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drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

21 Nov 2010 at 21:48 - 41

Quote:

2. Gwen's also nineteen, as in, not an adult. She's not going to react the same way as an adult would.

She's perceived as mature and responsible enough to lead the Ebon Vanguard. Don't forget that she's the one to forge Ebonhawke, or so the rumors say. 'Gwen the Goremonger'.

Quote:

I dislike Gwen, a lot. Especially her attitude toward Pyre when they first meet.

Ye, this too. But i can, somehow, understand her attitude then. I do not understand and can't stand the post-EotN/post-UW/post-WiK Gwen, and don't really get why she was developed that way.
Let me say that i haven't expected the 'proposal dialogue' to be played out that way after those:

Quote:

Gwen: "He can't be everywhere. By helping her, he's hurting me."
Gwen: "But look at him right now. He looks kind of happy, doesn't he? Did we ever look like that?"
Gwen: "How could we have? I was always so busy pushing him away..."
...
Gwen: "Is this the kind of person I want to be? Shutting myself off and being afraid to expose my feelings. Maybe happiness is better than feeling nothing at all. Maybe it's worth the pain."
Gwen: "If he can change, then maybe...maybe I can change, too."
...
[the whole 'sweet fool' part]

Her initial response to the proposal ('you impossible idiot!'; 'yes, fine, yes, i will marry you' - here puppy, fine, have your bone) is what destroyed her in my eyes.

On a good side, the wedding will make her get out of HoM for a while.

RedStar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

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21 Nov 2010 at 22:06 - 42

You should have quoted more :

Quote:

So... yes. Fine, yes. I'll marry you. Someone has to take care of you. I don't...ever want you disappearing on me like that again.

See, it's not like "here doggy I'm giving you your treat" it's more like she doesn't want to feel too romantic "I say yes to make it seem like it's because you need me, but in the end I also need you".

I actually liked the dialogue between Gwen and Sarah.

I mean someday Gwen has to stop being "mean" toward everyone and start opening her heart to people. She can't have a kid and build a city that will attract a lot of people by being the "I'm-under-the-effect-of-perpetual-period"-woman.
(Of course it's not only one event that is going to change her attitude. She's only 19 so she has a lot of time to change).

Deviant Angel

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

On a boat!

Homeless.

Mo/

21 Nov 2010 at 22:10 - 43

Gwen has been through a lot and it's not that shocking that she's got a prickly personality. It doesn't mean she's unfit for marriage or undeserving of love. Some people just have trouble letting the friendly and playful side out after they have been through something traumatic. She may feel vulurable or weak when she does that.

It sounds like she found someone that loves her for who she is under the prickly exterior, even if he doesn't get to see it all the time. I don't think it makes him a fool. Who knows, maybe she will soften up a bit? I'm kinda shocked she hasn't yet, but I guess some nuts are tougher to crack.

If my story was unfolding like that, the prickly armor would probably instantly go away.

AngelWJedi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2008

orlando,florida

Society of Souls [Argh]

Rt/E

21 Nov 2010 at 22:42 - 44

i think if anet had put some more lore in between the hunt, wik and this i bet more people would like gwen. and gwen would have gotten better. i think in time gwen will be less snippy. but hey i know people in rl that act like that with their partners and they are still happly married.

Isfit

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2006

Vienna

D/

21 Nov 2010 at 22:49 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sytherek

From what I see in the other threads, it looks like many people (like me) think Thackeray should have run off with Miku, leaving Gwen to continue her shrewish existence at the Eye of the North.

After talking about how she needs to grow and change... well, to avoid spoilers, I'll just say that her response to Thackeray's proposal is childish and rude -- and a bit domineering.

On the other hand, I run her as a Domination Mesmer, so...

As it is, I regret helping Thackeray go "home" -- he deserves better than the Shrew of the North.

