Is Factions impossible or am I doing something wrong?

Hey all. I've had guild wars for a long time now, and usually I play in bursts every once in a while, because as far as I can tell there's loads of content to this game, but this is my first time going through Factions, and for the sake of argument let's say that I forgot most of the basics.

Currently I've got a W/R and I'm running through all 3 campaigns as I go (I just met Glint in prophecies, and got 2 or 3 missions done in elona), and I am finding that factions missions take me significant amounts of effort to get through, and I'm just not understanding why. Well, I sort of am, but that's besides the point.

I'm running a Warrior hammer build, with mox/tahlkora/dunkoro as heroes + healer healer archer cultist henchmen.

Vizunah Square was a complete shock at first until I figured out that using my axe build and AOE'ing everything to death at once = bad, then that got a lot less difficult. The constellation killing mission wasn't too bad, but the next one...

I've been working on the tahnnaki temple mission since oh...3 days ago, and I just cant seem to beat it. I figured out I was overpulling so I got a long bow and have been pulling at range, but now I find that Mhenlo the healer seems to enjoy being Mhenlo the "whats that you want to fight everyone at once while I stand around getting nuked by these temple guardians? OK!" followed by Mhenlo the dead a whole lot more.

Is there any way to get Mhenlo and Togo to just stay the hell out of the way so I can more effectively pull individual mobs? As it stands, I shoot mobs with my bow, and then as I run back mhenlo and togo just sit there and go back and forth with the mob I am trying to pull. More often than not, Mhenlo then finds it a good idea to run into a second group of mobs, and the next thing I know he pulls the entire room and dies. I can't rush my group in to try and take them, because the temple guardians + afflicted + boss hit too hard to heal through at once.

at first I was thinking it might've been my build, but if it's my build, then why am I not struggling as much with prophecies or nightfall? O_o

Thanks all.

I can't give a definitive answer, but I can say Faction's particularity is the cheer number of mobs. It's the worst chapter in that regard, crowd control (and agro) is the killer there.

EDIT : I can say that if you are hero/henching, another player should make it alot easier in managing the NPCs.

This is your problem right there. With 4 monks, you aren't doing anywhere near enough damage to enemies.

If you're playing in normal mode, the henchmen monks will be enough for you. Switch your two hero monks to a Necromancer running a minion master build and an elementalist and you'll start seeing better results.

You can even swap out Mox with another elementalist.

yeah; not enough damage mate. I found factions impossible my first round, but second time it was so much easier--just take some time getting adjusted to the game again, and it reallyreallyreally helps to have a good Guild you can rely on, instead of always henchman/pugs.

Well, first off, no, factions isn't impossible. In fact, I consider it the easiest of the 3 campaigns personally. Next, I think you should maybe try listing you and your heroes builds and armor/runes if any. Secondly, if your monk heroes are heal/prot monks, then you have a bit too many healers in your party at 4 healers. Also, if you have been using the same henchies, then maybe try a different h/h setup.

Personally, I always take the earth ele as they provide good offense and defense for a hench due to their ward. Another melee character can also be useful to soak up damage like devona, but having Su, the grave henchmen, also works for soaking up damage due to her minion skills. In terms, of offense, I think generally most henchies lack good offensive powers, especially ranger henchies for some reason, but if it works for you then bring it. However, I would at least consider replacing it for either of the rt heroes for their spirits and defensive capabilities, and replace one of your monk heroes for a more offensively inclined hero.

If after reading this and you are still stuck on that mission then I wouldn't mind helping you when I'm not busy if you pm me.

Welcome back to GW!

Tips from wiki:

- AoE skills work well here since there are plenty of clumped-together enemies.
- Since there is a boss to be killed about every 3 minutes, hard resurrection skills are mostly unneeded and can be replaced by Resurrection Signets or Sunspear Rebirth Signets.
- Taking a minion master is highly advised since there are plenty of corpses and the minions form a valuable meat shield to absorb the Afflicted Soul Explosion.

So get Olias the necromancer hero!

And i also think that 4 healers is way to much. The best defense is offense!

Henchman that i suggest:

Chiyo, Professor Gai, one of the healers and either Su (MM) or Cynn (Fire)

You could take whatever you want, mox with some newly buffed dervish skills, a healer or smiter and Olias!

Good luck!

Are you flagging the group down while you pull? That should keep Mhenlo the Dingus out of harm's way! Unflag the party when the enemies close in. Don't see much interrupt in your party.

Nor do I see a Minion Master ... me being lazy.

What I would really suggest? Complete Nightfall. Pick up Master of Whispers either during Nightfall or as one of the quests after you finish it. Read on Wiki how to get the Olias quest. Livia is the third Necromancer and you can get her during the Eye of the North campaign. Then come back to Factions.

Hard though it may be to believe, with three properly set up Necro heroes you can do most of the missions with just yourself and the heroes. I would not recommend that, being the lazy sort myself.

Here is the primary thread on the Sabway build that was designed by Sab himself!

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/3...ghlight=sabway

I run a variant of it. There are other hero sets, but this one is easy to start with since it requires no micro.

Short term ... look up Olias on the wiki and go do the quest. Not hard. Set up a minion bomber or minion master build. Everything will become much easier.

The two hench healers can replace Livia as N/Rit healer for the short term.

MoX is good. Study some of the dervish hero builds on this forum for some fresh ideas. Since the patch, they really work well at both healing and dealing out damage.

Necroway is bad ._. Lrn2balancedteam'

To turn this into a constructive post....

UA monk > N/RT healer
Rt/N MM > Nec MM
Panic > SS

Thanks for playing.

Sadly, it won't. Allies being escorted in missions do not obey the flag. They follow whichever player character is moving. With two people, you can try having one move away from the foes while everyone else stands still to lure Mhenlo and Togo out of the way, then have your partner move forward to pull. But this usually isn't necessary if the pulling is done at max distance while standing not too far in front of the rest of the team.

Too much healing and not enough damage.

I hero/henched the entire game and have a protector of the whole damn world title to show for it.

Limit yourself to two healers. If you need extra protection, take a warder since they can also do damage. Use up the rest on necro, elementalist and maybe a sword warrior to hold the front with you.

Or if you are lazy, just run spiritway and consider the game beat.

If you need more then 2 healers in anything short of an elite area, you are doing something very wrong. If you are good, you shouldn't need anything more than 2 henchmen healers.

Ideally, you want to kill things fast while having good party-wide protection to limit the damage. The easiest addition is a Minion Master necro, whose minions draw away a ton of damage and put out good damage of their own. For this just have 16 death magic (death rune on head) + 2 or 3 minion summoning spells + blood of the master to heal them.

That alone should be enough to hold you through NM. For a bit more:

Rits with high channeling and Signet of Spirits, Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage, and Siphon spirit make for an excellent addition to your build, since Splinter Weapon on physical characters turns into AoE rape. The rest of the slots can be used for restoration to provide backup healing or for something else. I particularly like to go /Mo for Strength of Honor as yet another melee buff.

Mesmers with one of the following elites rock: Panic, Psychic Instability, Keystone signet. I won't describe how to make a build with all of them here since it would be long, but you can check up on PvE wiki for a decent start to those.

As far as I'm concerned all monk heroes should be running Healing Burst. Everyone who says otherwise is wrong. Don't put more than 1 other heal on their bar or they won't use healing burst enough, instead fill their bar up with energy management or cheap/effective prots. Healing Burst is just too damn efficient to suffer anything less on a hero.

Overall, melee hero AI is pretty meh so they can't do too well compared to their caster counterparts. Ranger/Paragon heroes also don't have a ton to work with since they are pretty underpowered for PvE. Caster heroes are just better performers for the most part.

lolno

surprisingly i have to agree with kunder and lmao at this

back to the OP

to sum it up:
get Olias, you need a MM for damage mitigation
2 henchman healers max, tho i normally only need 1
other 2 henchmen should be earth and possibly the spirit guy if you dont have a SoS rit hero

My advice:

1) Two monks, max. bring in some more damage.

2) Lots of mobs so lots of bodies for Minion master. Use that to your advantage.

3) My h/h consist mostly of 2 monks, 2 necros, 1 warrior, 1 ranger and M.O.X (sometimes he may get in the way or run up front while I pull. if that happens, I change him to a warrior or a caster. This combo usually works well for me.

