For all the people whining about players having an unfair advantage with mercenaries, or that adding more than 3 necro heroes making the game too easy, feel free to do the following with the free heroes you already have in the game:
3 x Discord heroes - 1 N/Rt healer, 1 MM, 1 Curses. I put Desecrate + Defile Enchantments on both the MM and Curses ones for super nukage. Make sure the curses has enfeebling blood, weaken armor, and mark of pain for your MM.
2 x Mesmers - 1 domination with panic / mistrust / empathy and whatever else you want (I put on a few interupts too, CoF, Power Return, Leech Sig), and 1 illusion with Ineptitude / Clumsiness / Wandering Eye / Sig of Clumsiness / Arcane Conundrum.
2 x Rits - 1 channeling / restoration with Painful Bond, SoS, Bloodsong, Splinter Weapon, Spirit Siphon, Mend Body and Soul, Spirit Light, and depending on what you are playing, the second Rit goes Communing with either Soul Twisting with Shelter, Union, Displacement, Pain, and Anguish (if you arent a healer or prot yourself), of if you're playing a healer / prot class, then take Signet of Ghostly might and more offensive spirits.
If you still think that the game isnt easy enough, and that it can get any more easier or broken than that by removing any of the mesmers or rits for necros by using mercenaries, you're pretty noob tbh.
I just downloaded paw-ned to put my build into templates, it doesnt have to be exactly the same as this, but I've tried to maximise damage in my setup since I play an E/Mo:
This works in just about every 8 man vanq area and most other places too. It ISNT a DOA / UW or Slavers build, and I'm not claiming that it is the best build, or ideal to run throughout 100% of the game.
I would like for someone to show me how a merc team can make the game any easier than a build that any 7 heroes can run. Give me the builds and I will load and test them for you.
Mercenaries / Full Necro heroes arent that great
bhavv
Another Felldspar
God, what idiocy.
The "whining" -- the complaint -- isn't that the game is too hard. It isn't about 8 necroes or rits or any other specific build. It's about offering something through the cash shop that players CAN'T GET from playing the game. It's about inequity based on a purchase. It's about lack of integrity from a game studio, it's about selling something that is not cosmetic even though that studio has promised their player base that the cash shop items will only have cosmetic value -- after saying that cash shop items would not effect game play.
This particular cash shop item affects game play. It isn't merely cosmetic. No matter how easy the game is or isn't there are profession combinations that aren't available to the player base unless they purchase from the shop.
Understand now?
The "whining" -- the complaint -- isn't that the game is too hard. It isn't about 8 necroes or rits or any other specific build. It's about offering something through the cash shop that players CAN'T GET from playing the game. It's about inequity based on a purchase. It's about lack of integrity from a game studio, it's about selling something that is not cosmetic even though that studio has promised their player base that the cash shop items will only have cosmetic value -- after saying that cash shop items would not effect game play.
This particular cash shop item affects game play. It isn't merely cosmetic. No matter how easy the game is or isn't there are profession combinations that aren't available to the player base unless they purchase from the shop.
Understand now?
tacotown
the people crying may have a point after the melee update, but as of now, i totally agree having more than 3 of the same profession is overkill. the mercenary stuff is great for vanity though, no? lots of glowy hands? =)
pingu666
its only been a day, wouldnt surprise me if we get some hax team builds which mostly arent possible without mercs turns up.
its deffinatly a advantage for characters going through the game for the first time, so you can have master of whispers alike character, before you get to him
its deffinatly a advantage for characters going through the game for the first time, so you can have master of whispers alike character, before you get to him
BrettM
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Originally Posted by Another Felldspar
Understand now?
How does it affect game play? Where has anyone proven that it isn't merely cosmetic? If I can get the same rewards (loot, XP, title points, or anything else offered by the game) at the same speed as someone with merc heroes, how does the player with merc heroes have an advantage over me?
The fact that someone with merc heroes has more combinations available does not prove that he has better combinations available. Nobody has yet shown a team using merc heroes that is demonstrably better at playing the game than any of the 3+ billion combinations of heroes that are available to me without merc heroes.
Your argument rests entirely on your unproven assertion that game play is affected. But this isn't true merely because some people think it might be true.
I already completed everything in Prophecies and Factions including vanqs, and had half of Nightfall done.
I stopped because it was too boring, and henchmen frustrated me too much. All I want to do is finish grinding for my HoM, I just want to finish of NF + EOTN, and the 7 heroes make it faster.
