This PvE skill is horrendously underpowered.
It takes the goodness of two regular resurrection skills; Vengeance's +33% damage boost, coupled with the instant cast, AoE res of We Shall Return.
However, after 30s, everyone effected dies and must wait THIRTY seconds for a recharge and continue fighting. Hell, even Vengeance is maintainable, excluding the casting time. That makes this PvE skill WORSE than a regular res.
I propose, then, that a small buff be added to the existing skill:
1. Either lengthen time active to 60s, or lower recharge to 30s.
2. Add a 25% IMS.
3. Allow BuH! to be maintained without having to die by recasting.
At the moment you can only use this skill to grief others as the other monks try to res before you do and people hate that. You can chain it with Assassin's Promise, Echo or Air of Superiority, but it shouldn't need that.
PvE skill too underpowered. Sort it out.
By Ural's WTF-he spontaneously collapsed!
HigherMinion
S4br3t00th
It's mostly maintainable if 2 players carry it.
Also they got rid of (unfortunately not all) ridiculous PvE skills, no need to add some others back...
Also they got rid of (unfortunately not all) ridiculous PvE skills, no need to add some others back...
Ninja Dude
It's already borderline OP when two people are using it together, no
Horace Slughorn
why are you dying so much in pve that you would need to waste a pve slot on a rez
Slasher of Darkness
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Originally Posted by Horace Slughorn
why are you dying so much in pve that you would need to waste a pve slot on a rez
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HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Horace Slughorn
why are you dying so much in pve that you would need to waste a pve slot on a rez
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Xenomortis
I'd rather teams were set back by failure than made indifferent to it.
novawhiz
Its not like 33% more damage is that much. Its not worth bringing along ever. They were just trying to nerf it in a stealthy way. Instead of just reducing time, or +%dmg, they just changed skill completely.
Theres no point in them buffing it and they never will
Theres no point in them buffing it and they never will
Rites
i'd rather they just do away with all the PvE skills all together, but that is just an opinion
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
This PvE skill is horrendously underpowered.
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HigherMinion
I've always seen PvE skills as very powerful skills which cannot be used by heroes in order to give an incentive to building PUGs instead of playing with heroes/hench.
If they nerf all the PvE skills, THEN give us seven heroes... Embark Beach isn't going to do a thing.
If they nerf all the PvE skills, THEN give us seven heroes... Embark Beach isn't going to do a thing.
gremlin
PVE skills were I suspect created partly to test out new skills ideas for GW2 but mainly to get people to begin playing together again.
Sadly they came a little late in the day.
Full hero parties and embark beach are quite a good idea given the current state of the game they will give a new generation of players a lot of fun.
Fun which has been sadly lacking for a while, when it comes to human party play.
There are a lot of great players out there who a a heck of a lot of fun to play with but also there are a lot of people I would rather pull the plug than play with.
Besides few are playing the game any more most are just filling the hom well it seems like it.
Sadly they came a little late in the day.
Full hero parties and embark beach are quite a good idea given the current state of the game they will give a new generation of players a lot of fun.
Fun which has been sadly lacking for a while, when it comes to human party play.
There are a lot of great players out there who a a heck of a lot of fun to play with but also there are a lot of people I would rather pull the plug than play with.
Besides few are playing the game any more most are just filling the hom well it seems like it.
Cuilan
I like PvE skills that complement builds or professions like Finish Him to a Fevered Dreams mesmer and Save Yourselves to a melee, but then Finish Him is nearly a staple on Assassin Promise builds with SY on Imbagons. They obviously shouldn't be ridiculous, but then PvE skills or at least exclusive skills are valuable for players who prefer grouping with people over heroes.
By Ural's Hammer is a bit of an annoyance. Just makes for more resurrecting and is nonsense when you re-die right when you get to the next mob.
By Ural's Hammer is a bit of an annoyance. Just makes for more resurrecting and is nonsense when you re-die right when you get to the next mob.
FallenAngel_
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
I've always seen PvE skills as very powerful skills which cannot be used by heroes in order to give an incentive to building PUGs instead of playing with heroes/hench.
