Rate my 7 hero build!

russiansteven

russiansteven

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2008

In a chair

R/Mo

Xandra (Standard modified SoS from spiritway)

13 restoration magic
16 channeling
4 spawning

OACjEyiM5MXzyZ1kZKNncDzLGA

SoS|Bloodsong|Painful Bond|Spirit Siphon|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|Protective Was Kaolai|Flesh of my Flesh|

Razah (Standard modified SoGM from spiritway)

3 curses
16 communing
13 spawning

OASjcMgMJPO7z23czFtzc2BnJA

SoGM|Shadowsong|Pain|Disenchantment|Anguish|Disson ance|Enfeebling Blood|Boon of Creation

Olias (AoTL)

OANEQVxG+JJHUFgHwFgGUPEQsFC

6 blood magic
16 death magic
9 soul reaping
9 protection prayers

AoTL|Animate Bone Minions|Blood of the master| Well of Blood|Death Nova|Protective Spirit|Aegis|Masochism|

Master of Whispers (Discord)
14 death magic
8 soul reaping
5 curses
9 resto magic

OAhkUwG4RFmTMzOgIqCWihJ1+iB

Discord|Enfeebling Blood|Shadow of Fear| Animate Bone Minions| Mark of Pain| Prot. was Kaolai| Recovery| Flesh of my flesh

Livia (Discord)
14 death magic
9 soul reaping
5 curses
9 resto magic

OAhkUwG4RFmTM7omxKDTOp54c3B

|Discord|Animate Shambling Horror| Weapon of Warding|Barbs|Spirit Light| Mend Body and Soul| Life| Rip enchantment (Not sure)|

Gwen=Panic
Norgu= Ineptitude

Both taken from this build: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_Mesway

Feel free to offer your advice and opinion about my 7 hero build below and perhaps tell me which skills you would replace and why?

Thanks!
(All builds can be modified)

My build:
9 spear mastery
9 expertise
15 beast mastery

Spear of Lightning| Barbed Spear| Poisonous Bite|Lightning Reflexes|Otyugh's Cry| Feral Aggression|Heal As One|

Thanks!

Arrogant Bastard

Arrogant Bastard

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2009

Your mom's house

E/

So you took something good (spiritway) and paired it with something mediocre (discord) and threw in Panic.

Throw out the discord and get some physical buffs (perhaps consider going melee).

pomagranite

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2010

Togo Stole My [LADY]

Rt/

this isnt a 7 hero team... this is like you and a friend are vanquishing and one brings spiritway and the other brings dischordway
if ur gonna mix and match i think sabway would be better with spiritway

domaspiragas

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2010

Dark Phoenix Risin [DPR]

D/E

I rate.......... bad

kbs8014

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2008

It's obviously a great build... absolutely great. Nothing new at all though and something that thousands of players will use. Anyone who rates this build bad does not get it. They can hate for the unoriginality but the build will easily do anything you want to do in the entire game except maybe UW, not sure about that.

The thing I would take out is the second mesmer... maybe play around with something else.

GwOxygen

GwOxygen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2009

N/

So you just combined spiritway with discord and mesway? GG?

Zodiac Meteor

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

Needs more paragon heroes, ER's and Mesmers.

pedrobds

pedrobds

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2010

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

N/

kbs8014 is absolutely right, if your going to tell me that discord does not work well for most areas then you are wrong. period. discord will blow threw nearly anything except the obvious with hex removal and so on. again just like kbs said, just because it isnt original doesnt mean it isnt going to absolutely dominate

FalloMeh

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2010

Faint Luminance [FL]

R/Rt

i rate....Awesome. good build, so many ppl are Haters. dont listen to the negativity bro

NerfHerder

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

Personally, I never put superior runes on my heros. Even on the AotL hero, your only getting one more minion out of the deal. I would rather they have the extra health. Maybe even trade AotL for another Discord. 3 Discords > 2. But, people love them some AotL so I understand if you dont.

If your going the discord route, I would add Asuran Scan to your bar so you can call the discord on the target you want. And you will do way more damage. Barbed Spear and Poisonous Bite provide good cover for conditions so your good there. You can also consider using Never Rampage Alone instead of Feral Aggression. What you lose on dmg youll make up for with the increased attack speed on your spear(+AS) and it gives a nice mending affect to counter degen.

On your Panic hero I would lose WW and add Power Drain. Your hero may have enough trouble keeping energy for Panic and WD. And I would use Energy Surge/CoF instead of the Ineptitude hero. Shadow of Fear, Enfeebling Blood, and Shadowsong should be enough anti-melee/physicals.

And yeah, dont listen to the haters. Alot of people will be combining popular builds when we get a full hero party. Especially Discord, Sab, Spirit, and some sort of Mesmer way. They are already vetted builds. No reason not to combine them.

Alternatively, you may want to look into some form of Physical/Racway/ER/Orders combination. Which I suspect will become much more popular when we get a full hero party. And even more so if Paragons ever get a rework/skill update.