After you've been playing for over 5 years and completed everything but the title grind, you stop caring about difficulty because you've already done everything.
Most people simply want to speed clear everything these days and title grind, and the 7 heroes makes it incredibly faster.
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I stopped because it was too boring, and henchmen frustrated me too much. All I want to do is finish grinding for my HoM, I just want to finish of NF + EOTN, and the 7 heroes make it faster.
After you've been playing for over 5 years and completed everything but the title grind, you stop caring about difficulty because you've already done everything.
Most people simply want to speed clear everything these days and title grind, and the 7 heroes makes it incredibly faster.
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Originally Posted by Another Felldspar
It's about offering something through the cash shop that players CAN'T GET from playing the game.
You mean like costumes, makeovers, extra character slots and storage panels?
SpyderArachnid
Someone who bought the different special edition versions of this game gets access to:
-Max weapons any time -A Summoning Stone that adjusts to your level and has endless uses -Rare minis that they can sell for gold Let's not forget those that bought EotN and Nightfall have access to heroes as well. Or those that bought any expansion/campaign have access to different skills too and PvE skills. And the skill unlock packs for PvP as well that people can purchase. Let's not forget the bonus mission pack too that gives you max gold moddable weapons. Now how are Mercenary Heroes any different from all of the above? People paid extra cash to get all of those items too that give them a wider range of skills, heroes, weapons, extras, etc. Does that mean anyone that buys a campaign/expansion has an advantage as well? Should we all only be able to have Prophecies since every campaign gives you an "advantage"?
bhavv
I finished filling up my mercenary slots, I decided to add my PVP elly into the last slot because after the Necros, the Ellys are the ones I always find myself having to re rune constantly, so an extra elly hero will mean I can hopefully do away with having to change runes on them all the time, and also I can try out some crazy 5 elly builds.
Its merely a visual and convenience thing to me, having my leet armored PVE characters available as heroes, and a couple of extra necros and ellys so I dont have to keep on changing builds. Jeydra
Try doing DoA HM with that build.
PS: You're running Dissonance, Boon of Creation AND Spirit Light ...
Enchanted Krystal
bhavv
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
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Its a vanq build. I can easily change it to something else for DOA / UW / Slavers Exile.
It's not advantageous, just vain. IMO.
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PS: You're running Dissonance, Boon of Creation AND Spirit Light
Yes I know that, I only have one primary healer who can use a little backup. 12+1+3 Communing, 11+1 Spawning, 6+1 Restoration.
Xenomortis Jeydra
Vanquishing has always been incredibly easy even in the H/H era. I vanquished just about every area with a one-build-fits-all teambuild, only slotting in Frozen Soil where it mattered, so showing a build that makes vanquishing incredibly easy is essentially showing nothing.
I just cleared the cave in Ravenheart Gloom, HM, with 7 heroes (although I failed to clear the area, not being familiar with popups) ... and I'm sure the same build will clear all vanquishes. It might not clear other tough areas, but vanquishes like I said aren't difficult at all. That said, probably the only time when having a mercenary might matter is with Mesmers (can run PI + Panic + ESurge), who already aren't very strong in PvE in the first place, so it won't be much of an advantage. timbo_3101
Great job Jeydra re Gloom - always impressed with your H/H results.
Still haven't been able to replicate Forgewight HM in <30min haha Am in agreement that vanquishing, FoW, Duncan, ToPK ... these were all straightforward without consumables in HM with heroes and henchies. Perhaps the major impact will be whether it is possible to do UW (4h, SoG) or DoA, and whether we will see the demise of sc teams. Am presently still experimenting with a combination of spiritway-discord/panic/UA heroes ...
Essence Snow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Felldspar
God, what idiocy.
The "whining" -- the complaint -- isn't that the game is too hard. It isn't about 8 necroes or rits or any other specific build. It's about offering something through the cash shop that players CAN'T GET from playing the game. It's about inequity based on a purchase. It's about lack of integrity from a game studio, it's about selling something that is not cosmetic even though that studio has promised their player base that the cash shop items will only have cosmetic value -- after saying that cash shop items would not effect game play. This particular cash shop item affects game play. It isn't merely cosmetic. No matter how easy the game is or isn't there are profession combinations that aren't available to the player base unless they purchase from the shop. Understand now? I agreed with u 100% on this....Too many ppl take "advantage" as "easier", which is not what is wrong with this picture. I will agree that the summon stone in pre is unfair and should be removed. They (gerneric term..no one in particular) also imply that microtransaction=content transaction, which is not the case either. It is merely about gaining access to options via micro transactions (which is not the same as a content transaction) for something that others cannot have access to w/o paying for it. Plz plz plz stop saying its about 7 discords..idk where that came from, but it's not about that. DiogoSilva
The possibility to have an entire party of the same profession is so pointless, that I can't understand how it can be used as an argument to an otherwise excellent addition to the game.