Chibi-Gwen was always the best and will be the best.
How she owned everyone with her little flute <3

Pre-searing Gwen was a kid, nothing more nothing less, but the fact that she remained unspoken of after the searing made her mysterious.

Post-searing Ebon Vanguard Gwen is just a whiny little bitch that you would to just send to the moon so she never comes back.

Miku, me being a big manga and anime fan, and her being obviously a reference to aforementioned genres, is one of my most favorite "new" characters. Let's see how she turns out in the subsequent plotline - we did not really get to know her. Nevertheless she has great potential.

Keiran though is an idiot for trying to court Gwen and he deserves what he gets, Miku deserves better.

So no I can not agree, Miku is a far too interesting and independant character to end up with a lousy idiot like Thackeray.

RedStar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

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21 Nov 2010 at 23:10 - 46

You guys seem to forget something : Keiran fell in love with the "old" Gwen.

He doesn't want her to be all "Oh Keiran I missed you, I love you, I need you, kiss me ! Let's go run barefoot in the wild and trow snowballs at each other" he just want her to open her heart a little more, not to drastically change her personality.

Concerning Miku : we know absolutely nothing about her except that she's less snippy than Gwen. And she doesn't seem to be looking for love.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

21 Nov 2010 at 23:12 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

She's perceived as mature and responsible enough to lead the Ebon Vanguard. Don't forget that she's the one to forge Ebonhawke, or so the rumors say. 'Gwen the Goremonger'.

Gwen has determination out of revenge against the charr, that doesn't mean she's mature. Lots of brave fighters are pretty young, but ask any "old" war veteran that served with some and they will tell you they are just kids.

I'd say she's acting like the teenager she is. Dislike it if you want, but, she is what she is and that's what I love.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

21 Nov 2010 at 23:39 - 48

So Langmar was stupid enough to leave Vanguard's leadership in hands of a teenager with emotional problems? Like there were no better suited people to be left in charge...

RedStar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

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21 Nov 2010 at 23:46 - 49

I almost find it normal that Gwen was designated leader : she knows her priorities and doesn't listen to her feelings, except anger which can sometimes cause problems.

Plus she lived as a slave for some years so she was inside the enemy's base, so she has some ideas about their culture and a better understanding of their ways than a soldier that has only saw a Charr as a brainless monster.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

21 Nov 2010 at 23:53 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

So Langmar was stupid enough to leave Vanguard's leadership in hands of a teenager with emotional problems? Like there were no better suited people to be left in charge...

She's an outstanding soldier, knows the charr well and is tough enough to demand respect, so yes, I would have made the same decision.

RedDog91

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2007

Farming for Nick gifts

R/

22 Nov 2010 at 00:13 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

So Langmar was stupid enough to leave Vanguard's leadership in hands of a teenager with emotional problems? Like there were no better suited people to be left in charge...

Perhaps a sole hero who has saved the world 4 times...?

mrmango

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Southern California

Charter Vanguard [CV]

Me/Rt

22 Nov 2010 at 01:58 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

I almost find it normal that Gwen was designated leader : she knows her priorities and doesn't listen to her feelings, except anger which can sometimes cause problems.

Plus she lived as a slave for some years so she was inside the enemy's base, so she has some ideas about their culture and a better understanding of their ways than a soldier that has only saw a Charr as a brainless monster.

But that's how Gwen sees them, barely accepting Pyre at the end of GW:EN.

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

22 Nov 2010 at 01:58 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

Perhaps a sole hero who has saved the world 4 times...?

Wouldn't be very smart to leave command of an entire military force who ups and leaves to other countries (or continents) at the drop of a hat.

There's a reason why Heroes have so much trouble getting jobs - you can count on them to save the world, but God knows where they are when you need the paperwork filed.

Coraline Jones

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Modified Soul Society

Mo/R

22 Nov 2010 at 03:57 - 54

I think that it goes without saying that Gwen's character has some of the worst character "development" in the game.

