Dungeon Difficulty

if you are mostly running spellcasters, consider bringing a paragon with a skill called "Hexbreaker Aria".

I was going through the dungeon with my other friend in the game. The skill helps ALOT.

Imo some dungeons are more annoying to reach in HM then the dungeon itself: Kath and Rragar(that are also enough hard by themself) for example, you must pass the burning forest in HM and it can be a pain...

not to mention, also have to zone 1 map for those dungeons...

Personally, dungeons i find difficulty (during z-bountys) are:

1. SoO (Fendi's Rit minions spike)

2. Vloxen Excavations (annoying respawns of the boss's minions, and right before that, parties tend to not move along to the boss's gate entrance).

Those are typically the dungeons where i had a hard time monking. We succeeded but it takes alot of mental energy to manage the party's conditions.

shards of orr and vloxen definitely! if u h/h them or full party them or SC them or solo them they are most annoying dungeons! Fmaw i would say ties w. SoO bc of final fight & vloxen is right behind them.

Bellok's mob has, IIRC;
One Summit Sage
One Summit Healer
A bunch of physicals, some of them from Slaver's and therefore equipped with Res Sig.
Bellok

And really, that's it. Everything else in that mob is trivial. If you've reached Bellok in HM you've already beaten the toughest mobs in that dungeon.
Sure his minions suck, but if you've been killing enough for minions to be a problem you've already got a lot of momentum and should be in a winning situation so you can take the time to kill a few of them.
Personally I think his Deathly Swarm is the scariest thing about him and flagging out neutralises it.
I'll admit wiping is a bit of a problem - if you pull back far enough (out of the corridor containing the shrine) you have a chance to res at the start of the level and keeping them all contained in that corridor with your heroes nicely spaced out should make killing their casters with AoE easier. With the amount of broken shit you can run thesedays, even H/H, you shouldn't be wiping at him.
And if you do wipe and get shrine camped, you can finish the dungeon from there on with 50 DP.


I would say the following three mobs are trouble:
The mob after the Warrior boss on level 1 in that corridor. They're a Slaver's Exile type mob and the first real test in the dungeon.
The Mesmer boss is also a pain, especially since the Mesmer update - Clumsiness is effectively spammed there by him and a Summit Sage and Discharge Enchantment basically has no recharge. Thankfully it is possible to separate the boss from the group and you can pull that mob quite a way to score kills.
The third test is a much harder Slaver's Exile style mob - the one on the slope beyond the lake/water pit. That has a Summit Defender, a Priest and a Demolisher.
If you can deal with the two Slaver's mobs without wiping, Bellok should not be a problem.

All that said, a caster can walk through this dungeon no problem with standard Spiritway. A physical only has to watch out for Discharge Enchantment and Clumsiness.


You think Frostmaw is on par with Fendi Ninn?
In fact, you think any part of Frostmaw's Burrows is on par with Shards of Orr?

Pain Inverter says Hi! back
About the OP-Some of these people might have been giving you dungeons they just plain don't like. For example if you like something difficult, sometimes you forget the difficulty level and are just playing the game, having fun and when you get back in town say "That was easier than.....(insert troublesome dungeon name here)"

It's been a long time since I've done it, but I recall Rragar's being an absolute pain. Resto and Smite Fleshreavers bundled up are just crap. Maybe I've improved since then, but I'm genuinely surprised there's not more love (hate?) for Rragar's on here. Of course, the boss fight isn't that hard, but the rest can be something else.

For difficulty of the entire sequence, I'd say:

-SoO (difficult mobs and boss)
-Rragar's (some crazy mobs on the lower levels)
-Vloxen/Kathandrax
-Else

Vloxen and Kathandrax are about the same to me. Really didn't have that much trouble in either except the Kathandrax boss fight is a bit broken (heroes don't pre-prot well, and Ilsundur can 1-2 shot you in NORMAL mode), and Vloxen does have the tough mobs mentioned numerous times in this thread. They were difficult, but I didn't find them insurmountable. Some of the folks in Shards and Rragar's made me want to pull my hair out though.

My top three difficult dungeons in HM would by SoO, Vloxxen and Rragar's, with the order depending on which profession I'm running at the time. I've seen a few people here saying that the hero update should make the dungeons easier (I agree that a formation update such as aoe dmg scatter would help), but it's possible that part of the update will be that the difficulty will be raised if you use all-hero parties (e.g. "hero mode" adds 5 levels to all enemies).

Besides Fendi Nin, SoO isn't really all that bad. Of course, Fendi Nin alone is enough to catapult that dungeon near the top of my list (after Vloxen and Rragars for HM) but worms and elementals are a whole lot worse to fignt than the undead and enchanted weapons in SoO. Thats my opinion at least.

