Healer's Boon is terrible compared to Restoration
LifeInfusion
In today's world where SoS is run everywhere, the only use for 2 monks is hex heavy areas (D-Kiss heals for like 200+) and Party healing (Seed of Life, Divine Healing + Heaven's delight, Healing burst).
The backbone of a Restor rit
SoS rit has 3 spirits minimum + Bloodsong + Vampirism = 5 spirits commonly used
--> Add Life = 6 spirits. We have a total of 10 conditions and it is unlikely you will have more than 6.
--> (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Burning, Weakness, Cracked Armor, and Deep Wound)
* Mend Body and Soul = 96 at 12 Restoration, 109 at 14 (why run Dismiss other than for the paltry 80ish-90ish heal+DF)
* Spirit Light = 156 at 12 Restoration, 172 at 14 (Word of Healing heals 203 at 14 + DF, Burst heals 150+DF at 14)
* Soothing Memories = 82@ 12, 94 at 14
* Wielder's Boon = 51+63 @ 12, 57+71@ 14
* Rejuvenation
* Life (6-7 health * 20 seconds =120 to 140 part wide)
* Pure was Li Ming (partywide 3-4 condition removal)
* Weapon of Warding (10 energy un-strippable Guardian)
* Weapon of Shadow (newly buffed)
Why Healer's Boon fails
Here's why HB is terrible: PWK is on 25 cooldown for 10 energy. Glyph is on 30 cooldown and Heal Party is 15 energy. Glyph + Heal Party costs 10 energy and is effectively a 2 second cast since you need to Glyph it.
PWK at 14: 80 HP
Life at 14: 140 HP every 20 seconds
Heal Party at 14: 72 = 108 after HB
You can also pop Rejuvenation in between on the Restor rit (or use Feast of Souls or Spirit to Flesh) and if you run Spirit's Gift, you get an added nearby area heal. If you're lucky, your 40/40 set can reduce recharge on PwK. Glyphs never get recharge reduction. Both spirits are 10 energy, but can be subsidized by Spirit Channeling, spirit siphon, and/or Boon of Creation.
Single target heals
If you count single target heals @ 14 Healing prayers:
D-Kiss = 57+33 per hex/enchant = 86 + 50 per hex/enchant after HB --> with 2 hex/enchants heals 186+DF
Ethereal Light = 95 = 143 after HB + DF
Patient Spirit (same as Cure Hex) = (keep in mind it doesn't heal if stripped anymore)
Words of Comfort = 57+43 = 86+ 65 after HB
Healing Whisper = 96 = 144 after HB (half range)
Orison = 67 = 101 after HB
Why this thread is in Ritualist forum
Why is this is the Ritualist forum? To remind you lot that if you have 2 Rits in a team and only one monk, you don't have to run damage. SoGM, ST are options too.
The backbone of a Restor rit
SoS rit has 3 spirits minimum + Bloodsong + Vampirism = 5 spirits commonly used
--> Add Life = 6 spirits. We have a total of 10 conditions and it is unlikely you will have more than 6.
--> (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Burning, Weakness, Cracked Armor, and Deep Wound)
* Mend Body and Soul = 96 at 12 Restoration, 109 at 14 (why run Dismiss other than for the paltry 80ish-90ish heal+DF)
* Spirit Light = 156 at 12 Restoration, 172 at 14 (Word of Healing heals 203 at 14 + DF, Burst heals 150+DF at 14)
* Soothing Memories = 82@ 12, 94 at 14
* Wielder's Boon = 51+63 @ 12, 57+71@ 14
* Rejuvenation
* Life (6-7 health * 20 seconds =120 to 140 part wide)
* Pure was Li Ming (partywide 3-4 condition removal)
* Weapon of Warding (10 energy un-strippable Guardian)
* Weapon of Shadow (newly buffed)
Why Healer's Boon fails
Here's why HB is terrible: PWK is on 25 cooldown for 10 energy. Glyph is on 30 cooldown and Heal Party is 15 energy. Glyph + Heal Party costs 10 energy and is effectively a 2 second cast since you need to Glyph it.
PWK at 14: 80 HP
Life at 14: 140 HP every 20 seconds
Heal Party at 14: 72 = 108 after HB
You can also pop Rejuvenation in between on the Restor rit (or use Feast of Souls or Spirit to Flesh) and if you run Spirit's Gift, you get an added nearby area heal. If you're lucky, your 40/40 set can reduce recharge on PwK. Glyphs never get recharge reduction. Both spirits are 10 energy, but can be subsidized by Spirit Channeling, spirit siphon, and/or Boon of Creation.
