Anet, please redo Asuran Scan - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

18 Feb 2011 at 17:33 - 1

I am probably one of the few people with a melee main character that was pleased with the update. Hell, I even didn't give 2 shits about the AoHM and Rendering Aura nerf or my MQSC Smite build. Its always nice to be given a challenge and reworking some of my favorite builds but I personally think Asuran Scan was hit to hard. Instead I suggest redoing AS to do +30-40% damage at max rank and keep the DP removal. I know its a long shot that you will listen to one person but maybe other peoples opinions will change your minds.

EDIT: Did not realize you could not be blocked since the skill description is not clear. Since testing it it does seem quit OP as it is in its new state but I am only worried about Rangers and Paragons. I dont play a paragon but I do play a ranger and it seems both are being forgotten and I doubt Anet will make any changes to them before GW2.

EDIT 2: Intensity was nerfed. The skill was abused on all spell casters and especially in MQSC.

EDIT 3:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I don't think it makes any sense that physicals had such a ridiculous damage buff that was multiplicative with other stacking buffs, while casters had nothing.

I really expected them to nerf AS to around 30% which would be closer to Intensity, not this you cant be missed crap that now completely negates blind and block enchants/stances. IMBAWAR is much more viable now though in most areas.

RedDog91

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2007

Farming for Nick gifts

R/

18 Feb 2011 at 17:45 - 2

A-Scan was used and abused way too much.
While I did enjoy it on one of my builds, its not the end of the world. There will always be updates that screw you on a few builds, so you need to not be static in your play style before hand. If all you ever do is one thing, you're gonna be screwed when that one thing changes for the worse.

I congratulate ANET for forcing people to think instead of play with a mindless skill.
/notsigned

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

18 Feb 2011 at 17:53 - 3

AS is actually still useful but rather niche skill. Ignoring melee hate is rather nice in some areas, but not an auto-include at all times. My only complaint is that it was an important crutch for rangers/paras that are unlikely to get a proper buff anytime soon.

Lord Mip

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Somewhere in a distant land..

Reign of Judgement [RoJ]

E/

18 Feb 2011 at 17:57 - 4

I have to agree with Reddog. Pretty much all the melee builds that were most effective had one slot devoted to Asuran Scan. If one skill is so vital that it is pretty much mandatory for all melee builds there's something wrong with the game I think. Asuran Scan was too powerful and will now find more creative use, while people get the ability to think of other, more creative ways to dish out more damage.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

18 Feb 2011 at 18:04 - 5

Asuran Scan was broken. It was horribly broken. Multiplicative damage boosts are insane and AS multiplied by a lot.
That said, this new skill is also horrendously broken. Being able to hit through block and blind is retarded and the DP removal is silly.

I actually don't know which function was worse. One was too mindless and the new one is retarded.

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

18 Feb 2011 at 18:14 - 6

This new version of AS is amazing, I see it being used just as much in heavy anti-melee areas like Ravenheart Gloom and Shards of Orr.

ruk1a

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

UR MOM LOL

ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES

A/

18 Feb 2011 at 18:23 - 7

i personally love the new AS, also lol @ "one of the few people with melee main characters"

Owik Gall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guardians of the Light

W/Mo

18 Feb 2011 at 18:30 - 8

I don't use A-scan anymore since I found a build that I enjoy very much, even without the godly damage spam. That said, there are other good builds that don't use A-scan.

/notsigned

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

18 Feb 2011 at 18:39 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

A-Scan was used and abused way too much.
While I did enjoy it on one of my builds, its not the end of the world. There will always be updates that screw you on a few builds, so you need to not be static in your play style before hand. If all you ever do is one thing, you're gonna be screwed when that one thing changes for the worse.

I congratulate ANET for forcing people to think instead of play with a mindless skill.
/notsigned

I would actually liked to have seen this skill go down with another abused skill (Shadowform) and a couple others. If their looking to nerf overpowered skills, at least start with the ones that are being abused and making a boat of gold.

This skill wouldn't be so bad if HEROES could use it, their brain dead as it is when it comes to melee. Unmissingable attacks? Since when did missing become a problem in PvE? Personally not running fast enough to roll mobs is my problem, "I wantz my 20 seconds back nao!" If you have high DP that needs removal, something is already wrong right there. This skill has no place in PvE, oh, and the AoE Vengeance, PFFFF HA HA HA HA. That's more useless than AoE Mending.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

18 Feb 2011 at 18:42 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Unmissingable attacks? Since when did missing become a problem in PvE?

Ravenheart Gloom, Shards of Orr and indeed anywhere that has more than a trivial amount of block, blind or miss hexes.

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

18 Feb 2011 at 18:44 - 11

/notsigned.
I could even agree that the original concept of the skill wasn't broken by himmself...but the numbers(+60%? lol) were too huge. And staks with all others physical buffs. Imho, the choice was between A-scan or orders+SoH and such. They chosen the first, only 1 skill to tweak.

Griffenex

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2011

Deep in the north where the polar bears are pets and the meese are horses.

Sleep Is For Noobs [Sleep]

Mo/Me

18 Feb 2011 at 18:45 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

I would actually liked to have seen this skill go down with another abused skill (Shadowform) and a couple others. If their looking to nerf overpowered skills, at least start with the ones that are being abused and making a boat of gold.

This skill wouldn't be so bad if HEROES could use it, their brain dead as it is when it comes to melee. Unmissingable attacks? Since when did missing become a problem in PvE? Personally not running fast enough to roll mobs is my problem, "I wantz my 20 seconds back nao!" If you have high DP that needs removal, something is already wrong right there. This skill has no place in PvE, oh, and the AoE Vengeance, PFFFF HA HA HA HA. That's more useless than AoE Mending.

And SF has been nerfed how many times already? Face it, SF isn't going anyway. People will still find a way to do stuff w/ the skill. Complaining about it = Pretty much useless.

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

18 Feb 2011 at 18:51 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffenex

And SF has been nerfed how many times already? Face it, SF isn't going anyway. People will still find a way to do stuff w/ the skill. Complaining about it = Pretty much useless.

It's not been nerfed; anet tried to word their justification to show it was nerfed, but it only made it even easier to farm with.

Griffenex

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2011

Deep in the north where the polar bears are pets and the meese are horses.

Sleep Is For Noobs [Sleep]

Mo/Me

18 Feb 2011 at 18:52 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

It's not been nerfed; anet tried to word their justification to show it was nerfed, but it only made it even easier to farm with.

Skill changed. It was nerfed.

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

18 Feb 2011 at 19:02 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffenex

Skill changed. It was nerfed.

So, Avatar of Dwayna was nerfed? Didn't know that.
Also, Intensity is a lolwut factor, Ele's need high damage not more AoE damage. Does the test kwere know this?! I tested Lightning Hammer with Intensity on 100 Armor dummy at 13 Lightning Magic, hits 66 on 100 and 33 on everything else. 33 damage... /sigh, I can't tell if this was a nerf or buff. It's still just as useless.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

18 Feb 2011 at 19:15 - 16

I personally use only three PvE skills now, but truthfully, the more PvE-only skills get nerfed, the better. Maybe nerfed ain't the best word - just change their numbers and/or functionality to something less overpowered.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

18 Feb 2011 at 19:17 - 17

I'm quite fond of getting past annoying foes and conditions, so I like the new version.

Just let it go and adapt. It's possible to adapt since physicals are still more than fine.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

18 Feb 2011 at 19:17 - 18

Personnaly I think all the PvE only skill changes were not thought/tested out. DP removal? really lol? Ok, so the garunteed hit is nice but u can do that with other skills. The changes to the pve only skills are pretty sad....mainly b/c they simply make 0 sense.

Atro

Miss the good ol' days

Join Date: Sep 2009

Where don't I live?

A/

18 Feb 2011 at 19:20 - 19

Tho I signed yes. I think they changed because as they were testing out skills in conjunction with meta pve skills they saw that it was too powerful to keep it the way it was

AngelWJedi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2008

orlando,florida

Society of Souls [Argh]

Rt/E

18 Feb 2011 at 19:27 - 20

i only agreed with it changed since its to much like that one ghost skill. forgot what its called but its one you get when you die fighting dhuum. oo;

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

18 Feb 2011 at 19:30 - 21

I don't think it makes any sense that physicals had such a ridiculous damage buff that was multiplicative with other stacking buffs, while casters had nothing.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

18 Feb 2011 at 19:45 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

So, Avatar of Dwayna was nerfed? Didn't know that.
Also, Intensity is a lolwut factor, Ele's need high damage not more AoE damage. Does the test kwere know this?! I tested Lightning Hammer with Intensity on 100 Armor dummy at 13 Lightning Magic, hits 66 on 100 and 33 on everything else. 33 damage... /sigh, I can't tell if this was a nerf or buff. It's still just as useless.

did you try phoenix with it? that is aoe around your character+damage to the target, + a second aoe at the target's location due to Intensity. I need to go see if it's viable.

On topic, idk what to think of AS now really. It seems like it is better all around than it was before. Cover hex with low cost + low recharge that you can instantly cast + you can't miss even when blind, wut?

This is the problem when a game stays stale for far too long. People get so used to doing what they have done for months on end that they forget how to make builds and be creative. I think this update also showed me how much the player base wants more skill changes on a regular basis even if just small changes. It keeps the game from getting static. Costumes are nice, but making builds is the engine that drives the game.

EDIT Tried Intensity + Phoenix and the Rodgort's Invocation and they are both pretty lackluster on the 100AL target. Guess the "Nuker" is still relegated to support. I am failing to see the point of the Intensity change now as Earth Magic doesn't support use of this skill at all. Obsidian Flame would be good but it isn't elemental damage. Air Magic sees the "best"(?) use of this but the damage isn't attractive enough to warrant a slot. Energy Blast is in the same boat as Obby Flame. Rodgort's Invocation, and Invoke Lightning seem the best application of the skill or maybe Chain Lightning, but I really disagree with the change seeing as it now limits usage to a handful of skills.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Holland

[GaMe]

Rt/

18 Feb 2011 at 20:05 - 23

i like this skill tbh, i liked the previous one too, and dont think people should say the word "overpowered" so much, but this makes you not miss and get rid of DP

see, melee + miss (blind or block) is bad, so this skill makes it up, and i think this gets rid of blocking and blind condition (hope thats the case) as it says you cannot miss, PLUS you get rid of some DP, which i hope stacks with normal DP reduction from enemy kills

so even though i liked the old one some more, i have nothing to complain here

and it has 5 energy cost and 5 sec recharge, so you can use it alot on monsters, just make sure you use it on monsters with block skills and at monsters in a group which has blinding skills

ps. just a small thing:
nerf = something is less useful (in general)
buff = something is more useful (also in general)
and this skill just has a different function, and since you can hit for sure, i doubt its either a buff or nerf, just a change

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

18 Feb 2011 at 20:39 - 24

No, no way in hell.

It seems that the people who were left with GW1 have more balls than the rest of the whole ANet- "nerfing a pve-only skill?! JESUS CHRIST, THIS IS HUGE!"
I congratulate them for it and I wish that the rest of AN grows some balls too, because otherwise GW2 will be a goddamn casual feast without any challenge.

AmbientMelody

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2009

Poland

N/A

18 Feb 2011 at 20:59 - 25

I have another idea: remove the PvE skills altogether to promote bigger build diversity and reduce the reliance on meta-gaming in instances.

Alternatively, limit PvE skills to one slot per skillbar, and change the skill effect so they offer interesting niche choices, instead of warranting themselves a skill slot in every build, thanks to the powercreep they introduce.

/thread

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

18 Feb 2011 at 21:08 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

No, no way in hell.

It seems that the people who were left with GW1 have more balls than the rest of the whole ANet- "nerfing a pve-only skill?! JESUS CHRIST, THIS IS HUGE!"
I congratulate them for it and I wish that the rest of AN grows some balls too, because otherwise GW2 will be a goddamn casual feast without any challenge.

No one is freaking out at this, sure, it's annoying now that the skill is useless, but all physicals can brush it off their loss.

Nerf shadowform, all hell will break lose "MY ECTOS ARE FOREVER OUT OF MY REACH!!! wat am i supposeto do? farm with [email protected] nevar!"

Hugh Manatee

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Nice But Deadly[nice]

N/

18 Feb 2011 at 21:35 - 27

Though this tanked a few really cool assassin bars I had, and seeing pretty numbers was cool I don't really miss the old function much, I can just replace it with I am the Strongest or Dodge this.

The new function makes more sense thematically, scanning=never miss, and the DP removal without consumables... just wow. I wish I had this while vanquishing...

miriforst

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

Avalons Wraiths

R/Rt

18 Feb 2011 at 22:07 - 28

Only strange thing with it is that you are probably only going to enjoy the dp removal in other areas than dhuum chamber or in areas where you no longer gain experience (in that case lol at dying

) since dp is removed easy as hell in hard mode anyways (and if you accumulate dp THAT fast you do not deserve to succeed and even then theres a bigger problem with your partys dp rather than your own.

saint666

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

LOL

A/

18 Feb 2011 at 22:49 - 29

the curent AS is pretty decent, it allows melees into some elite missions that would of be otherwise undoable. The only suggestion I'd make to it make to it is replace the 5% dp removal with something else....I still need to get rid of 3 stacks of candy canes...it's kind of redundant with the abundance of dp removal items.

For 9...12 seconds your attacks cannot miss target foe. Your attacks against target foe do +5...15 damage.

This would give the skill more general application rather than just for very specific circumstances. It's a small additive buff that doesn't have the multiplicative effects of a % buff.

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

18 Feb 2011 at 22:53 - 30

/notsigned

I welcome the removal of a "required" PvE skill from the game.

Especially a boring, skillless "use it on everything you attack" PvE skill that does nothing more than add extra damage on top of your attacks.

A community that believes Melee/Physical attackers in Guild Wars have 7-slot skillbars and require some Asuran rep to work properly is a sick community. Anet is here with your medicine. You'll be better soon.

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

18 Feb 2011 at 23:02 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Personnaly I think all the PvE only skill changes were not thought/tested out. DP removal? really lol? Ok, so the garunteed hit is nice but u can do that with other skills. The changes to the pve only skills are pretty sad....mainly b/c they simply make 0 sense.

Agree with this. Lose DP? Isn't that more OP? You will never fail a vanquish or Hard Mode dungeon again if you take Ascan... Even a caster can use this for the DP removal. Ridiculous change, and obliviates the use of DP removal consumables.

By Ural's is just a pure griever skill.

Shriketalon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

18 Feb 2011 at 23:24 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Agree with this. Lose DP? Isn't that more OP? You will never fail a vanquish or Hard Mode dungeon again if you take Ascan... Even a caster can use this for the DP removal. Ridiculous change, and obliviates the use of DP removal consumables.

Perhaps, but Death Penalty is already a failed game mechanic. That's why they are making it obsolete in GW2.

The more steps taken to eliminate it, the better.

Rites

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2010

Deep in the belly of Texas

R/

18 Feb 2011 at 23:31 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

I congratulate ANET for forcing people to think instead of play with a mindless skill.
/notsigned

agreed..

now if they would just nerf a few more PvE skills (like pain inverter)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

I have another idea: remove the PvE skills altogether to promote bigger build diversity and reduce the reliance on meta-gaming in instances.

Alternatively, limit PvE skills to one slot per skillbar, and change the skill effect so they offer interesting niche choices, instead of warranting themselves a skill slot in every build, thanks to the powercreep they introduce.

/thread

yeah this could do too

Outerworld

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

UK

Gil Worz Is Srs [Bsns]

W/

18 Feb 2011 at 23:41 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Perhaps, but Death Penalty is already a failed game mechanic. That's why they are making it obsolete in GW2.

The more steps taken to eliminate it, the better.

Gw and Gw2 are completly different games, trying to eliminate dp in this game is actually just making it easier.

Shriketalon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

18 Feb 2011 at 23:51 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Gw and Gw2 are completly different games, trying to eliminate dp in this game is actually just making it easier.

But it's already been eliminated, it just comes with a ludicrous logistical component now. If you have a loads of candy, Death Penalty doesn't exist. At all.

As a game mechanic, DP proved to be poor for the overall experience. It meant people could lose a fight before they even started if their DP was too high, and were forced to start over because of events that occurred far in the past.