It's like megaman x 6 vs megaman x 4 and 5, where in 6 you had these pushover bosses but just sadistic levels, and in 4 and 5 iirc the levels were easy, then you get to the boss....

Ranking the bosses(as a Warrior H&H Master of the north):
#1 Fendi Nin: You have to kill him like 5 times, since the rit buff those ghosties just suck... It's less painful with SY! and earthshaker but still... you got to prepare for an attrition style victory... and the walk is like forever...
#2 Islunder Lord of Fire: the henchmen(and tbh many pugs at the time) don't know what to do with the grenades and seem to dive in the giant ball of fire... Miss a KD or rupt and watch your party evaporate. another attrition boss.
#3 The Prismatic Ooze: I can't beat them in either mode without wiping at least once, it doesn't help that they turn invincible and when they die like a million of them spawn...
#4 The Rit frog in bogroots: if you're not ready for it his spirit rift is like training for duncan...
#5 Magmus: It's like the prismatic ooze but there's only 1. Miss a rupt or a KD and watch your party take a firey nap...
#6 Muraki Lady of the Night: I know you can run the **** but still, balanced H&H party, miss a KD or rupt, you can get 1 shot blammo'd.
#7 the yellow frog mesmer: Stronger since the buff but still less of a hassle then the red guy.
#8 Frostmaw the Kinslayer: It depends on how you did up to this point. If you got a lot of party wide DP or have had problems with the wurms up till her you'll pay for it here.
#9 The remenant of antiquities: The diamond sjard thing can get anoying, especially if he decided to hit you with ice spike or deep freeze right after.
#10 The TPS Regulator Golem: If he manages to get into the backline and pulse it can suck, and the flametraps and 2 other guardians don't really help, but using the tactics that got you this far make him managable.
#11: Arachni: If you position right he's easy, but it's that there's like a ton of them that spawn with him, and if you're not reasy his AoE can chop up H&H.

I'd say the remaining are either anticlimactic or not chalenges. Zoldak kill himself with his HP buff wearing off and saccing to res the minions, the Freezie's easy, and it's almost impossible to die in fronnis's lair. Rragar, Eldritch Etin, Plauge of Destruction and Havok soulwail are all very anticlimactic...

For the level itself:
#1 Vloxen Excavations. The grave pool at the bottom of the stairs can suck, the first encounter with the slaver dwarves is a meat grinder and there's a few other spots like that.
#2 I'm going to say Kathandrax. In level 2 there's that cave with the lava on the ground where you have to fight the mesmer doggies and the flowstones. It's like putting foil in a microwave. There's a few other spots like that, later where you're under seige on the bridges with all the burners and the part with the bugs can get lame if you get overwhelmed. It's not as bad if you go in "SWAT" style(special weapons and tactics, IE a water ele with malestrom and ward vs harm, a mesmer ect).
#3 I'm going to say Shards of Orr but, only if you don't go in "swat" style pumping holy damage. A trick is to go /rt and take Sight Beyond Sight and a smiter backing you up You'll steamroll everything. Mel derv kicks ass here too. Go with either of those and it's easy up till fendi.
#4 Frostmaw's in Hard mode(with the H&H) The last part with the rolly balls. You can get a bunch of them stuck in there, it's both funny and sad... Add to that the DP builders, and unless you have a guy with hex eater sig or hexbreaker aira you're not going to do well. It's also long.
#5 Not my personal experience but Rragar's can suck if you don't constantly micro the flags. Also it's a very labrynthine map, you can get lost up "Ooze Alley"(the west part of level 1 with the stalagmites, looks like dots on the map)if you don't know where you're going. Same deal with the running char locking the gate.
#6 Oola's lab, the fire trap lake without the golem protection can be frustrating for some players. Never had a problem with it myself, but I've seen rage in ACs. Intereting thing, if you spawn a dwarf ghost, I think they attack and kill the traps...
#7 The ooze pit, AoE, AoE, and giant rolly balls...
#8 Cathedral of Flames: In HM the Charr and undead can be a problem, as can the enchanted weapons. AoE and popups with taps and jets can suck.
#9 Heart of the shiverpeak(HM) They added a few extra Djin and flowstones to the last part, and the first area can be like SoO light if you're not prepared.
#10 Arachni's Haunt. It's like ooze pit with spiders...
#11 Bogroot's. The beetles get meaner, the area in level 2 with the floaty glowy things you can get cornholed by a mob of incubii...

The rest that I recall weren't much "harder" then the average VQ or zone. darkmine's yeti got buffed a bit so the necro ones and mesmer ones got slightly more dangerous, but they're not a huge threat in the numbers you fight. Raven's point is vaetirs and destroyers, both pushovers. The bloodstone caves poison spouts may be more dangerous then the enemies in there, even then, just side step them. Fronis is impossible to die in, and snowman lair is only kinda challenging when you have to go for the blue key on in the trap alley. Sepulcher is only hard if you let the Regents of Ice spike you.

