Make +10 armor vs species an inscription

I am sure this has been talked about before but I could not find an active thread, or any thread for that matter, on the subject. If the subject has had threads before and been discussed thoroughly then mods please close this thread.

Now that that's out of the way I believe it to be about time to make inscriptions that give +10 armor vs a specific creature types. They would not need to be implemented in the pvp equipment creation panel and would help players acquire +10 armor vs creature type shields without spending a mountain of gold(ex. +10 armor vs demons for DoA).'

EDIT: It seems I could have been more clearer. The idea is to just take the existing +10 armor vs creature types and make them drop in NF and EoTN as inscriptions.

EDIT 2: Would also like to see the +15%/-1 health/energy regen damage modifiers put in as well.

problem is there are alot of creature species, just to name afew:

- Plants
- Demons
- Humans ? (Kournans, Corsairs)
- Bugs
- Harpys

and more...

I would support it, but doesn't seem feasible

/notsigned

ever since they allowed inscriptions all everyone wants is even more inscriptions

If you need a +10 armor vs demons for DoA, you should have a mountain of gold. Or just do without it.
Futile adding unnecessary things to the game while there are crucial things to work on is a bad idea.

/notsigned

just make 10 vs human

but make it req 3 divine favor though

If you're doing DoA 10 armor isn't going to make a huge difference, with SY!/ST + Mantra up.

if they made +10 vs humans... people would use them in pvp

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're all missing the OP's point. The +armor vs species thing he's talking about is the shield equivalent of the "of slaying" mods.

[[http://www.guildwiki.org/Weapon_modifier#Species]]

"There are "Armor +4-10 vs <species>" modifiers available for Charr, Demons, Dragons, Dwarves, Giants, Ogres, Plants, Skeletons, Tengu, Trolls, and Undead. Every "Armor +4-10 vs <species>" has a corresponding species slaying upgrade."

Basically, nearly everything that is available as an inherent modifier is available as an inscription, with four exceptions: the +15% -1hp, +15% -1eregen, condition reduction on staves, and the +armor vs species.

It would work the same was as the existing +armor vs damage type, except substituting the species list that is already programmed in place.

Basically, the system is already in place, the list of species is already there, and it is quite a feasible and simple idea. I personally would kind of like this to happen

That being said, it's definitely not high on my list of things to ask for.

Hope that clears things up!

/signed

In all likelihood, the prices of "old school" items would be unaffected whilst newer/poorer players would have access to the same level of gear (that is one of the principles of Guild Wars after all).

Or just buy one of the greens thats +10 vs demons also, it would be nice if they would add 20%vs mods for scythes,spears and daggers

Hell yes! Because we need even less chances to get perfect "forget me not" inscriptions...
plus AR vs humans would be totaly broken for PvP.

/not signed

rather than keep whinging that you can't afford those shields, go take a look at the green DoA shields. They're 2-3k each.





Profit.
Seriously if you need a shield like that in DoA it means you're most likely tanking, which implies you have done DoA quite a few times, therefore 30-40e shouldn't represent a mountain of cash for you.

OP specified that it would only be mods which already exist in-game. Obviously +10 vs humans would be stupid, that's why no no suggests it.

How's it broken? I am just too lazy to switch shield (and make it req 3 divine favor too)

You're wondering why's it broken? +10 vs type is only for that type. +10 vs human would be as if you had all of them (slashing/piercing/blunt/cold/fire/lightning/earth) at the same time.

Given that in PvP unless it's a homogenous Invoke spike team with no physicals or water eles (highly unlikely), you're going to be taking extra damage from half the team (Rangers, Warriors).

If you're being trained by melee and get hit with Crip shot/Burning arrow + Invoke lightning or Shard storm for example, that's when it starts being different.

Hell, even a Standard Shock axe/Dev hammer + cripslash conjure warrior frontline has 2 damage types, before counting Cripshot and eles.

if its a spike its not gonna help much. Overtime, it does. Now if they train you all the time, the +10 armor is the least of the other team's problem.

It just requires too much attention that I am not willing to spend

And ye. I only watch their melees to determine which shield to use. So +10 vs human makes it much less a hassle for me. Heck, top 20 monks can be seen being trained with 40/40 set on. What difference could this make?

