Survivor or Nightstalker?

Hey I am currently working on my Obsidian armor for assassin, and I want a new build up on the armor. I've been using a very successful group of runes and insignia:

Mask:
Crit Strikes +1 (stacking)
Dagger Mastery +1 (non-stacking)
Energy +1

Body:
Health +50 (non-stacking)
Health +15

Arms:
Crit Strikes +2 (non-stacking)
Health -35
Armor +10 (vs. physical)
Armor +10 (vs. blunt)

Legs:
Health +10
Health +10

Feet:
Energy +2
Armor +10 (vs. physical)
Armor +10 (vs. slashing)

It has been a very good set up for me, but I was wondering would it be better if i took out all the survivor and radiant insignias and replace it with Nightstalker [Assassin] insignias, which offer +15 armor when attacking. I've been thinking about this new set up and wondering if it is a good shot to go for. More armor would be nice if i would fail to hit a crit hit and lose crit defenses, but is the less health worth it? The only insignia I would have would be one radiant on body so I would have +3 energy, the rest would be Nightstalker x4. Maybe 2 runes of vitae to up my health to 545. What is the better set up? My old one, or more armor, less health?

i always run an soh hero for my sin, so i run blessed, but if u dont nightsalkers are better pve wise

Although keep in mind the 'while attacking' clause is quite literal. If you're not swinging, you don't get the armor boost. This is problematic when you're moving between foes or if aggroing (which is probably better left to someone else, but I imagine it's quicker and easier to do yourself). Given that foes tend to use their biggest hitting skills in the initial aggro, thats where you want the armor the most (this is less relevant if you let someone else aggro first though, as noted previously). +1 vote for Blessed.

PS: Armor is generally better than health.

About the 10 vs specific damage insignias you put,

"This bonus is not global and applies only to the armor piece equipped with the insignia." -wiki

... so it seems as if slashing damage will not be reduced if it doesn't hit your feet

I have survivor, blessed, and radiant sets for diff purposes...
Usually keep survivor and micro prot but I agree for blessed > nightwalker's

imo Nightwalker's has more down time (ie. while you approach enemies) and can be worse at certain times: Slow movement hexes, knockdown, etc

For PvE use Blessed.

You'll either have an enchant which you want on you all the time like SoH or Critical Agility, incidental enchants like Dwayna's Sorrow or Death Nova or you'll be getting direct prot or healing enchants when you take damage. Blessed is pretty much +10 armor vs. everything all the time.

xPc.

In response to radiant chest - Chest is the most important slot to have a blessed on as it takes the most hits. Your energy should be fine with critical strikes.

I see. Are you guys saying blessed for all, or for certain? I was thinking, if going by your suggestions, then blessed on all, but reserve chest for one radiant? Up my energy to 28, instead of 25. Do you think one less blessed would make a big difference, or is that good?

dont need extra energy on sin, full blessed

Quote: Originally Posted by mellow.yellow

I see. Are you guys saying blessed for all, or for certain? I was thinking, if going by your suggestions, then blessed on all, but reserve chest for one radiant? Up my energy to 28, instead of 25. Do you think one less blessed would make a big difference, or is that good? The armor you have is dependent on where you get hit, with chest having the highest chance for most attacks. If you don't have blessed on your chest, you won't get the +armor. If you want to guarantee having the armor, you have to run it on every armor piece. This is true for all types of +armor runes

Quote: Originally Posted by anonymous

The armor you have is dependent on where you get hit, with chest having the highest chance for most attacks. If you don't have blessed on your chest, you won't get the +armor. If you want to guarantee having the armor, you have to run it on every armor piece. This is true for all types of +armor runes Ah ok, I did not know that! Thanks guys, I very well appreciate it.

If you are in a party that has prot like a para or spirit prot then just stick with survivor. Again if you are being hit enough to need more armor then take a skill that means you get hit less imho

Having more hp is something a lot of people dont think is a big deal. You can have as much armor as you like but if you only have 400~hp and a boss hits you. byebye

Relying on +10al while enchanted.. what if you get stripped before you go in.. shatter enchantment = -100~ health.. so now you have 300 hp and less armor.. becasue your not enchanted.

While i agree having enchantments to prevent being attacked is good assuming you will have the enchantments up all the time giving you the armor to prevent you dying from lack of hp is silly

Quote: Originally Posted by Ok Dont Panic

If you are in a party that has prot like a para or spirit prot then just stick with survivor.

Having more hp is something a lot of people dont think is a big deal. You can have as much armor as you like but if you only have 400~hp and a boss hits you. byebye You're not making much sense. If you're properly protted you won't get spiked. If you're not properly protted... byebye indeed :P

Armor insignias won't save you from spikes (Survivor's won't either if you're not protted). But they will save energy for monks.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ok Dont Panic

If you are in a party that has prot like a para or spirit prot then just stick with survivor. Again if you are being hit enough to need more armor then take a skill that means you get hit less imho

Having more hp is something a lot of people dont think is a big deal. You can have as much armor as you like but if you only have 400~hp and a boss hits you. byebye

Relying on +10al while enchanted.. what if you get stripped before you go in.. shatter enchantment = -100~ health.. so now you have 300 hp and less armor.. becasue your not enchanted.