Overall Boss+level...

#1: Shards of Orr
#2: Vloxen
#3: Kathandrax
#4: Frostmaw
#5: Heart of the Shiverpeaks

Wurms don't have any form of healing. Nothing in Frostmaw does.
You get 4 Norn Allies that love to tank for you.
You can take minions.
If you're still afraid there exists a spell called Ward of Stability.

Undead mobs have monks, do a lot of damage and spam blind.
You cannot take Minions into SoO.

vloxen : final boss is easy , the necromancer boss on 2nd floor is insane very large balanced group

SoO : this one is a pain , hard way through the dungeon , and hard boss

raven point : pretty annoying with all those AoE , i had to bring an ele warder to get through

Can I just say for a second... I agree!! Even for a hero!

Xandra does SURPRISINGLY well with a ST bar:

1 Soul Twisting (Elite)
2 Shelter
3 Union
4 Boon of Creation
5 Signet of Creation
6 Flesh of my Flesh
7 Pure was Li Ming
8 ?

She keeps perfect uptime on 1, 2, 3, and 4... she drops 7 like a champ. Dungeon life is pretty easy with a ST hero on board!

She has trouble with 5 though, and will often use it when no spirits are in earshot, but hey, she's a bot. The times she uses it properly make up for that.

Make sure that 8 is a skill that she'll use properly (without draining all her energy -- like Vital Weapon, she'll spam it on eeeeveryone all day and night). Also, make sure that 8 itsn't another Binding Ritual, because she'll waste ST charges on it.



Sorry for the brief de-rail, but lately I've been was pleased with Xandra's ST work lately. I just did a whole Master Dungeon Guide with her in tow and it was great. So when I saw you mention it I had to say something!

The solution is to shut down Bellok and his gang with a suitable mesmer. I rolled through Vlox HM for a customer on my mes. running a FD build. My team build did not suffer a single death in the entire dungeon. The only con used was a celerity in lvl2.

My top 3 for HM :
- Vloxen/ Slavers ( i put both coz in fact , it's groups of stone summit which usually make the dungeon hard.., rest of it being easy)
- SoO
- Heart of shiverpeaks ( with Magmus)

These , maybe except Magmus , are hard because they're almost impossible to do w/o some meta bars or bonus items. Other dungeons aren't especially hard ....

Wow so much hate for bellok! I've never even seen a problem there, it's the few groups before him (first the res shrine tunnel and then the pool-slope group(s)) that are the problem in my experience. And the first slaver-style group on the first level after the first boss.

I'll mention the next three:

- Vloxen Excavations (11.55%)
- Rragar's Menagerie (8.49%)
- Darkrime Delves (7.93%)

I'll have to disagree with most people here.

I do most HM dungeons with h/h or occasionally 1 or 2 others from my guild. When going with a guild team, I find all of the dungeons except Duncan easy enough to finish without much difficulty. When i go with H/H, it's a different story.

Hardest is SoO, definitely but for me the 2nd hardest has to be the Ooze Pit. Most of you have said it's easy, but it has never been easy for me. I just cannot finish that one with h/h without multiple wipes and i usually abandon it. (no cons, i don't use cons outside DOA)

The rest of the dungeons aren't difficult for me at all. Kathandrax and Vloxen used to be a pain when i first started dungeons, but I've been through both of them enough that I can usually finish with no wipes.

Rragar's, Frostmaw are fun. Frostmaw is probably my favorite dungeon and as long as you control your aggro, not a problem. The rest of the dungeons I'd consider easy.

Then again, that snowman dungeon has a "Difficulty Master" rating. It must be tough!! I'm scared to try it.

Kathandrax for me, its the only one where bodyblocking doesn't trivialise the difficulty

This. PUGs and H+H tend to make it or break it on one of those two mobs. (PUGs usually on the first and H+H usually on the second.) Bellok has never given me much trouble.

The punchout extravaganza. I have to pop cons just to beat nm, hm.. no weigh, umpossible.

Vloxen used to be hard.

Then I discovered Banishing strike + splinter weapon

hurr durr 12 characters

Tip: When foruming, learn to recognize obvious sarcasm.

I can't imagine anyone actually having difficulty with Fronis, except for lag which seems to happen more there than anywhere else. Conspiracy?

Shards of Orr & Rragar's were the only two I could not H/H.

SoO is only hard because of the boss, the hench love to ball up and die to clamor of souls. Somehow when I flag them, as soon as the crewmen pop up, they all run together and die.

Rragar's only because of the jesus cannons.

I would put Selv from slaver's as the third hardest.

I've never really had a problem with Vloxxen.

I would have to say that shards of oar it is very difficult but it’s really a tossup between that and ooze pit, although I must say that I’m getting used to ooze pit now. but out of the two shard way more difficult at the end.