Single target heals
If you count single target heals @ 14 Healing prayers:
D-Kiss = 57+33 per hex/enchant = 86 + 50 per hex/enchant after HB --> with 2 hex/enchants heals 186+DF
Ethereal Light = 95 = 143 after HB + DF
Patient Spirit (same as Cure Hex) = (keep in mind it doesn't heal if stripped anymore)
Words of Comfort = 57+43 = 86+ 65 after HB
Healing Whisper = 96 = 144 after HB (half range)
Orison = 67 = 101 after HB
Why this thread is in Ritualist forum
Why is this is the Ritualist forum? To remind you lot that if you have 2 Rits in a team and only one monk, you don't have to run damage. SoGM, ST are options too.
Bandwagon
Old news, many rits with half a brain know this.
The problem is that pugs don't know this and short of adding a message on the login screen (even A-net doesn't use this feature to good effect), the average Pug will probably still insist on HB monks (UA has its place still since it can carry bads and the monk through missions).
The problem is that pugs don't know this and short of adding a message on the login screen (even A-net doesn't use this feature to good effect), the average Pug will probably still insist on HB monks (UA has its place still since it can carry bads and the monk through missions).
Zodiac Meteor
Ahem: Divine Favor.
Rits can heal, but the one of the reason's why people prefer monks is this attribute.
Orison = 67 = 101 + 32 = 132
Healing Whisper = 96 = 144 + 32 = 176
Heal more, with less casting.
Add some UA with Arcane Mimicry and you have 100% more healing power.
Rits can heal, but the one of the reason's why people prefer monks is this attribute.
Orison = 67 = 101 + 32 = 132
Healing Whisper = 96 = 144 + 32 = 176
Heal more, with less casting.
Add some UA with Arcane Mimicry and you have 100% more healing power.
FoxBat
Swapping to resto rit is a ton better than spamming LFMonk, plus requiring only one attribute you can easily hybridize your builds. That doesn't make healer's boon inferior healing though. It doesn't help your case when you completely ignore the divine favor attribute.
Part of Healer's Boon's allure is the ability to drop two big party heals back-to-back. This is good for recovering from disasterous AoE hits moreso than constant degen. The rit can sortof handle this with sandbagged PwK but again, not quite as well. Life and rejuv are great at fighting degen over time, but don't fire off exactly when needed in those situations.
Part of Healer's Boon's allure is the ability to drop two big party heals back-to-back. This is good for recovering from disasterous AoE hits moreso than constant degen. The rit can sortof handle this with sandbagged PwK but again, not quite as well. Life and rejuv are great at fighting degen over time, but don't fire off exactly when needed in those situations.
Wenspire
DivFav bonus, Faster cast times (with HB) and Seed of Life are why I would rather have a monk healing in my party.
For heavy AoE/DoT damage areas, I wouldn't mind having a monk healing and a ShelterUnionDisp rit running protection/damage-reduction.
I just haven't been much of a fan of runnning a Restoration build. Tried it a few times on my ritualist and always felt that my monk did better in that role.
For heavy AoE/DoT damage areas, I wouldn't mind having a monk healing and a ShelterUnionDisp rit running protection/damage-reduction.
I just haven't been much of a fan of runnning a Restoration build. Tried it a few times on my ritualist and always felt that my monk did better in that role.
Wish Swiftdeath
As a monk I agree that Healers boon is trash and that restoration is better. However pugs only run HB because they are idiots.
Pure heal monks suck and always have, good monks will bring skills like protective spirit, shield of absorption and seed of life.
Sorry if I sounded abrupt but it's frustrated me to no end when I join a pug and they ask me to change to a build with five healing skills. In my opinion I think a resto rit and a UA prot monk (with heavens delight/divine healing) would be a more viable option for pugs...
Pure heal monks suck and always have, good monks will bring skills like protective spirit, shield of absorption and seed of life.
