"I Can Be Your Hero, Baby..."

In a discussion about GW2, I mentioned how I will miss having heroes in the new game, and that got me thinking...

I love having heroes. I enjoy equipping them, changing their builds, dragging them all over hell and gone with me. I am very much looking forward to the 7-hero build when it is released, and I'm excited by the prospect of building a nicely balanced team of heroes to accompany me in further exploits & explorations!

My friend Missy and I play together... we often make cracks about having to take Death Nova away from Olias because he will sometimes do little more than stand way back with his minions and cast DN on them over and over and over... they don't jump into the fray, and he drains all his energy recasting DN on them. So we put him in a "time out" when he is "misbehaving" and micro-manage DN. That tendency to "misbehave" has helped mentally create a personality for him.

In my mind, each of my heroes has a different personality... a different "feel" to them. Am I alone in this? I know that in past discussions here about pets, we've talked about what it felt like to set our first companion loose at the menagerie... I was one of the ones (but not the only apparently LOL) who had to keep running back to make sure they'd give me my Melandru Stalker back before I was willing to go out and try to charm another pet. *grinning* I didn't expect to find myself feeling a similar attachment to my heroes, but I do... I rely on them to help keep me alive in a battle, to help me get through a mission, to meet my goals. I'm going to miss their "companionship" when GW2 comes out... and maybe that makes me enjoy their presence that much more in GW1.

What about you? Do you find that you are somewhat "attached" to your heroes? Do you see patterns in their behavior (like my issue with Olias & his use of DN) that become "part" of them in your mind? Do you find that you have a standard three who accompany you most often? Does it bother you on any level if you have to leave one (or more) of those three behind for one reason or another?

What personality quirks have you noticed in (or attributed to LOL) your heroes? And how often do you find yourself lecturing them about proper use of their skills? ROFL

I dont often lecture my heros.

Unleash a torrent of profanity and jestures, yes.

I have given mine nicnames....sosuke is so sucky, dunkoro is ducko or dummy, etc... I gave up talking to vekk since he rarely listens and just does as he pleases (seems to have a bit of his dad in him...ok more than a bit)..and yes I have had to speak with olias on many occasions---and he no longer has death nova since he cant seem to use it correctly (and sometimes refuses to use AotL)....
I like to bring gwen, kerien and pyre ...just to see how they interact (they usually all ignore each other)....

My dunkoro often tend to get lost in speculations about strategy. Often when he is about to give "advice" of what to do and getting ready to a speach the rest of his team is hurt or dead....ooops was I supposed to heal?
I open his bar and he got plenty of energy and nice heal skills recharged and ready to use, but he just idles. Then HE gets time out for the next trip and I take Tahlkora or Ogden or henchmonks instead.
Zhed is well known, in my guild he is called Zhed Aggrohoof. To him everything whatever it is legless snakes or insects with lots of legs are "imprudent two-legs" and must die immediately, it doesnt matter if hes out of energy or anything, he aggros them.

Practice practice practice makes perfect. I've tried all kinds of synergy builds on the heroes I do use and eventually found the best dps for several of them. They don't use every build and every skill for sure like we do and in the order we do so you just have to keep practicing till you find the right combo's. Like I did with my Discord build for heroes. Others laughed at it like it was for humans but it works perfectly for the way I have built my heroes and they will take a mob down within seconds now. Olias makes a great monk though with the right skills. Livia and Master and myself are the destroyers. I hardly have to take any other henchmen in most places anymore. Sure in hard mode I need more damage and healing power but I've found I do rather well just playing in normal mode with the 4 of us. Sometimes it's just fun to watch Master and Livia and Olias play and I just go around collecting up loot. Those are my favorite ones an occassionally I'll take Gwen for interupting power and leave Livia at home. I love the interupt henchie archer as well. The Faction female monk is pretty useful too what's her name Kim? or something like that.

Kihm is in NF, maybe you think of sister Tai.
And yes some skills are just not good for heroes, you can get far by tweaking their builds.

Yes, even though I know the AI is pretty much the same, I swear my heroes all act differently.

I tend to use Talkora as a Monk simply because I think dunk and ogden are leeeroyish incompetants. Even with the same skills... they just do dumb things. When I use a hero monk, it is Talkora, and she is the one with me when I NEED one.

I adore Xandra.. she just rocks. I spoil her too. She is the kid in my group, to me. I have her along most of the time.

Gwen.. I feel the same towards Her as hero as I do as NPC. pretty meh. She is the last to get hero armor, I never put her statue up, I dont care what her weapon looks like. If norgu wasnt such a dipstick I would replace her. she is there for her skillset only, and if I can get by without her, I do. She does a decent job.. but I would ship her off in a heartbeat if I had a choice besides Norgu. The more ANET inflates her "Heroic" role, the less I like her.

