Elementalist or ranger for PVE role?

1st: I know that Elementalist is completly different from Ranger play style.
Since i was gone from Guild Wars world for about 2-3 years, im not much into in how builds, roles, and whatever are.
So i wanted ur help since u guys kept playing.

i CANT decide between ranger or elementalist.
So i wanted ur opinion regarding this:
- both of them can farm everything? or there are restrictions
- can ranger and elementalist still solo farm bosses?
- Will ranger or elementlist be a good choice to conquer the 3 campaigns in NM and HM

basicly because i will try to as many titles as i can with it, (it will be my main)

Non specific profession related things go in Campfire, not in any specific profession forum (I've moved/cleaned things up as necessary).

Anyway

- both of them can farm everything? or there are restrictions

Neither are remarkably good farmers. They both have roles in high end PvE though (speed clears produce lots of cash).

- can ranger and elementalist still solo farm bosses?

Yes, but it's not particularly profitable anymore.

- Will ranger or elementlist be a good choice to conquer the 3 campaigns in NM and HM

Both professions are considered to be in need of a buff. Elementalists suffer because as you get further into a campaign, the armor levels of foes increase, which means you do less damage. This means that when you start getting into the high end stuff, your damage dealing capabilities will be limited (i.e, don't expect to be throwing big nukes around and dealing tons of damage). Ether Renewal allows you to spam monk spells though, and that's massively powerful. If healing/protting isn't your thing you might want to look elsewhere. Rangers are weak because bow damage is weaker than melee, pets are sub-par, traps are pretty much useless, nature rituals are pretty much useless, and condition spam is pretty much useless. That said, they can use scythes and daggers quite well (though I'd say if you wanted to make a Ranger you'd want to be doing Ranger things like bows and pets).

PS: If you want to play one of the above professions and use the things that I've said are useless, go ahead. ArenaNet balances consist solely of buffing everything that doesn't get used to massively overpowered levels. What I'm saying is that even if you're playing a crap bow+pet build, you won't be literally useless and your team will be carrying enough overpowered things to make up for your lack of power anyway. Play to have fun, not whatever the latest flavour of the month profession is.

Quote: Originally Posted by ruibullseye

1st: I know that Elementalist is completly different from Ranger play style.
Since i was gone from Guild Wars world for about 2-3 years, im not much into in how builds, roles, and whatever are.
So i wanted ur help since u guys kept playing.

i CANT decide between ranger or elementalist.
So i wanted ur opinion regarding this:
- both of them can farm everything? or there are restrictions
- can ranger and elementalist still solo farm bosses?
- Will ranger or elementlist be a good choice to conquer the 3 campaigns in NM and HM

basicly because i will try to as many titles as i can with it, (it will be my main) Now I have to say first that I am bias as I've played a Ranger for nearly 5 years. That being said, what I might suggest is a Ranger with an Elementalist secondary profession. For example, I have a R/El with focus in Air magic. As I have a shocking recurve bow (lightening dmg) the Air magic lends to that lightening dmg.

Now, I'd be remiss if I wasn't completely straight here, the mod is correct in saying that Rangers do often need buffs but I can say that I have finished the prophecies storyline NM and have started the HM track. Also, I've finished Eye of the North, I have two Elite Armor sets, and am nearly finished with 3 or 4 titles so much of what you are trying to accomplished can be done. I hope this helps you make a decision.

As a parting thought, as many others on this forum will tell you, let me suggest pvxwiki.com for some good builds as well as some solid Hero builds if you're like me and like playing "solo" Good luck and welcome back.

Pretty much everything Marty said, I agree with. I will note however that I've played a ranger for 4 yrs as my main. I quite like it and recently discovered the synergy between ranger trappers and SoS Rits. Laying traps under spirits before sttarting them attacking then backing off is quite effective. Just recently been running around The Underworld in such 2-player teams for fun and profit.

You're better off with a Ranger if you are using primary profession skills.

Rangers can at least use Asuran Scan. They can use scythes and daggers too without much of a downside.

This is coming from someone who has played Ele since beta...don't bother with them in hard mode when all other professions got massive buffs.

Even if you run the crappiest ranger bow skills you can at least slot a 0 point d-shot and be useful, plus trigger barbs and mark of pain.

