15 Nov 2010 at 02:42 - 2
Dervishes don't need more survivability.
HM Monsters need to be fixed. There's no reason for them to have additional armor penetration and crit % for each level higher than the player.
Also, if they're gonna do anything to Eternal Aura, I'd like to see it give 1 energy back for each skill that was recharged. That would help Dervs manage energy even without avatar builds with the added bonus of nice damage from Eternal Aura.
15 Nov 2010 at 04:49 - 3
Extra survivability for one member of the party is generally not significant, especially if it comes with a drop in DPS.
Melee classes do not need defensive skills (SY being an exception, and only then because it affects the party instead of themselves). Taking a defense skill means not taking an offensive one. That means monsters live longer and deal more damage, nullifying the benefits of the defensive skill. The best way for melee to take stress off their healers (the only purpose of any defensive skill) is to kill whatever is applying the stress.
Also, dervishes have no room for Eternal Aura. Their 3 PvE skills are all already reserved if they want to get the most out of their bars.
Oh, and by the way, Conviction provides as much defense (if not more) as your ideas here, making them redundant at best.
15 Nov 2010 at 05:29 - 4
I dig the OP's last idea, but I agree with X Dr Pepper X that Dervishes already have enough survivability.
Here's an idea for Eternal Aura I came up with a while back. I believe it would help combat two of our worst enemies:
Quote:
10e, insta-cast, 30r
Skill. For 10-15-20 seconds, whenever one of your Dervish enchantments is removed or interrupted, that skill recharges instantly. This skill is disabled for 30 seconds. 50% chance of failure if Mysticism is four or less.
Of course this is assuming avatars receive a normal recharge.
15 Nov 2010 at 05:44 - 5
The Dervish has plenty of Defensive options as it is. I am a huge fan of Conviction. With 6 in earth prayers you get a maintainable +24 AR and 50% block. With Blessed or Windwalkers that gives you 104 AR even if your using a ZV build. A W/D only gets 100 AR no blocking and no inherent +25 hp bonus. Making imo, a ZV derv with conviction defensively superior to a W/D scythe.
If Eternal Aura is changed it should be in an offensive way. Something like an IAS and recharges when a Dervish enchantent ends on you. Not to mention the Avatars would need to be made maintainable. If Avatars where made maintainable with out Eternal Aura I wouldnt mind seeing a change.
Eternal Aura. 10e 1/4c 30r. Enchantment. All nearby foes take 65...100 holy damage. For 30 seconds you attack 33% faster. This enchantment is reapplied when a dervish enchantment ends on you. If you have less than 4 in Mysticism, this skill fails.
15 Nov 2010 at 05:55 - 6
Suggesting is pointless at this point.
1.Go to Riverside
2.Go to speculation thread.
3.Read OP
4.?????
5.Profit!
15 Nov 2010 at 06:35 - 7
I have to agree that survivability is not what makes W/D and A/D more effective at scythes than just D.
I'd rather see the Avatars get good PvE buffs, faster enchant casting times, better AoE rewards for quality enchant juggling, and a buff to Mysticism to fuel it all.
Make Dervishes do something that other professions can't do, and make the numbers and utility good too.
15 Nov 2010 at 14:11 - 8
It's a bunch of factors that make the Dervish suffer:
Mysticism sucks.
W/D gets Armor penetration and a decent IAS (flail)
A/D gets critical abuse and whatnot.
Also having to bring conviction means wasting 5 or 6 attribute levels. The last option, IAS and Conviction rolled into one, solves the problem of needing Heart of Fury AND Conviction just to match a sin in terms of Critical Agility.
We can expect a Dervish overhaul, but things have to start small, am I right? Eternal aura is the one non-Mysticism skill that isn't abused by W/D, A/D.
15 Nov 2010 at 14:13 - 9
What makes Warriors with a scythe better than dervishes is:
Attack skill
Attack skill
Attack skill
Attack skill
Flourish!
repeat as needed
You can just sit there spamming non-stop attacks at 65+ damage each.
15 Nov 2010 at 14:49 - 10
Move Conviction out of Earth Prayers. Stick it in Mysticism.
Or don't do anything - there isn't really a problem on the Derv side of the equation.
15 Nov 2010 at 15:34 - 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
It's a bunch of factors that make the Dervish suffer:
Mysticism sucks.
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Except for most of the skills in it, of course.
Quote:
Also having to bring conviction means wasting 5 or 6 attribute levels.
Only if you never actually use it. It's not a bad skill if you're a Dervish looking for a bit of defense.
15 Nov 2010 at 15:47 - 12
Dervs suck at being dervs becuase their derv only attribute is broken and useless.
Mysticism is so useless alot of derv builds don't even use it. What other class on a regular basis for general PvE runs around with little or nothing in their exclusive attribute.
Mysticism doesn't even really have an skills that balance out its complete uselessness as an attribute. Avatars make you look really cool and all but they take up an elite skills slot and the +40 armor from Balth only makes a derv about equal in armor to a warrior with no skills active. The rest of the avatars are niche skills that dont have enough general utility to be useful across the board.
15 Nov 2010 at 15:48 - 13
Survivability has not been an issue for me on my Dervish. I have played with a Avatar of Dwayna axe setup that is great, and there is still a few great dervish build that are not ran by many. The problem I see with Dervish is other professions can use a scythe more effectively. I hope to see some changes to Mysticism or Scythe mastery that would boost the class.
Maintaining an enchantment is harder than a stance or skill in most cases, in the end they will have to stick some skills to Mysticism I agree with above.
15 Nov 2010 at 20:12 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Dervishes have Zealous Vow to match up with Warrior's Endurance. However, they don't have the survivability then. Without Avatar of Balthazar or Conviction, they are pretty fragile.
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Quote:
Zealous Vow + AoHM is two.
Strength of Honor is three.
The stray prot (Prot Spirit, SB, SoA) makes 4.
3 is a reliable number of enchantments for a Derv in a team that's half considered setup. Even in a PuG with a crap prot monk 3 is common enough and two is reliable, making Windwalker's the superior option.
If you're inclined to Heart of Fury then that's three you maintain on yourself no problem.
The problem here isn't the number of enchantments available, but that they're enchantments. Doing the WiK stuff on my Derv can be nasty with all the strips around meaning it's very easy to instantly blow up. Taking Conviction helped stabilise things, but at the cost of firepower.
I H/hed Vloxen HM on him a little while ago with Whirling Charge and the biggest problem were the regular Summit Sages (spamming Discharge) that basically killed my entire template.
ZV is less stable than WE true, but it's also more powerful.
IAS options are Whirling Charge, Heart of Fury, Drunken Master and Frenzy. The biggest downside to Conviction is that it cannot be used with three of these - you're forced to take the weakest for a ZV Derv. That is not something I would consider changing though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion