Is there more to this game than "Achievement Whoring"?

Got the trilogy off of steam, started from Factions, before i got off newbie island I was level 17, was 20 before i left the next town. So leveling was done.

Went and got, and sold my free zkeys (from GToB), got the best armor (60 for my Ele) made, got all the runes I needed, and had enough left over to by one of the best staffs for my fire class. (40% chance to half spells, +35 life, +10 energy)

Right outside of the next town I capped Double Dragon.

Is there really any more character building left because it feels like there isn't? I asked in main chat about raids, or better gear, they said that there was not better gear, just different looking gear, and now I can try to get titles (Achievements in any other game).

I guess what I am asking is, is there any point in moving on or is this the best my char can get?

It's not the best your char can get. You can get better skills, for a start. If you only have skills from factions, you will not have a very good build. You also seem to only have one weapon, for fire. There are 3 other elements and energy storage, all of which have their (perhaps specialised) uses. There are other things but that isn't my point.

The most important fact is you can get better. Since Guild Wars isn't so much based around gear it means how good you or your character are, is determined by your skill. Also, you probably don't have what most people would consider the most elite armor (see Obsidian Armor). Also, try join a guild and get into pvp. You will no doubt realise how far behind you are if you try out some pvp. Even low end pvp like RA.

Also I don't know if you have any heroes. In PvE heroes determine a lot about how well you do. You can get your heroes the weapons they can get. Get them good builds, and you'll soon find PvE is a lot easier.

You can also try Hard Mode, once you've completed the campaign. Although by the sounds of your post I don't really think you've done that yet.

To reiterate, asking "is this the best my char can get?" isn't what you should be asking. Getting to level 20 hardly counts as anything, it's not what Guild Wars is about.

I could go on but I'm going to stop because I'm half assuming you're a troll.

you assumption would be wrong, i was raising points as to why anet should not implement 7 heros and if they did what they need to adress, which is AI intelligence

If all you want is better gear and grinding maybe WoW or Flyff is more to your tastes?

Or you could (heaven forbid) play the campaigns to completion then try hard modes, do some dungeons, zaishen missions, elite areas like The Deep etc, etc.

Short answer: Nope, your character's stats will not improve beyond what you've got now.

Long answer:

Levelling in Factions (Cantha) and Nightfall (Elona) was always insanely fast compared to Prophecies (Tyria). I always wondered how people that play in Cantha or Elona first would feel. You get the level cap before you even leave newbie island whereas in Tyria you pretty much beat half the campaign to get there. Not to forget Tyrian Ascension is the best of the three!

There isn't much character progression in the game (definitely not like WoW). The gear, as you have mentioned, doesn't get any better stat-wise and the only direction from there is prestige (rare skin weapons and Elite/15k Armor).

There are a lot of skills to learn and each class has 4 schools of magic to learn from so it'll take you a while to figure out which build you'll be running (while there are more than a few popular cookie cutter builds around). You also get a secondary profession which lets you take abilities from another class that would synergize well with your bar. A nice thing about GW is that it's the player that gets better with time and not the gear.

It's called title-whoring here btw! ;D. You have plenty to do, though. While your character won't get any stronger in terms of damage dealt, you have a long checklist of things to do and see. Missions to beat (Normal and Hard Mode), their bonuses, and areas to explore and vanquish to mention a few. It doesn't end at gear progression and leveling up so don't come in to Guild Wars with the WoW mentality.

Another nice part of Guild Wars is that because it's so easy to get max armor, weapons and the level cap is that it's alt-friendly. You can play through the game as any profession that seems interesting to you and chances are it'll be a totally new experience. For example, your job as a Curses Necro would be to spread Spiteful Spirit around whereas an illusion mesmer would focus on making sure that monk or ele mob gets as few spells cast as possible.

Your character can get better, but not in the direct way you may be thinking.
In Factions (and Prophecies), there's not a whole lot more development to do, other than getting some Luxon/Kurzick faction points to get the associated skills. But, in Nightfall, you can get Heroes (which you can make better than henchmen), and Sunspear & Lightbringer points which enable you to use special skills and have certain benefits. In Eye of the North, this goes even further into Asuran, etc., "title" points which will enable you to use powerful PvE skills.

