It is Canthan New Year again. Drinks all around!
My question is not about best tactics blah or other stuff you can find on wiki pages.
I'm actually wondering if Anet would mind if someone binded a G15 macrokey to play Lucky Hochei's RPS game.
I know half the community would call it cheating or even hacking and Anet isn't exactly happy with questions like this I'm sure.
But would they really mind? After all, Drunkard title has been and still is a title people bind a macro for and appearantly Anet doesn't mind.
It would be nice for an official to reply on this thread. I'm sure quite a few folks like this question answered as well. Discussing these things without an official is like untying a Gordian Knot.
Lucky Hochei and G15 Keybinding. Allowed or Forbidden?
Devonas big Sister
BladeDVD
It's playing the game for you. If they detect it you will get banned.
Schnellburg
Explain to me how they can detect a macro, let alone prove it is not you playing the game? He isn't injecting anything, and I'm sure as long as it isn't running 12 hours a day, the game won't flag it as a bot.
Genesis123
u ll get banned if u get caught, simple as that...
BladeDVD
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Originally Posted by Schnellburg
Explain to me how they can detect a macro, let alone prove it is not you playing the game? He isn't injecting anything, and I'm sure as long as it isn't running 12 hours a day, the game won't flag it as a bot.
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If you aren't going to have something like this running several hours in a row, what's the point?
Devonas big Sister
If this will ban you why not ban the 1000+ alcohol consumers who use the same G-key macros to do it. That's one of the reasons why I ask the question.
Is it a yes/no or something in between?
It has been said about alcohol that they wouldnt mind by an official (i believe this was Gaile back in the day)
EDIT: a definite no to this has never been given as far as I know.
This isn't the same as botting which will, ofcourse, get you banned.
Is it a yes/no or something in between?
It has been said about alcohol that they wouldnt mind by an official (i believe this was Gaile back in the day)
EDIT: a definite no to this has never been given as far as I know.
This isn't the same as botting which will, ofcourse, get you banned.
JumbocactuarX27
I bought a G15 a while ago and after reading some threads I decided that without an official word I wasn't going to risk a ban. I even switch to a mapping with no macros set in case I bump a button while playing. My understanding is that you can map emotes, but anything else is a grey area. And even that was implied from Gaile our other anet forum posts.
I would love an official on what is and isn't allowed. But like ui modding in GW2, I don't think we'll get it.
I would love an official on what is and isn't allowed. But like ui modding in GW2, I don't think we'll get it.
FengShuiDove
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Originally Posted by JumbocactuarX27
I bought a G15 a while ago and after reading some threads I decided that without an official word I wasn't going to risk a ban. I even switch to a mapping with no macros set in case I bump a button while playing. My understanding is that you can map emotes, but anything else is a grey area. And even that was implied from Gaile our other anet forum posts.
I would love an official on what is and isn't allowed. But like ui modding in GW2, I don't think we'll get it. |
It's when you walk away and make it do things while you're gone that it's banned.
To the OP: If you try it, I don't want to find a thread later on about how you got banned. Will it happen? Maybe not. If that's good enough for you, then you didn't have to ask here in the first place
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Devonas big Sister
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Originally Posted by JumbocactuarX27
I bought a G15 a while ago and after reading some threads I decided that without an official word I wasn't going to risk a ban. I even switch to a mapping with no macros set in case I bump a button while playing. My understanding is that you can map emotes, but anything else is a grey area. And even that was implied from Gaile our other anet forum posts.
I would love an official on what is and isn't allowed. But like ui modding in GW2, I don't think we'll get it. |
I do however also understand 3 key reasons why a definite answer has not been given. We have common sense and the EULA. But the options to do things like this are infinite yet most will never be considered. So we simply have to ask about each specific option whenever the option occurs if it is allowed or not.
EDIT: @Fengsui: just like jumbo says, without an official word I won't risk it.
Horace Slughorn
how would we know...
do it if you want, but don't make a thread here so that you can blame someone else if you get caught
do it if you want, but don't make a thread here so that you can blame someone else if you get caught
JumbocactuarX27
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Originally Posted by FengShuiDove
If it plays the game for you, it's not allowed. Easy as that. I have a mouse macro that is bound to my heroes' first two skills so I can force a spike. This is entirely legal, as I'm still interfacing with the game.