Also, this thread may belong here. Alot of 7 hero build critiques are in there already.

russiansteven

russiansteven

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2008

In a chair

R/Mo

Taking out the Ineptitude and replacing him with a Searing Flames ele would be better or worse? (Of course with Mark of Rodgort and steam) Or the two discord necro's and replacing them with 2 SF eles?

Showtime

Showtime

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

WTB Q9+5e Bows/Q8 14^50 Weapons

R/P

LMAO of all these leet players chiming in saying it's a bad build.
Their misinformation is much worse than his build.

Unless key skills were nerfed, there's nothing wrong with his team. I should know since I've done basically the whole game with discordway and spiritway. People usually ask to borrow my other heros if they are running one or the other since it plays nice enough together in a 1 +6 heros team.

I'll be running more of a sabs with aotl mm and curses hero with my spear chucking ranger. Mainly cuz I love MOP... well that and it's so easy to play. I also like roj monks, sprits, mm, and me. No bodies... more nukage. Splinter barraging is good fun in some areas. Mesmers are viable. Discord is an option especially with my spreading conditions and all those group hexes. Be fun to run 3 rangers a para, elem, monk, splinter SOS rit... Would love to run a 100b or Axe Jora, but they'll never fix melee heros.
That's for my ranger... Won't have time to try all the combos my nec or warrior would run, but not a lot to change.

Arrogant Bastard

Arrogant Bastard

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2009

Your mom's house

E/

You can beat most of the game with random builds if you wanted.

This does not prove that discord is optimal. Compared to other hero builds, it has low DPS. Using it with physical damage dealers only widens this gap because there are so many options to buff yourself.

Now, if you like Discord, then congratulations, but that doesn't mean its the greatest shit ever. It's more like a mediocre, idiot-proof, spike build with too much defense and not enough DPS.

Klance

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2009

TtBE

Mo/Me

Honestly if your a physical yourself there is no reason NOT to run splinter weapon and SoH at a minimum on a 7-hero team (and even on a 3 hero team) they boost your DPS by alot.

Dusk_

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

At 16 Death, Discord is a 33 DPS single target ELITE skill.

Want to know what has a better DPS than that? Flare.

Marty Silverblade

Marty Silverblade

Administrator

Join Date: Jun 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post
At 16 Death, Discord is a 33 DPS single target ELITE skill.

Want to know what has a better DPS than that? Flare.
Only barely, and assuming you're attacking a 60AL, level 20 target. Your statement is false for anything non-trivial. If you're going to bash Discord, at least don't justify it with nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klance
Honestly if your a physical yourself there is no reason NOT to run splinter weapon and SoH at a minimum on a 7-hero team (and even on a 3 hero team) they boost your DPS by alot. Just to be picky, if the physical in question is a Ranger or Paragon (or anything using a bow or spear) then SoH would be useless as it only affects melee attacks.

Dusk_

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade View Post
Only barely, and assuming you're attacking a 60AL, level 20 target. Your statement is false for anything non-trivial. If you're going to bash Discord, at least don't justify it with nonsense. How is it nonsense?

Flare is crap against anything and everything. You bring it in normal mode, and it's crap. You use it against 60AL, level 20 targets, and it's still crap. But apparently when you make it an Elite Skill and shove it on Necros, it becomes great?

The comparison to Flare shows just how garbage Discord is. On it's own, it's absolutely terrible. On a full Hero team, you're taking out half an enemy health bar in 3 second intervals. If you're running an AP Caller, then you can actually kill an enemy every 3 seconds (maybe)...and that's assuming Discord is actually getting spammed every available chance.

So yeah, Discord is "great" if half of your team build is devoted to either supporting Discord or spamming it every chance they get...and fully optimized, that's still 24 seconds per mob at its absolute best.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

It's a crap argument because if Flare does more DPS than Discord then it also does more DPS than Rodgort's Invocation, which makes Rodgort's Invocation a trashy skill. Invoke Lightning does 140 damage / 8s cooldown = 17.5 DPS, which makes it worse than Flare as well.

I should critique the OP's build but I honestly am not interested right now, sorry

Dusk_

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
It's a crap argument because if Flare does more DPS than Discord then it also does more DPS than Rodgort's Invocation, which makes Rodgort's Invocation a trashy skill. Invoke Lightning does 140 damage / 8s cooldown = 17.5 DPS, which makes it worse than Flare as well.

I should critique the OP's build but I honestly am not interested right now, sorry Huh?

Of course I'm not comparing it to an AoE spike, or a PvP spike skill.

Discord is a damage skill used in PvE that is spammed as much as possible to spike down single targets, which is exactly what Flare is.

Now, if you wanted to argue that Discord has 2 seconds of unused time to cast other stuff, then you might have a point. If used as supplemental damage to a bunch of other skills, it could warrant an inclusion, but as your primary DPS source that uses up 4/8 bars? Not a chance.

Horus Moonlight

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post
How is it nonsense?