The game doesn't need DP to be challenging. Look at the War in Kryta. It provided more challenge by making the enemies actually interesting, forcing players to watch their targets and learn their behavior rather than simply going for the one with the Monk name, and ensuring that opponents used actual skill synergy rather than a random lump of abilities.

Forcing players to bring more candy doesn't make a better game. Making moment-to-moment combat more interesting and challenging does.

Rites

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2010

Deep in the belly of Texas

R/

18 Feb 2011 at 23:52 - 36

i'm trying to understand how the DP was a failed game mechanic? lets see, you wipe, you get weaker, you keep wiping you have to start over (well in HM anyway). i actually like DP cuz it forces you to learn NOT to die. although some peeps have used the DP as an advantage in some builds, but still. what exactly was wrong with the mechanic behind DP?

/ninja'd by the poster above

and i dont think a game mechanic that forces you to learn how to play without dying is a failure, but i do agree that with the addition of candy to remove DP, they ruined the purpose of DP

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

18 Feb 2011 at 23:54 - 37

I for once welcome or new Asuran overlords.

There are plenty of ways to get more damage, but hitting while blind and regardless of any block? That's priceless!

I don't care about the DP removal, though. I found much more practical NOT TO DIE, than bringing resurrections and recovering DP after death.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

18 Feb 2011 at 23:58 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

As a game mechanic, DP proved to be poor for the overall experience. It meant people could lose a fight before they even started if their DP was too high, and were forced to start over because of events that occurred far in the past.

Death Penalty acts as a check. If you've cocked up, the game is doubting your ability to pass a challenge (or sequence of challenges; this is what PvE instances are made up of). It still lets you try, but under a more stringent test. It returns to the normal point after you've enjoyed some success. The more you fail, the harder the test - you need to be able to prove you really can do something under a harsh set of conditions to convince the game you should be allowed through. In Hard Mode, the game ultimately fails you if you die too much and kicks you from the instance.

It reinforces the notion that if you're dying a lot, then you're doing something very wrong and should try again.

Outerworld

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

UK

Gil Worz Is Srs [Bsns]

W/

18 Feb 2011 at 23:59 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

But it's already been eliminated, it just comes with a ludicrous logistical component now. If you have a loads of candy, Death Penalty doesn't exist. At all.

As a game mechanic, DP proved to be poor for the overall experience. It meant people could lose a fight before they even started if their DP was too high, and were forced to start over because of events that occurred far in the past.

The game doesn't need DP to be challenging. Look at the War in Kryta. It provided more challenge by making the enemies actually interesting, forcing players to watch their targets and learn their behavior rather than simply going for the one with the Monk name, and ensuring that opponents used actual skill synergy rather than a random lump of abilities.

Forcing players to bring more candy doesn't make a better game. Making moment-to-moment combat more interesting and challenging does.

Its not suppossed to make the game harder, rather punish you for mistakes. DP removal in any form other than losing it through killing should not exist since it bassically wipes the slate clean. Also players are hardly forced to bring candy canes...

Ayuhmii Shanbwa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Holland

[GaMe]

Rt/

19 Feb 2011 at 00:07 - 40

am i the only one not using DP removals? at least 1 of the few, i think

pve only skills are here for a reason, they make people happy

asura scan was something attackers like(d), and now that its made so that you dont increase dmg, people think its unfair
i never even used it, and yet i will try derv later to see what i can use

other pve only skills are different, like pi is mostly for HM, IF there are dmg dealers like eles

i think that it wasnt that bad before, but asura scan now is a lil better imo, as it let you hit things, and removes DP if target die

if they want to, they can make its recharge time longer, so that it wont be keep up, but what players want, is what anet does (lately)
instead of complaining about some dmg (i say some, as there's much more to deal dmg with), try some other +dmg skills

i never liked much nerfs they did, but this isnt one, it makes it easier to hit, so you cant miss.... you can dmg them more then when you were blinded(does it work with this condition?)/when they blocked or when hexed with blurred vision
you hit for 100% AND lose more DP than before, without cons. with every kill, just make sure you kill em fast enough, or hex em again

i dont say its overpowered, as people say that too soon imo, but its good, and it helps any attack build o_O not just the dmg dealers (and DP removal)

ahum, thats what i had to say about it