game. Pick the one you like. Ok, thank you for your answer

some food for thought! Paragon's are capable of providing substantial damage (cant touch assassins though) on an individual target, can spread a few conditions decently, and can provide some major buffage to the party! I play a paragon every now and again and i really enjoy the way that the buffs help a party in HM and late game PvE. you can be a monk's best friend!

Assassins are more of the "pure damage" type class. They can pretty much spit out raw damage more efficiently than any other class. Compared to assassins, paragons are more of a balanced profession. They can do (single target) damage pretty well, though not as well as a sin, and they can also support the team offensively or defensively in addition to providing healing, energy, and condition removal support should your team need it. All in all, though, I would just choose the one you enjoy playing the most.

Here's the lowdown on Paragons from someone who plays one.
They are great for players who don't normally play with guild members, especially the very common "imbagon" build.

However, for reasons known only to Anet, a lot of end-game content is not friendly to paras. A lot of the War in Kryta and Domain of Anguish content has dedicated enemies (mesmers and necros) that seem to serve no purpose other than shutting down paragons.

Additionally, paras are not favored in human groups for end-game elite missions in any other campaign save for an organized Deep team.

This is due to the current state of PvE actually favoring perma-tanking, massive dmg spikes, and monk based healing.
Protection skills are generally less effective, all but eliminating protection monks from general use.

Additionally, being a Nightfall only character, they do not have access to Prophecies and Factions Elite Armors.

The good news however, paras (usually always an imbagon) are welcome in any main mission of the game HM or NM.

Also there is NO area found yet (working on the UW still) that cannot be beat in NM by an imba and at least one other human player (exempting Urgoz and Deep which need 3 humans minimum) of any profession.

I would say that paragon is a great profession for casual players and people who have busy work and family schedules.

If you are looking to commit hard, max out titles, and get into everything and do anything, whenever; I recommend Assassin or Monk. Necros are usually welcome in almost everything as well.

Right now avoid elementalists (unless you like bonding and lighting yourself on fire while other people fight) and rangers (not weak, just not....yeah).
Dervishes are also currently gimped, but an impending update would make the creation of one not a horrible idea.

Chuckles said it well. Paras are great for general missions, but not in high demand for certain elite areas and are laughed at in PvP. That being said, paragon is my favorite class in all of Guild Wars. Though many say paragons are good for nothing but running Imbagon, I cry BS! Paras can make great best masters, Bippers (feed energy to other players which is needed in certain areas) and can provide amazing support to your team. Given you can't really solo farm anything with a para, but hey... that's why you have more than one character slot!

So I say... GO FORTH AND CHUCK SPEARS!

Quote: Originally Posted by chuckles79 Additionally, paras are not favored in human groups for end-game elite missions in any other campaign save for an organized Deep team. Lies. DoA HM Frostway needs an Imbagon. Non speed clear groups can always use an Imbagon. But TBH Sin owns in overal gameplay.

Pro's for Para:
- Their shouts can suck up major amounts of dmg dealt to the entire partyWhich makes the healer's job easier Which in turn higher survivability - Easier to play

Con's:
- Unwanted in maintream PvP
- Not so versatile as other professionsOnly has 2 pips of energy regen - Most highend groups only want you as an Imbagon

Pro's for Sin:
- Great in PvP
I.e. Wota's, Palmspiker, Cowsins
- Great Shadowform runner & tank
- Capability to join Speedclears
- Versatile
I.e. Critscythe, great AP Discord caller
- Has alot of evasive capability

Con's:
- Harder to master, but shouldn't be a problem if you find a good guild to teach you
- Alot of high end bars use alot of PvE skill variety, more than Imbagon

Opinion:
Both classes provide a good end game. But if you master Sin, you'll have more variety.

Please argument, reinforce and/or add to the list. GLHFM8

I gwamm'd my paragon and actually got tired of running imbagon for the most part. I usually ran an Incoming/Fallback with buff for my party, or a dagger spammer. Paragons are what you make of them, you can either DPS from a distance, buff your party and even heal, take your pick.

As for high end content, they are used in speed clears, Urgoz/Deep/DoA/most dungeons will bring a Paragon along for either imbagon skills or just buffs in general. But for the most part you will get beat out by a ST Rit with defensive spirits as they are generally more effective, ie not requiring Adrenaline.