If they nerf all the PvE skills, THEN give us seven heroes... Embark Beach isn't going to do a thing. |
Life Bringing
Honestly if it were maintainable by a single person it would be used in most nonsinway speedclears for increased spike team damage.
Improvavel
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Originally Posted by gremlin
PVE skills were I suspect created partly to test out new skills ideas for GW2 but mainly to get people to begin playing together again.
Sadly they came a little late in the day. |
Since regular skills became stronger with the few last major updates (and now Anet splits skills for PvE/PvP), I think it is a good idea to reduce the power of some PvE only skills (or just remove them, but that wont happen).
If you look, Asuran scan, BuH and AoHM were skills that increased damage output by huge amounts - all got reworked.
I would even say that heroes should be given PvE-only skills alongside the 7 heroes update, but Xenomortis already told me he would attack me brutally (because the game would be too easy for him and his heroes) and so would all the "status quo" SC mobs/guilds that would lose their dominance over end chest of elite areas to players with 7 heroes - not very good for the ego.
Avalanche
I'm still waiting for a team of suicide necros + 1 or 2 monks with by ural to beat all the sc records xD
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Life Bringing
Honestly if it were maintainable by a single person it would be used in most nonsinway speedclears for increased spike team damage.
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WarcryOfTruth
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
It can be maintained, using AP or AoS on the recharge trigger. Quite possible in a 30s limit.
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Kunder
30s recharge would be horribly overpowered. Its already horribly overpowered actually, its just counterbalanced by the fact that you need 2 semi-coordinated (lol) human backliners with it.
And then SY rears its ugly head
Its definitely better lately though. There's only about 5 PvE skills that absolutely have to be on certain profession's bars.
Not just the spike damage, though thats the main sell, 100% energy recharge every 30 seconds is ridiculous. That lets you run so many more high energy builds, as long as you have a high energy set to dip into for ~10 seconds you will never run out.
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
No, this is how PvE skills should be. You should never be able to find a PvE skill that is necessarily stronger than any skill normally available to the professions.
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Its definitely better lately though. There's only about 5 PvE skills that absolutely have to be on certain profession's bars.
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Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth
Use Serpent's Quickness or Quickening Zephyr as well. DwG teams in DoA should adapt this as a nearly maintainable way to buff the spike damage =D
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WarcryOfTruth
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Originally Posted by Kunder
Its definitely better lately though. There's only about 5 PvE skills that absolutely have to be on certain profession's bars.
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Xenomortis
Pretty sure you need a heal (Orison) to complete "A Monk's Mission".
Essence Snow
For the most part I just find the skill annoying...hence y i'll nvr use it. I could care less what it does....having to re-rez allies every 30-60 secs or bring another rez...2rez's(really?) is plain out, down right annoying.
Wenspire
Not sure why no one likes this skill. I find it to be quite powerful when used correctly (NOT when the 1st person in your party dies off). Insta AoE rez at full health/en that cannot be stripped (like Vengeance) with 33% extra damage and no extra DP after dying again. Sure, cooldown is long but if people are dying off faster than this thing can recharge there is something wrong with your party setup.
I also find this better than running UA for groups that have more than one death per battle. But that's a whole 'nuther issue in itself...
Just my $0.02...
I also find this better than running UA for groups that have more than one death per battle. But that's a whole 'nuther issue in itself...
Just my $0.02...
Kelfer
Quote "PVE skills were I suspect created partly to test out new skills ideas for GW2 but mainly to get people to begin playing together again.
Sadly they came a little late in the day."
Agree w. 1st sentecnce They were almost certainly fore-runners for GW2
Disagree w. 2nd. They helped a lot in VQ of areas where foes had OP heal or damage. And that's seems to be what they are really meant for.
Classic example were the areas where you have to 4 man VQ, made that a whole lot easier. ((Won't go into cons here, that another thing)
Anyways Minion: heroes shud be carrying res, not you! It also seems like you have Rubbish healer. Spec better heal builds on heroes and it helps lots and lots.
