I was told GvG is true pvp and AB not. So, I wonder what make GvG pvp but AB not?
Is there NPC in battle?
AB: yes
GvG: yes
Can you take hench in party?
AB: no
GvG: yes
Is party organized?
AB: partialy
GvG: yes
Need you kill NPC for victory?
AB: no
GvG: yes
What make GvG pvp but AB not?
O Bama
tealspikes
What make GvG pvp but AB not?
You can farm NPCs the entire game in AB and still win consistently, in GvG you really can't (at least since VoD). That's the only reason I can think of. Whoever told you that needs to get his facts straight since as you pointed out they both involve NPCs and the whole point of GvG is to kill an NPC.
You can farm NPCs the entire game in AB and still win consistently, in GvG you really can't (at least since VoD). That's the only reason I can think of. Whoever told you that needs to get his facts straight since as you pointed out they both involve NPCs and the whole point of GvG is to kill an NPC.
Kook~NBK~
You won't win ABs without killing NPCs, capping shrines is the key to winning ABs. Lots of NPCs go down in ABs.
You forgot a couple:
Do you fight other players?
AB: Yes
GvG: Yes
Do you have access via your GH?
AB: Yes
GvG: Yes
You forgot a couple:
Do you fight other players?
AB: Yes
GvG: Yes
Do you have access via your GH?
AB: Yes
GvG: Yes
FoxBat
It's not about NPCs per say. It's more that your AB opponents often behave just like NPCs, charging en masse onto a single protted tank, equally as likely to charge in by themselves into an overwhelming mob, employing very questionable builds and not bringing any monks, etc. 
Perfected Shadow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by O Bama
what make GvG pvp but AB not?
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Seriously you can call AB low end pvp, but as long as on one side there are players, and on the opposing side, there are players, then it's pvp.
lemming
People who play AB tend to primarily identify themselves as PvEers.
Sankt Hallvard
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Originally Posted by lemming
People who play AB tend to primarily identify themselves as PvEers.
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My heart just sank a little now that the harsh realities finally caught up with me.
Andemius
Quote:
| People who play AB tend to primarily identify themselves as PvEers. |
TBH, i think the only reason ppl say AB/JQ/FA/RA isn't PvP is because they have an elitist attitude, to me, if there's other people, it's PvP.
Essence Snow
Both are PvP........some players will debate this, but for no real good reason imo. Only reason I can see to debate this is what qualifies for the HoM PvP statue, but then again that is, in reality a different arguement.
godis
If you play against another person its PvP !
Simple as that
Simple as that
Arutima
ab battles are fun for their wackyness, it is more productive running around capping shrines then fighting other players. You can even play with the skill bar you use in pve, if you want.
Gvg is a lot more rigid and need a lot more strategy
Gvg is a lot more rigid and need a lot more strategy
Angel Killuminati
It's simple, whoever told you that were using elitism. They deemed GvG a better form of PvP than AB and in doing so, pushed AB to the bottom of the pile, even going as far as to call it non PvP, simple. At the end of the day the cold hard fact is that AB is still PvP because you fight against other human players.
In thre grand scheme of things though, yes AB is slightly less skilled - especially back in the days of good GvG.
In thre grand scheme of things though, yes AB is slightly less skilled - especially back in the days of good GvG.
Morphy
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Originally Posted by O Bama
Need you kill NPC for victory?
AB: no GvG: yes |
RedDog91
Both are PvP.
I will most certainly be flamed for saying that, but it's the truth. AB just happens to be a lower level of competition.
I will most certainly be flamed for saying that, but it's the truth. AB just happens to be a lower level of competition.
ruk1a
ab is pretty lame pvp imo although it is undoubtedly pvp
my reason being you actually avoid other players to kill npcs which makes it more pve than anything.
my reason being you actually avoid other players to kill npcs which makes it more pve than anything.
Warvic
both are pvp. only elitists call GVG/HA pvp and AB pve. (or "not real" pvp)
In AB, RA CM etc. there are mostly some pve'ers playing. And GVG/HA were early introduced in GW. That's also why some only call that pvp. (RA was also there from the beginning tho q.q). But yeh those seem to be the only reasons i can think off.
In AB, RA CM etc. there are mostly some pve'ers playing. And GVG/HA were early introduced in GW. That's also why some only call that pvp. (RA was also there from the beginning tho q.q). But yeh those seem to be the only reasons i can think off.