Sorry if I sounded abrupt but it's frustrated me to no end when I join a pug and they ask me to change to a build with five healing skills. In my opinion I think a resto rit and a UA prot monk (with heavens delight/divine healing) would be a more viable option for pugs...
superraptors
healers boon is ran because of ease not because people are idiots, both has its advantages and synergy within a team... who doesnt want a 200+ heal hex removal? or an instant 120hp heal party, seed of life chuck that on a person taking damage, 200-300+heal party. protection monks arent ran anymore because everyone is using cons these days, simply there is no use for a prot monk in this state of pve, minus the cons and hardmode will require protting again.
i think alot of you are talking out of your arse saying rits are better. they are sub par healers only good for support
and many fights in pve dont last longer then 10 - 15 seconds energy is not a problem, if ur fights last longer then that then ur dmg is lacking, also many people run atleast 1 emanage skill wether it be glyph of lesser energy or pve skills
i think alot of you are talking out of your arse saying rits are better. they are sub par healers only good for support
and many fights in pve dont last longer then 10 - 15 seconds energy is not a problem, if ur fights last longer then that then ur dmg is lacking, also many people run atleast 1 emanage skill wether it be glyph of lesser energy or pve skills
Wish Swiftdeath
I feel far more effective preventing damage than spamming 200+ hp heals on someone desperately trying to keep them up, it's just stupid.
Of course if you're using 5 consumables and have an imbagon then yeah, protting is useless, but i'd also wager that more than one healer is unnecessary too.
I like to PvP and most pugs don't have the idea of aggro control, most monks use HB AND UA (With arcane mimicry), then they spam heals, topping everyone off at 90% health and run out of energy within those 10-15 seconds. As a pvp monk I find it incredibly inefficient and annoying to be out of energy all the time and waiting between every battle. It's just gimping yourself, why do it?
Sure if you're new to monking and you aren't very good, you probably won't be very good with spells like SoA and RoF, using big heals is understandable in this case but that doesn't make them better.
Of course if you're using 5 consumables and have an imbagon then yeah, protting is useless, but i'd also wager that more than one healer is unnecessary too.
I like to PvP and most pugs don't have the idea of aggro control, most monks use HB AND UA (With arcane mimicry), then they spam heals, topping everyone off at 90% health and run out of energy within those 10-15 seconds. As a pvp monk I find it incredibly inefficient and annoying to be out of energy all the time and waiting between every battle. It's just gimping yourself, why do it?
Sure if you're new to monking and you aren't very good, you probably won't be very good with spells like SoA and RoF, using big heals is understandable in this case but that doesn't make them better.
Wenspire
ST with ShelterUnionDisp is much better than having ProtSpirit when the group cannot control agro. Having a partywide 10% max-damage cap (that cannot be stripped) is great. Displacement is pretty much a non-strippable Aegis (but with 75% block) for everyone. This is why I'd rather have a Rit protecting and Monk healing instead of the other way around.
But honestly, I'd rather be running my Monk as prot and wouldn't care who was healing. =)
But honestly, I'd rather be running my Monk as prot and wouldn't care who was healing. =)
Necromas
Rit healers have two advantages.
They can more easily work in other offensive/utility skills and/or be necro primary for hax energy.
The AI plays them better.
A good player monk (whether or not they use healer's boon) can easily beat rit defense if they manage their skills and energy wisely. Except perhaps in certain situations where there's some specific team synergies or something about the mission makes rit skills particularly effective.
Disclaimer: PuG monks are often not good player monks and the popular monk builds are not the best ones.
A good hero monk can probably beat a hero rit's defense but they are more likely to screw up (using prots when they should heal, using conditional skills when the conditions aren't meant, and just being bad at energy conservation), and with hero based teams it's more useful to have healers with some offense/utility rather than just dedicating themselves to defense like a monk pretty much has to.
They can more easily work in other offensive/utility skills and/or be necro primary for hax energy.
The AI plays them better.
A good player monk (whether or not they use healer's boon) can easily beat rit defense if they manage their skills and energy wisely. Except perhaps in certain situations where there's some specific team synergies or something about the mission makes rit skills particularly effective.
Disclaimer: PuG monks are often not good player monks and the popular monk builds are not the best ones.
A good hero monk can probably beat a hero rit's defense but they are more likely to screw up (using prots when they should heal, using conditional skills when the conditions aren't meant, and just being bad at energy conservation), and with hero based teams it's more useful to have healers with some offense/utility rather than just dedicating themselves to defense like a monk pretty much has to.
LifeInfusion
See: http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8108/uahb.png , http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3...bhealparty.png
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/a...1&d=1292782373
14 DF spec gets you 89 on DH/HD, 14 spec heal gets you 108 Heal party.
111 Heal party with 14 Heal 13DF and UA.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/a...1&d=1292782373
14 DF spec gets you 89 on DH/HD, 14 spec heal gets you 108 Heal party.
111 Heal party with 14 Heal 13DF and UA.
Premium Unleaded
You'd be surprised at the number of players in the game that can't even manage to run the ST bar properly; they don't know how to priortise spirits, they don't know you should not put the spirits inside aggro range unless unavoidable, but worst of all, they don't know that the whole point of running it is that you maintain the spirits - or at least the most pertinent one(s) if not all of them - during combat.