It's when you walk away and make it do things while you're gone that it's banned. To the OP: If you try it, I don't want to find a thread later on about how you got banned. Will it happen? Maybe not. If that's good enough for you, then you didn't have to ask here in the first place . |
If not any of that, is it fine to make a macro for "/paper" and then use it solely to cut down typing? There has been no response from anet saying "macros that automate x, y, z are bad and macros for emotes, text responses, spiking heroes, etc are okay." That's the problem here.
Shayne Hawke
I would say that you don't do it.
No matter what anyone here says (unless Regina suddenly swoops in), if ANet bans you for this, you have no right to complain.
No matter what anyone here says (unless Regina suddenly swoops in), if ANet bans you for this, you have no right to complain.
Devonas big Sister
Horace why would I make a thread to blame others for mistakes they didn't make? I'm not enticing anyone, I'm not doing anything myself. I simply ask a question here.
Please contribute to the thread.
Read Jumbo's last post, he hammers the nail spot on what the problem is i'm trying to solve for not just myself but for a multitude of players. It just so happens I am the one starting a thread about it. (given this specific subject I found none)
Please contribute to the thread.
Read Jumbo's last post, he hammers the nail spot on what the problem is i'm trying to solve for not just myself but for a multitude of players. It just so happens I am the one starting a thread about it. (given this specific subject I found none)
JumbocactuarX27
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I would say that you don't do it.
No matter what anyone here says (unless Regina suddenly swoops in), if ANet bans you for this, you have no right to complain. |
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by JumbocactuarX27
Iirc, the eula refers to things that give you an advantage. A macro that calls heroes to spoke could be argued to give an advantage and therefore bannable.
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MisterB
Macros are a gray area. Botting or automation is not; they will ban you if they detect it. If you write a macro that loops, that's automation. So a /paper, /rock, or /scissors macro is fine, but if you make a "macro" that talks to Hochei at set intervals, waits for a set delay, and then enters RPS to play and repeats without any further input, that's botting.
People keep on taking Gaile's comment about drunkard bots out of context and interpreting it to mean what they want to believe rather than what she actually said. She never said drunkard bots were allowed.
People keep on taking Gaile's comment about drunkard bots out of context and interpreting it to mean what they want to believe rather than what she actually said. She never said drunkard bots were allowed.
JumbocactuarX27
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
There are ways of doing this using solely in-game options and keybindings, so there's really no advantage to be had here.
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With your logic I could say that since any number of things are possible with in game controls, then there is no problem with a macro. Including the OP's question.
JumbocactuarX27
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Originally Posted by MisterB
Macros are a gray area. Botting or automation is not; they will ban you if they detect it. If you write a macro that loops, that's automation. So a /paper, /rock, or /scissors macro is fine, but if you make a "macro" that talks to Hochei at set intervals, waits for a set delay, and then enters RPS to play and repeats without any further input, that's botting.
People keep on taking Gaile's comment about drunkard bots out of context and interpreting it to mean what they want to believe rather than what she actually said. |
Chrisworld
I don't think you should do it. They can't detect the attached keyboard or drivers that automate keystrokes, and those keystrokes don't modify your game at all. But what they do detect is the fact that your input is persice and perfectly excetuted every time, which their poorly designed algorithm will still catch, flag and auto ban your account. You will try to appeal it, but they'll give you the 3rd party, RMT, or botter excuse, and afterall this is THE online game company that does express that they can even close legit accounts for no reason (and have done in the past). So common sense says don't risk it.
MisterB
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Originally Posted by JumbocactuarX27
Can you point to a place where Gaile our another anet employee said those short of chat shortcuts were okay? I say this with no sarcasm intended. It would clear up a lot of worry for me.
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Edit:
Here's a link to someone's post quoting Support's generic reply. Search will turn up more examples. They will sometimes change a few words here and there or perhaps inject a new paragraph, but this is the generic template for their replies.
This thread contains more information, including a response from Stephane Lo Presti, and a link to Gaile's talk page where she talks about macros.
killerbot3009
pretty sure they are okay with Macros, after all they give G15's and G11's as prizes.
i cant see it being too much of a problem tbh but if you do get caught with it flagged up as a bot then u will get a temp ban probs lasting the rest of the event, which is why i'm just afking 9 rings
i cant see it being too much of a problem tbh but if you do get caught with it flagged up as a bot then u will get a temp ban probs lasting the rest of the event, which is why i'm just afking 9 rings
Haggis of Doom
How isn't this a bot? 
