Charr in EotN and the rejection of all gods

syronj

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

I've played the Charr missions in EotN several times through now, but I finally felt like asking about something that Pyre Fierceshot says after overthrowing the shamans. Pyre leads his fellow Charr into proclaiming "There are no gods."

How is this possible to say on the world of Tyria, which demonstrably has many gods? Or is it that Pyre thinks the gods are only humanity's gods, and there are no gods for the Charr? Why shouldn't there be gods for the Charr also, even though the Destroyers and others held forward by the shamans weren't real gods? I hope Guild Wars 2 addresses this issue, because it doesn't make sense for there to be atheists in this fantasy world that has many gods.

Asia Skyly

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

California, USA

Mo/

Maybe it is not an atheistic remark, but an antagonistic one. One that is fueled by anger and disappointment above everything else.

syronj

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asia Skyly View Post
Maybe it is not an atheistic remark, but an antagonistic one. One that is fueled by anger and disappointment above everything else.
That makes sense. But I hope at some point a god or two will express an interest in the Charr. Just because the Charr were fooled by their shamans doesn't mean they have to be atheists forever, any more than humans in Kryta should reject religious belief just because everyone was lied to by the White Mantle.

Wildora Fox

Wildora Fox

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

Nice To Kill You [NTKU]

N/P

What Pyre meant is Charr has no Gods. They don't care about human gods.

Well, only the Flame Legion implemented the idea of Charr Gods, but the other Legions were against it. Flame Legion acted in the name of false gods to justify their actions, that's why the charr "civil" war started.

RedDog91

RedDog91

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2007

Farming for Nick gifts

R/

Different races have different gods and/or god-like figures.

Humans have Balthazar, Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa, Grenth, and Kormir.
The Norn have the Spirits of the Wild (bear, wolf, raven, etc.)
and so on...

The Charr in GW:Prophecies followed the Titans as their gods. The Titans prove to be false gods when they are defeated by the players (humans). In the minds of the Charr, surely something that can be defeated by weak creatures such as humans can't really be gods.
The Charr acknowledge the existence of the human gods, but see them as such... HUMAN Gods.

Pyre says "There are no gods" meaning that the Charr now have no gods.

Dewshine Wildclaw

Dewshine Wildclaw

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Planet Earth

Weapons Of Tyria [WoT]

R/

Just because one race see these powerful beings as gods does not mean others do, the charr does not deny the fact that Melandru, Balthazar, Grenth and all those are real, they just see them as powerful beings no more godly than the titans or destroyers were. Being failed by such powerful being before and seen them killed, they natural decided they are better off without.
So powerful they may be... but not worthy of prayer and faith.

Some of the same can be said for the other races.

The norn possibly see the human gods as spirits kinda same as their animal spirits, although the animal spirits must be stronger right

And the asura are actually pretty close to being atheists too, the eternal alchemy sounds like a thing and not a person, so not godly. Ofc. it is still believeing in something, but they sure wont call those powerful beings for godly.

So it makes perfect sense really.

Iuris

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

Pyre is not so much denying the existence of entities, but rather their worthiness of worship and the Charr need to worship any gods. Essentially, he's telling the Charr that they should take care of themselves.

The same way a human could, after finishing Nightfall and seeing just how little the gods were willing to help and just how Kormir became a god (seems gods inherit existing power), decide they might as well go to hell and that humanity is better off building city walls rather than temples.

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

Because why the hell should the Charr worship them?
I admire it.

The Charr found gods because it was through theirs, that Humans managed to drive them out of Ascalon (or so they thought). Really though, the Titans and the Destroyer "successors" were hardly worth worshipping (although the Titans did seem to give the power to breach the Wall).

Humans worship their gods because it was them that brought humans into this world (to fight the Charr). Humans had the backing of the gods and that appeared to grant them great power (magic and all that jazz). Previously the Charr had merely battled with the Forgotten in the quest for dominance.

pomagranite

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2010

Togo Stole My [LADY]

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewshine Wildclaw View Post
Just because one race see these powerful beings as gods does not mean others do, the charr does not deny the fact that Melandru, Balthazar, Grenth and all those are real, they just see them as powerful beings no more godly than the titans or destroyers were. Being failed by such powerful being before and seen them killed, they natural decided they are better off without.
So powerful they may be... but not worthy of prayer and faith.

Some of the same can be said for the other races.

The norn possibly see the human gods as spirits kinda same as their animal spirits, although the animal spirits must be stronger right

And the asura are actually pretty close to being atheists too, the eternal alchemy sounds like a thing and not a person, so not godly. Ofc. it is still believeing in something, but they sure wont call those powerful beings for godly.

So it makes perfect sense really.

^^absolutely and exactly correct

Ghull Ka

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

Just like saying "You're dead to me" doesn't actually kill someone... it just lets them know that you want nothing to do with them.

Charr saying "There are no gods" = "Let's all stop praying and use science instead". Or thereabouts.

sykoone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mystical Chaos

E/

Pyre actually says "There are no gods for the Charr!" If you actually take the whole quote, the question pretty much answers itself. The charr followed the titans, and they failed. They tried to follow the destroyers, and they failed. Following gods hasn't led them to victory, so they reject them.