It will help. +10 is 0.8409x damage vs physicals, piercing, cold. It doesn't matter if it's cracked armor or critical hits, since those reduce by a fixed 20 armor each (1.41x damage).

For invoke:
Invoke does 130 on 80 armor with cracked armor (119-120 on non monks since 60+10+8+10 vs type from shield is 88 with tormentor/blessed). It does 100 on 100 armor monks with cracked armor (60+ 15 disciple's + 15/7 shield + 10 vs type) vs 113 without that typed bonus.

Of course it helps, but my point is if you switch shields (and between staff and shield sets) often, it would just help you with the busy work and would not break the game! If you dont, this change wouldn't even matter.

I do not like this idea. This is one of the last remaining items in game that is still somewhat hard to acquire in an uninscribable version. The damage armor +10 mods should suffice, if they do not for some reason, either get greens or get uninsc shields.

notsigned
ruin my fun of collecting demon shields (and dont say its for profit cuze i dont plan on selling any of them anytime soon)
if u want +10vs demon get the green. if u want +10 vs other creatures, they arent even that expensive. they are like 30-40e tops unless u go for the really rare/nice skins/ or mods(reqs)

on a side note, cheap gold demon shields are not so cheap anymore so unless u find a newb u wont find anything below 100e(talking about +30hp/+45hp^ench/ and -2^ench)

Kurosaki is excused since I edited my OP after they posted but that should have cleared it up. I never gave an notion they should create +10 vs humans. Doing so would not be good for pvp at all so please drop it.


Yes I totally agree. We need more minipets


Even with SY/ST and mantra ppl still pay hundreds of ectos for +10 Demon shields not just because they are collectible but because every point of armor and health in the end adds up to something greater and makes life easier. Many things can happen like the imba lagging and if something like that happens then the +10 armor vs demons shield you spent 250e on just got more shinny.



You are obviously mistaken. This is not a QQ thread, this is an ideas thread. Old school shield prices will not be affected at all if not very little. The green DoA shields do not give the same armor value when not meeting the req as gold shields and the +30 hp mods are fixed. Casual players should have access to the same level of gear that the people with a "mountain of gold" have. I dont know where you get your numbers but 30-40e? lol

Why should it be hard to acquire? The +10 armor vs dmg hardly suffices since in most scenarios you will be facing multiple damage types like Slaver's Exile but a +10 vs dwarves makes you much better off.


Don't keep them out of the hands of casual players just because you want to make a profit. Also in no way will it affect your non insc shield prices or their rarity.

Ah yes, I forgot that the whole ethos of Guild Wars is that only rich players should have the best gear. Thanks for reminding me.

/notsigned for above reason, among others

i think i clearly stated i didnt want to make any profit from it. u probably dont know me or my intention when i made that thread so plz dont judge me

and lol it wont affect the price of non insc shields? why would anyone want to buy uninsc shields when they can just as easily get the insc version. u think ppl will pay 400e for that celestial shield if they can get it in an insc version?

as u clearly stated, they are casual players. they might want fancy bling and even if they had the to pay for them they wont cuze they dont need it. they can just go for the green. this demon shield rush is really recent and maybe half a month ago that celestial shield wouldnt have been worth more than 250e tops

Casual players will never need a ve demon shield. It's for DoA farmers, mainly tanks, who should be able to afford high prices of those shields, thus keeping their market value so high. If no one bought those shields for 400e, no one would be able to sell them so high and the price would drop.
If you farm DoA all along and can't afford that shield you think you need so badly, something is wrong - either the shield is redundant or you're not good enough at farming DoA.

The other side is collectors - powertraders and/or hardcore farmers who like shiny, rare stuff just for the sake of having it in their storage. They usually trade amongst themselves, influencing the market value much less than DoA farmers.

I don't think any other vs species are that commonly used or needed for any specific runs. It's usually the collectors who want them and they prefer rare, non-inscribable versions.

Higly salvageable, Improved sale value and all +vs race should have been inherent values fixed to the weapon, that do not take upgrade slots.

They are PvE-only properties, and as such, there is no need to keep them quick to mod, unlike the rest of the properties that affect PvP.