The skill pool for eles in HM:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...93&postcount=1
Quote: Aura of restoration (1 energy return on every spell, heal)
Elemental Lord (1 energy return , heal, +1 to ele attributes)
Energy Blast (20 cooldown... but armor ignoring)
Ether Renewal (ER eles)
Ether Prism (wannabee ER eles)

Deep Freeze (66% slower in the area ... 15 cooldown AND 25 energy)
Freezing Gust
Frigid armor
Glowing Ice
Ice Spikes
Icy Shackles
Maelstrom (hard to use without deep freeze, expensive)
Mist Form (gimmick, Glyph of Swiftness and an Of Enchanting upgrade)
Slippery ground
Steam (relies on burning)
Blurred Vision
Ward Against Harm
Water Trident (spammy KD)
Winter's Embrace (use Freezing Gust)

Earthquake/Dragon's Stomp
Crystal Wave (20 cooldown...)
Churning Earth (guaranteed KD, nearby ... 30 cooldown AND 3 cast)
Magnetic Surge (10 cooldown, 2 cast)
Obsidian Flame (exhaustion)
Eruption - causes fleeing
Grasping earth (sort of, belongs on assassin/dervish)
Obsidian Flesh (overplayed)
Sliver armor
Stone Sheath
Stoneflesh aura
Stone striker
Unsteady Ground
Ward Against Melee
Ward of Stability
Ward of Weakness
Armor of Earth

Mind Blast
Meteor
Meteor Shower
Glyph of Immolation (used with armor ignoring spells)

Gale
Blinding Surge (tried this...see below)
Blinding Flash (B-surge is more effective...)
Gust (Gale isn't elite)
Whirlwind/Tenai's Wind (better on melee, such as Dervish)
Thunderclap? (Technobabble is better)

Glyph of Energy (only useful for 15-25 energy spells)
Glyph of Renewal (can be used on secondary just as well)
Glyph of Lesser Energy (only useful if using 15-25 energy spells, otherwise just as good on secondary)
Glyph of Restoration

Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade Non specific profession related things go in Campfire, not in any specific profession forum (I've moved/cleaned things up as necessary).

Anyway

- both of them can farm everything? or there are restrictions

Neither are remarkably good farmers. They both have roles in high end PvE though (speed clears produce lots of cash). Didnt get this part, that means they are good farmers? or one is better than the other?


Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

- Will ranger or elementlist be a good choice to conquer the 3 campaigns in NM and HM

Both professions are considered to be in need of a buff. Elementalists suffer because as you get further into a campaign, the armor levels of foes increase, which means you do less damage. This means that when you start getting into the high end stuff, your damage dealing capabilities will be limited (i.e, don't expect to be throwing big nukes around and dealing tons of damage). Ether Renewal allows you to spam monk spells though, and that's massively powerful. If healing/protting isn't your thing you might want to look elsewhere. Rangers are weak because bow damage is weaker than melee, pets are sub-par, traps are pretty much useless, nature rituals are pretty much useless, and condition spam is pretty much useless. That said, they can use scythes and daggers quite well (though I'd say if you wanted to make a Ranger you'd want to be doing Ranger things like bows and pets).

PS: If you want to play one of the above professions and use the things that I've said are useless, go ahead. ArenaNet balances consist solely of buffing everything that doesn't get used to massively overpowered levels. What I'm saying is that even if you're playing a crap bow+pet build, you won't be literally useless and your team will be carrying enough overpowered things to make up for your lack of power anyway. Play to have fun, not whatever the latest flavour of the month profession is. Can u explain this part better? got confused :s

Quote: Originally Posted by ruibullseye

Can u explain this part better? got confused :s He means that they aren't part of the meta and that most people feel both classes have been needing a buff.

Rangers have only a handful of skills that they can use that are decent in hard mode:
* d-shot, savage shot , sloth hunter's shot, utility: Lightning reflexes, edge of extinction, frozen soil, winter (situational)
* Barrage (with balling), incendiary arrows (not so much since destroyers don't burn), Burning arrow (okay but not that great)
* marginal due to AI:Enraged lunge/Never Rampage alone pet builds with pet AI that sucks
* marginal: keen arrow (if running GTFE paragon, but not a solid skill), Marauder's Shot (situational, not as good as sloth hunter), Point Blank Shot/Zojun's shot, Prepared Shot

Unlike for the elementalist, preparations like Glass Arrows/Read the Wind/Expert Focus/etc., Order of Pain (+15), Barbs (+15), Ebon Vanguard Battle Standard of Honor (+15), Great Dwarf Weapon (+20) all add to auto attacks. So does "I am the strongest!". Asuran scan will multiply the added damage too.

The ranger needs a buff only because its attacks do +20ish at best unless you run Slothhunter's shot and stuff like pointblank shot, while melee can hit for +38-40s (Eviscerate, Executioner's Strike, Body Blow, etc), gain +20ish armor ignoring from Strength of Honor, and apply deep wounds. Of course, bows can reach melee-like levels when preparations such as Glass Arrows are applied. Spears also have faster attack speed (with only 1 point less damage) and adrenaline attacks, although their +damage is also in the +20s for the most part with the exception of Spear of Fury (+38-40 is possible), Mighty Throw (3 cast), Unblockable throw (3 cast), Wearying Spear (pretty bad most of the time unless you build around it). Spear of Lightning hits harder than it looks due to 20% armor penetration.

Barrage is also a good proc for splinter weapon, although Rt/R does it better.

Quote: Originally Posted by ruibullseye Didnt get this part, that means they are good farmers? or one is better than the other? Neither are optimal farming classes, but both can farm and both can take part in end-game stuff, which is easiest to partake in when you look for a group for a speed clear, which is a group using premade builds with premade tactics to clear an area as quickly as possible for the rewards.

Quote:

Can u explain this part better? got confused :s Simply put: rangers and eles aren't good at PvE. They're soon to be the two weakest PvE classes since the dervish buff is on the way. As for which one has it worse, that's probably eles. Less simply put: In hard mode, foes have higher health, damage, and armor. The most efficient and the safest ways to deal with HM mobs is to kill them as quickly as possible. Rangers specialize in spreading conditions, interrupting, and using underpowered crap, such as pets, traps, and nature rituals. Everything rangers specialize in is less efficient than straight damage, so using them takes up time and acts as a potential hazard for your group. Eles specialize in damage, so they seem good at first. But, pretty much all their spells are armor-respecting, so the massive armor buffs to HM mobs results in eles' effectiveness getting shafted. So, rangers and eles are not good for HM relative to most other options. However, this is relative, and they are still capable of doing things. To compensate for their inadequacies, rangers and eles steal shit from other classes. Rangers steal daggers, scythes, and spirits; eles steal Protection Prayers. Melee rangers and spirit rangers are significantly worse than their legitimate counterparts, though, so their versatility doesn't really help them. ER eles are actually quite powerful, but they're boring as hell (imo) and that's all eles can really do well, so it still sucks. Also, these builds have nothing to do with rangers' and eles' actual playstyles, and I wouldn't make a class just to play one nothing that's like it. If you don't want to play gimmicks and what not, rangers can still turret stuff and barrage stuff, which is okayish, and eles can try to nuke, use crappy wards, or spam blind. Both rangers and eles are great for normal mode, however. In fact, they're probably the best classes for normal mode. Since foes in normal mode have less health, armor, and damage than those in hard mode, ele spells do what they're supposed to and the sub-par damage of rangers doesn't matter because the foes are already dead by the time a melee could get there. But, unless you plan on staying in NM, rangers and eles will not serve you AS well as other classes.

Keep in mind that in the end eles/rangers are both more than strong enough to beat any HM area H/H without too many difficulties. They do it much less efficiently, but they can still do it. The first character I beat EotN with was a ranger who took along 2 SF eles against the destroyer mobs (which anyone knowing anything about destroyers will tell you is hilariously useless). So don't worry about being unable to finish PvE content.

Farming is a completely different matter, though. Neither class is good at that inherently, both only able to play well by abusing their secondary skills to play other classes.

Eles are now a bad support class in hard mode pve, and it doesn't look like anet is going to be fixing this anytime soon. However they are still a blast to play in nm so if thats all your looking to do I would say go for it. Rangers have a bit more to offer in HM but are still lackluster when compared to other classes. If your looking for a ranged damage dealer I would suggest rit, mes or nec.

eles rule. ive got 30 titles on my ele, dont let ne1 tell u diff!!@

If you're aim are the titles don't bother soo much with the profession choice...pick up wathever you want(but keep in mind what your character is good/bad at...) and play the game. You can earn GWAMM on every class....maybe some are easier than others but is still possible for everyone.

P.S: Marty and above posters said everything, and they're right.

Rangers are bad.


They have two, three at a push, bars to run in PvE. Damage is weak, slow (unless super buffed with spirits, rapid fire and EoC with quick shot/sundering attacks)
They can use Barrage, which is ok if you have someone to throw Great Dwarf Weapon on you. If not, it's bad. The damage is so low per foe, you might aswell have taken Life Transfer.

Anyway there are other bars but they're all equally meh.

Elementalist, on contrast, can actually add something to the team. It's a more diverse profession, as you can keep people alive, kill things or offer midline support.
AP bars are good, ER prot, etc.


You wanted to know about farming, but if you're just starting you don't need to know.

both of them suck at general pve imo. Like was said above, eles has subpar damage when it comes to HM, they're most useful when coupled with utility spells (B-surge, blurred vision, churring earth, ward against melee, etc).

