Sustained high-ish DPS Assassin Build

ShadeSWG

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2011

I've thrown together this build that I've had a lot of fun with in PvE, not sure how it works in PvP though. It's a fair bit of sustained DPS that works pretty well and feels pretty easy to use.

Way of the Assassin (E)
Critical Eye
Critical Agility (PvE)
Way of Perfection
Golden Fox Strike
Wild Strike
Repeating Strike
Death Blossom

Critical Strikes 12+1+1
Dagger Mastery 12+1
Shadow Arts 3+1

Basically, the build gets your crit up to 61% (If my basic math is right), allowing you to spam Repeating Strike and keep your energy high with crits. If you happen to run into a string of bad luck without crits, you can usually just auto-attack for awhile to bring your energy up. If RS happens to miss, or you need a little more damage nonetheless, Death Blossom is a nice little attack. In PvP, you can substitute Critical Defenses pretty easily.

Any criticism would be appreciated >.>

saint666

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

LOL

A/

why spam RS when u can spam DB?

JS
FF
DB

or

DB
MS

Tyris Requiem

Tyris Requiem

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2009

UK

W/

Don't use repeating strike its terrible dps. The most powerful assassin builds use fast lead and offhands so they can spam out the more powerful dual attacks.

Jagged Strike, Fox Fangs, Death Blossom is a typical PvE spam chain.

Jagged and Fox Fangs both have 1/2 activation times allowing you to pull off more death blossoms and pump out damage faster overall.

In PvP due to increased recharges extra offhand/dual attacks are needed so u can keep spamming while they recharge.

Jagged, Fox Fangs + Wild Strike/Golden Fang, Death Blossom + Critical Strike would be typical of a PvP spam chain.

Sometimes golden fang is used as a single offhand on its own. If Fox Fangs is used u almost always see a second offhand for while its on recharge.

Xsiriss

Xsiriss

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

Nothing new. In PvP high dps chains are preferred and for pve you're better of spamming death blossom and using a better elite.

Evil Eye

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

P/Me

no it is actually pretty stupid since there is already critical agility

Zodiac Meteor

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

Hey, it's a wota sin build! Sadly, that build has been around for 2 years with more useful skills. (hint, repeating strike, no need)

Outerworld I see you there!

Anyways, it's on PvX, go check it out.

http://www.gwpvx.com/PvX_wiki

ruk1a

ruk1a

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

UR MOM LOL

ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES

A/

critical agility is terrible if it were a stance it would be worth a slot but i prefer wota. it doesn't get stripped every 4 seconds.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

You guys are overstimating the damage from critical hits.

Unbuffed, a critical dagger attack will do like what, 15 damage on a PvE HM monster? And a non crit hit will do around 7 or 8 orso.

Don't misread this as: "Critical hits are useless", just read it as: "+ Damage is far more important than critical hits. FAR MORE"

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

1. OP, your build is awful. Tyris Requiem (among many other people) summarizes why: Spamming Death Blossom is better.

1.5. In fact, the PvE dagger sin build is pretty much locked into one template:
JS+FF+DB+SY!+CritEye+some kind of IAS. Everything else is just going to be inferior.

2. Re WotA: I've expressed my opinion before, but I guess the slightly changed circumstances justify getting back into this:
2.1. Unless you're running Essence (and remember that the WotA sin was invented during RARE's UW runs that always had Essence) WotA is always going to be pretty bad IAS. It matters because you are forced to cancel the second auto out of JS->FF->DB->auto->auto->repeat or delay the next JS to complete the auto. Both hurt DPS significantly. So: If no Essence, run Crit Agility or Drunken Master + booze for IAS. You can skill run WotA on top of another IAS, but it's really questionable.
2.2. Moebius Strike is more DB and better DPS overall (enough so to justify the zealous daggers) unless you generally kill your targets on the first DB. (Back to those RARE UW runs -- things got to a point where everything was dying on the first DB.) Now that AScan and BuH are both gone, killing things on the first DB is going to be a lot harder to manage. More reason to bring back MS.
2.3. That leaves me thinking the best best all-purpose build right now is going to be JS+FF+DB+MS+SY!+CritEye+CritAgility+Some PvE skill. The real question is what PvE skill to fill in the blank with. (Club of a THousand Bears used to hold that position before people realized to stack AScan on top of SoH/Orders/GDW; maybe it should come back out?)

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

Club of a what? Brawling Headbutt is the skill there for KD. Or possibly battle standard honor to buff nearby damage.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

I tested spamming Repeating Strike against Autoattacking with Locust's Fury active.

Autoattacking won by a loong shot. That was without buffs.

[Nika]

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2010

Fissure Of Woe

Mage Is [SenT]

A/E

DB is 100% stronger, because the JDF-Combo is so fast spammable that you are faster with the whole Combo (+ Recharge) than with 1 time MS + Db.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by syphonus View Post
I remember talking about this and I thought the conclusion was that it would take multiple MS(3+) to catch up with WotA unless you're facing huge tightly-balled mobs. MS definitely got stronger since the last update but I haven't had time to compare the two-- it's been a long time since I've had to use a sin without AScan.
Check this old thread for calcs. MS pulls ahead as soon as monsters start needing a second DB to put them down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat View Post
Club of a what? Brawling Headbutt is the skill there for KD. Or possibly battle standard honor to buff nearby damage. If MS comes back, you can spam Co1kB thanks to the recharge effect on MS probably faster than you can charge 7adr for Brawling Headbutt. Dark Fury might change that equation though.