Bristlebane
It's simple...
you can use the macro binding to save you some keystrokes, but you can't be afk doing it. It's the "automated while afk" that anet will strike down on if they see signs for it. Oh yeah, and I have a G15 as well so I've been trying to follow up on all topics related to macro keys and what not.
you can use the macro binding to save you some keystrokes, but you can't be afk doing it. It's the "automated while afk" that anet will strike down on if they see signs for it. Oh yeah, and I have a G15 as well so I've been trying to follow up on all topics related to macro keys and what not.
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by JumbocactuarX27
The advantage is how quickly you can do it. The macro executes instantly with the press of one button leaving you free to tank, skill spam, whatever rather than take however long to do it yourself.
With your logic I could say that since any number of things are possible with in game controls, then there is no problem with a macro. Including the OP's question. |
OP's question is completely different, since there is no in-game command that can run RPS for hours on end.
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| and afterall this is THE online game company that does express that they can even close legit accounts for no reason (and have done in the past). |
BladeDVD
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Originally Posted by Devonas big Sister
I'm actually wondering if Anet would mind if someone binded a G15 macrokey to play Lucky Hochei's RPS game.
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Originally Posted by MisterB
link to Gaile's talk page where she talks about macros.
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Which is what I said in my first post. It's common sense, you don't need an official response to tell you you can't run a macro that plays the game for you.
Also any macros that just automatically drink alcohol for you with out any work beyond starting the macro are also not allowed as per the above. I mean if that kind of thing were allowed don't you think it would be on the wiki? Heck, who they hell would do it any other way than via a macro (you don't need a G15 like keyboard to run macros) if that were allowed?
Bristlebane
In this particular game it doesn't give you any unfair advantage, your chance for lunar fortunes and blue drinks are same as everyone else. So the advantage lies in saving your wrist from damage which is no different from buying a new mouse, natural keyboard, a good mousepad, a good chair, ie. more ergonomic than gaining an edge in game.
NOW if you used it in different areas where you would be able to kill someone faster etc, it would be different. Luckily G15 keyboards can't be programmed to do insta-interrupt, farm raptors or similar without your interaction.
NOW if you used it in different areas where you would be able to kill someone faster etc, it would be different. Luckily G15 keyboards can't be programmed to do insta-interrupt, farm raptors or similar without your interaction.
AMDSpeed
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Originally Posted by Bristlebane
In this particular game it doesn't give you any unfair advantage, your chance for lunar fortunes and blue drinks are same as everyone else. So the advantage lies in saving your wrist from damage which is no different from buying a new mouse, natural keyboard, a good mousepad, a good chair, ie. more ergonomic than gaining an edge in game.
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This would definitely give me an unfair advantage over another player that couldn't or wouldn't do the same, especially if this macro allows me to receive items, titles or whatever. If you're worried about your wrist hurting then go do something else for a while.
I don't understand how this is even a discussion.
Devonas big Sister
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Originally Posted by Bristlebane
In this particular game it doesn't give you any unfair advantage, your chance for lunar fortunes and blue drinks are same as everyone else. So the advantage lies in saving your wrist from damage which is no different from buying a new mouse, natural keyboard, a good mousepad, a good chair, ie. more ergonomic than gaining an edge in game.
NOW if you used it in different areas where you would be able to kill someone faster etc, it would be different. Luckily G15 keyboards can't be programmed to do insta-interrupt, farm raptors or similar without your interaction. |
Other reasons I have is making it less a fuss for me to play RPS AND trade items at the same time. Keeping my focus on the players I could trade with instead of having to search for the chatentry i the logs when the district is crowded with chatters.
To me this reason weights heavy since keeping my focus is already a personal issue which I can't change anything about. It is a small thing but makes me enjoy any game a lot more.
Another reason is what has already been said: It's a grey area where no player can give a definite answer to rather than that it would be wise not to risk it. Not an real answer to the question is it?
Edit: while reviewing past topics solely related to the use of the G15 macro keys I came across different claims.
topic link:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...0244888p2.html
Quote from the topic:
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Jan 16, 2008, 08:14 PM #28 flyinhigh Frost Gate Guardian Hi **** Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Technical Support. Our all the games can use the G15 as a normal keyboard, but do not support the use of the extra features such as the macro keys or the display. Exception to this Auto Assault supports the full use of the Logitech® G15 keyboard, including the LCD and the extra buttons. Also, we would like to inform you that Logitech® G15 keyboard hotkeys isn't going to get your account banned. Please let us know if you require any further assistance. Regards, The Guild Wars Support Team |
Yet another reason for a definite and FINAL answer to yes we allow this or no this will get you banned.