While i agree having enchantments to prevent being attacked is good assuming you will have the enchantments up all the time giving you the armor to prevent you dying from lack of hp is silly More armor = more effective health.

Let's say an enemy deals 80 damage to me, and I have 70 Base armor.

If I have 500 health and +10 more armor, I can take 9 hits. If I have 545 and base armor, I can take 8 hits.

And if I have Prot Spirit, then Survivors makes me take 55 damage instead of 50.

More importantly, Survivors is useful at only one point: the last hit before your die. That's it. Armour will count for each and every hit, and will make healers use less energy. Survivors will do absolutely nothing...except for that last hit.

I like to just go either full radiants , radiant chest and legs, or radiant head hands and feet, filling the rest with survivors since they're the only other globally effective insignia(maybe sometimes putting armor on the chest and legs, but statistically i don't think it matters much).

You're already made of glass, +10 al in this case only puts you at 80, and it'll be moot if you have a human paragon or warrior, or any one of many pve skills or consumables, or even a monk hench in the party. Even factoring shatters and strips there's like maybe 1 foe per zone that can 1 shot you, and not even then if you don't play stupid.

OTOH, radiants are useful in PvE, even with 13 in crit strikes. Stuff is generally going to be stronger then you, you won't always crit as much VS level 20+ stuff, and just because you get a refund on your attacks doesn't mean your other skills are any cheaper up front. The extra 5-8 energy can really help you open up a can of whupass in a fight, especially if you put on a pair of +5 zealous daggers too. Basically, once you learn how to not die, radiants let you kick soooo much ass.... (also, **** it, take major or even a sup rune, it's PvE, who cares...)

ATM my favorite thing is assassin's Promise, asuran scan, Shadow fang, then any number of attack chains(usually one of the following: black spider>twisting>malicious strike or sadist sig, black mantis>fox fang>twist or trampling, Iron palm>falling whatever>horns or twist, unsuspecting>fox>twist, stuff like that, usually with DB or Crit strike as a backup dual if AP gets cleaned or twisting fails or there's a HP beefy dungeon boss i need to spam on). Pop in, blow something up, beam out with full energy ready to hit again. Used to be shadow fang didn't have the after cast, but it's still cool to have an entrance and exit in one skill that insta charges with the rest of your stuff when something dies. Thing is you need 20e to set up the attack(25 if you have an ias or crit agility). Ordinarily this leaves you with about 5e to hit with and you have to pray for a crit. With the bigger pool, you get to use more fun stuff

i used to run full radiant and 3 months ago went full nightstalkers(which works well)

but ive been thinking of running blessed since i run flashing/SA build mostly,so while in transit im lacking armor alot.

~JaY~

Blessed is the best, hands down.

Survivor if you're a narcissist and like to see 620 in your health bar.

Nightstalkers suck.

This argument is as old as GW itself. With all the cons and dp removals in game nowadays it's a no brainer choice. +Armor over +Hp. What good is 465456hp when you're wearing paper thin armor? Anywhere between 500-600hp (cons included) is good enough for PvE. You can always weapon swap if you're getting hit hard and you need that lil extra bit of HP.

@OP - Don't use energy runes unless you're farming (eg. 55 monks). If you're ever running low on energy playing "any class". Change your tactics or change your build. Radiants won't fix your problem, it only delays it. Having a higher max energy pool isn't energy management. It just allows you to cast 1 more spell or use 1 more attack before you inevitably run out of energy, in which case you're back to square one again. As an Assassin primary you have 2 sources of energy. Your natural +4 regen and Critical strikes. You'll find that during normal play that those 2 things are what's actually keeping your energy up and that your Radiant insignia's having zero to do with it.

Quote: Originally Posted by mellow.yellow

Up my energy to 28, instead of 25. Do you think one less blessed would make a big difference, or is that good? An extra +3 energy isn't even enough to use 1 skill anyways. You won't miss it.

I run blessed mostly and would recommend it. Also you should get two headsets. I have a dagger mask and a crit mask so i can switch for w/e I'm running. so the dagger mask also has a minor dagger rune and the crit has a minor crit run. also dont run the +2 crit on the body. its not worth the -35 health it requires. if you keep your setup i would run a minor crit run all the while having blessed sigs and a health runes...i sometimes run a blind rune but thats for PvP more commonly. You do not need radients at all. people who run them need to rethink that option. if you have energy problems run a zealous weapon....easy as that.

In conclusion run blessed insignias and health runes + attribute runes.

The math works out that Blessed combined with a 30hp dagger mod is the strongest combination for survivability.