The story doesn't make any sense anyway. When somebody really cares about something then they make a strong effort to do something about it. If it was somebody important to you, like a family member, and they went missing, then you'd be out there looking for them. You wouldn't just dole out the responsibility to your best friend while you sat at home wringing your hands.

I have no idea why the quest wasn't written so Gwen was a mandatory hero in your party to look for clues, and along the way you'd have some dialogue or plot that would show growth in her character and make her character look more believable. I mean, right now the whole "romance" storyline is nothing but you running all over Tyria looking for weird old relics. Then you get these "visions" and Gwen has some bizarre soliloquies afterwards. This is seriously how ArenaNet wanted to make people empathize with their characters?

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

22 Nov 2010 at 06:51 - 55

Still, Gwen is one of the youngest soldiers of the Vanguard, with, probably, the least field experience before we got her out of HoM to look for the missing soldiers. She's far from being adult, but mature enough to lead people already, many of them older and wiser than she is. Leading the Vanguard isn't only fighting off the Charr in guerilla operations...

Quote:

Perhaps a sole hero who has saved the world 4 times...?

I think that, lore-wise, the PC meets Gwen after Nightfall - all in all, when NF campaign's events start, Gwen is 15 years old, while, according to the official wiki, she escaped Charr's captive when she was 17.
Though we know that she, in some mysterious ways, gained Langmar's trust and became a second in command within a year after she joined the Vanguard (so, shouldn't she get her version of TNTF after becoming the leader? ;p), those pieces just don't fit.
e: Just realised you meant the PC. Technically, the PC isn't even a member of the Vanguard afaik.

Still, it's not that much about the original character of Gwen, it's more about the whole post-EotN development.

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

22 Nov 2010 at 14:54 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

Perhaps a sole hero who has saved the world 4 times...?

This is what I hate most about GW storytelling. We should have a role that matters, instead it's like we're on a ride at Disney World watching the lore characters doing something different in different places, and we're just saving the world to watch these characters carry out their mundane lives? To me it's not that great of an incentive. I want to see Cantha treat us like one of the most important military leaders in the world, with a superstar track record of success... Ok, maybe not that much of the game kissing up to us but maybe some bones here and there that show we even exist. Instead all we get is the perpetual revolving quest window. "Thanks! Also could you go do this, you seem easily enslaved into menial jobs for people who haven't done you any favors, so I had to ask."

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

22 Nov 2010 at 17:27 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

The story doesn't make any sense anyway. When somebody really cares about something then they make a strong effort to do something about it. If it was somebody important to you, like a family member, and they went missing, then you'd be out there looking for them. You wouldn't just dole out the responsibility to your best friend while you sat at home wringing your hands

Gwen was put in charge of the Vanguard, she can't be out with us (lore-wise) any more than Langmar could have left to adventure with us. Being the Vanguard was without two of the best they have/had, if Gwen were to leave, arguably it would fall into disarray.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

/snip

That's just about how every game treats the "hero", I don't see how this is unique to GW. In GW2 we will have recognition.

Arato

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2010

22 Nov 2010 at 17:35 - 58

I think Keiran should have ran off with Miku myself too.. but since he didn't and decided to become a submissive male to a domineering female when he could have had someone he worked as a TEAM with..

Well since Miku's still available it's a shame my toon can't run off with her, his loss eh?

New Buddha

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

22 Nov 2010 at 17:49 - 59

Man conquers the world, Woman conquers the man.

...only because we let them....guess that is what you call love.

Arato

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2010

22 Nov 2010 at 18:17 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

While i share your sentiment towards Gwen, i hate her as the in-game character she became. I played all the games in chronological order, but then, later, used Gwen as a hero a lot as well. I remember her dancing in that funny cape until she fell over. I like her story, but not her character.
It's not only limited to her attitude towards Thackeray for the whole time. I remember this cinematic to be the first moment when i started to dislike her, only to strengthen that feeling.

