Rt/- vs -/rt

I am interested in playing a rit, partly to toy with spirit spamming, and partly for the utility of being a hybrid when goofing off in pve. In looking at the rit primary skill, though, it seems rather underwhelming. Looking at either the ranger or necro who often seem to run /rt spammers using their energy efficient primary skills (and run a wide variety of other builds), I am curious whether the benefits of having a few extra points in channeling or communing outweigh the seeming lack of a decent primary skill?

Primary Rts can go ST Shelter which is a very powerful build.
Primary Rts are ofc the most powerful SoSers, spawning power helps.
Rt/R or R/Rt are used for some sc builds as SoS+EoE, so both works for that.
Rt/N are quite cool minion bombers with skills such as explosive growth and their main attribute providing healthier minions.
Primary Rts doesn't have as good e management just as you're saying.
Primary Rts can 600 tank with VwK, used for MQSC and for some minor farming.
Primary Rts are imo more deadly with SplinterBarrage than Rangers (higher damage from splinter > higher damage from barrage.

Rit primaries get access to spawing which makes the spirits alot more durable.

Quote: Originally Posted by Maya Cerestiez

Primary Rts doesn't have as good e management just as you're saying. Spirit Siphon says hi.

Don't bother with /Rt. Anything /Rt can do a Rt/ can do better.

Splinter Barrage = more damage + more procs (14 vs 10 or 12 channeling)
SoS = more damage, higher spirit HP/armor/level
ST = only Rt/
SoGM = more damage, higher spirit HP/armor level

even Restoration magic....the only reason to use N/Rt heroes is because they suck with energy. If you can manage Spirit Channeling and Spirit siphon properly, it's no big deal.

Thanks for the responses, that clarified things quite a bit.

It's a very significant increase in damage being able to run 16 Channeling vs. 12. Also, especially in HM, the additional durability of the spirits is very significant with minimal investment into Spawning.

Quote: Originally Posted by Outerworld

Rit primaries get access to spawing which makes the spirits alot more durable.



Spirit Siphon says hi. They have some good e skills in siphon, boon and others but just not as good as Soul Reaping and Expertise + Rts have to devote a skill slot for that. Didn't say they have no e management, just not as good as N and R primaries.

Quote: Originally Posted by Maya Cerestiez

They have some good e skills in siphon, boon and others but just not as good as Soul Reaping and Expertise + Rts have to devote a skill slot for that. Didn't say they have no e management, just not as good as N and R primaries. Properly used spirit siphon with multiple spirits is so much better than soul reaping or expertise that it isn't even funny.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kunder

Properly used spirit siphon with multiple spirits is so much better than soul reaping or expertise that it isn't even funny. Is he serious?

Quote: Originally Posted by turbo234

Quote: Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

Main advantage of spirit siphon is that it's energy on demand.
As pointed out by Chthon, you don't always get the kills for SR when you need them, while siphon is nearly the equivalent of an infinite amount of energy potions on your skill bar

SoSers are hardly in need of energy anyway, just rune/equip properly.

If talking only about energy for SoS I would still prefer passive e-management from soul reaping with 8 skills in bar over active playing spirit siphon on 7 skill bar. The extra energy from soul reaping happening randomly now and then is still more than enough to fuel entire SoS bar.

If I SoS though I do it on my Rt and there's no soul reaping and no spirit siphon going.

For Soul Reaping, SoLS is where it's at if you want to be running 6-12 Soul reaping, to be honest.

8 recharge, 0 cost, 1/4 cast for +5-8ish energy

Just to add the OTHER reason spirit siphon is better than Expertise or Soul reaping: How many great skills are available in them?

Expertise: Distracting Shot (of disputable use in many PvE areas). Not much else unless are you doing some kind of Glass Arrows spiker which isn't exactly amazing to begin with.
Soul Reaping: Masochism doesn't really count IMO since its maintainable at such a low spec. SoLS doesn't count because its doing what Soul Reaping should do but doesn't because Soul Reaping got nerfed. Foul feast barely makes the cut, but just how often are you afraid of conditions in PvE compared to how often you are afraid of lol300damagerape attacks?
Channeling: Signet of Spirits, Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage. There are other very good skills, but these are skills that are disputably among the strongest available to Rits, if not any class.

So Rits get all the energy management they could need + one of the strongest attributes skill-wise in the game all in one nice neat package. Other classes are dumping half of their attribute points into a dead-end attribute, which STILL doesn't give them all the energy they want to use on things, and they only have half of their attribute points to spend on an attribute that will actually give them useful skills. A Channeling Rit is one of the few instances I have to actually stop and ask myself "Do I really want 3 PvE skills? My Rit skills may be better." That says a LOT about how powerful Channeling is.

Siphon's got some downsides as e-management too. To me, Siphon can be a pain because you have to actively remember which spirit you drained and position your self to be able to drain the next one properly (if you're charged with healing via MB&S/Spirit Light/etc., most people would probably prefer that healing's a high priority, not where you're standing for Siphon). If you're using Summon Spirits to heal them in a fight/move out of AoE/etc., it can become even more of a headache. From what I've seen, heroes aren't too good at Siphoning. Plus, SR is passive and doesn't take up a skill slot.

Quote: Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

In short, Spirit Siphon @ 7 or more spirits > SR > Expertise Good theory propogation, always hard to evaluate SR (but you acknowledged the limitations well).

Quote: Originally Posted by Maya Cerestiez

They have some good e skills in siphon, boon and others but just not as good as Soul Reaping and Expertise + Rts have to devote a skill slot for that. Didn't say they have no e management, just not as good as N and R primaries. Soul Reaping is broken but it's not necessarily better. Spihon Spirit with SoS or anything with high number of spirits is just ridiculous.

Ranger's expertise is not nearly as good. Besides with rits, you have the option of 16 channel or whatever you choose.

The problem with spirit siphon is that it only works ok for a channeling spirit pooper. Last night I was trying a SOGM build and had some serious energy issues(boon didnt give enough back to keep on spamming). Normaly I rely on my spirit siphon, but there is no shortage on channeling spirit spammers. And to turn up channeling just for spirit siphon seems a bit unefficient.
The best thing about SR is that it doesn't cost a skill. :/

As SoGM, drop your spirits and pop Signet of Creation on recharge. Just make sure to let the Channeling Rit's spirits take the damage, since every spirit you lose is less energy for you. Also, Signet of Creation isn't a replacement for Boon of Creation; they should be used together.

When using only communig spirits i personally prefer to use ST instead of SOGM...insta-recharge and the reduced energy cost + Boon of creation gives you back a lot of energy...but probably you'll lose some damage(no SOGM = no IAS and + X dmg by spirits..).