Glint, The Mystery of the Gods, & Kuunavang (Spoilers?) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

coryorth

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

W/Mo

05 Jan 2011 at 19:55 - 1

(Edge of Destiny Spoilers below)
Contains information from Edge of Destiny.

So basically we now know that glint was the champion of Kralkatorrik. But what doesn't make sense to me is how wiki mentions the following.

Quote:

"She was the first creature placed on the continent of Tyria by the gods to oversee the new world. As time went on, she was given servants - The Forgotten, to aid her in this task"

Yet...

Quote:

The Elder Dragons are primordial creatures dating back to no later than the time of the Great Giants, long before the arrival of the gods in Tyria.

So in my eyes this calls 2 things into question. We know for sure that Glint is the champion of the elder dragon Kralkatorrik yet it also says she was born of the gods. Yet either idea contradicts one another. So where does wiki get it's info from. Usually they take it from tablets and link the source. But I see nothing of this.
Also, this calls into question lorewise where the Gods get their powers from. I and friends have pondered that maybe the gods took the power from the dragons maybe. Yet remained uncorrupted. This is just a theory, but it's a possibility. Afterall, i've noticed a few things.

Surely i'm not the only one that notices the similarities? Maybe we could be looking at information in the future we find out about the gods themselves.
It honestly would explain the silence of the Gods. You steal a candybar from a store and now the store owners out looking for you. So the little kiddies go hide, :P.

And now Kuunavang

Quote:

Her connection with the Elder Dragons is revealed in Edge of Destiny, the second Guild Wars novel. The Movement of the World has stated that she and Kuunavang are as different to them as night and day.

Could this mean Kuunavang could be the champion of the Deep Sea Dragon (Bubbles?)?

Feel free to discuss

dancing gnome

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

House of Wandering Souls

R/Rt

05 Jan 2011 at 19:58 - 2

Glint came after the other dragons. The "lore" which claims she was one of the oldest creatures was rectonned using the excuse that it was written from the human perspective and thus is wrong.

coryorth

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

W/Mo

05 Jan 2011 at 20:05 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Glint came after the other dragons. The "lore" which claims she was one of the oldest creatures was rectonned using the excuse that it was written from the human perspective and thus is wrong.

Well, I was mostly curious if this was in a cutscene where she says she was put in tyria by the gods that I forgot about. But the tablets would support your idea. But from glint herself would make me curious. I still want to know where the info comes from. Source pls? ^^

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

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05 Jan 2011 at 20:15 - 4

To the similarity between Zaithan (that's Zaithan right?) and Mallyx, dunno, Mallyx isn't a god, but he is god-like. He wants to overthrow Kormir and take Abbadon's place.. So, perhaps the dragons are also god-like and everything that's shiny and purple has some evil power?

MArcSinus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2010

The Netherlands

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05 Jan 2011 at 20:18 - 5

Shouldn't this be in the lore section?

dancing gnome

Krytan Explorer

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House of Wandering Souls

R/Rt

05 Jan 2011 at 20:23 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

To the similarity between Zaithan (that's Zaithan right?) and Mallyx, dunno, Mallyx isn't a god, but he is god-like. He wants to overthrow Kormir and take Abbadon's place.. So, perhaps the dragons are also god-like and everything that's shiny and purple has some evil power?

It's the Shatterer... one of the generals of Kralkatorrik. Xaitan is an undead dragon... and well not purple.

And yes, this should be in the lore section (not to mention it's already been covered there).

Elmindreda Farshaw

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Shiverpeak Search and Rescue [Lost]

05 Jan 2011 at 20:37 - 7

Glint is not an elder dragon, and can be excluded from the statement that elder dragons came before the gods. Neither is Kuunavang, they are much younger.

edit: Also purple is the color of royalty and power, due to it being expensive to make in old times, and power corrupts. its easy to see how purple can become linked to evil. Not to mention its the color of night/twilight which has its own connections to "the dark side".

Uriel_Wolfblood

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2009

The House of Wolfblood

R/

05 Jan 2011 at 20:45 - 8

Ok so you're telling me that that big a$$ dragon from the demo isn't even the big man Xaitan himself? OMG I can't wait for this game lol.

To my knowledge Glint is the oldest thing on Tyria. Since the elder dragons are "locked" away in various stages this would make the statement true. But also like said before I think the wiki got the information from a human perspective which of course would not have all the proper information.