For some reason I love Jinn and Melonni, and stick them in groups even if marginal just so they dont "feel bad". Same with Jora.. she always gets to rawr in my goof off groups.

Liv and Hayda are like.. reliable. I give em thier skills and let em do thier job.. and never worry about them. My Livs are nearly always curse build so she doesnt have to manage minions, and I can take her anywhere. Olias does bug me a lot, as he seems to forget he has to follow me.. or has a too broad interpretation of "flagged" followed by his silly death scream, and me going wtf were you DOING OVER THERE.

Vekk.. omg. I despaired of him EVER learning. You have a staff, it is ranged, RANGED you little twit. Finally I gave him a modded club of a thousand bears, an earth ele build, and let him happily bash away like the frustrated little caveman he wants to be. Surprisingly it works.


Thackaray, IF I ever allowed him in group, would get staked out as bait. I wont even rune him.. and I think I stole his bow. After Hearts of the North I have an irrational hatred of him that just won't go away. I have every other companion in game in my HOM.. and I can guarantee he wont ever be there.

Hench.. well I did all of Proph with just hench.. and the two standouts I recall are THOM NOOO!!! and then omg .... alesia..come back...

Re. pets.. My ranger had the first Stalker she tamed in pre.. right up to Menagerie coming in.. other pets I forced my heroes to tame. I did the same.. showed Persis to the keeper then ran to check if she really was available before I would EVER turn her loose. I have now every charmable pet in game.. and still, Persis is the one that always goes back on my bar.

If you ping your targets the minions will follow and you won't have that issue.

"Zhed"- Centaur for "Leeroy!" I haven't taken him in a party (except where mandatory) in a very, very long time. (Nice to see that I'm not the only one who has experienced this.)

Olias - Sometimes I think that he thinks that PvE is a spectator sport and is only there to provide the spectators. (as a MM, of course)

Talkora gets all the best drops.

Jora has a kind of "Oh goody! I get to kill something!" mind-set.

Gwen has a split personality. Give her the same skills, weapon, team, and even the same mobs (the same everything), she'll do very well or she'll suck. It just depends on which Gwen shows up.

Ooooh yes. My heroes and I are good buddies (when I don't want to strangle them). XD

Xandra is almost always in my party. I know the AI is all the same but she's probably one of the more obviously reliable heroes that I have. I never have to watch her energy or micro anything I give her. She's just awesome.

Livia is pretty much the same way. Whispers and Olias are pretty much stuck with their bars (because they're idiots and it if ain't broke I'm not about to "fix" it for them) but Livia gets the experimental builds. Seems to me that she can run a variety with at least some efficiency.

And I know I shouldn't bother with melee heroes much because the AI is questionable at best, but I've got a soft spot for Koss (I think it's all about his fabulous hair) and Kahmu. They've got personality! Actually in my crazy-detailed character backstories Kahmu is married to my main Elementalist.

As far as the henchmen, Herta's proven pretty useful to me, and the majority of the GW:EN henchies are pretty solid. Factions has some interesting henchmen as well, and I'm including Su in that even if her MM build isn't that great. Prophecies...let's just say I reeeeeeeeally like heroes. XD

Dunky, Oggers, Tahlk, Whisps, and Crazy Horse are just some of the nicknames I have for the losers who like to tag along.

I don't see any of that, all I can say about my heroes is that I set each of them with a builds that I see that fit them the most. I also give them each a pet based on that.