Imbagon. Perma Sin. That is all.

Quote: Originally Posted by chuckles79 Here's the lowdown on Paragons from someone who plays one.
They are great for players who don't normally play with guild members, especially the very common "imbagon" build. Any profession is great,the entire game content was designed to be doable by all professions.

Quote: However, for reasons known only to Anet, a lot of end-game content is not friendly to paras. A lot of the War in Kryta and Domain of Anguish content has dedicated enemies (mesmers and necros) that seem to serve no purpose other than shutting down paragons. UW balanced can and do take imbas, FoW Yellow-way? DoA team builds do take paragons and hex removals as standard to cure the problem. Shadow of fear and Soothing Images are both easily removed and are far from the most problematic skills. DoA Glaiveway w/ Rt/Mo hex remover

Quote: Additionally, paras are not favored in human groups for end-game elite missions in any other campaign save for an organized Deep team. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

Quote: This is due to the current state of PvE actually favoring perma-tanking, massive dmg spikes, and monk based healing.
Protection skills are generally less effective, all but eliminating protection monks from general use. This is not strictly true and I don't need to go to great length to prove you wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by Korgot

Hi guys, I'm bascily a new player to GW, but I was really interested in the paragon profession. I was just wondering if it was good in late game PvE and in Hard Mode, because that's mainly what I'm interested in. I'm asking that because I wanted to make a sin but I was told that it wasn't the best thing in late game. Thanks. It would be cool also if you could link me or post a build that is useful there. Thanks. Just try different things, and see what you like best.

Quote: Originally Posted by chuckles79

However, for reasons known only to Anet, a lot of end-game content is not friendly to paras. This is completely false. DoA full clears enough said....

Quote: Originally Posted by chuckles79

Protection skills are generally less effective, all but eliminating protection monks from general use. So I know this is unrelated to paragons... but this is entirely untrue. The reason why people don't use protection skills is because they underestimate the usefulness and sheer power that protection brings to party defense. Also, it takes more skill to effectively use protection than it does to redbar. Any good team should utilize monk prots in addition to monk heals, and it is sad that the meta has changed to a mindless heal spam. I guess this proves that what is meta does not necessarily equal what is best.

OMG I'm sorry I forgot DoASC.

I've purposely have forgotten about DoA because I finally got my armbrace after some grinding and am taking a break from the $#@!ing Foundry!!

As for Callista, how often do you see UW balanced-way, and especially UW bway lf para? Also Yellowway is new on me. I admit that I don't watch ToA like a hawk, so if there are better times to find these groups let me know. I'd love to be proved wrong.

I agree with you Lanier, but I guess the definition of "meta" in my book is the path of least resistance. It's the collection of builds, usually pvxwiki, that allow a player with poor skills and/or connection speed to play like a pro.
Being a Rit I bet you are perma-facepalm over the flood of SoS rits now in game. Bring SoS, Bloodsong, Summon Spirits, and a few other crap skills (meaning not optimal) and you have a toon that is more effective than your avg. ranger. (a great ranger is far bettter, but you get my point)

I actually have no problem with prot monks, but I don't remember the last time I saw someone actually "glf protection monk"...not counting an insane dervish who was obsessed with bonding for Against the Charr

Lastly, the point I was primarily trying to make. Paragons, usually as imbas, are great for playing solo with H/H or 2 human player teams.
Any profession can H/H well enough, but paragons seem better suited for it than any other PvE prof. I've played.

Quote: Originally Posted by chuckles79

OMG I'm sorry I forgot DoASC.

I've purposely have forgotten about DoA because I finally got my armbrace after some grinding and am taking a break from the $#@!ing Foundry!!

As for Callista, how often do you see UW balanced-way, and especially UW bway lf para? Also Yellowway is new on me. I admit that I don't watch ToA like a hawk, so if there are better times to find these groups let me know. I'd love to be proved wrong. Maybe so,but you are still 100% wrong.

There are few people that will actually try to balanced pug UW.This is normally left to organised guilds who don't need to spam local chats,that much should be relatively obvious. Yellow-way is also a more guild oriented build..

I shouldn't have to explain that ToA partying is pretty much limited to a few builds,all of them include sins..