Also, I can't find where it says the elder dragons came before the Gods. Personally I think the whole "Gods came to Tyria" thing is litteral and they were actually there until they went back to thier own realm. That doesn't mean they are younger than the dragons, but that the actual physical time they spent on Tyria was shorter than that of the elder dragons. But then again the Gods are in such a hazy form of lore anyways there could be almost countless interpretations.

coryorth

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

W/Mo

05 Jan 2011 at 21:27 - 9

If any of you read into it at all. Then you'd know Glint is the champion of an elder dragon. So she DOES have a relation to an elder dragon.
And lore section. I looked for it. And could not find it. Haven't forum'd in a while.
And the purple essense, yes. But I highly doubt it has to do with royalty.
And I brought up Mallyx because he, like the margonites, share a slightly similar look to that of The Shatterer. Who is a champion of the elder dragon Kral. So with him being a minion of the elder dragon. How do we know the Margonites didnt pull their power from the elder dragon.

Basically this topic mostly is surrounding the mystery behind the elder dragons. How much of the world have they effected. Since they're all powerful and so forthe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uriel_Wolfblood

To my knowledge Glint is the oldest thing on Tyria. Since the elder dragons are "locked" away in various stages this would make the statement true. But also like said before I think the wiki got the information from a human perspective which of course would not have all the proper information.

Also, I can't find where it says the elder dragons came before the Gods. Personally I think the whole "Gods came to Tyria" thing is litteral and they were actually there until they went back to thier own realm. That doesn't mean they are younger than the dragons, but that the actual physical time they spent on Tyria was shorter than that of the elder dragons. But then again the Gods are in such a hazy form of lore anyways there could be almost countless interpretations.

Wiki. Look it up. I even quoted it right from the wiki.
And Glint isn't the oldest thing on Tyria. It's a mystery who really is. I'd have to look it up. Could be the Mursaat. The Seers. Who really knows.
Alot of you should refer to the following:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Timeline (Strangely the wikis have differing timelines)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_...t_of_the_World
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glint

MArcSinus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2010

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05 Jan 2011 at 22:38 - 10

OP I suggest reading this thread

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/...ny-t11680.html

Good discussions there, but the "answers" you're looking for are mere speculation at this moment.

Shadowphoenix

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2008

W/

05 Jan 2011 at 23:01 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uriel_Wolfblood

Ok so you're telling me that that big a$$ dragon from the demo isn't even the big man Xaitan himself? OMG I can't wait for this game lol.

No if you watch the trailer the narrator said that The Shatterer is an important dragon but compare to the elder dragons The Shatterer is a mouse.

chuckles79

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2009

FILA

P/

05 Jan 2011 at 23:36 - 12

There are two distinct possibilities.
A. Abbadon was himself a pawn of Zaitan, and his "general"
or B. The game designers think that glow is very neat and very "eldritch". Purple glowing conveys dark energy better than any other color glowing.

Lastly, the game designer may have decided to have the minions of different dragons glow different colors. Since the destroyers glow red, and Zaitan's minions glow purple, maybe "Bubbles?" minions are blue and Kralkatorrik glows yellow.

Spoiler Alert, please don't read if you don't like spoilers.

I support that last one because isn't Glint's final room have yellow Crystalline glow?

Uriel_Wolfblood

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2009

The House of Wolfblood

R/

06 Jan 2011 at 01:28 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by coryorth

And Glint isn't the oldest thing on Tyria. It's a mystery who really is. I'd have to look it up. Could be the Mursaat. The Seers. Who really knows. (Strangely the wikis have differing timelines)

Yeah the overall lore is quite vague, but that makes it interesting as well. Especially when it comes to the Great Giants. According to both timelines the oldest recorded event was the vanishing (extinction, exodus, who knows) of the true giants. Who knows, maybe they became the Gods or something.

Uriel_Wolfblood

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2009

The House of Wolfblood

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06 Jan 2011 at 01:33 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

There are two distinct possibilities.
A. Abbadon was himself a pawn of Zaitan, and his "general"
or B. The game designers think that glow is very neat and very "eldritch". Purple glowing conveys dark energy better than any other color glowing.

Lastly, the game designer may have decided to have the minions of different dragons glow different colors. Since the destroyers glow red, and Zaitan's minions glow purple, maybe "Bubbles?" minions are blue and Kralkatorrik glows yellow.

Spoiler Alert, please don't read if you don't like spoilers.