However, if acquiring "better" gear and levelling up is your main enjoyment in an RPG, I can understand your problem. I'm somewhat the same myself, but I play(ed) GW anyway.
There is still a lot of exploring, questing, dungeons, etc. to do. Instead of you and your foes continually moving up in levels, you will stay at the same level (plus title bonuses) but the foes will get tougher.

Not a troll, just wondered. Every other game is based around char building, I guess i assumed this would be too.

Didn't expect to be fully leveled in "End game" gear before I started. Half the fun of MMO's for me (and im guessing most people) is killing something and finding that OMFG upgrade to your gear that will make you that much better.

As far as skill goes, of course im not skilled, I started played 3 days ago. No i haven't gone through the missions, no i haven't beat the game, but if beating the game doesn't get you better loot i almost feel like its not worth it.

Maybe your right, I will look for a guild, do some PVP and see if there isnt something better around the bin. Wasn't trying to say I wouldn't give the game a chance, just wondered what the end game was about if not finding better items. So far it sounds like the only reason to get to end game is to say "I got to end game and I got this shirt...wait no i didn't get a shirt, but i got there!"

Ya, you haven't even scratched the surface of GW. If all you want to do is run around with only knowing 1 elite skill (and only using 1/3 of your profession--not even counting 2nd profs), only having 1 staff and having only started Factions (still 2 other campaigns + EoTN)...then ya...you're done.

If you wish to actually play the game and have fun with it...then start to understand. GW is about the skills. Not your level/gear/armor. There's still much more to do if you'll give it a chance.

Thanks for all the responses, and yeah I did come from WoW But ill give the game good honest try, but from what it sounds like maybe its not for me.

I do like char building more than RPG aspects, not to mention if you in a group, you almost have to skip any storyline cut sceens :P

Edit: Noticed my rank was presearing cadet, had to laugh, since pre searing seems more fun. You get to strive for levels and gear like in most MMOs :P

To an extent, yes.
I regard character building/development as progression. I do not consider a character developed until I can, with a little notice, run any build required of me.
For example, if my guildies were planning an excursion into the Domain of Anguish and wanted me to run Shield of Judgment (a Monk Elite skill) on my Necromancer, I could respond "Sure, give me a sec to go cap it/unlock it and use a tome" whilst the rest of the bar I could immediately buy the skills for. I would also have equipment that would give at least some benefit. I would more likely respond "What the hell!?", but that's not the point. Certainly I think a developed character should be capable of running any build their profession can run at short notice.

To that end, I only consider one of my characters fully developed (my Necromancer) and I've been playing for over three years now. Several other of my characters could be considered fully developed, but have not quite yet reached that stage.
Note that this standard takes more time to reach with EotN as a result of the PvE skills and associated title tracks.


Really, character development isn't the point of the game - at least it wasn't in the past. The idea is to overcome challenges, for your team to venture into an area with what you regard as the most suitable setup and try to wipe the floor with the hapless AI controlled enemies that oppose you.
If that does not interest you, then try PvP. If you don't enjoy that then I recommend you don't play the game. Unless of course, you really enjoy achievement/title grinding, but you're a long way behind on that.

I did like the title of the post.

Surely a game that has many many levels like WOW is as much Achievement Whoring as GW.

This game decided that a 20th lvl character fighting a 20th lvl opponent isn't much different to a 80th lvl character fighting an 80th lvl opponent.

Sure one does more damage but the enemy has more armour and more hits so what's the point.

Now if you get past that and limit the skills that can be carried to 8 add 9 possible secondary classes you have a situation where there are so many combinations of skills that you could spend years working through them all.

If that doesn't suit your style then nope GW possibly isnt for you.

Wow actually did recently add achievements, but its not the main focus of the game. You beat the last boss not for the achievement, but for the loot her drops that makes you hit just a that much harder.

Kinda what I expected from GW, but looks like a different playing style.

Some people beat dungeon bosses for the chance to get a nice looking, unique weapon from the end chest. These weapons are the same as any weapon you might buy from a crafter, or find as a regular drop, but just sometimes have a nice skin that you can't find anywhere else.
Others (like me) do these dungeons for the sake of doing them. It's a challenge, I want to demonstrate to myself that I can do it.