LifeInfusion
My ST hero needs minimal micro. It's a stupid bar that I would never play as a player.
Boon of creation (optional)-->ST--> Shelter--> union ---> Displacement--> Armor of unfeeling
2-3 optionals.
If someone can't 1-2-3-4-5-6 and pop a spirit when it goes down they deserve to be shot with Magebane to the face. And ST has instant recharge so that wouldn't do much.
Boon of creation (optional)-->ST--> Shelter--> union ---> Displacement--> Armor of unfeeling
2-3 optionals.
If someone can't 1-2-3-4-5-6 and pop a spirit when it goes down they deserve to be shot with Magebane to the face. And ST has instant recharge so that wouldn't do much.
Ghull Ka
I really enjoy reading conversations like this, it's nice to see informed people talking about the nuts-and-bolts of the game.
I do think, though, that Seed of Life's prevalence (usefulness?) and basic overpowered-ness makes it hard to replace a Monk with a Rit in your basic pug situation. People want to hedge their bets with overpowered goodness, even though something less flashy will get the job done.
I do think, though, that Seed of Life's prevalence (usefulness?) and basic overpowered-ness makes it hard to replace a Monk with a Rit in your basic pug situation. People want to hedge their bets with overpowered goodness, even though something less flashy will get the job done.
Wenspire
Nearly any type of healing class/build can keep a party alive when you have a minion master and sos in it. There's just too much damage mitigation from minions/spirits to require much healing to be needed.
I was never a fan of health-over-time. Sure, looking at pure numbers it seems great. However in a pressure situation, regenerative healing generally has less chance to keep a person alive compared to a straight full-on heal skill.
I was never a fan of health-over-time. Sure, looking at pure numbers it seems great. However in a pressure situation, regenerative healing generally has less chance to keep a person alive compared to a straight full-on heal skill.
AndroBubbles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wenspire
Nearly any type of healing class/build can keep a party alive when you have a minion master and sos in it. There's just too much damage mitigation from minions/spirits to require much healing to be needed.
I was never a fan of health-over-time. Sure, looking at pure numbers it seems great. However in a pressure situation, regenerative healing generally has less chance to keep a person alive compared to a straight full-on heal skill. Yes, but this is where restoration ritualists shine as well. Their spot heals are extremely powerful, so they can afford to bring such huge party maintenance skills. You'd have to get at least 2 enchantments/hexes on your target just to match the healing from spirit light with dwayna's kiss, and that's with healer's boon. The unconditional raw healing I can get from a restoration ritualist easily matches a monk when used correctly, even if that monk has HB or UA, and even then I can still split attributes to further assist my party. I also get condition removal in the same attribute, allowing for further bar compression. Monks have a huge advantage when it comes to preprotting, since shelter is sometimes a bit tricky to work with PuGs, but I've yet to see a viable argument against the healing/support capabilities of a ritualist.
I was never a fan of health-over-time. Sure, looking at pure numbers it seems great. However in a pressure situation, regenerative healing generally has less chance to keep a person alive compared to a straight full-on heal skill. Yes, but this is where restoration ritualists shine as well. Their spot heals are extremely powerful, so they can afford to bring such huge party maintenance skills. You'd have to get at least 2 enchantments/hexes on your target just to match the healing from spirit light with dwayna's kiss, and that's with healer's boon. The unconditional raw healing I can get from a restoration ritualist easily matches a monk when used correctly, even if that monk has HB or UA, and even then I can still split attributes to further assist my party. I also get condition removal in the same attribute, allowing for further bar compression. Monks have a huge advantage when it comes to preprotting, since shelter is sometimes a bit tricky to work with PuGs, but I've yet to see a viable argument against the healing/support capabilities of a ritualist.
LifeInfusion
On my monk I explicitly run GIft of Health @10 with UA @ 16 , DH/HD just so I don't feel intimidated by Restoration magic. You can't pop a 90-103 party heal on a Restor rit every 7.5 seconds, Seed for +28-32s, strip up to 4 hexes (Deny hexes on UA+DH+HD), AND res instantly.
Wenspire
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroBubbles
Yes, but this is where restoration ritualists shine as well. Their spot heals are extremely powerful, so they can afford to bring such huge party maintenance skills. You'd have to get at least 2 enchantments/hexes on your target just to match the healing from spirit light with dwayna's kiss, and that's with healer's boon. The unconditional raw healing I can get from a restoration ritualist easily matches a monk when used correctly, even if that monk has HB or UA, and even then I can still split attributes to further assist my party. I also get condition removal in the same attribute, allowing for further bar compression. Monks have a huge advantage when it comes to preprotting, since shelter is sometimes a bit tricky to work with PuGs, but I've yet to see a viable argument against the healing/support capabilities of a ritualist.