Koss - Axe-Tactics. I use him mainly to get rid of stances, some interruption, deep wound, and give a little support to the party.
Dunkoro - I set him to healing prayer mainly.
Melonni - I usually set her with earth prayers, and avatar of menaldru or dwayna, and builds with heavy enchantment usage.
Tahlkora - This one I set with protection builds.
Zhed Shadowhoof - Water for this one. Never go anywhere near flame titans or fire elementalas without Zhed.
General Morgahn - Morgahn I set mainly with leadership-spear. "They're on Fire!" Anthem of Flame, etc.
Goren - Goren is the hammer guy. I'm fond of a particular build with dwarven battle stance.
Acolyte Jin - Jin is my interruption ranger. Spreading Dazing and Chocking gas.
Margrid the Sly - Margrid is usually a second interruption ranger, or a beast master.
Master of Whispers - I set master of whispers with curses builds.
Norgu - I usually set him with illusion builds, against attackers, or to support interruption, or with a Psychic Instability and domination spells, to support Gwen when she goes Panic. No one castas with those two together!
Acolyte Sousuke goes usually earth or fire.
Razah is usually the spirit spammer with channelling or communing.-
Olias & Livia. Olias should have death magic builds, but I like Livia better and use death magic more, so I switched them, and olias is stuck with blood, and livia gets death.
Zenmai&Anton - Seriously. Anyone uses them? Really? Who? Ha!
Ogden Stonehealer - This one's my smiter.
Vekk - Air weapon-hate builds.
Gwen - Domination mainly. Panic, regret, power block, etc...
Xandra - Restoration or communing, healing and support mainly.
Kahmu - He usually gets grenth or balthazar avatars, and builds with few enchantments on.
Jora - Sword. I usually make her bring dazing, crippling, and some damage sometimes.
Pyre Fierceshot - I give pire short or hornbows and use him for clrippling, and barrage builds.
Hayda - Command mainly.
Keiran Thackeray goes motivation. I keep the bow and make him use volley to build up adrenaline quicker.
M.O.X. - I usually give him builds that rely less on having enchantments on, and Forsaken insignia.

As for the pets:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...nArkanere/Pets

I keep telling Olias to stop staring at my Gaki's thong. Olias can't help it though. I think it's Olias' chaps that are the problem really.

jora is hot, nuff said

I've long since given up on Vekk and Zhed. I think they're both miffed about being elementalists and the fact that they can't really do damage in HM, and so they want to be warriors instead.

Olias is sometimes more of a cheerleader than an actual participant. He will also sometimes ignore minions to cast Death Nova on me.

I used to always use Melonni, but her following me fearlessly into the heart of battle would sometimes overaggro and I wound up leaving her behind. Thanks to the update, she's back and stapled to my party window, and we're a two-woman team of whirling death.

Being a noob, I'm still learning what skills to give the heroes, but there are a few trends. I seem to end up with Ogden as monk/rit, Pyre for ranged/necro, and Jora or MOX as the tank. Zho seems to be a survivor, usually the last one to fall when a party gets wiped, though Ogden hangs in there too. I've grown to appreciate Lina for her drive to protect other characters, and Herta for her resurrecting ability (in addition to being smoking). I'm not using Gwen much so far, maybe because I'm used to having to leave her out of the group while I run missions to help Keiran get her, and partly because I'm not certain yet of how capable she is.
I've gone back to using heroes meant for a particular campaign more often lately -- Nightfall heroes for the Nightfall campaign, etc. It started seeming too easy to unleash EotN heroes on earlier games such as Prophecies.
Edit: Sorry for mixing henchmen in with heroes above.

I usually just yell "Olias, you suck!" at the screen.

Even though heroes are nothing more than AI and copypasta code, they do seem to have their own personalities. Even from account to account too. For example, if my friend and I were to run the SAME Mesmer build (down to weapon stats and armor stats) on both of our Gwen's, my Gwen ALWAYS sucks at the game. In fact, all of my heroes suck, cept' for Ogden. He has a manly beard and he is good at healing himself while I'm dying.

I swear the AI isn't copy paste.
Olias loves to be where he shouldn't be, always.
If I flag him, he's somehow farther away from the flag then the melee heroes and henchmen. How I have no bloody clue. I could give Livia the same build and she will behave herself.

If im lazy and running away from a foe, even if I turn off all of Olias' skills somehow, some how he is still at the back, being attacked by monsters as we're half a danger-zone away from him.
Dudes a serious masochist just loves getting hurt.

Vekk with ER won't die for whatever reason it doesn't even make sense to me, he has nothing to heal himself with, just can reduce damage he and we take and yet, everbody could be dead, and Vekk will be there at full friggen health. Give anyone else the same build, and they're dead. Do monsters like Asura or something?

Vekk is tank, Olias is idiot.

I don't have any attachment to the heroes because they're all the same mindless bots that are hardly aware of anything.

on my main toon all my heroes have their specific builds because they each have specific purposes/missions i use them for

my main healer has always been ogden, and he still uses the old well of power healer build, and he uses it well
gwen is my main interrupter whenever i choose to use her
when i'm bored and just looking to run around killing everything i use my 3 pet barrage hero team

yes... i do like my heroes

The extent of my communication with H/H is shouting profanities and blaming them for everything.

Wow, swap a few roles, and this list is almost exactly how I have mine built. It was as if I wrote this list myself...

I always play monk as my favourite proffesion but for some reason i've grown attached (in a completly heteroway) to mhenlo! He must always be in my team if another monk is required.