So if they ever update the outmoded drop system to the standard, they could perfectly live the PvE properties just as random additional inherent properties that add rarity to the weapon.

Ok, we need to get off the topic of +10 vs demons, because that is really irrelevant to the suggestion as a whole. We're not discussing whether +10 vs demons is required in DoA or what people would be using it for.

These should be added as inscriptions mainly because they should have been inscriptions from the start. As I said before, there are only four examples of mods that are only present on inherents. So
is an entirely invalid point. Nearly everything is available as an inscription.

The point of having this as an inscription is that so casual players can get the same FUNCTIONALITY that rich players enjoy. It is simply against the point of Guild Wars to deny poorer players certain functionalities that are available only to rich players. That's why common armor has the exact same functionality as elite armor: it's just that the elite armor has prestige, which is irrelevant to gameplay, just as the oldschool items have prestige but don't affect gameplay.

Also, the reason "oldschool" items go for so much has absolutely nothing to do with their usefulness (with the exception of +15% always and those old dual-mod shields which don't drop anymore and can't be replicated).

The reason they go for so much is because they are rare and hard to find as inherents. So yeah, maybe oldschool +10 vs demon shields will drop a bit (but not much, because they're still rare as hell) because they're in such high demand, but that's irrelevant, because that's a special case. People may want +10 vs species for other reasons, and it is ridiculous to deny casual players the same functionality that only extraordinarily rich players can afford right now.

This is absurd, because it's not about these being essential to a farming build, it's about opening up options to casual players that they are currently prevented from playing with. And for many players, dozens of ectos is an unimaginable number.


TL;DR: stop talking about DoA and +demons/humans, and focus on the larger picture. This is about making a certain simple functionality available to the entire playerbase just as everything else is.

ok u want to discuss how to make these inherent affordable to the poorer players? well the usual +10vs creature are not that expensive. 25-40e depending on the req and skin. the only one that are ridiculously expensive are the +10vs demon and u can get those as green for less than 10k. just like armor the "better" skin cost more i.e. obi armor/vabian. u want cool shiny bling u have to be willing to chip a bit more money.

casual player need +10vs trolls? what? they need +10 vs ogre? dragons? those creatures arent so wide spread that casual players should even care for the extra bonus. ur a casual fowscer whos trying to learn t1 and ur slivering skeles? well just use the +10vs slashing. they dont do enough dmg that u need a +10 vs undead.

the only reason why we keep coming back to the +10vs demon is cuze they are the most expensive +10vs creature and doa contain some of the hardest hitting creatures in game.

and back to the doa subject, if u are doing dwg frostway, well the -2^ench or the +45hp^ench isnt gonna help u much cuze doa strip ench like there is no tmrw. +30hp can be obtained with the green. -2^stance are cheap and if u do doa frostway u should be able to afford one.

so do we need +10vs creature insc? no

Believe it or not, the majority of the player in Guild Wars don't have close to this amount of cash, and never will. Powertraders are such an isolated community they all appear to think everyone is sat with at least one stack of ectos in their storage.

Invalid, Obsidian/Vabbian are no better than other armour skins, a +10vDemons/-2wE shield is functionally better than every other shield and isn't available as a green. We're not arguing skins here, we're arguing mods.

The entire point of the inscriptions system is to allow newer/poorer players access to equipment with the same stats as the older/richer players. Leaving out mods which are available as inherents makes no sense.

well u cant even get +10 vs slashing -2^ench mods on insc shields anyways.... so now u want to change the entire mod system too???

ok u tell me 90% of guild wars community wants to walk in 1k armor? also +10 vs creature -2^ench is not better than any other mod combo in guild wars. the usefulness of mods varies entirely on what u do. if u read my post earlier, u would know that a -2^ench will not benefit dwgs. it would be a much wiser investment if they bought a -2^stance. or a +30hp if their team wipe and they need the extra hp when they are running away....

the point im trying to make by comparing armor and shield is that ppl just want easy access to nice skin with +10vs creature. well just like 1k armor u can get a green demon shield for 3k. dont tell me ppl need +10 vs trolls or +10 vs dragons cuze no one farms or encounter those creature enough to even care.