I support that last one because isn't Glint's final room have yellow Crystalline glow?

While the room does indeed glow like you point out that doesn't add up to me. We just established that the purple glow or the creatures in GW2 are minions of Kralkatorrik. He creates all the strange purple, aethmyst like creatures when he awakens and flies to the crystal desert (its called the dragonband it think?). So that shatterer as well as all the other purple people eaters were Kraks minions. Since good old Zaitan is an undead dragon I imagine his minions will havea certain green quality to them. I do agree with the glowing red of primordius, and blue or white will probably be Jormung since he apparently has ice/snow minions.

coryorth

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

W/Mo

06 Jan 2011 at 06:06 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

There are two distinct possibilities.
A. Abbadon was himself a pawn of Zaitan, and his "general"
or B. The game designers think that glow is very neat and very "eldritch". Purple glowing conveys dark energy better than any other color glowing.

Lastly, the game designer may have decided to have the minions of different dragons glow different colors. Since the destroyers glow red, and Zaitan's minions glow purple, maybe "Bubbles?" minions are blue and Kralkatorrik glows yellow.

Spoiler Alert, please don't read if you don't like spoilers.

I support that last one because isn't Glint's final room have yellow Crystalline glow?

Zhaitans minions are the undead, there is no color.
And Kralkatorrik's minions glow a dark purple.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

06 Jan 2011 at 06:28 - 16

Regarding the purple colours, we do actually have official word that that's coincidental:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWarsGuru Lore Q&A

Q: A little controversial discussion since Nightfall: Is Abbadon still alive in some form? And while on the topic of Abbadon, a lot of people have been comparing the Branded of Kralkatorrik to the Margonites of Abbadon. Is there a connection between them outside of the color purple?

A: Basically the gods have stepped back. They've let humanity go forward on their own. They are still part of the world in the way that there's still worship but they aren't interfering as much as they were back in those days. The fact that Abbadon's minions had that purplish glow and what we're seeing in the crystal is as far as I know. Coincidental because purple is of course, the color of evil. The fact that there is some similarity-- dragon's contain a lot of power. And the nature of that power comes to the surface. Not all dragon minions are purple in nature. So there's no definitive link between Abbadon and Kralkatorrik.

Regarding Glint being placed on the world by the gods - this was brought up in a 2009 interview, and the response could be summarised as "and where do you think that came from?" The official sources for Glint having been placed on Tyria by the gods are in the original Guild Wars manuscripts and in the dialogue with Turai Ossa's ghost in Amnoon Oasis.

What it seems to me has happened is that Glint formed an alliance with the gods when they arrived, thus becoming the first creature on Tyria to associate with the gods (although humans and the forgotten may go back further on other worlds) and becoming the caretaker when they absented themselves. What isn't clear is whether she deliberately fostered the misinterpretation that she was created by the gods, or whether she simply allowed it to continue. As MArcSinus has pointed out, though, this has been under discussion in the GW2Guru lore forum, so feel free to check that out for more details.

coryorth

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

W/Mo

06 Jan 2011 at 10:47 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Regarding the purple colours, we do actually have official word that that's coincidental:

Regarding Glint being placed on the world by the gods - this was brought up in a 2009 interview, and the response could be summarised as "and where do you think that came from?" The official sources for Glint having been placed on Tyria by the gods are in the original Guild Wars manuscripts and in the dialogue with Turai Ossa's ghost in Amnoon Oasis.

What it seems to me has happened is that Glint formed an alliance with the gods when they arrived, thus becoming the first creature on Tyria to associate with the gods (although humans and the forgotten may go back further on other worlds) and becoming the caretaker when they absented themselves. What isn't clear is whether she deliberately fostered the misinterpretation that she was created by the gods, or whether she simply allowed it to continue. As MArcSinus has pointed out, though, this has been under discussion in the GW2Guru lore forum, so feel free to check that out for more details.

This brings alot to light! Thank you very much ^^

damkel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

20 Jan 2011 at 17:55 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWarsGuru Lore Q&A

Q: A little controversial discussion since Nightfall: Is Abbadon still alive in some form? And while on the topic of Abbadon, a lot of people have been comparing the Branded of Kralkatorrik to the Margonites of Abbadon. Is there a connection between them outside of the color purple?