Olias..actually if there is one hero that seems to be different it would be him. He does seem to die alot and not stand back when required, interesting u guys have the same response. I thought it was the runes i had gave him giving him not enough health but no.....it really isnt not i grow to see.

also i see its not just the default biulds but you cannot help think each hero's weapon is chosen for them.

Koss - Axe, Goren - Hammer, Jora - Sword
Dunkoro - healing, Tahlkora - protection etc...

-Tahlkora is boss. I trust her enough that I sometimes use her as the sole healer.
-Mox is a meatshield, he's almost entirely useless.
-Sosuke, zhed, vekk are my three musketeers.

After years of Hero Battles and PvE, I've become very accustomed to me heroes, so much so that I know they're strengths and weaknesses. For instance:

Tahlkora - she's the best monk. period. I can always count on her to support me.
Ogden - he's a great smiter but has very bad judgement. Once, in HB, he shadowstepped out of range and let the rest of us die (i forgot to disable the skill but tahlkora was fine even with the shadowstep available to her)
Dunkoro - nice heals ty
Sousuke - amazing in 1v1s
Zhed - Unleashes everything in short bursts and then crumbles
Vekk - very consistent but tends to over-kite
Gwen - she beats Norgu easily
Margrid - If I need interrupts, she's the one I call
Pyre - best beast master but gets solo'd too easy
Jin - Acolyte Neverdies
Master of Whispers - Master of Minions
Livia - She's just awesome in everyway
Olias - annoying but until they bring 7 heroes in, I'm gonna have to tolerate him. Only thing he's pro at is landing barbs on my targets.
Xandra - She really shines in resto/channeling type builds.
Razah - he can't stand on his own two feet but if he has backup, he's unstoppable
Goren - He's made for spear builds

I also find that, when pveing with my sin, I must take tahlkora, dunkoro and vekk. It must always be those 3 together. If I change one out, they all go. It's because they were my HB heroes for so long and it's like the 4 of us are family

I use Gwen, Xandra and Master of Whispers.

Ocassionaly I drop Gwen for Razzah if I want spiritway.

Aside from that they never change on any of my toons unless Nightfall forces me to, in which case I usually drop Gwen. The limited hero spots means I need to get the bang for my buck in the three places I have, Minion Master, Spirit Spammer and Psychic Instability is what I've decided is the optimum build for almost any situation.

I used to vary my heroes a bit more, bringing whomever I though was more suited to the content's story line (in Factions I usually bring Sousuke, Jinn and Xandra or Zenmai) but sometimes HM makes me want for more optimised builds. WiK and Zaishen quests killed my preference for bringing heroes I liked and enjoyed playing with; the shoe horning of players into HM meant I had to alter my team to suit the content and my builds were less creative and fun if I wanted to complete content at all or in times that were acceptable.

Maybe after the hero cap is removed I will pick heroes based on character and a fun balanced party now that I control everyone's bars.

O'Lazius as in:

"Ah! I see from all the fresh corpses that there must have been a fierce battle here just recently. Fortunately, I do not need any of them since I was keeping my minions safe back on that hill!"

Every time i see melee heroes AI in action i have an mental image of retarded kids with swords, axes, scythes and other melee weps running around aimlessly, screaming and bumping into each other.
Especially when it comes to Koss.

I've been trying an unlikely build lately -- making Jora a warrior/assassin. I was surprised that she actually is using shadowstep; I halfway suspected she wouldn't use assassin abilities. This is for two of my characters/parties -- with other characters, Jora is a warrior/paragon or whatever.

Oh yes they have personalties and it's both good and bad. But even if they misbehave from time to time i really enjoy playing with them.

Dunkoro is my main monk! He's a champ and rarely runs out of energy even in intense and/or long battles. If i bring another monk hero to do "his job" with the same build, they strangely don't seem to handle it as well.
Ogden is the guy who never seem to be at the right place at the right time. He's the goof that you can't fix no matter how much you try to help him by micro his every step. He's the short, slightly senile grandpa of the team.

All the others have their place too of course just Keiran who's a bit new to the bunch but he's slowly getting to know the others. Like i always feel bad if i don't use Keiran and Gwen at the same time. They deserve it no?

Heroes have no quirks. They are AI-controlled and all heroes of the same class behave absolutely identical, given the same build, runes, weapons and position in the party list.

There are heroes I prefer over others, however. This depends on their build, on their location of the drop-down list, and of course upon their look.

For example, I skilled Master of Whispers as a minion master because he is the first Necromancer on the drop-down list, and I have a mouse hotkey bound to the "control hero 1" action to set his flag. This way, he must be the first hero I add to my party to be able to push him and his minions into battle.
I never take Ogden Stonehealer, because he is so ugly.
I prefer Gwen over Norgu, because she looks better then Norgu.
I prefer Acolyte Jin over the other rangers, because she is the first ranger on the drop-down list and I never take more than 1 ranger. Pyre Fierceshot would be much cooler, but he is too far down on that list.