Shards of Orr, never had much problem with any of the others.
Probably because of the blindspam mostly though, considering I tend to play martial classes and use martial-based team builds (and even when I do play a caster, I tend to use a martial-ey based build).
Come prepared though and it's also pretty easy.

Though Vloxen can be a pain too if you are unlucky and the Stone Summit mobs keep beelining for your Frozen Soil, which they'll make quick work of if they do decide to focus it even when it's powered by a beefed up Spawning Power/Communing Rt.

I personally had no real problems with any of the dungeons. It's all about hero setup. For the ones people find hard...

Shard of Orr: Load Roj monks, bring a ST rit with a dedicated healer and its easy mode. Revracs 7 hero build can be used by all classes except warrior and can get you to the end chest in 30 minutes. If using a Warrior I would run imba and bring AS. Probably one of the hardest bosses in EoTN because of his minions. Trick is to body block Fendi and RoJ him to death. A ST rit will hold off the massive AoE damage.

Vloxen Excavations: Frozen Soil with some meta hero setups. Last Boss is a joke, kill his minions and never focus on the boss to damage him. I brought a RoJ monk with prot skills and wrecked him

Frostmaw Burrows: Wurm Bile? Inspired/Revealed Hex says hi. RoJ melts through the wurms. Last boss is a joke with a ST rit

Rragar's Menagerie: Meta builds can wreck this place. Hardest part is actually the 2 Flesheater bosses but they ball if dragged out of their cave so AoE shines. When it comes to the RoJers just be ready to flag your heroes immediately. Last boss is a joke, kill Rragar first then Hidesplitter.

Catacombs of Kathandrax: I didn't really have trouble with this one either. As wiki says equip melee weapons on all heroes and you then flag them within melee range of the flame djinn. I imagine the final boss is what people are having trouble with since 2 fire boulders circle around the room and his use of Savannah Heat and Liquid Flame along with fire shield and fire bomb. Pain Inverter will eat his health like no other spell and flagging heroes in the middle of the boulders paths will avoid instant deaths. Prot skills and an ST rit take care of fire shield and fire bomb.

To put it into one word... research. Research will make any dungeon easy.

for me it would be in order slavers,SoO,Vloxen and fronis. only reason i said fronis is my ping and i tend to lag during large mobs. >>

can you do dungeons on guildwars? im only comparing this to world of warcraft? i have all campaigns and eotn

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dungeon

Kathandrax HM was hard form me at first, but then was comfortably doable with Ward Against Harm, Pain Inverter, and heroes with either mantra of flame or frigid armor. It takes ages though, but I managed to beat every level with morale boost on my party (got a little squished by the fire orbs at the end boss, but thankfully his health doesnt regenerate).

If you adjust your builds you can get through all of the dungeons on HM without too much difficulty.

This is true for any part of the game.

SoO was the only one in the OP's list that I remember seriously challenging me in HM with heroes.

There are only two spots where I can remember becoming overtly angry while playing.

The first is Fendi; the other is the huge groups of fleshreavers in Rragar's. I swear one of them had six or seven smiters and three ritualists. Couldn't even pull properly, they killed me so fast...

It's hard to believe this thread came back from over eight months ago. Hell, this was a time 7 heroes didn't exist.

Maybe I should do an updated version?

Rragar's wasn't that hard for me, even with that nephilim boss on the third level that usually kills me in NM. I dominated him when I did that on HM and the boss had nothing on me as well, I found it pretty easy.

SoO I've never tried with H/H but I'd suspect it was annoying. Same with Kathandrax, in NM it's just a bit long with H/H not hard really.

Vloxen is a pita, that mesmer boss wiped me 2 times I think. But I was able to wipe through after that for whatever reason.

Like many people stated in the posts above me;

Dungeons HM and NM are pretty easy if you know what you're doing, so; make good builds that could cope with what you encounter in that particular dungeon (i.e. Scourge Healing and KD's work good in Vloxen and Slavers, for those nasty Stone Summit groups, RoJ works good in CoF and SoO, ST hero rit is pretty much oblgiatory in overcrowded dungeons where you can't always safe-pull, and different groups are close to each other), before you get in, check wiki for what foes/skills u might encounter, and which route is fastest/safest, bring some self cons, or dp remove if needed, and (most important of all) don't overaggro in HM and flag heroes sometimes so you can pull safely!

Imo there are 2 sides to this question....With knowledge and without knowledge.

Without knowledge soo was a pain so was ooze pit tbh

With knowledge soo is cake walk and so is ooze pit

By the time most get to slavers they have an understanding on dungeons and thus not as challenging as they would be.

So in short....the hardest dunegons for me were the ones I started with.

Heh, I forgot about that. I did all those HM dungeons with H/H, I wonder how much easier they'll be now...