4) Use long bow for pulling. You could be going too close. Although the two fellows will continue to stay there when you run back, usually they will not run up.

5) In some rooms in the tahnnaki temple mission, the mobs may aggro all at once. In this case, let your h/h take the first wave of attack before running out to the mob. The two will follow you so you will get to at least take them out of harm's way before you engage the mob. Do a bit of trail and error work and see how to flag the H/H so they take some hits while you stay put with the two before running in.

Good luck.

What everyone else said, put more damage into your team.

Also, if you use only heroes/ henchmen, Mhenlo and Togo will be following you. Try to let a hero pull, flag the hero forward and backward again to aggro some mobs. Keep in the backline, the NPCs will stay with you. Try to set up a bar for ranged damage for yourself, maybe use ranger skills like barrage, with a rit hero to put splinter weapon on you.

For Tahnnakai Temple, the mobs will automatically rush at you when you step over certain spots. If you know where those are, you can trigger that spot, then run back to where your party may be flagged. For each of the rooms, this is what I do if I'm with just H/H:
1) Spread out and pull. No real tactics needed.
2) Flag on top of stairs. Pull boss only, then proceed left, ignoring anything on right.
3) Reach the first T intersection, then step back. The Warriors and Necros will rush you. Clear them, then go for the Monk and boss.
4) Flag behind the corner, then pull.
5) Don't pass the stairs. Everything will rush at you when you get close to the stairs. After killing the boss, kill both mobs guarding the left and right gates. Enter the next room via the left gate.
6) Flag on top of stairs. Run forward to the corner, then run back. All Afflicted will rush at you. Use the corner to make them miss attacks.
7) Flag on top of stairs. Run forward to pull Guardian, then run back. Everything will rush at you. Kill a Spirit of Restoration if you see one.
8) Kill all roaming Afflicted Rangers first. Then pull mobs over the bridge.

I also found Factions the easiest chapter to deal with and the fastest to advance through. It's true that its main characteristic is ungodly amounts of mobs, but they can be managed with the right approach.

I've done Vizunah Square on my second try. The first failed because I didn't pay enough attention to Mhenlo and he got isolated on a side and killed. The second time I kept an eye on him and Togo, made sure I was always there to clear the mobs around them, and generally let the other henchies do their thing (no heroes!) It worked perfectly well.

The wiki will offer a perfectly good default list of henchies to consider. I replaced Panaku with myself (W/A) and that's about it.

In restrospect, the MM benefits extremely well from the large amount of corpses and Gai's spirits as well as AoE damage from everybody help a lot. Regarding healers, you probably forgot to count Mhenlo (healer) and Togo (spirit resto). Usually them and Sister Tai + Jamei are more than enough. You can even get rid of one of Tai/Jamei (depending on which team you're in) and add an extra damage dealer.

My build was not particularly remarcable, barely averages 35 DPS and tops around 50 (as later tested against Master of Damage on Isle of the Nameless), has no AoE and a single DoT. But it worked.

Basically, keeping Mhenlo and Togo safe and preventing them from getting overwhelmed is the main thing you have to worry about. The second thing is calling targets and/or flagging henchies, to help focus their attacks on the side that needs it at the moment. The way the main battles occur in Vizunah, your teams take the center with mobs pouring in regularly from all sides. You have to regroup at the center periodically and avoid over-extending. But the henchies work together well enough that you can focus on macro and only micro around Togo/Mhenlo. You can even get away without any flagging, only calling targets.

Mhenlo can be unreasonable sometimes (running ahead) but in Vizunah he behaved well. He allowed the team short breaks and when he moved it usually meant it was time to move. I did not find his actions unreasonable.

Whoa, people actually respond to posts fairly quickly here. o.o;

Thanks a lot for all the tips. As far as the 4 healers/4 damage setup, I found that to be ideal whenever I screwed up and pulled too many mobs (ie, the entire room + the boss), normally otherwise I only have 2 healers.

I finally got past it last night (thanks for the offers of help w/ the missions though!), by again being ultra careful in who I pull with a flatbow. Almost wiped on the second to last boss when mhenlo ended up pulling the entire room sans the guardians, but the boss there didn't join in thank god.