Guild Wars was built on a "Skill over Time" principle. That is, just because you've been playing longer than someone or have ground out more achievements than someone else, doesn't make you more powerful. Everything comes down to your ability as a player. Hence the low level cap and flat power level of weapons (max stats being easy to obtain without massive investment costs).
This principle holds in PvP today, but it is one that has been butchered and hacked to pieces for PvE by the actions ANet have taken with each addition to the game.

Instead of looking at your weapons and armour as your gear, look at your skills as your gear.

Suddenly you have an awful lot to work on.

That's a good way of putting it. Max armor and weapons? Easy. Getting a nice variety of skills, learning how they work, and more importantly how they work together? Gonna take a bit more time.

I had a longer reply but the forum ate it. Basically, GW is not WoW, and the two really are not comparable.

or delete your character and start anew in Prophecies. It will take much longer to get to level 20 and max armor. THEN do factions, NF and EotN. GW as it was supposed to be played...

Try to forget about gear. Try to play Guild Wars according to its design, which is skill-based, not gear based. Once you get this, you will not fear any more that there is nothing to do after you reach level 20.

So, for me, character building in Guild Wars is getting every skill including elite skills for my primary profession, get every pve skill from eye of the north by playing the skill quests, and unlock every outpost in the game. This includes every mission and enables my character to travel everywhere and do every mission/dungeon/whatever my guild or friends want to start and invite me to.

Getting maximum gear is not the goal - that is available at the time where you are about to leave the tutorial part of your starting campaign. Which is pretty much the beginning of more advanced playing, not the end.

If GW1 isn't the game for you, maybe GW2 will be, because it will be more gear-oriented.

You can even earn rewards in GW1 for it

Try beating the game? >_<

It's always difficult to explain to players of gear-based games how different Guild Wars is. You have been conditioned over the years (from the DnD-type games) to require better gear and higher levels to show your progression in the game. Guild Wars is more like Magic: The Gathering card game where your power is based on your available skills and how well you synergize them. In GW, it goes even further and you need to learn to also synergize the team build. It can take a long time (much longer than completing the campaigns) and some players never really grasp the concept.

If you are planning on playing a lot with other players, you need to develop your skill set, capturing more elites skills and trying out various builds that fit your playing style. If you plan on playing alone, you probably need to go over to Nightfall and pick up some heroes and start working on getting them developed with good synergy with your own build. As much as it is fashionable to hate on heroes, it has indeed become a pretty important part of the game.

Alright I am no where near the level that most of these members are at. I'mm not talking about the experience bar in the corner of your screen. I'm talking about having my heroes all runed out with elite skills on all of them. Not to mention that I haven't even beaten all the campaigns, have every pve skill unlocked, or know what every skill does at a glance. When you can and have done all of that then you are good at the game.

Also, the gw equivalent to high end gear are things like the Bone Dragon Staff, Obsidian Armor, and other such hig end items that work the same as any other weapon, but they are rare and/or expensive to obtain.

Not to put you off Guild Wars but if you do decide that this game isn't for you why not try LOTR online they just this minute emailed me the details.

Take a look might be your thing, then check out GW2 when it comes out that might suit you better.

I know its off topic for the forums just trying to help out a fellow gamer find a game he might like.

ok, so you bought your dream car, got it detailed, got your shades and driving gloves---are you just going to let your car SIT in the garage???

This game is about PLAYING not acquiring stuff (ok some people think it is)....but its about skill, learning more and actually doing missions and quest to become even better

though you can just let your shiny new car sit in your driveway I guess....I am taking mine for a drive!!!

It's worth pointing out that your character is not, in fact, as strong as he can possibly get. You have one elite (a bad one, at that), and only a handful of skills, mostly (I'm guessing) in fire magic. You haven't hit a wall in your character progression yet. Even after you do hit a wall in your character's progression, you still have a long way to go in your personal progression (ie, your skill at the game). No, it's not a never-ending treadmill. There are other games if you want that.

There is one way of gaining power you may not have heard of. There are PvE skills which depend on your rank in various titles.

1. Every class has a sunspear skill (in Nightfall) which goes up as you acquire sunspear points. It's not hard to max your sunspear rank though.

2. Every character (regardless of class) has a number of skills in the four EotN titles. These start powerful and get even more powerful as you increase your rank in four titles. These titles take a bit longer to max.