FengShuiDove
I think people that would say AB isn't PvP make that assertion simply for the fact that it isn't competitive, which it isn't. You get to organize exactly 1/3 of your team and pray that the other 2/3 don't suck horribly. Coordination is less important (and less available), and often you'll find good players running crappy or experimental builds because they're just there to play around or have fun. That's what I do. But I wouldn't do it in GvG.
So, is AB PvP? Yes. Is AB "Competitive" PvP? Absolutely not.
So, is AB PvP? Yes. Is AB "Competitive" PvP? Absolutely not.
Captain Bulldozer
Check out this page on the official wiki:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP
You'll find on the list of PvP arenas Alliance Battles, as well as J.Q. and F.A.
You'll also find the definition: "Player versus player (PvP) is a style of gameplay that pits players against each other in a competition"
So whoever told you that AB is not PvP is wrong. What they're saying is like saying that Diet Coke isn't coke. It might be a sort of understandable attitude, but its factually incorrect. What IS true, however, is that GvG should probably be considered a more "pure" form of PvP than A.B. since its generally more focused on pitting the players against each other.
I'm temped to say that if it rewards balthazar faction for killing then its PvP, but there is this pesky Zaishen Challenge that isn't really PvP.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP
You'll find on the list of PvP arenas Alliance Battles, as well as J.Q. and F.A.
You'll also find the definition: "Player versus player (PvP) is a style of gameplay that pits players against each other in a competition"
So whoever told you that AB is not PvP is wrong. What they're saying is like saying that Diet Coke isn't coke. It might be a sort of understandable attitude, but its factually incorrect. What IS true, however, is that GvG should probably be considered a more "pure" form of PvP than A.B. since its generally more focused on pitting the players against each other.
I'm temped to say that if it rewards balthazar faction for killing then its PvP, but there is this pesky Zaishen Challenge that isn't really PvP.
fowlero
Some tools say it isn't PvP, when the tend to mean it isn't high end pvp. As opposed to GvG and arguably HA, where the level of competence required to win is higher.
drkn
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| AB is for pve scrubs, GVG is for pplz who are good at guild wars |
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Join Date: Nov 2010 Guild: ZoS Profession: W/Mo |
Faure
I'd say to play gvg correct you do need to encounter human people. To play AB correct you actually should avoid any encounter and stick to capping.
That's why i see ab as pve, altough i usually approach it pvp anyhow because i cba to cap and prefer to anoy the opp teams.
That's why i see ab as pve, altough i usually approach it pvp anyhow because i cba to cap and prefer to anoy the opp teams.
Meridon
I can't use my Essence of Celerity, my Save Yourselves!, or my Pain Inverter in AB.
No, it's not PvE and it never will be. The trend that everyone seems to call it that way, and with it every flawed PvP format that relies more on random luck to win than actual skill, says more about the people designing and playing the game, than the game itself.
No, it's not PvE and it never will be. The trend that everyone seems to call it that way, and with it every flawed PvP format that relies more on random luck to win than actual skill, says more about the people designing and playing the game, than the game itself.
Dzjudz
Where are my costumes in AB??!
O Bama
Thanks for answers! So in general AB is pvp just "low end", "pretty lame", "not competitive" right?
Because coordination is less available it's harder to win, isn't? So you need be more skilled if you can't rely on other 2 groups in AB, then AB is more competitive and harder then GvG?
Why they not run experimental builds and just have fun in GvG?
Sorry for noobish qustions, I just try to clarify for my self (and maybe for other newbs like me).
Because coordination is less available it's harder to win, isn't? So you need be more skilled if you can't rely on other 2 groups in AB, then AB is more competitive and harder then GvG?
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Originally Posted by FengShuiDove
...often you'll find good players running crappy or experimental builds because they're just there to play around or have fun. That's what I do. But I wouldn't do it in GvG.
So, is AB PvP? Yes. Is AB "Competitive" PvP? Absolutely not. |
Sorry for noobish qustions, I just try to clarify for my self (and maybe for other newbs like me).
drkn
Quote:
| Thanks for answers! So in general AB is pvp just "low end", "pretty lame", "not competitive" right? |
distilledwill
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=47
Something I posted just under a year ago which reflects my views on the subject. It was about HB, but it applies just as well to AB.
Something I posted just under a year ago which reflects my views on the subject. It was about HB, but it applies just as well to AB.