BTW tip: Slavers & DoA are meant to be PuG's, but at a stretch you can H/H
Sadly they came a little late in the day."
Agree w. 1st sentecnce They were almost certainly fore-runners for GW2
Disagree w. 2nd. They helped a lot in VQ of areas where foes had OP heal or damage. And that's seems to be what they are really meant for.
Classic example were the areas where you have to 4 man VQ, made that a whole lot easier. ((Won't go into cons here, that another thing)
Anyways Minion: heroes shud be carrying res, not you! It also seems like you have Rubbish healer. Spec better heal builds on heroes and it helps lots and lots.
BTW tip: Slavers & DoA are meant to be PuG's, but at a stretch you can H/H
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Kelfer
Anyways Minion: heroes shud be carrying res, not you! It also seems like you have Rubbish healer. Spec better heal builds on heroes and it helps lots and lots. BTW tip: Slavers & DoA are meant to be PuG's, but at a stretch you can H/H |
I really don't know what they were trying to nerf with this one, removing buh and adding a new intensity which is worse than the old one.
BuH is not OP. It breaks no mechanics or rules, as such. Asuran Scan removes Death Penalty... ??? No competition; it also doesn't kill you mid-walk to next mob.
gremlin
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Originally Posted by Improvavel
PvE only skills and consumables were created because Anet refused to split skills in PvE/PvP only and any skills that were decent vs the stupidly "big status moronic AI" giant mobs introduced in the game since factions would most likely be overpowered for PvP.
Since regular skills became stronger with the few last major updates (and now Anet splits skills for PvE/PvP), I think it is a good idea to reduce the power of some PvE only skills (or just remove them, but that wont happen). If you look, Asuran scan, BuH and AoHM were skills that increased damage output by huge amounts - all got reworked. I would even say that heroes should be given PvE-only skills alongside the 7 heroes update, but Xenomortis already told me he would attack me brutally (because the game would be too easy for him and his heroes) and so would all the "status quo" SC mobs/guilds that would lose their dominance over end chest of elite areas to players with 7 heroes - not very good for the ego. |
Wouldn't mind pve skills being allowed on heroes after all no one is forced to use them.
To those who object to things because they make the game too easy I say then don't use them.
Kunder
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
I'm not talking about my own team personally, but this PvE skill and in a way, PvE skills in general. BuH is NOT overpowered. +33% damage is nothing in comparison to Asuran Scan's old description. Now that is changed, everyone finds BuH OP? It's one of the only options to realistically buff elementalists in your team without having to sacrifice a skill slot on THEIR bar (as they do with GoEP, Intensity, ELord, etc...)
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BUH: +33% damage, effects all players, needs a minimum of 2 people to use. Free recharge of energy/health every 30s, or quicker with more BUHs and deaths.
So yeah, its about as powerful as AS in damage/slots used if you are using it properly. Also, AS was nerfed for a reason. Its was overpowered.While BUH is now less powerful for solo AP nukers (the ONLY ones who could use it before due to the recharge I might add, gotta love PvE skills that only work with a single build), those builds were either powerful enough without BUH (MoP AP), or sucked anyway and need a buff to their class as a whole (any AP ele build).
Reformed
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Originally Posted by Kunder
While BUH is now less powerful for solo AP nukers (the ONLY ones who could use it before due to the recharge I might add, gotta love PvE skills that only work with a single build), those builds were either powerful enough without BUH (MoP AP), or sucked anyway and need a buff to their class as a whole (any AP ele build).
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2. Ask the SoS to go draw aggro and summon their spirits to the front
3. Wait for the spirits to take some damage and hit BUH on the way up
4. Maintainable 25% damage boost
/unsigned for change, don't really care about this skill. New BUH is garbage and the old BUH was the first thing I'd drop as an optional.
Taurean
Bah, slap on quickening zephyr and it's all set
Kunder
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Originally Posted by Reformed
1. Put BUH on all your melee
2. Ask the SoS to go draw aggro and summon their spirits to the front 3. Wait for the spirits to take some damage and hit BUH on the way up 4. Maintainable 25% damage boost /unsigned for change, don't really care about this skill. New BUH is garbage and the old BUH was the first thing I'd drop as an optional. |
2. ???