I used to like Gwen myself, I mean, I knew her as a little girl and was so worried about her when she disappeared in the searing, I thought it was tragic that the Charr had killed the poor child. Then I'm reunited with her and she's a beautiful woman now, but she's been through a lot of bad things. I tried my best to cheer her up, showing her things that reminded her of what we were like when she was young, following me around on my adventures, gifts I gave her, a gift she gave me that I held onto for years and years when she called me her favorite person in the whole world (next to her mommy of course). I thought I started making progress, but she still had a lot of emotional problems, a little part of me thought, maybe after all this was over, we could go back and make Ascalon the way it used to be again, and be happy together. One of her fellow soldiers even gave me another idea on how to cheer her up, with a special wintersday present! After I gave it to her though, he took all the credit, and started making advances on her right in front of me!

I watched him try and fail, and at first, I thought he got shot down in flames and she was mine for sure... but then, I started watching how she treated him, and thought, that emotional baggage is never going to go away, and any ties to her past, such as me, won't help, maybe she did need someone new.. and plus, she'd changed, and her attitude put me off. So I gave up on her myself. I feel bad for Keiran chasing after her, even if he did stab me in the back at first. Oh well I'll let him pick his poison..

While no, I don't seriously get into the in game romance aside from any rp aspects.. they do say your GW2 character is your GW character's descendent.. so.. as scary as any future charr/asura/sylvari progeny may be.. you gotta hook it up with someone right?

BenjZee

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Overacheivers [Club]

Mo/

23 Nov 2010 at 08:22 - 61

I thought it was told quite well, it was obvious Gwen was getting very jelous of Miku even though Kieran wouldn't dare do anything. Her response to the proposal was quite comical and still having some GW charm to it, what did you want her to do go "ohhhh kieran, yes, i am the happiest girl in the world"...now that wouldn't be what we wanted to see.

And those still angry about her and Pyre, c'mon she's supposed to be quite horrible towards him even if you think thats a little extreme. Pyre doesn't put her down in this and simply states that the mouse is learning.

Raven Wing

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Imperial Guards of Istan [TIGI]

N/

24 Nov 2010 at 09:49 - 62

Well you can cast spells that only do harm if some conditions are met. She could have cast empathy and backfire on him, and since he didnt try to attack or cast spells they had no effect.
Thats also a way to control people you know

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

24 Nov 2010 at 14:35 - 63

ITT: guys who are sensitive about women's opinions of their hair.

Oh, and yeah, as for hating the Charr... imagine the nazis ATE their victims in concentration camps. Now imagine you were in a concentration camp as a child, escaped, and met an SS officer. Feel ready to forgive and forget? The only thing I didn't like about Gwen's interaction with Pyre is that she doesn't cut his throat in his sleep.

'But Pyre is fighting the shamans too!' BS. The enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend. He still holds the same values that led him and those like him to destroy everything you ever loved. Then eat it if it had legs.

Rushin Roulette

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Right here

Ende

24 Nov 2010 at 14:57 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

ITT: guys who are sensitive about women's opinions of their hair.

Oh, and yeah, as for hating the Charr... imagine the nazis ATE their victims in concentration camps. Now imagine you were in a concentration camp as a child, escaped, and met an SS officer. Feel ready to forgive and forget? The only thing I didn't like about Gwen's interaction with Pyre is that she doesn't cut his throat in his sleep.

Actually your analogue is kind of Skewed. It would be more like if you met a captured German Resistance fighter after you had escaped. Pyre is himself not a Prison guard and is fightign against the Shaman caste who would be the Nazis in your comparison.

If you take that into account, then Gwens reactions are very close minded and stupid. Shes just after revenge no matter who it hits. In the end shes no better than the Charr herself by choosing random and innocent victims.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

24 Nov 2010 at 15:00 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

Actually your analogue is kind of Skewed. It would be more like if you met a captured German Resistance fighter after you had escaped. Pyre is himself not a Prison guard and is fightign against the Shaman caste who would be the Nazis in your comparison.