Lithril Ashwalker
the Peregrine gaming glove is nothing BUT keybinding. cept its in the glove sensors, so no i believe its allwoe3d, ive already gotten a confirmed go by anet that i can use it
Iuris
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Originally Posted by Devonas big Sister
Yet another reason for a definite and FINAL answer to yes we allow this or no this will get you banned.
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False positives are separate issues.
Quaker
As above ^^ it's not so much a matter of the device, it's what you do with it. If, for example, you were to program a robot (or a device) to physically press the keys on a standard keyboard and go farming by itself, you would still be breaking the EULA even though you (or the robot) are using a regular keyboard.
BladeDVD
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Originally Posted by Devonas big Sister
The main reasons for me are indeed ergonomic. It won't save you hours and hours of time, Hochei has a forced time interval for the RPS game plus you have a fixed 33% chance of winning. You can't change that. No possible advantages to be had there...
Other reasons I have is making it less a fuss for me to play RPS AND trade items at the same time. Keeping my focus on the players I could trade with instead of having to search for the chatentry i the logs when the district is crowded with chatters. To me this reason weights heavy since keeping my focus is already a personal issue which I can't change anything about. It is a small thing but makes me enjoy any game a lot more. |
Quote:
| Another reason is what has already been said: It's a grey area where no player can give a definite answer to rather than that it would be wise not to risk it. Not an real answer to the question is it? |
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Edit: while reviewing past topics solely related to the use of the G15 macro keys I came across different claims. topic link: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...0244888p2.html Quote from the topic: Now if you read on that topic you'll notice that another support mail contradicts just the thing i bolded in the quote. Yet another reason for a definite and FINAL answer to yes we allow this or no this will get you banned. |
The statement you quoted is also not mutually exclusive with Gaile's statement. Simply having and using a G15 keyboard will not void the EULA.
The statement you bolded talked about hotkeys, not macros that play the game for you.
To sum up, binding /rock /paper /scissors to 3 different keys is ok. Creating a macro that clicks on the NPC, selects the let's play option, enters /rock /paper or /scissors waits and then repeats until you stop is a macro that plays the game for you and is not ok. The only gray area is whether or not you would be caught doing this, not whether it is ok under the EULA.
Devonas big Sister
Sometimes I wonder if it's so hard for me to explain things, or so hard for others to understand what I am saying...
Anyways I got my answer elsewhere without all the fuss around it.
And I do not feel obligated to share my info. For it will probably keep this endless discussion going for weeks after the event without any relevant additions.....
Some say no, some say yes, some claim to know the facts, others know them for sure, as do I now...
Mods, feel free to lock this.
Anyways I got my answer elsewhere without all the fuss around it.
And I do not feel obligated to share my info. For it will probably keep this endless discussion going for weeks after the event without any relevant additions.....
Some say no, some say yes, some claim to know the facts, others know them for sure, as do I now...
Mods, feel free to lock this.
Dzjudz
It plays the game for you while you are away from the keyboard (or at least it has this ability): bot, not allowed. Easy.
drkn
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Originally Posted by Dzjudz
It plays the game for you while you are away from the keyboard (or at least it has this ability): bot, not allowed. Easy.
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I've never seen any problem about using macros to pop hundreds of snowmen summoners at once or help spamming the trade chat, as long as it's not excessive. I doubt you'd get into any trouble by macroing RPS games while still shouting and chatting with potential customers.
Bristlebane
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Originally Posted by AMDSpeed
If I had a macro to press space, talk to the NPC, emote /Rock, /Paper or /Scissors, I may be tempted to just let it run while I go take a bio break, go grab a drink, make myself something to eat, heck I could even let it run while I go off to work or go to sleep, after all this is only a once a year event and I have so many Lunar Tokens I need to use up before the weekend is over. I mean who's going to know right?
This would definitely give me an unfair advantage over another player that couldn't or wouldn't do the same, especially if this macro allows me to receive items, titles or whatever. If you're worried about your wrist hurting then go do something else for a while. I don't understand how this is even a discussion. |