idk why ppl are started to complain about the mod system now just when the +10vs demon mod market picked up. this mod system has always function this way for years. everyone was fine with their +10vs slashing mods or -5^20% shields. if u ask me they just saw that a lot of ppl looking for +10vs demon -2^ench and think its actually help them stay alive longer or just want to imitate richer players. for the longest time doa tanks used greens and could care less about uninsc shields this is only a recent burst and the only reason why they gone up so much is cuze 1) someone is hogging them all 2) a lot of the older collectors quit 3) ppl dont want to sell

Sure, but that's not what this thread is about. Let's try to stay on topic.

ok so what is this topic about? the op wants to make it available to all gw players. im just stating that its pointless cuze u dont need +10vs trolls ogres dragons dwarves plants tengu undead giants charr or skeles? 90% of these creatures can hardly be found in gw so why would you need them

secondly he wants to make is cheaper for all gw players. well why would u need that? you dont even need them 90% of the time. the only place where +10vs creature really makes a difference is doa and maybe slavers but +10vs dwarves havent risen in price and there arent too many ppl who do the entire dungeon anymore, just vsf now. so tell me one me one area beside those 2 where gw players need +10vs creatures.

You don't need it so you can't have it is not a good argument. Guild Wars is supposed to be Skill>Gear/Time, making any gear out of reach of the casual player is completely at odds with this ethic.

Really isn't needed. Casual players don't swap shields in pve or pvp. They sure as hell aren't going to get a +10vs x shield, they only go after the -5/20 and very, very, rarely a -2 en/st. If you're a more informed/better player, then chances are you're doing hm etc regularly and can easily afford one of these +10vs/plants/dragons w/e despite the fact they're a waste of money (imo) and complete extravagance.

A +10vs demon/-2en isn't going to make a whole lot of difference. It isn't an instant win item for tanks. Tank "skill" is still the main factor here and you'll do just fine with +30/+10vs demon. Not only that, but doascers are such a small % of the population that it really isn't worth the effort when there are more important things for anet to resolve.

Am I asking for more inscriptions? Yes and No. I am asking ANet to fill in the weapon and shield mods they did not put in as inscriptions. It is silly they put in the "Improved Sale Value" inscription and not +15/-1 health/energy regen and +10 vs creature shields. I updated my OP to include the missing damage modifiers as well.

You should not say things such as "I dont plan on selling them anytime soon" when you have a thread open to sell one. It just looks bad.

Non inscription dual mod +10 vs Demon shields are rare as balls especially if they are perfect. People will still pay 400e for a shield like that celestial even if there is a way to copy it exactly with an inscription. Why? because the old school is far rarer and gives bragging rights that you have acquired an item many few have if not any. Not to mention if ANet decided to do this you could just post it on this site in the sell forum and make hundreds of ectos because there are far more collectors than you seem to think.


People should not have to settle with a green that has fixed mods.

Undead are not just in FoW. Shards of Orr, Most of Kryta explorable areas/missions and The Desolation of NF say hi. Half of the +10 vs creature types are useless but thats no reason to not to make them all inscriptions since half of them can be useful. I acually would like to see the less popular ones changed to other species(ex. Titans) but does not seem as feasible as taking the ones already existing and making them inscriptions.

Exactly why they should make them inscriptions.

People settle for the -2 in stance/ench because they are less expensive than ones with +45 health, if they had the money they would go for the +45 health. I would prefer health over the -2 since mobs choose their targets based on armor and health.

Irrelevant. Do ppl need Guild Wars? No, but they play it bc it is fun. Did they need to buff the dervish? No, I have seen ppl who played the dervish before the update in pve/pvp and they made all the other classes look like complete shit.

No. The mod system does not need to be changed at all. The +10 vs creature types could fit in to the current mod system just fine. The reason Anet made the mod system for NF and EoTN the way it is is because if players were allowed to have 2 inscriptions then having focus cores and shield handles would be completely pointless. Anet wanted players to have to choose between a health modifier and a damage reducer. In fact the +10 vs demons/-2 shields would still be only on old school shields since they would not fit into the inscription system. Conundrums like these in video games are incredibly difficult to solve as the game progresses.

All 3 are good enough reasons to make them inscriptions.