3. Every class has a lux/kur skill in factions depending on your lux/kur title. This title is very time consuming to raise.

So getting these skills maxed does make a noticeable difference and adds to the power of your character. Maybe this is the kind of thing you would be interested in working towards?

Think of Guild Wars as being more like Super Mario. If you're playing Mario it's easy to go and get yourself a fire flower and hitch a ride on Yoshi, and that pretty much finishes things as far as character development goes. The game is still far from over, though, because it's not about what Mario can do; it's about what you can do as a player.

It may still not be the right game for you, but if you think of it in those terms rather than in comparison with WoW, then you're probably going to better be able to appreciate its strong points.

I feel what you feel, the gear system and character development are pretty much terrible in GW and the coolest thing to happen to the game in this aspect was apparently an "unintended feature" (an event mini dungeon with lots of special drops possible, also functionally unique, thanks to an odd parameter in the drop generation algorithm)... but still I've managed to keep playing it for 6 years (since beta), and GW is still unmatched by no other game as a whole.

So here's how I managed to enjoy even the weakest aspects of the game over the years::

Progression in GW is mostly horizontal - you don't necessarily become strictly more powerful, but you gain versatility, a great variety of options. Character effectiveness depends mainly on the build - the selection of 8 skills. There are HUGE amounts of skills in the game and it will take some time before you get a large amount of them. It's well worth it to experiment playing with many of them, especially the Elites, and building around them. Different builds are better for different tasks, so having more choices makes your character better.

If you want to gain actual POWER above level 20 there's the Eye of the North expansion - there is a bunch of PvE only skills to be learned there, they're often stronger than regular skills, and their power depends on one of 4 title tracks. Think of it as levelling past level 20 - you aren't 100% powerful without max rank of those titles. Even in Factions and Nightfall there are also a couple powerful PvE-only skills for each profession, also depending on a title (Kurzick/Luxon/Sunspear/Lightbringer).

Now the gear.
If you just like me like to improve your character's efficiency instead of just fancy looks and love to be able to find something that will be an actual functional improvement, GW is very very disappointing but there's still a little something to do, if you care about efficiency gains like 1% or 0.1% or smaller.

First - each character has 4 weapon swap slots, used to switch to different weapons (and/or shields) quickly during combat (experienced players even swap them straight from inventory). Utilizing all of them does make your more powerful/efficient, although the differences are barely noticable by an average player in PvE (they matter in PvP mostly).

For a caster, the weapon sets you would want to have are:
1. Efficient casting set - weapons with Haves Casting time and Halves Recharge time mods, often it's a focus+wand combination (40/40) or a staff.
2. Enchanting set - utilizing the "Enchantments last 20% longer" mod which is by far the single most impactful modifier to be found on any weapon (if you use enchantments). For some builds the efficient casting is also enchanting.
3. High energy set (emergency set) - 1 or 2 weapons with additional +15energy that comes at a cost of
4. Defensive set - using a Shield (yes, you can use a shield even if you don't meet the requirements of it, you will gain 8 armor and FULL benefit of it's mods). If you build a collection of items to use, the largest part of them will likely be shields, so you have access to shields that protect you better against the threats you're about to face (most important is the +10 Armor vs specific damage types mod, but others can also be situationally better)

That's the basics, if you got that covered, all that's left is perfecting it so it fits the best your build and playstyle. While the gains are negligibly small, if you want still to keep improving, in some cases an improvement may come from a very rare item that has an unusual mod combination (not possible to replicate by just modding a clean one), or from using items with very low requirements. Finding those can be very hard, and often expensive.

Oh and after all, if you crave for real POWER, the highest individual power gains in this game come from Consumable items - you can use as many different ones as you want and their effects will add up, and the power gains will be 100x greater than what all the tinkering with gear sets will give you. With 10+ different ones active you're more powerful than a hypothetical level 30 character would be.

This was all about your individual character's progression and improvements past level 20. GW is a team-based game so there's much to be gained from perfecting your heroes aswell (can't rely on other people for most things). And then there are a HUGE TON of challenges in the game that will keep you busy, even with the rewards being mostly miserable "more of the same" items and pure achievement (nonfunctional) titles.