Flare is crap against anything and everything. You bring it in normal mode, and it's crap. You use it against 60AL, level 20 targets, and it's still crap. But apparently when you make it an Elite Skill and shove it on Necros, it becomes great?

The comparison to Flare shows just how garbage Discord is. On it's own, it's absolutely terrible. On a full Hero team, you're taking out half an enemy health bar in 3 second intervals. If you're running an AP Caller, then you can actually kill an enemy every 3 seconds (maybe)...and that's assuming Discord is actually getting spammed every available chance.

So yeah, Discord is "great" if half of your team build is devoted to either supporting Discord or spamming it every chance they get...and fully optimized, that's still 24 seconds per mob at its absolute best. Are you trying to compare fire damage to armor-ignoring damage?

Dusk_

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade View Post
Your justification was insufficient simply because it was completely false for any non-trivial situation. One thing Discord has over Flare is that it's armor ignoring, and so the level and AL of the foe does not matter. Flare will only outperform Discord when the foes AL is ~60 and their level is ~20. Those values are not good for comparison. More appropriate comparisons would be done in Hard Mode, at which you can expect 100AL (personal guesstimate) and level 24+. You can probably see this yourself, but if a 127 damage Rodgort's comes down to ~40 (66% reduction), a 68 damage Flare will come down to 23, which is 13DPS, adding in aftercast. 13 is not a larger number than 33. Except you would never even use Flare. The point isn't that Flare is better and that you should use it, it's that Discord is comparable to a terrible skill.

What's the difference between Discord in Normal mode and Hard mode? Absolutely nothing. So if the DPS is absolute crap in Normal, why is it so impressive in Hard Mode?

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post
Huh?

Of course I'm not comparing it to an AoE spike, or a PvP spike skill.

Discord is a damage skill used in PvE
that is spammed as much as possible to spike down single targets, which is exactly what Flare is.

Now, if you wanted to argue that Discord has 2 seconds of unused time to cast other stuff, then you might have a point. If used as supplemental damage to a bunch of other skills, it could warrant an inclusion, but as your primary DPS source that uses up 4/8 bars? Not a chance. Are you talking about Discord or Discordway?

Dusk_

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
Are you talking about Discord or Discordway? Both.

Discord is essentially an Elite Flare, and with Discordway you're just amplifying the issues by basing half of your team around it.

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post
Except you would never even use Flare
. The point isn't that Flare is better and that you should use it, it's that Discord is comparable to a terrible skill.
Quote: Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post
Discord is essentially an Elite Flare, and with Discordway you're just amplifying the issues by basing half of your team around it. It's not even close.
Ignoring for a minute that Discord is armour-ignoring whilst Flare is armour-sensitive, the fact that Discord does ~100 damage every 3-4 seconds puts it far above Flare.

To get Flare spam to deal as much damage as Discord on recharge, every second of your time available must be spent on casting flare. To get Flare to match Discord you would be completely immobile and unable to do anything else. And once you factor in higher armour levels Flare will never match Discord's DPS.

Your argument is laughable after a mere cursory glance.

Rushin Roulette

Rushin Roulette

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Right here

Ende

For a start, those MM builds are terrible together. Each bar alone is OK, but put them all together and it spells serious fail. The reason for this is:
1. AotL hogs all corpses in the area which will seriously hinder the other 2 MM Necros. You might as well change this to a 3rd Discord Necro or be imaginative and go for something completely new.
2. You have 3 Minion Masters. Lets imagine that all 3 MMs can get a full army of minions up (around 25-30 Minions)... Have you thought about what will happen if Olias casts BotM?

Take out that one skill and you should be OK.

All in all, the builds are not really very imaginative as others have said. They will work as they are working now if you go 2players / 6 Hereos. Theres not much more we can say apart from that.

EDIT: @ all others crying about Dicord vs. Flare 0.o Go troll another thread and leave this one to criticising and improving the OP build. There are enough threads saying "Discord rulz" or "Discord Suxz" go find one of them and carry on playing there.
EDIT 2: Bolded last edit... sigh.

Delete HB Already

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2009

none of yo business

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk_ View Post
Except you would never even use Flare. The point isn't that Flare is better and that you should use it, it's that Discord is comparable to a terrible skill.

What's the difference between Discord in Normal mode and Hard mode? Absolutely nothing. So if the DPS is absolute crap in Normal, why is it so impressive in Hard Mode? Most skills would do less damage in HM than NM because of armor and since discord is armor ignoring it is therefore not weakened in HM like most other skills would that are not armor ignoring. I am not saying that it is better in HM than other builds but it certainly doesn't decrease in damage in HM. Besides, running discordway with an AP caller and being able to micro discords all at once can kill the target immediately without it being able to be healed.

Dzjudz

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

Why does this have its own thread? This is just spiritway+discordway+mesway, he even says it in the OP.

russiansteven

russiansteven

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2008

In a chair

R/Mo

Thanks for the help (I guess)

Feel free to delete/remove this thread as I have moved on to a better build

No morez traz talk