I tried (earlier) using olias with an MM build in there, but since he wasn't even fully levelled he kept dieing too quickly (though he is now at 20 ). I've found in terms of messing with the AI, making one or two of my hero's a Necro subclass with an animate skill usually gave a good enough distraction against them, even if the minions dont actually contribute in any other useful way.

Thanks for the help though. Lots of info in this thread to look through for future reference.

Glad you got what you were looking for, if you have anymore general Q's like this feel free to hit me up in game =).

Skeletor Roarer.

In Kaineng, having a good Interrupt mesmer hero can be very usefull to.
So, give Gwen a good interrupt build i would say.

Though 4 Healers is imo indeed to much, u may find that only 2 may be to little at times.
I usually use 3 healers.

Not bad advice, although 3 dedicated healers is way too much. Hybridizing is one of my favorite things in the entire game. A Panic/Resto Me/Rt is a fantastic thing for some control, damage, and support, as is an SoS/Resto or SoS/Smite Rt/Mo. You'll learn that the best hero builds usually aren't 4 heals and energy management or 5 AoE spells and energy management. The best ones are usually some form of damage combined with some form of support.

The best examples are the N/Mo Minion Bomber with Prot, the Me/Rt and Rt/Mo listed above, and a handful of others. This is the backbone of pretty much all "meta" hero builds.

For an experienced player, 1 dedicated healer and a hybrid or two should breeze through most everything. If you feel like you're needing more heals (and your fights aren't terribly long -- remember healers can't heal all day), I'd say a Monk henchman and up to 3 hybrid heroes (depending on their builds and the area you're in).

Also, YOUR build is very important. As a physical, you should be the primary source of damage for your team.

Yep. I keep posting this. The biggest mistake people make in normal mode play is relying on massively defensive setups that end up with fights drawn out over several spell cycles. Most mobs should be cleared in about 30 seconds. The longer you draw out the fight the more likely you are going to get a second round of nasty AoE elementalist or Ray of Judgment (from Afflicted Monks) thrown your way. Also longer fights mean your healers are more likely to run out of energy and people will start dying. I too usually never take more than the two henchman healers (I admittedly play normal mode most of the time).

You don't need that many healers. I usually run with one plus an ele or necro with a few prot skills, which is fine for most NM content. If you kill faster, you won't need the heals.

I only run one healer hench (Professor Gai I believe) in HM and I don't run gimmicky discord healers or N/Rt healers. If you need 4 healers it means you aren't killing anywhere close to fast (<10sec). If you're a warrior, bring Deep wound for starters. That's a good 100 damage right there.

If you're W/R, you aren't using a pet instead of speccing 12+ in weapon right?

12+1+1 strength (sentinel's insignia), 12+1 hammer with earthshaker + crude swing + Crushing blow for starters, "Save Yourselves!", Whirlwind attack, Yeti smash
12+1+1 axe, 12+1 strength with Warrior's endurance axe , burst of aggression, dismember, "Save Yourselves!", Whirlwind attack
12+1+1 axe, 12+1 strength with Eviscerate + Body Blow/Executioner's strike or dismember+Body blow/executioner's strike, "Save Yourselves!", Whirlwind attack
12+1+1 sword, 12+1 strength with Dragonslash, For Great Justice!, Enraging charge, "Save Yourselves!", Whirlwind attack

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...t10326347.html

You can get Whirlwind attack from Sunspear great hall and Save Yourselves from Luxon Scavenger/Kurzick Bureaucrat in Guildhall, House Zu Heltzer or Cavalon.

Until you get out of Kaineng's exploding mobs, try killing things one at a time (preferably with deep wound) because multi-kills will spike you out due to afflicted soul explosion.

Ultimately it's not you, the factions hench monks are crap so if you aoe a mob, you will die as a melee. Jamei (Healing Breeze and Jamei's Gaze are 10 energy) is better than Sister Tai though, since Sister Tai has Blessed Light (Healing Breeze and Jamei's Gaze also) with no energy management, so half her bar is useless.

It's unintuitive but you do better with Professor Gai as a healer. Attuned Was Songkai makes him 100% better than the 2 monk henches. Spirit Light, Weapon of warding, and Shelter are good too. If you bring Aeson, then you have Shelter and 2 copies of union (Aeson has union) which is 200x better than having 10 energy 3 recharge spam heals.