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Originally Posted by Distilledwill
TBH HB was as much PvE as ANY other form of PvP in guild wars. The only way PvP could avoid incorporating any PvE elements would be to have 2 teams in an entirely blank and flat arena just fighting against each other.
PvE is player versus environment. The shape of the landscape in HA, RA, GvG, HB etc etc drastically affects whether one person holds an advantage over another - this is even more evident with the more active landscape elements (eg, the catapult in gvg, the tar pits in RA) which can drastically affect play. It is PvE. The NPCs found in GvG, HA, RA etc etc etc etc are another obvious example of PvE in PvP. Similarly, often kills gained by physical attackers are helped along by whether or not the person achieves a critical hit - this is based upon luck, not player skill (outside of the increased chance given due to certain skills/higher chance with a higher point distribution). Luck is, therefore, relatively external to player input, it is, therefore a product of the player environment (as created by the rules of the game). It is PvE. HB was an example of where you must deal with player(s), his allied NPCs and the landscape in order to win. Just like every single other PvP form in guild wars. |
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Morphy
False. You need to kill NPCs to cap bases. If you want to bring up that you can win AB without capping bases, you can also win GvG by giving the opposing team 60% DP, without needing to kill any NPC in the process. It's possible to win both formats without killing NPCs, but it's highly, highly unfeasible in both cases.
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AB is disorganised. You have control over your party, which forms a third of your team, the rest might as well be random. Any team based game where the team does not have an overall structure might as well be a random format - it simply can not be competitive as is.
Then there's the fact most of the people playing AB are hilariously inept.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by distilledwill
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=47
Something I posted just under a year ago which reflects my views on the subject. It was about HB, but it applies just as well to AB. |
nem coke
First of all, OP didn't ask why is gvg pvp and ab pve, so those that are trying to prove that AB is pvp should read the posts twice.
The question the OP asked is why is GvG TRUE form of pvp and AB is not. It's because it's the best structure of pvp ever made, in any MMO, hands down. AB is casual form of pvp. So GvG = high end pvp, AB = casual/ low end.
Those claiming that GvG is only slightly harder than AB... well they have no clue about it, no offense.
EDIT: Oh and cut the ''where do you kill more npcs'' discussion, it's dumb.
The question the OP asked is why is GvG TRUE form of pvp and AB is not. It's because it's the best structure of pvp ever made, in any MMO, hands down. AB is casual form of pvp. So GvG = high end pvp, AB = casual/ low end.
Those claiming that GvG is only slightly harder than AB... well they have no clue about it, no offense.
EDIT: Oh and cut the ''where do you kill more npcs'' discussion, it's dumb.
Warvic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by distilledwill
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=47
Something I posted just under a year ago which reflects my views on the subject. It was about HB, but it applies just as well to AB. |
Meridon
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Originally Posted by nem coke
First of all, OP didn't ask why is gvg pvp and ab pve, so those that are trying to prove that AB is pvp should read the posts twice.
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nem coke
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Originally Posted by Meridon
I completely disagree with people who say that some PvP formats are more PvP than others. This Animal Farm-like approach is ridiculous because it's based only on user bias. My point is that the only thing that makes something PvP or not is this. Any discussion beyond that is pointless.
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IrishX
When people say that AB is PvE, what they really mean is that it feels like PvE. Due to the large focus on killing NPCs and the fact you never have to engage another team to win (also possible in GvG, but never happens as both teams must be willing to full team lord rush from the start), causes it to have a very "PvEish" vibe.
In addition, the relatively low skill level of the players means that most decent players can EXPECT to win every skirmish, even when they have a numerical disadvantage. I know when I AB with my friends, we will regularly engage a larger group (even going 4v12) if our team is either ahead on flags or are actually capping, and will quite often either wipe them, or stall them long enough for our team to get a huge flag advantage.
In addition, the relatively low skill level of the players means that most decent players can EXPECT to win every skirmish, even when they have a numerical disadvantage. I know when I AB with my friends, we will regularly engage a larger group (even going 4v12) if our team is either ahead on flags or are actually capping, and will quite often either wipe them, or stall them long enough for our team to get a huge flag advantage.
Meridon
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Originally Posted by nem coke
Read twice, I'm not saying that AB isn't pvp, nobody is saying that some formats are more pvp than others, just high end and low end/casual.
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bottlew
it is pvp just bottom of the totem pole