Actually, at 15 restoration vs 15 heal/13 divfav (which is what I normally run on healing builds), it only requires 1 enchant/hex for dwayna's kiss to rival spirit light and no condition for ethereal light to surpass it, with hb active. Both skills also cast in half the time which is an important quality in a pressure situation.
With soul twisting, there shouldn't be problems having shelter ready ever at any time.
With soul twisting, there shouldn't be problems having shelter ready ever at any time.
reaper with no name
Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0
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Quote: Originally Posted by I Perma Mobs Then: UA is an instant rez with max health and energy. Another thing no ritualist could HOPE to match. And it works as a +50-60% more healing power on all monk heals.HB is of a lowre efficiency than UA, but is still useful, because we get 50% faster casting times and no energy degen. Burst of Healing is also a good option over this. This isn't, were talking about HB, I think we all know what UA and Healing Burst does. Too bad were talking about HB vs Rit resto.
Quote: Originally Posted by I Perma Mobs When playing in PvE, your heroes are supposed to be doing the pressure healing. They have alot faster reflexes than you have and they can mitigate dmg better, as well as drop a PwK faster. You get the spikes. If I wanted to catch spikes I would run Word of Healing, not HB.
Quote: Originally Posted by I Perma Mobs Tbh, ritualists can't do any of these. Spot healing? sure, after 1 second cast time, and not nearly as strong as a patient spirit/d-kiss(cmon, every1 can easily hit the requirement. just from dwaynas sorrow that my JB hero spams on the party its 1 enchantment and almost all hero builds/henchies have enchs like masochism or attunements) On average my d-kiss heals for 250 health. D-kiss is pretty easy to exploit with UA/HB. But WoH is nearly identical and as you said, both do what the human player is supposed to do, stop spikes. Hell, WoH works on yourself, is powerful irregardless of hex / enchant use and denial and gives you the HP when you need it, as a pose to overhealing. Without derailing, WoH provides more room for monks (especially human monks) to use prot and tri-spec.
Quote: Originally Posted by I Perma Mobs Rits only have 3 good skills 2 play with as resto. spirit transfer which is an incredibly awesome "infuse-like" skill, heals for a huge ammount of health at 10 energy, without any loss as severe as infuse. and its 1/4 cast. Mend body n soul is the other thing, synergizes very well with an SoS build. bad heal, but awesome anti condition. And then, PwK, can serve as an insta anti aoe. Rejuv and Life says hi. As does Weapon of Warding, Rit Lord, Spirit Channeling, Boon of Creation, Signet of Creation, Spirit Light etc.
hell if your running with multiple rits / GDW midline, throw in Wielder's Boon.
Quote:
Quote: Ritual lord has its uses. Again, not one of my favorite elites for pve, especially restoration ritualists, but it does have a few purposes that it does well. same thing as rejuvenation. WHY on earth mention it, if you say you'll ignore it? and on top of that, it means you can't take your so-loved spirit channeling.
WoW: 50% block for 7 seconds (8 with 14 resto. with your spawning power, should go up to 10). regen? lol? that's not healing. heros remove all conditions unless its aoe wide(and even then..) and suffering is rare.
so yeah. 10 energy block. also note guardian will be increased by enchantment weapon, means it'll last 8 seconds on a prot monk.
NOT talking about proting, are we?
And to counter your argument of assuming the monk is shit:
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I could say that it's an advantage to ritualists that I do not have to use my primary to get the most use from this skill
How could you say this, when the ONLY other class doing major heals is monk? (note, this skill is monk). It just doesn't make any sense. It's blockhead tbh. Quote:
Health regen is a form of healing, whether you like it or not. I don't know why you're bringing up conditions here, since they have nothing to do with the skill. I personally like being able to have an unstrippable small heal+50% block that lasts a little longer than guardian, and if I'm able to manage my energy around it, it's all the better.
I'm not talking about the entire GW population here, but the way you talk it's as if everybody is bad, whereas I talk about skills in terms of their potential in the event that they're being used by a good player. I do not argue that some people are bad, and when I'm with a PuG I will allow for this by taking fail-safe skills sometimes. It seems (according to you) that by slightly altering a build to accommodate for another person's lack of experience I am contradicting my entire mindset for the game, and I'm not entirely sure why this is true. Quote:
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