If you take that into account, then Gwens reactions are very close minded and stupid. Shes just after revenge no matter who it hits. In the end shes no better than the Charr herself by choosing random and innocent victims.

Sorry you posted before my clarification edit. He's still behaving exactly like the other SS guards, carrying on about 'racial purity' and happy to torture kill and eat people. He still calls you 'meat', which is charr for 'n*&^%r'. He just doesn't like Hitler being in charge. The analogy may be flawed in some way, but not in the way you're saying.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

24 Nov 2010 at 16:10 - 66

I have no problem with the overall plot:

Gwen loves Keiran, Keiran loves Gwen. No prob.

I do think the proposal was... awkward. If would have been a nice change of pace for Gwen to propose to Keiran...

I don't know, it just happened too fast to my taste. I would have liked one more quest with Keiran and Gwen together, that sealed the deal.

But there is still a wedding to plan, so I remain hopeful.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

24 Nov 2010 at 16:14 - 67

Eh, I realised that makes it sound like I think the charr are nazis. I don't, I'm saying that all the values that the charr weight differently to humans, strength, conflict, in-group loyalty, cannibalism, and a general lack of empathy, are the things that Gwen associates with everything she cared about ending horribly. Pyre still demonstrates all of those value differences, he just doesn't like his bosses because they've been lying to him.

The fact that Gwen will cooperate with him at all, even to her own benefit, is the only thing that bothers me about their interaction. It's not very believable. If Canadians killed and ate everyone I know because that's what Canadians enjoyed doing, then I met a Canadian who liked to talk about eating people a lot, I wouldn't be thinking 'hey, I wonder if this guy can be of help to me'.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

24 Nov 2010 at 16:19 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

The fact that Gwen will cooperate with him at all, even to her own benefit, is the only thing that bothers me about their interaction. It's not very believable. If Canadians ate my parents, and I met a Canadian who liked to talk about eating people a lot, I wouldn't be thinking 'hey, I wonder if this guy can be of help to me'.

I think you're forgetting the whole point of the quest chain:

To rescue the missing Vanguard troops.

This is like Clarice working with Hannibal Lector to find the missing girl....

Or, to put it another way, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". (although, even though she needs Pyre's help, I wouldn't call them friends).

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

24 Nov 2010 at 16:25 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I think you're forgetting the whole point of the quest chain:

To rescue the missing Vanguard troops.

This is like Clarice working with Hannibal Lector to find the missing girl....

Or, to put it another way, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". (although, even though she needs Pyre's help, I wouldn't call them friends).

Only Clarice didn't see a serial killer torture and eat her parents. Clarice is not a teenage soldier, she's studying to be a professional in dealing with serial killers. It's her job to talk to serial killers. It's Gwens job to KILL charr, and it's probably safe to say she enjoys her work a lot more than Clarice.

You're right though. I can definitely see how people could cooperate like that. If I was the one in Gwens place though, those Vanguard soldiers would be dead, because every offhand smartass comment from Pyre would earn him a smack in the mouth. I definitely wouldn't be biting my tongue if I was in her shoes, and I honestly think most people would react closer to how I would than how she does. That's why it's a bit odd to see so many people wondering why she isn't all Gandhi about it.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

24 Nov 2010 at 16:30 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Only Clarice didn't see a serial killer torture and eat her parents. Clarice is not a teenage soldier, she's studying to be a professional in dealing with serial killers. It's her job to talk to serial killers. It's Gwens job to KILL charr, and it's probably safe to say she enjoys her work a lot more than Clarice.

LOL, good point....

BTW, I took Pyre along with me with Gwen to find Keiran. Just for LOLs....

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

24 Nov 2010 at 17:24 - 71

Well if I had a choice, and Gwen did something to Pyre and then Pyre killed her..I'd be there going what the hell? Then I'd clap him on the back and say good job man, I was trying to get rid of her for a long time. Maybe I'd even help him.