Really, just because there are more party compositions with mercs? The game by itself already offers an absurd amount of different compositions, and all the ones that really matter don't need mercs with the exception of a full discord or full paragon party. Let people pay for that if they want, it's almost insignificant to other players in every point of view. There's nothing wrong with offerning new things through the shop as long as those are mostly cosmetic or don't give any power advantage. You can also buy the dungeon's pack to get more weapon skins, you can buy extra storage/ character slots for more storage, etc. So what? Any player without them about equal when it comes to power, and the mercs don't change anything.
Dzjudz
It's not really about 7 necros. For example, I'd rather take a third mesmer instead of the third necro we already have. Necro heroes are really pretty pitiful, you don't need more than two, a resto and a minion master/bomber. Curses is weak (on a hero) and so is non-minion Death Magic. Domination is much more powerful.
That is one example of how Mercs can make a better 7-hero team. There must be other options as well that improve on current combinations. DiogoSilva
That might be true in theory, but I wonder if more than two mesmers are needed without overlapping each other? A domination one (generally with panic) and an illusion one seems enough, IMO.
Dzjudz
I'm not arguing it is needed, I'm arguing that It would be better to have another mesmer instead of another necro.
What does another Necro add? Single target armor-ignoring damage with Discord? What does another Mesmer add? AoE armor-ignoring damage and enemy shutdown. Which would you like more? An example of 3 mesmers: Extreme enemy shutdown with armor-ignoring damage against both casters and physicals
Dzjudz
He's not saying Mercenaries should be tradeable...
He's saying you could pay to get Varesh / Kuuna (by buying CE Factions/Nightfall) but also buy one in-game from another player, and therefore not giving payers an advantage, but you can only get Mercs by paying, and therefore giving payers an advantage. CrustyEarl
Considering that GW is by far the BEST FREE to play MMO ever made, and still running... There is no room to complain. So what if there is an advantage(albeit very slight) you actually have to pay for. How many years have you been able to play this game, with very little out of pocket? Would you rather Pay $15 a month? I'm glad this game is even still being supported. The main thing is, that while you may get some advantage by paying, your not being disadvantaged by not paying.
BrettM
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Originally Posted by Dzjudz
but you can only get Mercs by paying, and therefore giving payers an advantage.
What advantage? People keep claiming that there is some advantage to mercs, but they never state exactly what advantage or offer any proof. Are you saying, for example, that a team with three mesmers is significantly better than any and every possible team you can build without mercs? How do you know?
If someone is going to claim an advantage for mercs, then they should build the team they claim is better than everything else, do something with that team (one of the harder vanquishes, for example) to set a benchmark, and then see if anyone else can come up with a non-merc team that matches or exceeds that benchmark. If nobody can match the merc team with a non-merc team, then the claim to a cash-shop advantage has been demonstrated. Otherwise, all such claims are simply theory crafting. People can bloviate all day long about this so-called advantage, but I'm from Missouri. Show me. Or stop repeating unfounded allegations as if they were proven fact.
WarcryOfTruth
It's not about having the builds being better or worse, it's about having the same choices in terms of game play. This is where the "problem" lies. The buyers have more variety to experience game play differently than those who do not pay. Whether it is easier/harder/funner or whatever other adjective could apply, they have more variety to experience the game.
Daesu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzjudz
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With the large amounts of in-game gold from selling Varesh/Kuuna he can easily hire players with pve skills to be his mercs and get his stuff done in the game. Also more gold to buy cons. How is this not gaining an advantage? This is even worse than merc heroes.
Personally, I consider the merc heroes advantage to be minimal at best. You can only have up to 7 hero slots per player, so having more necros just means you have fewer rits and mesmers. It is a trade-off.
Even though I have been playing with 6-heroes using 2 accounts long before this update, I still prefer my 2 necros, 2 rits, 1 mesmer, 1 monk heroes over having 6 necro heroes, any day.