A: Basically the gods have stepped back. They've let humanity go forward on their own. They are still part of the world in the way that there's still worship but they aren't interfering as much as they were back in those days. The fact that Abbadon's minions had that purplish glow and what we're seeing in the crystal is as far as I know. Coincidental because purple is of course, the color of evil. The fact that there is some similarity-- dragon's contain a lot of power. And the nature of that power comes to the surface. Not all dragon minions are purple in nature. So there's no definitive link between Abbadon and Kralkatorrik.

I think there is a true connection between the margonite purple and the kralkatorrik purple. There is just too much of a similarity between them. And being such iconic creatures in the lore, it doesn't sit right being just a 'coincidence'. I'm thinking there will be something revealed further down the line between the two evils. There is of course nothing to support this. Just a feeling.

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

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21 Jan 2011 at 14:18 - 19

So you're going to say that an ArenaNet world designer lied to us when he said there was no link between Abaddon and Kralkatorrik?

It's not really a coincidence, as Jeff Grubb said: "purple is of course, the color of evil."

Basically: Abaddon and Kralkatorrik are evil. That's the one and only connection.

It's like saying there's a connection between all mesmers and Abaddon because they share the color purple. Or there's a link between Abaddon and the musical "Color Purple."

damkel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

21 Jan 2011 at 16:41 - 20

Perhaps I should have phrased that better. The artwork between the two is very similar. Fair enough if the designers/artists wanted to reuse the texture because they liked it and it is the 'colour of evil'. I just have a feeling there is a link between the two. And if there is such a link, then of course it would be a pretty major aspect of the lore that none of the Anet staff (especially Mr Grubb) would want released prematurely. Like I said before it's a feeling that I felt, so thought to share it.

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

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22 Jan 2011 at 11:21 - 21

Energy is energy. It won't look any different.

If the color was blue (the color of the Blasphemy), would you say it would be connected still because the texture is the same?

That isn't to say there is no link between the gods and the ED (see the facets). That wasn't disproven yet. It's just that the color is not a link between them, and there is no (direct) link between Abaddon and Kralkatorrik.

Spiritz

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

DMFC

24 Jan 2011 at 09:26 - 22

"She was the first creature placed on the continent of Tyria by the gods to oversee the new world. As time went on, she was given servants - The Forgotten, to aid her in this task"
That can also mean when the gods took over - kuna was the First creature They placed on tyria - other creatures who were not placed by the gods may have already existed.
Ie she was "introduced" to tyria like a new exibit in a zoo gets introduced .

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

24 Jan 2011 at 10:59 - 23

That line relates to Glint, not Kuunavang.

The only thing we really know about Kuunavang's history is that she laired in the Harvest Temple, empowered Archemorus and Saint Viktor, and was corrupted by Shiro. Presumably during the events of Factions rather than at the Jade Wind, since she has an Afflicted look.

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

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24 Jan 2011 at 23:39 - 24

Wait wait wait wati wait wait wait

Kuunavang empowered Archemorus and Saint Viktor?

Where is this ever stated?

BrettM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2008

Fuzzy Physics Institute

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25 Jan 2011 at 04:47 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redemptor Iszar

We have come to the whirlpool to receive power from the great dragon Kuunavang. This is where Saint Viktor, the Kurzick champion who helped defeat Shiro many years ago, received his power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder Oxis

We have come to the whirlpool to receive power from the great dragon Kuunavang. This is where Luxon champion Archemorus, who helped defeat Shiro, received his power from all those years ago.

@Drax: The in-game description of the Harvest Temple outpost says "Here the mighty dragon Kuunavang still lurks in the caverns beneath the temple, utterly corrupted by the proximity of Shiro's death wail." The description of the Unwaking Waters outpost (either side) refers to a legend of a dragon being trapped within the temple. This all makes it sound like Kuuna was just collateral damage 200 years ago.

Yet, she herself tells us that Shiro's touch and his presence corrupted her, making it sound like he was deliberately working to control her in the present day.

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

25 Jan 2011 at 08:18 - 26

Dangit! I knew I'd missed something...

I'd recalled that it was mentioned that she was lairing in the Harvest Temple, but I was looking for it in the quest text and didn't think to check the actual outpost descriptions...

It's curious that it mentioned Kuunavang being corrupted in the Harvest Temple outpost itself, since my the time you get to it she's Got Better. It's possible that that particular line actually refers to the corruption of the temple, or that Shiro added to the corruption on returning to the temple to create Afflicted Kuunavang.

Still, my point is that either way, we simply don't know anything about Kuunavang's history prior to the Jade Wind.