3. Profit.
Because essentially wasting an entire character + lots of time being silly totally doesn't hurt you more than 25% damage helps. If you are going to play around with that then what stops you from this:
1. Put BUH on two backliners.
2. Die once.
3. Maintainable 33% damage boost.
Xenomortis
If you're working with melee then the death more or less stops good use of Strength of Honor which is superior to the 33% damage boost.
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
If you're working with melee then the death more or less stops good use of Strength of Honor which is superior to the 33% damage boost.
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At the moment, if multiple people die at different times, your res is in a state and can only res one at a time, effectively. Thus making Vengeance superior.
You could cast shadowform before it finished and not have the health-loss; why shouldn't you be able to avoid the death penalty with this PvE skill?
Kaida the Heartless
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
Most of my old bars included BuH because there was nothing better. this is still the case for a MoP as things aren't alive long enough to see use of Trypt Signet.
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
Minion, stop being stupid.
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
You could cast shadowform before it finished and not have the health-loss; why shouldn't you be able to avoid the death penalty with this PvE skill?
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Reformed
@Kunder: We routinely ran 3-4 frontliners so if the spirits can't fuel BUH your pals up front can. Nobody was ever "wasting" themselves it just wasn't my first pick as an optional and I already said as much. This was a much smoother and faster process than it sounds to you, clearly. 2-3 hits from HM melee with their built in IAS takes seconds to get a spirit or two to 50% and that's all you needed for a near overlap under Essence.
Xeno's comment answers your second question. Rebond every 30s? No thanks.
Xeno's comment answers your second question. Rebond every 30s? No thanks.
HigherMinion
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Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
What and WHAT?! BuH because you can't find anything good to use... and you are using Tryp sig?! OMG I'M GONNA DIE. THIS IS IT.
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Kunder
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Originally Posted by Reformed
@Kunder: We routinely ran 3-4 frontliners so if the spirits can't fuel BUH your pals up front can. Nobody was ever "wasting" themselves it just wasn't my first pick as an optional and I already said as much. This was a much smoother and faster process than it sounds to you, clearly. 2-3 hits from HM melee with their built in IAS takes seconds to get a spirit or two to 50% and that's all you needed for a near overlap under Essence.
Xeno's comment answers your second question. Rebond every 30s? No thanks. |
If you are letting the spirits die on a spirit character you are wasting half of the point of bringing that character.
Yes, SoH doesn't work well with BUH. Does every single buff in the game need to be stackable on the same character at once? It works just fine with literally everything else you could buff someone with.
Kaida the Heartless
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Originally Posted by HigherMinion
Tryptophan Signet is one of the best synergy PvE skills to use for a MoP. It keeps things snared enough to rip the mob up with MoP before they kite. Why so omg die this'r it?
It didn't, there was no bug. Enchant or shout, it shouldn't be applicable to just one. |
2)Why shouldn't it be applicable to just one? Enchants have the disadvantage of being strippable, therefore, they should be better.
Reformed
@Kunder
This is pretty far off topic.
You wrote that only AP callers could maintain old BUH "due to the recharge" I know this is wrong and explained why which lead to this weird subject change. Though I did not like the skill when it was used correctly on a melee character it was easy to maintain. I guess we just have to agree to disagree?
By the way the new BUH handicap doesn't just apply to offensive bonding, it applies to defensive as well which is often more important...use your imagination here.
This is pretty far off topic.
You wrote that only AP callers could maintain old BUH "due to the recharge" I know this is wrong and explained why which lead to this weird subject change. Though I did not like the skill when it was used correctly on a melee character it was easy to maintain. I guess we just have to agree to disagree?
By the way the new BUH handicap doesn't just apply to offensive bonding, it applies to defensive as well which is often more important...use your imagination here.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Kunder
If you are letting the spirits die on a spirit character you are wasting half of the point of bringing that character.
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And half the point of that character is for the spirits to get hit.