Spookii

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

Southeast, USA

N/

24 Nov 2010 at 17:34 - 72

Meh. Miku clamped onto Thackery as soon as she saw him. Gwen had been bouncing around Thackery for a while. Even though she was offish, it was pretty obvious that she was mildly interested in him. She just didn't want to admit that to anyone (even herself).

RedStar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

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24 Nov 2010 at 18:49 - 73

On the Charr, because of the shamans, whole generations have been raised thinking a certain way. However Pyre went against the shamans. (But don't forget that the Charr and the Humans are at war, so it's kind of normal that they don't go hugging each other).

Quote:

Well you can cast spells that only do harm if some conditions are met. She could have cast empathy and backfire on him, and since he didnt try to attack or cast spells they had no effect.
Thats also a way to control people you know

I think it was more something like Wastrel's Worry because it did hurt him a little...but only a little...I mean if she almost brought him on his knee is 2 seconds, I would have liked her a little more.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

24 Nov 2010 at 18:54 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spookii

Meh. Miku clamped onto Thackery as soon as she saw him. Gwen had been bouncing around Thackery for a while. Even though she was offish, it was pretty obvious that she was mildly interested in him. She just didn't want to admit that to anyone (even herself).

She felt that she wasn't supposed to have a relationship with him, and her actions followed suit, with or without a conscious decision. It happens all the time with damaged women AND men. They grow up experiencing terror, loss, abandonment...and want to minimize that feeling in the future by distancing themselves from everyone except as necessary to achieve their goals. (Helping you kill Charr.) Keiran had to force himself upon her emotionally in order to open her up. She's conflicted by her desire for solitarity and a more primal desire for companionship.

Anyone who has known anyone with anywhere near the sort of upbringing Gwen had knows that her actions were normal, if not MILD.

Also, Keiran has a Dom fetish, and Gwen is a Dom. It's no surprise that she's a Dom mesmer to start with. He accepts her strong-handed ways because it turns him on.

Spookii

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

Southeast, USA

N/

24 Nov 2010 at 19:06 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

She felt that she wasn't supposed to have a relationship with him, and her actions followed suit, with or without a conscious decision. It happens all the time with damaged women AND men. They grow up experiencing terror, loss, abandonment...and want to minimize that feeling in the future by distancing themselves from everyone except as necessary to achieve their goals. (Helping you kill Charr.) Keiran had to force himself upon her emotionally in order to open her up. She's conflicted by her desire for solitarity and a more primal desire for companionship.

Anyone who has known anyone with anywhere near the sort of upbringing Gwen had knows that her actions were normal, if not MILD.

Also, Keiran has a Dom fetish, and Gwen is a Dom. It's no surprise that she's a Dom mesmer to start with. He accepts her strong-handed ways because it turns him on.

Pretty much my point. Just because Gwen didn't throw herself on Thackery like Miku did, doesn't mean that she didn't want him. Gwen had lost everyone she had ever loved, knew only fear and hatred for a great portion of her life, and even after her escape she carried a LOT of baggage. Anyone would be afraid of entering into a relationship with someone when both you and your loved one are in a world like they are in, doing the jobs that they do.

Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if Gwen felt a sense of guilt about letting Thackery in at first. Perhaps she felt like she owed it to her family to dedicate her life to the destruction of the Charr, and Thackery would be a distraction from that.

Miku, on the other hand, just went goggley-eyed at his rippling muscles as he pulled his bowstring back. She melted as he offered his aid to poor villagers in Beetletun. How much did she know about him, really? Well, he uses a bow.

...

...

...

He's such an Edward to her probably, rofl. Tall, dark, handsome, mysterious, and very sweet. I'm not saying that she didn't have any right hitting on him, if she likes him, all the power to her. But I'm definitely glad that Thackery stayed for Gwen.

All sorts of reasons validate Gwen's actions towards Thackery and vice versa, imo. The world isn't a fairy tale, there doesn't have to be a perfect beginning for it to be a perfect ending.

Reokuma

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2011

Very small island south of Elona called Kumaki

Shadow Blade Assassins [Sins]

R/Me

05 Jan 2011 at 11:00 - 76

I HATE Thackeray with a passion. I hate even more that his descendant is a big name in Guildwars 2. He is such a weak pathetic existence in Guild wars. Hes annoying makes you run pointless tasks (scavenger hunt) gets lost a lot apparently, a terrible soldier, (when he should be fighting char hes planting a garden) and on top of everything else he stole Gwen from the amazing Ookami Scribe of the Shadow Blade Assassins.

Reokuma

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2011

Very small island south of Elona called Kumaki

Shadow Blade Assassins [Sins]

R/Me

05 Jan 2011 at 11:13 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

ITT: guys who are sensitive about women's opinions of their hair.

Oh, and yeah, as for hating the Charr... imagine the nazis ATE their victims in concentration camps. Now imagine you were in a concentration camp as a child, escaped, and met an SS officer. Feel ready to forgive and forget? The only thing I didn't like about Gwen's interaction with Pyre is that she doesn't cut his throat in his sleep.

'But Pyre is fighting the shamans too!' BS. The enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend. He still holds the same values that led him and those like him to destroy everything you ever loved. Then eat it if it had legs.

The Charr aren't Nazis at all if anything in the plot of guild wars the humans are the Nazis. While the humans fight the char to exterminate them and conquer all of Tyria. the Charr fight the humans to reclaim the land that was stolen from them. Ive always seen the char as a collection of native American tribes. The charr were originally detached from religion. It wasn't until the Charr started to worship "gods" that pyre and the warband turned on them to protect their beliefs.

joseph Mckennie

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2009

Ordo Assassinorum

R/Rt

05 Jan 2011 at 13:04 - 78

I don't think either of them would be considered nazis, really. Aside from maybe the charr's military tactics of 'hit really hard with everything we have' but the charr never really struck me as deep thinkers who resort to spies and subterfuge. Surely, they're capable of such higher thinking, but their culture encourages them to just "see a problem, hit it with a stick". And to the point of Gwen, she's not the only one who was held captive by the charr as a child. Almost all of the vanguard has had their families annihilated by them, or some similar traumatic event. But they didn't turn into cold heartless shrews. Gwen just didn't take it so well. I'm sure some people would respect her "I'm going to seek blind vengeance and hate everything for absolutely no reason, even though not everything is a charr" but you cant expect others to also not hate her for being so selfish and cold...and shrew-like (I'm sorry, she just kind of reminds me of a shrew.)

Prince Rogrs Nelson

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2010

Reign of Judgment (RoJ)

Me/

05 Jan 2011 at 18:01 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spookii

Pretty much my point. Just because Gwen didn't throw herself on Thackery like Miku did, doesn't mean that she didn't want him. Gwen had lost everyone she had ever loved, knew only fear and hatred for a great portion of her life, and even after her escape she carried a LOT of baggage. Anyone would be afraid of entering into a relationship with someone when both you and your loved one are in a world like they are in, doing the jobs that they do.

Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if Gwen felt a sense of guilt about letting Thackery in at first. Perhaps she felt like she owed it to her family to dedicate her life to the destruction of the Charr, and Thackery would be a distraction from that.

Yeah, the reason it bothers me so much is because it keeps reminding me of my sort-of-ex-gf.

If I could summon the guts to get rid of the "sort of" part I might like Gwen a little more.

Xiaquin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2010

[aRIN]

R/

05 Jan 2011 at 20:47 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reokuma

/snip

This is all moot when it was Abaddon who really is the root of all evil in the world.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Abaddon

In the grander scheme, Gwen and Pyre are both victims of what he wrought on all existence.