Undead could certainly be useful in many areas of the game. SoO and The Desolation are just 2 areas to name. Also +10 vs plants can be very beneficial against the thorn wolves that deal massive damage in Urgoz's Warren along with many other plants and Urgoz himself. These are just off the top of my head.

You are totally underestimating a lot of the player populace in GWs. People in this game are mostly on their own in finding out what skills/builds are good and what are the best mods. For the first few years of GWs ppl across pvp and pve thought health > armor. Its only been the last year or two many of them now realize armor > health.

One thing is never an instant win in this game and never should be and tanks are not the only ones sporting shields nowadays. This would be so incredibly easy for ANet to. The system is in place with the creature types, all they need to do is apply them as inscriptions. Not to mention having a healing offhand with +10 vs demons would be quite useful.

EDIT: I have corrected my post to display the correct info. Not sorry though as I cannot know everything.

@ yawgmoth
I think you need to calm down. The whole ethos of gws is everyone should have the same gear level available to them like hobbs said and insc shields are still far better than greens since they can be modded with w/e the player wants. Its the whole reason they made inscriptions.

The only thing you should have to hunt for in this game is skin, not function.
Theres a reason a holy staff has the same stats as a BDS and droks armor is same AL as obsidian. If you dont like it go play WoW.

Im very grateful the designers do not think like you.

What a terrible suggestion. So bad. So much WRONG WAY.

The way to go is EXACTLY OPPOSITE from this 'suggestion' - there should be even MORE functional variety among PvE items, more NEW stuff to hunt for and collect. Especially in this very late stage of the game.

This suggestion is so much WRONG WAY exactly because it practically REDUCES the number of valuable worthwhile potential drops in the game. It makes that EVERY crappy common inscribable shield able to get even more functionalities, and insta-perfect. It's just terrible game design as it eliminates the need to look for anything else. The mistake was made once and it shouldn't be repeated.

And complaints about prices are also just that, QQ'ing.
High prices just clearly show that players don't farm/chestrun enough in Proph/Factions. It's their mistake.

Also this:

is COMPLETELY WRONG.
Stop spreading BS.
Learn the game mechanics before posting.
Max green shields (including obviously the DoA greens) that you don't meet the req of will always give you base 8 armor just like any gold shields. It's also easy to test.

Actually, you are wrong.
Green shields and other items that are not randomly generated (like from collectors or crafters) with give you 5 armor if you don't meet the requirements.
Foci will give you only 3.

Only drops with randomly generated stats will give you 8 armor and 6 energy.

You can try it ANYTIME with a green foci. You'll see you get just 3 energy, excepting with the ones linked to multiple attributes, which directly give 6 energy plus another 6 energy if you meet one of the requirements, but those work differently.

Now, functionality is more important than rarity. Because of that, inscriptions should be worldwide.
Although it will probably never happen, there should be weapon upgrade traders, like there are runes traders, they should be in all PvP outposts like rune traders are, all weapons should be upgraded to the new standard like armors were, and properties currently not found as weapon upgrades that can be found as inherent in drops should be added to the list of upgrades available in the item creation panel and in drops in the current standard drop system...

...with the exception of PvE-only properties.
Why?
Because you'll never, ever need them for PvP, and PvP is what needs the quickest changes in your gear.
So what if they make a run, SC, farming or certain area easier?
Highly salvageable, increased sale value and the vs race mods are useless in any PvP mode, they re only useful in PvE to get more materials, more gold or slightly more effectiveness against certain monsters.
You never need that in a PvP fight.

If any property can stay inherent and attached to the weapon, that property is a PvE one.

Wow. Where you got that from? You haven't played the game for 5 years?
Green and other 'fixed' (not randomly generated) shields USED to work that way in the first year but they got updated:

It's also very easy to test in game.

While foci weren't updated the same way so most give just +3 energy, most of new ones added after that update will actually give +6.

You got a pretty ridiculous vision of the game. Usage in PvP is not a reason to mess with PvE items, they are NOT NEEDED for PvP, players just use them for vanity (not talking about low req shields here as it's a different topic).

I have the money to buy a +10 Vs Demons dualmod but have no need to, I don't DoA. I have no stake in this, I wouldn't profit from the system changing or staying the same. Objectively it makes sense to have consistency across the system. It's not QQ, it's reasonable.