EBSoH is great as long as the battle stays inside it. Can't fault that pick.

Haggis of Doom

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2009

TGB

W/

I actually run out of energy on a standard daggerspam build (C Eye, JS FF DB, elite, ebsoh, ca, sy). Wota as elite pretty much allows me to use vamp daggers. Anyone having different experiences?

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

I'm for a speedboost/teleport/antiknockdown depending on the situation. Not much is going to increase your overall damage with this build, better off to simply minimize the time spent doing a big fat 0 damage because you aren't able to attack. Teleports in particular can let you instantly be inside those groups that auto-stack themselves for a few seconds, making them fall incredibly quick.

CoaTB might help a bit, but its only really helpful in that it gets enemies to the 50% threshold for MB to work, other then that its a wasted skill slot. This is really dependent on just how much damage the other 7 players are doing, but I can't see it being incredibly useful.

Carinae

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon View Post
1.5. In fact, the PvE dagger sin build is pretty much locked into one template:
JS+FF+DB+SY!+CritEye+some kind of IAS. Everything else is just going to be inferior.
This much has always been true and the AS nerf didn't change it. It won't change until there is (at least partial) parity in the cast time for lead and offhand attacks. JS+FF are crap skills besides the fast attack speed, and it makes them golden. So, unless we get more options (or less via a nerfing) we're all stuck with JS+FF.


Quote: Originally Posted by Chthon View Post 2.2. Moebius Strike is more DB and better DPS overall (enough so to justify the zealous daggers) unless you generally kill your targets on the first DB. (Back to those RARE UW runs -- things got to a point where everything was dying on the first DB.) Now that AScan and BuH are both gone, killing things on the first DB is going to be a lot harder to manage. More reason to bring back MS. I would concur. Moebius just got more attractive. However, it still isn't so strong that it's required...and that's great. It's a great general purpose elite. It's what you use by default everywhere, unless you know you absolutely need something else, and even if you do, you haven't screwed your attack chain by losing your elite.


Quote: Originally Posted by Chthon View Post 2.3. That leaves me thinking the best best all-purpose build right now is going to be JS+FF+DB+MS+SY!+CritEye+CritAgility+Some PvE skill. The real question is what PvE skill to fill in the blank with. (Club of a THousand Bears used to hold that position before people realized to stack AScan on top of SoH/Orders/GDW; maybe it should come back out?) Here's where I absolutely LOVE the nerf to Asura Scan. Previously, the sin bar was locked to the same three PvE skills: Critical Agility, Asura Scan and Save Yourself! Those were far and away the strongest PvE skills for a sin and you HAD to take them for that very reason. But now...

Now we have no clear option for a replacement and that's GREAT. Flexibility is good. Sin PvE-skills are in exactly the same situation as sin elites. The final PvE slot can be swapped safely now without killing the bar.

So the debate should really be about the default 3rd PvE skill, not the best 3rd PvE skill.

We have options: (yay)

Damage:
EBSOH (good for teams, but don't need more than 2 copies, expensive, slow)
IATS (basically its 160 damage for 5e)
Club-Bear (less damage, more KD)

All three options synergize with each other and with Orders, SoH and GDW.


Utility:
I Am Unstoppable! (nearly as much armor as CA plus KD and Cripple protection)
Drunken Master (as a replacement for Crit Agility, plus Unstoppable. I know not everyone has the alcohol to waste or the inclination, and without the alcohol DM is inferior to CA, but if you do, this is an excellent combination for a sin. Eliminates CA cast times, much less likely to be stripped, also affects movement, no KDs, no cripple, only 1 armor less than CA)

Sneak Attack (blind)
Technobabble (daze)

Pain Inverter (definitely not for general, but you can feel less guilty for running it on an sin-led H/H team vs tough bosses)

Asura Scan (anywhere there is Blind, I'm thinking the new AS is a lock on Shards of Orr bars for sins now)

Sunspear Res Sig (This isn't such a leap... none of the options stand out so strongly as to be required. A sig?, shrug, I could see that. God knows it would improve the average PUG sin ten-fold alone.)

Bad Company Sin

Bad Company Sin

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2010

Texas

Embrace Annihilation [?????????]

A/

JS+FF+DB+FH+SY+WOTA+Crit Eye+w/e the hell else you think youll need, then have a hero take S&H I've never cared for AS, foes die too fast as is. Atleast with strength and honor you have Perma +21 damage, unless it gets stripped and then well just recast it. Critical Agility I believe is not needed your dagger attacks activate faster than hell as is, the only good thing I see about Crit Agility is +armor, but thats what PS is for.

Avatar of Me

Avatar of Me

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/Me

I've never been a fan of Jagged Strike or Fox Fangs. The half-second activation time is great, but...I prefer to have an unblockable lead, along with Wild Strike for stance removal.

On the topic of DPS, add a monk hero with Strength of Honor and Judge's Insight, and spam Death Blossom.

I frequently hit damage numbers of 100+ on spell casters in HM using the above.

Beomagi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
I tested spamming Repeating Strike against Autoattacking with Locust's Fury active.

Autoattacking won by a loong shot. That was without buffs. Against low-med I won't doubt that.
With buffs there's no contest. I've c-spaced my way through most of factions using locusts with heros spamming buffs - soh, orders etc. Spammed adrenaline skills.

Now i guess it makes sense to utilize it to spam no cast time shouts and flash enchantments...