Rangers are nearly useless. they have almost no elite skill that is worth using in PvE. You're going to be a splinter/barrage ranger nearly your entire life

Quote: Originally Posted by Boogz

Rangers are nearly useless. they have almost no elite skill that is worth using in PvE. You're going to be a splinter/barrage ranger nearly your entire life This really isn't much different from every other physical class that does little damage unless buffed by other players (ie everything not using a scythe). I mean, warriors have Hundred Blades and... maybe Triple Chop? Barrage is still among the best ways to unload splinter weapon as fast as possible since its a ranged attack that relies on targeting rather than positioning.

Eles do absolutely suck in HM, though. Yippie 30 damage spells.

I think one of the problems with Rangers is there are no really strong builds with just one or two specs (aside from Splinter/Barrage...which as mentioned can be run as effectively if not better by Rit/R). For instance, in HM you could throw down Dust Trap, Snare, and Tripwire then pull enemies into your traps, causing blind, cripple, and knockdown, then splinter/barrage them because now they can't scatter. But in order to make it work best, you have to spread attributes across Expertise, Wilderness Survival, Marksmanship, and Channeling.

So trapping becomes more effective with /Me secondary and using Echo chaining to get multiple copies of traps up. I like trapping but it's a slow play style and lots of people don't care for it. It's not the most effective, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, the most effective build I've run in HM is a R/Rit SoS spammer. Which, as I understand it, is even better run as a Rit primary.

So, basically, I'm a sad Ranger.

Both classes can finish NM and HM of all non-elite areas with heroes and henchmen.

The problem is that both classes are comparatively worse at doing damage compared to every other class, so other classes are more efficient (read faster).

That being said rangers can still use a bow (barrage or some sort of single target spike build with point blank shot/zojun shot or penetrating/sundering shot), scythe or daggers and do decent damage (just comparatively lower compared to the other physical classes).

Elementalists are also comparatively less efficient than the other casters (baring the monk), but they come with one great benefit, the fact that an ER ele is generally the best healer/protter in game. If you're in HM and you want to do damage, generally your best choice is to go AP and spam PvE skills.

Nevertheless both classes are capable of doing almost all of the game with heroes and henchmen.

@Kunder Whirlwind attack, fast dagger chains (JS, FF, DB) or a scythe can all quickly unload a splinter weapon. Also a warrior has warrior's endurance + energy attacks.

hm i got it now =). thnx alot.

btw can u guys now tell me about Mesmer or Dervish ?
the same questions, how they scale in nM and hM and that stuff =). thnx

Really thnx alot for ur time wasted , appreciate

Dervish aren't that great afaik now, but with the upcoming update.....who knows?

On the other hand, Mesmer are amazing in PvE now. Armor ignoring damage(and Hm is a walk in the park), interruptions(if you get good at it), various kind of hexes for both meele and caster shutdown and a nice primary attribute....forgot something?

Quote: Originally Posted by Roen I think one of the problems with Rangers is there are no really strong builds with just one or two specs (aside from Splinter/Barrage...which as mentioned can be run as effectively if not better by Rit/R). For instance, in HM you could throw down Dust Trap, Snare, and Tripwire then pull enemies into your traps, causing blind, cripple, and knockdown, then splinter/barrage them because now they can't scatter. But in order to make it work best, you have to spread attributes across Expertise, Wilderness Survival, Marksmanship, and Channeling.

So trapping becomes more effective with /Me secondary and using Echo chaining to get multiple copies of traps up. I like trapping but it's a slow play style and lots of people don't care for it. It's not the most effective, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, the most effective build I've run in HM is a R/Rit SoS spammer. Which, as I understand it, is even better run as a Rit primary.

So, basically, I'm a sad Ranger. Trapping is best with quickening Zephyr and a full trapper team. That's how oldschool UW trap teams worked.

As far as attribute spread you don't need Wilderness survival if you run barrage. Troll unguent isn't impressive, apply poison is sad in PvE, storm chaser/natural stride is of limited use. You could splash points in it for Frozen soil and Winter, but I don't see how that would be that important for zones outside of Slaver's exile. Incendiary arrows only needs 4 wilderness unless you are insane and run 12 for 1 more second of burning while gimping your energy or bow damage.

Unlike eles with DoT AOEs, splinter doesn't cause mass scatter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX Dervish aren't that great afaik now, but with the upcoming update.....who knows? On the other hand, Mesmer are amazing in PvE now. Armor ignoring damage(and Hm is a walk in the park), interruptions(if you get good at it), various kind of hexes for both meele and caster shutdown and a nice primary attribute....forgot something? Fast cast also reduces mesmer skill recharge in PvE and makes reses quicker for those "o crap" moments like 400-500 damage boss spirit rifts. P.S. eles are decent when you are killing things below level 20 since you get a damage multiplier, although other classes get the damage bonus on normal attacks (i.e. base damage from Barrage or Whirlwind attack). It's why I'm using my ele to steamroll things in Istan while opening chests for the Lucky title.