I just recently got Kieran and spec'ed him out as a P/W with Swordsmanship, Tactics, and Motivation...emphasis on stances. He seems to take on the role pretty well and uses the sword in a fairly effective manner. I've been pleased so far :-)

I'm rolling on the floor laughing at the experience people are having with their heros. I completely agree with most of you.

Oggy is usually my main healer monk, as I had EOTN before Nightfall and am used to him. Dunkoro sucks for both my wife and I, and we call him "Drunky" as he's either drunk or senile. Talhkora is my protection monk, and she NEVER has any problems with that role.
Zhed is my water ele, Vekk is fire, and Sousuke is either fire or water/earth. I dont usually bring ele's but I havent noticed any problems with them when I do.
Hayda friggin rocks. She's hawt, and she shouts at me like the bad boy I am. Morgahn has the same drunk and senile problem that Dunkoro has. I only have Keiran on one char, and I set him up as a P/R with motivation and marksmanship skills.
Anton and Zenmai dont get much play, but I do like setting up Zenmai as a A/R with the ranger preparation that interrupts on criticals. She does well with it for the most part.
Gwen is my dominatrix. She's the first one to get the Deldrimor armor upgrade, as her outfit just looks hot. Norgu I cant get away from the buffet table.
Jin, Pyre, and Margrid all have their roles, usually casting frozen soil or winter when needed. Otherwise I have better heros to use. They'll probably see more use when the 7 hero party update happens.
Xandra and Razah are great. I usually have Xandra has channeling and Razah as communing prot spirits. They definitely have a spot on all of my char's teams.
MOX, Melonni, Kahmu, Koss, Jora, and Goren dont see much use either. Most of my chars are midrank, so I bring warrior henchmen instead as meat shields. Goren stays as hammer with Dwarven Battle Stance, and Koss and Jora are swords.
For necros, I almost always bring Livia for the eye candy. She's either minion master, or blood magic if there's no corpses. Olias usually does his job and I rarely use Master of Whispers. When I do, they're curses builds.

Thanks for the laugh, this thread is great.

Am I the only one who actually likes Norgu? I mean, sure, every time something like pie drops he eats it, but hey. It's part of his charm!

I like Norgu when I give Gwen Panic, and I give him Psychic Instability.

It's like: Who is gonna cast? NO-BODY!!
(Ghostbusters theme music in the background)

No, I'm not attached to them at all. I hate them.

I hate them BECAUSE of the patterns in their behaviour that have become a part of them in my mind:

1. Inane, unwanted text boxes popping up saying stuff that doesn't matter! Yes, yes, Abaddon is dead, and Grenth is not going to make the same mistake, and blah blah BLAH! I know, Olias. I know. You told me already. Four years ago. Put a cork in it.

2. Olias casts Life! Everyone "shifts around in a circle!" Life dies! Everyone "shifts around in a circle" again! Olias casts life! Everyone "shifts around in..." *sigh* QUIT IT! STAND STILL! OMFG!! When Master of Whispers drops a "Protective was Kaoli" and we're all just standing idle, you don't need to shift around in a formation to "make room" for the pot he just dropped!

3. I can see the Maelstrom coming. There are Ice Imps everywhere. I'm on the lookout for it. It falls out of the sky. Why can't you see it!? Why do you just stand there for 2 interrupts before you get off your butt and MOVE?

4. "Oh wait, the heroes on this character don't have runes or weapons... can one of you guys bring one of yours? No runes or weapons on yours either? Ok, let me log my main, salvage his heroes' runes, and get their weapons... brb" <----- FAIL.




Guild Wars 2 can't come soon enough. Three cheers for NOT being required to bring three or more AI bots along with me everywhere I go.



PS: I appreciate that heroes are better than henchmen. I'd just prefer not bringing any of 'em.

Off-topic for a second, but could someone explain the heroes' tableau in Rata Sum for me? Four heroines have their hands raised while Mhenlo talks and laughs, and Cynn stamps her foot and pouts. Are the heroines saying "Pick me", or are they saying "I know the answer" to whatever Mhenlo is saying? It's one of the more memorable tableaus from EotN.

The only hero that brings a particular thought to my head every single time i see it is Zhed.
"Darn no IMS...Shotgun on Zhed!"

And yet.. of all that you mentioned.. the Hero AI has yet to develop the monumental capacity for sheer incompetence that human players can achieve.