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What I don't believe is debatable at all is that buying mercenary slots provides additional possibilities that are otherwise impossible.
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And I am saying because of this it IS giving the seller (a player) an in-game advantage. Through his out-game dollars, he is gaining in-game gold. How is this not giving real life rich players an advantage in the game?
With the large amounts of in-game gold from selling Varesh/Kuuna he can easily hire players with pve skills to be his mercs and get his stuff done in the game. Also more gold to buy cons. How is this not gaining an advantage? This is even worse than merc heroes.
What do you mean by "more variety to experience game play differently"? You bought costumes, I didn't so we are already experiencing game play differently. One can extend that and say, you bought GW:EN, he didn't, so you have one extra necro hero (+other heroes, powerful profession-independent pve skills, and more access to cons) than he does through using your real life money. By that same argument, one can say that is "more variety to experience game play differently" also, and even much more so. I think you're the only person conflating an expansion with a microtransaction here.
With the large amounts of in-game gold from selling Varesh/Kuuna he can easily hire players with pve skills to be his mercs and get his stuff done in the game. Also more gold to buy cons. How is this not gaining an advantage? This is even worse than merc heroes.
What do you mean by "more variety to experience game play differently"? You bought costumes, I didn't so we are already experiencing game play differently. One can extend that and say, you bought GW:EN, he didn't, so you have one extra necro hero (+other heroes, powerful profession-independent pve skills, and more access to cons) than he does through using your real life money. By that same argument, one can say that is "more variety to experience game play differently" also, and even much more so. I think you're the only person conflating an expansion with a microtransaction here.
Kirzath
How is the disadvantage to not buying mercenary heroes any different from not buying one of the campaigns?
This is the equivalent of complaining that people who bought EOTN have an unfair advantage because they get uber PVE skills while the others, who didn't want to make the investment, don't.
Sure, you're not getting a whole lot for your money compared to all the content a campaign would give you, but come on, EOTN came out in 2007 and you likely haven't given NCSoft a single cent since. Surely you can afford the 20$ for 3 vanity hero slots that will let you play the game at the same level as those who already purchased mercenary heroes.
This is the equivalent of complaining that people who bought EOTN have an unfair advantage because they get uber PVE skills while the others, who didn't want to make the investment, don't.
Sure, you're not getting a whole lot for your money compared to all the content a campaign would give you, but come on, EOTN came out in 2007 and you likely haven't given NCSoft a single cent since. Surely you can afford the 20$ for 3 vanity hero slots that will let you play the game at the same level as those who already purchased mercenary heroes.
Dzjudz
Well it's kind of a double edged sword isn't it?
If I say I haven't bought anything but the campaigns you'll say that "you played 5 years for free, surely you can spend €35 to support the game?"
If I say I have bought all Costumes etcetera, you'll say that "well you also spent a lot of money on costumes, why not spend a little more on this?"
To the first point: campaign/expansion =/= mercenaries
To the second point: I don't want to be forced to buy something to get the same gameplay abilities as someone else, especially at €35.
If I say I haven't bought anything but the campaigns you'll say that "you played 5 years for free, surely you can spend €35 to support the game?"
If I say I have bought all Costumes etcetera, you'll say that "well you also spent a lot of money on costumes, why not spend a little more on this?"
To the first point: campaign/expansion =/= mercenaries
To the second point: I don't want to be forced to buy something to get the same gameplay abilities as someone else, especially at €35.
Kirzath
summary of this thread:
QQ
Grow up, people. Mercenary heroes are toys, and they do not offer a tangible advantage over people who did not purchase them.
Grow up, people. Mercenary heroes are toys, and they do not offer a tangible advantage over people who did not purchase them.
Vallen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirzath
Grow up, people. Mercenary heroes are toys, and they do not offer a tangible advantage over people who did not purchase them. Are you actually seriously this stupid that you cant see how they do give an advantage? Sometimes I just cant help but feel that humanity is doomed.
They offer an advantage in the way of someone who bought them having the OPTION to run more single professions than I can having not bought them. Im not saying using 8 rangers or 7 necros or 3 mesmers or whatever is better than using 3 necros, 2 rits, 2 mesmers and an ER prot but its an option that I DON'T HAVE because I didn't buy it.
This imo is the only bad thing to come with this update and it really gives me a bad feeling about micro-transactions in GW2...