An item being usable in PvP is reason enough to make it follow PvP rules.

PvE-only properties can be inherent and fixed, since PvE has a slower pace than PvP (yes, even if GW's PvE pace is quite fast, its access to PvP is still way faster).
You can do other things while you get that item you want to make that run or farm or whatever it is, and you can perfectly work with non-maxed items.
That can take time.
But for PvP it should be instant.
Unlike PvE, which has much less balance between the fighting sides (if any), PvP has some sort of balance, so every single number counts.
Using 40/40 wand-focus combo is actually quire different than going around with +20 +30 HP staff. Using a Zealous mod is very different than using a vampiric.
Collectors and crafters won't have the mods, there is no trader, and you can't expect everyone to use only PvP characters, or wait for someone to sell the mods, much less to wait for them to drop , and much less in the outmoded system. A 40/40 without farming could take over 10 years if you consider that people have been playing 5 years without non a single one dropping for them EVER in Prophecies and Factions. And no one is supposed to farm no mater what you think.

Items should have had actual extra PvE-only properties that are inherent, fixed to the weapon. For example: 0 in commons, 1 in uncommons, 2 in rares, and actual 1..3 unique properties in uniques, but also always having the PvP slots fully moddable (even the uniques, like with Keiran's Rotwing Bow). Even if they never get used in PvP.
And while the PvE properties would be variable, the PvP ones would be fixed like runes, and dropping at different rarities only (some already do), and with a trader to get them faster when needed, and of course, with more possible combinations, since the current mods unlockable in the priest of Balthazar are quire limited compared with some combinations of drops found in the outmoded system.
That way the PvE part gets its rarity and random drops that are all different like snowflakes, while the PvP part gets its speed and moddability.
But they were not like that, and they will probably never will.

But even if that can't change now, and even if it never changes, that doesn't mean it shouldn't change, and any change towards that is better than how it's now, having two fifths of the game outmoded, and a minority clinging to that as if that was really good.

Nightfall and EotN style of drops are the standard now.

Prophecies and Factions had the outmoded system because they had so little skins, that if they had a fully moddable system, there would be absolutely no rarity. You would get the same long sword again and again, which would be pretty boring.
The outmoded system make it so when you get the same long sword again and again, most of them were merchant fodder, so the few usable ones became rare. Which is also boring, but just a bit less boring.

But with much more skins, that was no longer necessary.
With the new system, while playing normally, instead getting 999 merchant fodder items and one maxed every 1000 drops, you get just 200 maxed and 800 merchant fodder, but, of course, getting the skin you want is a different thing, and actually harder.
Because instead the same long sword, wooden longbow and foehammer, you could also get more kinds of weapons, and each of them with much more different possible skins.
Fortunately, with the current standard, if you are lucky enough to get the skin you were loking for, it has a higher chance of being maxed... but it's still a chance, not a certainty.

Unlike games like Diablo, with few different weapon models and appearances that count less than the stats, in GW appearance counts more than stats.
That's why a voltaic spear costs more than a suntouched spear with the same stats.
What people is looking for is the skin, not the base stats. They stats can be acquired from collectors, and don't you dare expect anyone to stick with those skins if they don't want to farm. Because, again, no one is supposed to farm.

And that's why the new standard is better... as long as there are enough different skins.


Now, going back to the vs race mods.
Those are PvE.
And they usefulness is greatly limited to a few places where those enemies are, so getting them is usually meant for farming and runs people will do over quite so time in there.
As I said before, while preparation for PvP should be as fast as possible, preparation for PvE can be slower than for PvP.
That's why having them as mods is not really necessary, they could perfectly be extra PvE-only inherent mods that may randomly come attached to items, without using up the mod slots, and that would be fine, and those rarity freaks would probably love it, and if anyone complains, well... just tell them they are PvE properties, and no one needs to get them fast.

So, although I will always defend updating all drops to the new standard, when it comes to PvE-only properties like the vs race, salvageable and improved value, well, they are the exception.
They can or they cannot be moddable. It's not as important as the other mods and properties, and it may be even better to keep them inherent.